Catholic, but don't want to be.

prestigio1977

Hi, I'm new to this so bear with me.
I've kind of known for a while now that I don't fit in with the small village Catholic community that I live in because I don't believe in God and the catholic way. I married very young because I had a baby at 17 and I've always conformed to the way I was expected to behave just to please other people. My family are catholic, was made go to mass every Sunday but we never discussed religion. So I brought my 2 children up in the catholic way, small country school, communion, confirmation, the lot, even though I didn't bring them to mass every Sunday. My children are 15 and 17 now and I regret that I wasn't stronger in listening to my feelings early on. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is, I'm searching for something, I've been looking into Humanism a bit and it interests me. I'm also wondering, is there a process to break away from the Catholic church, or do you just do it?? Anyone in the same boat?

beerbuddy

Done to death .......... try and look at the other threads they have all the info you need

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

if you don't beleve in god then you don't believe in god
there's no forms you need to fill out or any membership fees
your life doesn't change at all except for a bit more free time on a sunday morning

Galvasean

beerbuddy wrote: »

Done to death .......... try and look at the other threads they have all the info you need

Ah don't be mean. She's new.

OP, there used to be a form you could fill in to leave the Church but they don't pay attention to them anymore. Instead you just stop attending their masses, don't identify yourself as a Catholic on census forms etc., stop giving them your money and stop listening to what they have to say. Just ignore them and they won't be part of your live anymore.

prestigio1977

Haha, thanks for your support there Galvasean.
I suppose the biggest problems that lay ahead are my family, for instance, when I told my mother lately that I bought a sympathy card for my neighbours who's father passed away a few months ago, she was shocked that I wouldn't pay money for a mass card to have mass said for him, but I just don't believe in that. She reckons I should have done that because it's what they would have wanted and that I had better buy one for her when she goes..... I love my mother but I think that this is the general attitude of the catholic church. I believe in freedom of choice in what you want to believe, or not as the case may be. As long as you are a good person and responsible in your actions, then what's the problem? I know that sounds very ideallistic but That's MY belief.

number10a

Back in the days when I was still just dobtful and hadn't made the final call saying I don't believe, it was the whole mass card thing that pushed me on that little bit further.

My mother wanted a mass card and sent me into this office on Washington Street in Cork with a counter like a bank or a post office, glass screens and all, and nuns behind it. A nun called "next". Up I went. Asked for a mass card for my grandmother. Nun writes my grandmother's name in a book. Nun says "€4.00 please". I hand her the money. Then she says "Hang on a second. Is this person living or dead?" I tell her my grandmother is living. "Oh right, it's €7.00 for a mass card for a living person." I ask for my fiver back and get one of those pre-signed mass cards in a newsagents for €1.60. How the hell does it cost extra to pray for a living person??? Not that I even believe that they ever pray for the people who mass cards are bought for. Apparently one mass card equals one whole mass. Me hole! And then in school we were taught that the sale of indulgences went out the window at the time of Martin Luther!! How wrong my history teacher (also a nun) was.

Like Galvasean says OP, just give up going. Don't listen to them. Identify yourself as not being religious if you ever need too - it's not like you need to make a loud declaration to the whole village from your rooftop. I made my decision just after the church stopped allowing people to excommunicate themselves, or whatever it's called. Don't really care though. Like they say themselves, a baptism is a historical fact and it cannot be undone. Just look to the future now. Pay them no heed and everything becomes a whole lot rosier. People ask me if I feel the whole thing is a bit bleak if there's nothing after death and I just tell them it makes you appreciate life a hell of a lot more.

Nervous Wreck

prestigio1977 wrote: »

Haha, thanks for your support there Galvasean.
I suppose the biggest problems that lay ahead are my family, for instance, when I told my mother lately that I bought a sympathy card for my neighbours who's father passed away a few months ago, she was shocked that I wouldn't pay money for a mass card to have mass said for him, but I just don't believe in that. She reckons I should have done that because it's what they would have wanted and that I had better buy one for her when she goes..... I love my mother but I think that this is the general attitude of the catholic church. I believe in freedom of choice in what you want to believe, or not as the case may be. As long as you are a good person and responsible in your actions, then what's the problem? I know that sounds very ideallistic but That's MY belief.

I don't mean to sound like a dick but people like your mother piss me off no end....

Your beliefs are your own. The best thing you can do, as Galvasean said, is ignore the stuff you don't want a part of and allow (encourage) your children that same freedom.

Galvasean

prestigio1977 wrote: »

Haha, thanks for your support there Galvasean.

number10a wrote: »

Like Galvasean says

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

The best thing you can do, as Galvasean said,

Galvasean knows best :cool:

lynski

prestigio1977 wrote: »

Haha, thanks for your support there Galvasean.
I suppose the biggest problems that lay ahead are my family, for instance, when I told my mother lately that I bought a sympathy card for my neighbours who's father passed away a few months ago, she was shocked that I wouldn't pay money for a mass card to have mass said for him, but I just don't believe in that. She reckons I should have done that because it's what they would have wanted and that I had better buy one for her when she goes..... I love my mother but I think that this is the general attitude of the catholic church. I believe in freedom of choice in what you want to believe, or not as the case may be. As long as you are a good person and responsible in your actions, then what's the problem? I know that sounds very ideallistic but That's MY belief.

HA I can take that one!
My Dad died last year and we only got around to the mass cards this month. We loved the sympathy cards, the personal messages of condolence and anecdote. The mass cards meant less then nothing to us as all these people just went and paid a few quid, no thought, no meaning.
I would not have sent one anyway, but I will never again send anything unless I have something to say to the family.
At one point we were calculating the amount of money one of the local priests and another church made from the funeral. So cynical, money for the mass (abysmal, you would think they would get a little performance training?), money hand over fist for more masses in the cards, money for months mind(actually no, a family friend did a lovely service in the house), money for the years anniversary (not us, we decided not to bother)
what a racket.

prestigio1977

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I don't mean to sound like a dick but people like your mother piss me off no end....

Your beliefs are your own. The best thing you can do, as Galvasean said, is ignore the stuff you don't want a part of and allow (encourage) your children that same freedom.

Yea, my mother has been known to piss a few people off in her time, but I love her all the same .But it's not just my mother that I'm afraid of being judged by...now I know that sounds weak, but all my life, I've been a people pleaser, which meant that I never really had to think for myself, which I NOW know has been to my detriment, so much so that my marriage is falling apart. I'm struggling with a lot of stuff in my life at the moment apart from religion, and I know I have the strength to get through it, but I also know that it won't happen overnight. I think this is just another step towards being true to myself and that's where I want to be.
number10a, thanks for your kind words, it really does help to know I'm not alone. I know what your saying about the afterlife question, and I like your answer to it.
I love life, I love people, I love nature. I try to appreciate every new day as it comes, be it rain or shine, I will just make the best of it and that's good enough for me .
Just watched the debate on frontline about secularism... very interesting and what a coincidence!

Galvasean

prestigio1977 wrote: »

the best of it and that's good enough for me .
Just watched the debate on frontline about secularism... very interesting and what a coincidence!

There's a thread on that show in this very forum (be warned though, it's chock full of in jokes)

looksee

lynski wrote: »

HA I can take that one!
My Dad died last year and we only got around to the mass cards this month. We loved the sympathy cards, the personal messages of condolence and anecdote. The mass cards meant less then nothing to us as all these people just went and paid a few quid, no thought, no meaning.
I would not have sent one anyway, but I will never again send anything unless I have something to say to the family.
At one point we were calculating the amount of money one of the local priests and another church made from the funeral. So cynical, money for the mass (abysmal, you would think they would get a little performance training?), money hand over fist for more masses in the cards, money for months mind(actually no, a family friend did a lovely service in the house), money for the years anniversary (not us, we decided not to bother)
what a racket.

I don't have anything to do with mass cards and anniversaries, but it was never my flavour even when I had religious inclinations, so it doesn't make a difference. However the suggestion is that the church shouldn't charge for various services, but in fairness, church buildings have to be maintained and heated and cleaned, and people paid. I know the church is wealthy but on a local scale, if you want to use a service, I think you should be prepared to make a contribution towards it.

A diy anniversary is lovely, but even for a completely secular burial or whatever there would be costs involved. I am personally of the 'chuck me on the compost heap' school of thought, except the neighbours would complain, and the cats would probably get sick eventually, so I suppose I will have to be cremated. Except there is no crematorium closer than Dublin so far as I know. I think someone in Wexford has started a non-religious burial ground, maybe that would be the way to go.

Sorry OP, I have gone off-topic, but you see the problems you are heaping on yourself by leaving the Church? Go for it, girl!:D

fisgon

prestigio1977 wrote: »

Hi, I'm new to this so bear with me.
I've kind of known for a while now that I don't fit in with the small village Catholic community that I live in because I don't believe in God and the catholic way. I married very young because I had a baby at 17 and I've always conformed to the way I was expected to behave just to please other people. My family are catholic, was made go to mass every Sunday but we never discussed religion. So I brought my 2 children up in the catholic way, small country school, communion, confirmation, the lot, even though I didn't bring them to mass every Sunday. My children are 15 and 17 now and I regret that I wasn't stronger in listening to my feelings early on. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is, I'm searching for something, I've been looking into Humanism a bit and it interests me. I'm also wondering, is there a process to break away from the Catholic church, or do you just do it?? Anyone in the same boat?

You may feel alone there in a small village, but in the wider community in this country you are in the majority if you don't attend mass. It may not be a consolation but more and more people think the way you do. They may not raise their heads in a small conservative community, but I guarantee you that you are not the only doubter in whatever village you live in. Honestly, in some sections of society it is hard to find a true believer at the current moment.

LordSutch

prestigio1977 wrote: »

Hi, I'm new to this so bear with me.
I've kind of known for a while now that I don't fit in with the small village Catholic community that I live in because I don't believe in God and the catholic way. I married very young because I had a baby at 17 and I've always conformed to the way I was expected to behave just to please other people. My family are catholic, was made go to mass every Sunday but we never discussed religion. So I brought my 2 children up in the catholic way, small country school, communion, confirmation, the lot, even though I didn't bring them to mass every Sunday. My children are 15 and 17 now and I regret that I wasn't stronger in listening to my feelings early on. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is, I'm searching for something, I've been looking into Humanism a bit and it interests me. I'm also wondering, is there a process to break away from the Catholic church, or do you just do it?? Anyone in the same boat?

Ever thought of trying another Christian Church? C.o.I comes to mind, a subtle difference with a strong Christian ethos with a different vibe, new faces too! Just a thought, and good luck to you in whatever you do, as long as you find peace within on your spiritual quest . . .

Galvasean

prestigio1977 wrote: »

I don't believe in God

LordSutch wrote: »

Ever thought of trying another Christian Church?

.....Really?

Solair

Careful now: The type of traditional, rural, Catholics in Ireland who find atheists a bit weird may react even more extremely to "Mammy, I've become a protestant".

freda on the hill

Solair wrote: »

Careful now: The type of traditional, rural, Catholics in Ireland who find atheists a bit weird may react even more extremely to "Mammy, I've become a protestant".

How about "Mammy, I've become a witch"?

Sorry, just following this thread on my lunch break, I've not done this before, it's very interesting. I gave up on the catholic religion years ago, it just wasn't for me. Hope the girl who posted the OP finds the answers she's looking for.

sbsquarepants

prestigio1977 wrote: »

As long as you are a good person and responsible in your actions, then what's the problem? I know that sounds very ideallistic but That's MY belief.

It would be a nice world alright if everyone thought like that, wouldn't it! Have the courage to think for yourself OP, you'll be thankfull in the end. Life is too short to conform, you are what you are, accept yourself and insist everyone else follows suit. It's quite liberating to realise you don't "need" to be anything except a decent human being.


Oh and welcome to the club, we're a friendly bunch us atheists. You'll soon recieve an email detailing when and where the next human sacrifice takes place, perhaps one of those kids you mentioned? Do be a sweetheart and bring a bottle:)

number10a wrote: »

Then she says "Hang on a second. Is this person living or dead?" I tell her my grandmother is living. "Oh right, it's €7.00 for a mass card for a living person." .

I can't be the only one picturing father Ted saying mass on the milk float can I?
Extra cos the old dear hasn't had the decency to kick the bucket yet? Charming in the extreme!!

prestigio1977

Galvasean wrote: »

.....Really?

Yeah Galvasean, that's what I thought too!

prestigio1977

looksee wrote: »

I don't have anything to do with mass cards and anniversaries, but it was never my flavour even when I had religious inclinations, so it doesn't make a difference. However the suggestion is that the church shouldn't charge for various services, but in fairness, church buildings have to be maintained and heated and cleaned, and people paid. I know the church is wealthy but on a local scale, if you want to use a service, I think you should be prepared to make a contribution towards it.

A diy anniversary is lovely, but even for a completely secular burial or whatever there would be costs involved. I am personally of the 'chuck me on the compost heap' school of thought, except the neighbours would complain, and the cats would probably get sick eventually, so I suppose I will have to be cremated. Except there is no crematorium closer than Dublin so far as I know. I think someone in Wexford has started a non-religious burial ground, maybe that would be the way to go.

Sorry OP, I have gone off-topic, but you see the problems you are heaping on yourself by leaving the Church? Go for it, girl!:D

I realise there will be difficulties.
My point about the mass cards was not the money side of it, it's that I don't believe in it and thought it would be a nice gesture to give a sympathy card and it had my own personal message, which I know the family appreciated.

prestigio1977

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It would be a nice world alright if everyone thought like that, wouldn't it! Have the courage to think for yourself OP, you'll be thankfull in the end. Life is too short to conform, you are what you are, accept yourself and insist everyone else follows suit. It's quite liberating to realise you don't "need" to be anything except a decent human being.


Oh and welcome to the club, we're a friendly bunch us atheists. You'll soon recieve an email detailing when and where the next human sacrifice takes place, perhaps one of those kids you mentioned? Do be a sweetheart and bring a bottle:)



I can't be the only one picturing father Ted saying mass on the milk float can I?
Extra cos the old dear hasn't had the decency to kick the bucket yet? Charming in the extreme!!

Thanks sb, looking forward to the human sacrifice thingy... what's your preference.. red or white?

Galvasean

prestigio1977 wrote: »

Thanks sb, looking forward to the human sacrifice thingy... what's your preference.. red or white?

Hey, we're cannibalistic atheists, not racists! :mad:

Beruthiel

prestigio1977 wrote: »

But it's not just my mother that I'm afraid of being judged by

Oh yes. The joys of living in a small place down the country. Where, if you do not follow the herd, they'll be talking about you for miles around.

prestigio, there comes a point in your life when you have to live it for yourself.
Living for others, or, for what others think of you, is a sad, miserable existence.
Once you stop giving a crap what everyone else thinks, you'll be a happy, stress free person.
You don't have to declare your atheism to the world, but if the subject comes up, be honest about it.

robindch

Beruthiel wrote: »

Living for others, or, for what others think of you, is a sad, miserable existence.

Or indeed, what you think others think of you...

Amen(*), sister.

(*) Intended ironically.

joseph brand

LordSutch wrote: »

Ever thought of trying another Christian Church? C.o.I comes to mind, a subtle difference with a strong Christian ethos with a different vibe, new faces too! Just a thought, and good luck to you in whatever you do, as long as you find peace within on your spiritual quest . . .

Sounds hip! Are they into 'free love' and stuff?

Galvasean

Beruthiel wrote: »

Once you stop giving a crap what everyone else thinks, you'll be a happy, stress free person.

prestigio1977

Galvasean wrote: »

Beruthiel wrote: »

Once you stop giving a crap what everyone else thinks, you'll be a happy, stress free person.

Looking forward to the stress free life:-) I appreciate all the comments and words of support. Ye're good people :-). my faith is in the goodness of human nature.

Amtmann

Galvasean wrote: »

OP, there used to be a form you could fill in to leave the Church but they don't pay attention to them anymore.

Galvasean does not know best. You can still defect from the church: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76582180&postcount=53

I did, little over a month ago.

darealtulip

LordSutch wrote: »

Ever thought of trying another Christian Church? C.o.I comes to mind, a subtle difference with a strong Christian ethos with a different vibe, new faces too! Just a thought, and good luck to you in whatever you do, as long as you find peace within on your spiritual quest . . .

As a friend of mine said; I am a Catholic but I don't believe in god.

I found that in Ireland believing in a god is not a requirement for being part of a religion.

Thanks LordSutch for pointing that out once again.

OP I lived in a small village and know exactly how hard it can be at times. People get used to it though and keep just telling them that non-religious people are the second largest group in Ireland.

I also found that more and more people came to me and told me they don't really believe either but they just don't want to rock the boat and keep going through the motions.

prestigio1977

Hi all,

Thought I'd give an update on this. It's taken me a while, but I'm getting there. I have left the Catholic Church behind me, in my mind anyway and I've moved on. My family and close friends know my views, and most of them are ok with it. Had a major row with my parents the week before my sister's wedding in March, but I think it finally cleared the air. My Mother reckon's I'm "lost" but I will find my way and my Father just doesn't understand it, but I'm just glad that they know now, whether they accept it or not. I feel like I don't need to pretend anymore, I can just be myself. I went to a talk on Humanism a few weeks back and found it very interesting and agreed with a lot of their views. I may or may not go again, but I know now that I'm happy with my choice. I'm still the same person I was before, the only difference is that I'm being true to myself

the culture of deference

prestigio1977 wrote: »

I realise there will be difficulties.
My point about the mass cards was not the money side of it, it's that I don't believe in it and thought it would be a nice gesture to give a sympathy card and it had my own personal message, which I know the family appreciated.

Well done Pres.

As for family ... don't worry. The more insane peoples beliefs are the harder it is for them to let them go.

Next time your family gets on to you bring up mass cards and the charge. Ask them why the think god would need money that humans invented, and why does he need more if the person is deceased.