Meath GAA discussion thread

HighKing33

Sully played wing-back during his first season under McEneany and looked at home there. He'd bring more attacking nous to that line. I know Burke is very good on breaking ball but still feel he's best given a man-marking role (maybe our best defender this season?)

Ciaran McConnell looked very at home in that position during the O'Byrne cup yet he's not considered for the league and is well capable of picking a pass.

The lack of long-range point taking is a real worry going into the summer, and it's not just the Ratoath players. It's naive thinking that the modern game is all about pace and running, you have to kick scores and against teams that crowd the D you have to be able to kick from outside the 40. Watching the semi-finals last weekend and that was very evident, particularly Donegal who kicked some magnificent scores from long-range.

dixiefly

HighKing33 wrote: »

Sully played wing-back during his first season under McEneany and looked at home there. He'd bring more attacking nous to that line. I know Burke is very good on breaking ball but still feel he's best given a man-marking role (maybe our best defender this season?)

Ciaran McConnell looked very at home in that position during the O'Byrne cup yet he's not considered for the league and is well capable of picking a pass.

The lack of long-range point taking is a real worry going into the summer, and it's not just the Ratoath players. It's naive thinking that the modern game is all about pace and running, you have to kick scores and against teams that crowd the D you have to be able to kick from outside the 40. Watching the semi-finals last weekend and that was very evident, particularly Donegal who kicked some magnificent scores from long-range.

And Monaghan gave an exhibition of point taking against us in Clones last year.

rpurfield

Jeez folks we've all been very quiet the last few days!! Pats were bet by Ballinlough last night, I didn't make it over but I'm fierce worried about our senior status this year, it's a tough group we're in. I would've been targetting that win last night really.

I see as well that the U21 final might be moved out of Navan due to safety concerns, it's only rumour at the moment, but it underlines the level of neglect that went on in the county during the glory days. Miles behind on and off the field because those at the top at the time thought it would last forever. I've every sympathy for the current incumbents because it's a thankless task now to try and make the ground up.

Finally Meath are Playing Down in Stamullen on the Sunday of the May Bank Holiday at three to officially open the facilities. All welcome as they say!!

Hammer Archer

Good wins for both Ballinlough and Kells. I'd say Ballinlough were targeting that game as well. It's a tough group but I'd see Duleek/Bellewstown as favourites to go down.
Hoping Ratoath can keep up the good form against Castletown tomorrow.

The Meath footballers and hurlers meet and greet is on in Tayto Park on Friday May 8th as well. Tayto Park are doing the usual free entry on the day.

Not surprised if the U21 final is moved. The stand in PT is a complete and utter joke at this stage. I'm fairly sure the seats are the same as they were in the 1960s. I find it funny that the grass banks were closed because of "safety concerns" yet the stand, which is a death trap when wet, remains open.

iDave

Overall an embarrassing episode for the county board.
Will the Wicklow match be moved also?

Hibbeler

If PT is suddenly in need of remedial work then why were people allowed to go to matches there all throughout the league. I was there when there was a huge crowd for the Cavan match, why was it safe then a few weeks ago and suddenly unsafe now? Or was it always unsafe and in need of remedial work without us knowing

Hammer Archer

Hibbeler wrote: »

If PT is suddenly in need of remedial work then why were people allowed to go to matches there all throughout the league. I was there when there was a huge crowd for the Cavan match, why was it safe then a few weeks ago and suddenly unsafe now? Or was it always unsafe and in need of remedial work without us knowing

Yeah, the more I think about it the more confused I get. Would there really be more people at the U21 final next weekend than there was at the Cavan game? Can't see many Tipperary people making the journey. If it's not safe enough for next Saturday, you'd have to wonder if it'll be ready for the Wicklow game.

Minor hurlers were embarrassingly beaten by 7-26 to 5 points against Laois in Trim yesterday.

Hibbeler

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Yeah, the more I think about it the more confused I get. Would there really be more people at the U21 final next weekend than there was at the Cavan game? Can't see many Tipperary people making the journey. If it's not safe enough for next Saturday, you'd have to wonder if it'll be ready for the Wicklow game.

Does anyone know what the remedial works for Pairc Tailteann actually are?? I'm assuming it must be on the stand but let's be honest the only remedial works that might work on that thing is to knock it down and start again

rpurfield

Fair point about the sudden need for it lads, there were decent crowds in it for Dublin in the O'Byrne cup, and Kildare and Cavan in the league, and the stand had filled up in them games so I don't know why it's a sudden issue. It's an absolute embarrassment, we could be off to Parnell on June 15th too.

Surely to God a few bob could be raised from somewhere to knock the stand and put in something similar to what's in O'Connor park. Could redo the railings on the terrace and leave the banks for a couple of years maybe. At that then it would easily be up to scratch for 99% of games.

iDave

Fergal Lynch tweeted earlier it was a issue with the floodlights so don't expect the stand to be knocked any time soon.

rpurfield

iDave wrote: »

Fergal Lynch tweeted earlier it was a issue with the floodlights so don't expect the stand to be knocked any time soon.

Yeah I seen that, the point still, ahem stands, about the stand though.

dixiefly

Has the general GAA mood in the county ever been so downbeat?


We are in danger of the county GAA teams becoming irrelevant in our county. Looking at Dublin yesterday, we have no chance of the Leinster if they even bring their b game with them. I hate being so downbeat but Leinster football at senior level has become a non event. I dont know the answer but I can see Dublin winning 8/10 of the next 10 Leinsters and by that time, I dont dare estimate how many supporters will be regulars.

Our best chance in Leinster this year is probably our minors.

Hammer Archer

I'm more excited about playing a Leinster game in Navan against Wicklow than I am about the prospect of a Leinster final against Dublin. That's pretty much how downbeat I am.

rpurfield

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I'm more excited about playing a Leinster game in Navan against Wicklow than I am about the prospect of a Leinster final against Dublin. That's pretty much how downbeat I am.

I get more enjoyment watching the young lads U7 team on a Saturday morning myself!! We're years behind sadly, something drastic needs doing to catch up.

iDave

I'd like either Louth or Westmeath to beat Wexford. Would like to play a local derby we can actually win.

Looking at the draw we're on the awkward B side so likely to play one of those Ulster teams we struggle with in Rd 4, possibly Armagh again.

Hibbeler

iDave wrote: »

I'd like either Louth or Westmeath to beat Wexford. Would like to play a local derby we can actually win.

Looking at the draw we're on the awkward B side so likely to play one of those Ulster teams we struggle with in Rd 4, possibly Armagh again.

I'd like to point out that we had a 100% record against Ulster teams in this years league it was the Connaught teams we couldn't handle :pac:.

I know we're being very negative on here of late but I don't see what we have to be negative about moreso than usual, especially when there hasn't been a single ball kicked in the championship as of late. Sure Dublin hammered Cork at the weekend but Donegal showed last season they can be beaten, what's changed?

This years aim has to be to reach the quarter finals be that by winning Leinster or by getting through round 4. Anything beyond that is a welcome bonus. This needs to be the minimum aim every year. Get the tactics and attitude right I believe we are capable of doing so.

Hammer Archer

One reason to be negative is that Gillespie is injured again.

HighKing33

rpurfield wrote: »

I get more enjoyment watching the young lads U7 team on a Saturday morning myself!! We're years behind sadly, something drastic needs doing to catch up.

Was chatting to a family member back from the big apple after the Cavan game and he made the point that Boylan won All-Irelands with weaker teams.

Whatever about the lack of underage success in recent years we have a good squad. There are plenty of potential All-Stars there, certainly more than grace the squads of Monaghan or Down to name just a few.

We don't produce enough top quality football coaches in this county. That's a big problem.

Huntergonzo

Hammer Archer wrote: »

One reason to be negative is that Gillespie is injured again.

Oh no, how badly injured is he? Will he make the championship?

iDave

I believe Rooney is back playing though?

clint_silver

HighKing33 wrote: »

Was chatting to a family member back from the big apple after the Cavan game and he made the point that Boylan won All-Irelands with weaker teams.

Whatever about the lack of underage success in recent years we have a good squad. There are plenty of potential All-Stars there, certainly more than grace the squads of Monaghan or Down to name just a few.

We don't produce enough top quality football coaches in this county. That's a big problem.

Or rather, the support isnt there, clubs not investing in full time/part time coaches or coach mentoring programs.

Most counties have whats called "Games promotion officers" which Id guess have a coaching element to them but inadequate for the purpose of controlling what goes on at each club at ground level which is vital for progress.

take an average u10s where a dad is taking the sessions. He doesnt stream them, doesnt involve other parents who are sitting back letting him take the session as its easier to do that, doesnt spot fix, 1 ball between 18 kids, more running than skills, concentrates on the stronger foot, plays large sided games, shouts at the kids that are messing because he doesnt understand they're quite simply bored. He's had those kids for last 4 years. those kids are now lost on a development track unless the club take that Dad out of his position or change him so he coaches better.
If they had a mentoring program, he'd have a qualified coach with him once a month assessing his sessions and the kids skills and he'd be attending monthly coach sessions with a requirement that to coach past u10s you have to have at least L1 and have to present monthly coaching track for your charges.

Ive heard some fellas say "we have a strong group this year", you dont hear the clubs who coach well saying that.

The clubs have to change with coaching steering groups.

Hammer Archer

iDave wrote: »

I believe Rooney is back playing though?

Yup he came on for Skryne at the weekend. No idea how badly injured Gillespie is. Didn't make the Summerhill team last weekend. Praying its only minor. You could see the improvement in midfield immediately when he came back.

Huntergonzo

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Yup he came on for Skryne at the weekend. No idea how badly injured Gillespie is. Didn't make the Summerhill team last weekend. Praying its only minor. You could see the improvement in midfield immediately when he came back.

Ye I think Gillespie is one of the better midfielders we've had since as far back as McDermott retired really, him and either Rooney or Flanagan would make a very nice centrefield for the championship.

Personally I prefer when O'Rourke blasts the ball down to them aswell, I feel while he's a good shot stopper, he tends to kick too many balls out over the side line when trying to pick someone out, he has a huge boot, better just to send it down field.

rpurfield

clint_silver wrote: »

Or rather, the support isnt there, clubs not investing in full time/part time coaches or coach mentoring programs.

Most counties have whats called "Games promotion officers" which Id guess have a coaching element to them but inadequate for the purpose of controlling what goes on at each club at ground level which is vital for progress.

take an average u10s where a dad is taking the sessions. He doesnt stream them, doesnt involve other parents who are sitting back letting him take the session as its easier to do that, doesnt spot fix, 1 ball between 18 kids, more running than skills, concentrates on the stronger foot, plays large sided games, shouts at the kids that are messing because he doesnt understand they're quite simply bored. He's had those kids for last 4 years. those kids are now lost on a development track unless the club take that Dad out of his position or change him so he coaches better.
If they had a mentoring program, he'd have a qualified coach with him once a month assessing his sessions and the kids skills and he'd be attending monthly coach sessions with a requirement that to coach past u10s you have to have at least L1 and have to present monthly coaching track for your charges.

Ive heard some fellas say "we have a strong group this year", you dont hear the clubs who coach well saying that.

The clubs have to change with coaching steering groups.

As far as I'm aware it's a directive from Croker that all team managers/mentors have to have the level 1 course completed. I know the three main coaches with my lads under 7's have it done, I think they said it equated to 14 hours of a course. Some of the techniques used are very good actually, but I'm getting off the point in talking about that.I'd agree that it's vital that all coaches are interested in doing the job first and foremost.

Obrieski

clint_silver wrote: »

Or rather, the support isnt there, clubs not investing in full time/part time coaches or coach mentoring programs.

Most counties have whats called "Games promotion officers" which Id guess have a coaching element to them but inadequate for the purpose of controlling what goes on at each club at ground level which is vital for progress.

take an average u10s where a dad is taking the sessions. He doesnt stream them, doesnt involve other parents who are sitting back letting him take the session as its easier to do that, doesnt spot fix, 1 ball between 18 kids, more running than skills, concentrates on the stronger foot, plays large sided games, shouts at the kids that are messing because he doesnt understand they're quite simply bored. He's had those kids for last 4 years. those kids are now lost on a development track unless the club take that Dad out of his position or change him so he coaches better.
If they had a mentoring program, he'd have a qualified coach with him once a month assessing his sessions and the kids skills and he'd be attending monthly coach sessions with a requirement that to coach past u10s you have to have at least L1 and have to present monthly coaching track for your charges.

Ive heard some fellas say "we have a strong group this year", you dont hear the clubs who coach well saying that.

The clubs have to change with coaching steering groups.

Hey clint,

any chance you will put your name forward for a role in the county board?! Your ideas and thoughts make perfect sense to me so I suppose if you did go forward you probably wouldn't be elected :pac:

In seriousness though, what you say is 100% correct. It's not the dad's faults in the majority of cases as most probably feel they have to do it but with proper "coaching of coaches" in place, it can only improve things further. Now I'm sure that all coaches need the level 1 training and stuff but it's the mindset of coaches that need to change. Winning titles at underage at club level is all well and good, but it shouldn't be to the detriment of the skillset of the players, and more importantly, the enjoyment that they get out of playing the game.

clint_silver

Obrieski wrote: »

Hey clint,

any chance you will put your name forward for a role in the county board?! Your ideas and thoughts make perfect sense to me so I suppose if you did go forward you probably wouldn't be elected :pac:

In seriousness though, what you say is 100% correct. It's not the dad's faults in the majority of cases as most probably feel they have to do it but with proper "coaching of coaches" in place, it can only improve things further. Now I'm sure that all coaches need the level 1 training and stuff but it's the mindset of coaches that need to change. Winning titles at underage at club level is all well and good, but it shouldn't be to the detriment of the skillset of the players, and more importantly, the enjoyment that they get out of playing the game.

Any GAA club who take themselves seriously should have had their 5 year strategy workshops done by now. One of the workshop elements was coaching in which the steering group for each club should be actively doing most of what I mentioned above. Its happening slowly though.

Its self propagating, even without the "produce quality players" argument, better coaches leads to better players, leads to less chance of kids dropping out in the 12-15 yr bracket due to self esteem caused by inferiority complexes or loss of interest due to being unable to compete.

Do all the maths on drop out rates, http://www.metrifit.com/blog/dropout-in-youth-sport/#.VUIJxCHBzRY 50% of kids drop out at 15!!!! girls are 6 times more likely (Ive done all the maths as I coach both), even more vital to keep thiem involved.


There are clubs doing it right, theyre the ones in division 1 and 2 every year from u12 up (u10s non competitive), you can see the league tables. They dont get a lucky cohort every year, they just coach properly to compete at that level. You could have a future all star in a div 4 or 5 club at u12, without coaching, theyre gone.

This is not to take away from the effort of those hundreds of us who turn out every week and give of their time, those of you who coach and who are genuinely interested in that side of it will know about 10000 hours to perfection and all that, But only hours of directed practice, not just any hours.

Watch all the youtube videos from the annual GAA conventions, read everything on the internet from Philip Kerr, ask for help from another parent whos just standing there, even to keep a match going whilst you pull a player to perfect their technique (the child will grow an inch cos you gave them 10 seconds 1 to 1), theyre waiting to be asked, ask the county board where the development squads are training for your age group, go and watch what theyre doing whether you have a player on or not. Ask another coach in your club to help you with a drill or 2. Dont ever stop.

Hibbeler

Clint Silver,

You make some great points I have to say I agree with the points you have made particularly in relation to better coaching reducing the dropout rate of teenagers but I feel it needs to be noted that it's a cultural/attitude issue as well.

I've seen it happen first hand as I stopped playing with the local team when I was 17, by which stage I felt like I was only there to make up the numbers as the coaches seemed to devote most of their time to the 4 or 5 'key' players.

I'm not here for a whinge or anything but I feel like at club level, particularly at underage the focus should be on participation and the fun of it rather than winning. What's the point in having a good U-15 side if none of those guys keep playing until they're on the senior or intermediate team or whatever.

In short as well as improving the coaching, the attitude and priorities at underage level need to be addressed too.

What can be done to improve the coaching standards at least is it a case of more courses or coming up with the money to pay for more full time guys?

Hibbeler

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Yup he came on for Skryne at the weekend. No idea how badly injured Gillespie is. Didn't make the Summerhill team last weekend. Praying its only minor. You could see the improvement in midfield immediately when he came back.

Assuming Gillespie is out injured. How are some of our other players doing?
How long is our injury list currently?

clint_silver

Hibbeler wrote: »

Clint Silver,

You make some great points I have to say I agree with the points you have made particularly in relation to better coaching reducing the dropout rate of teenagers but I feel it needs to be noted that it's a cultural/attitude issue as well.

I've seen it happen first hand as I stopped playing with the local team when I was 17, by which stage I felt like I was only there to make up the numbers as the coaches seemed to devote most of their time to the 4 or 5 'key' players.

I'm not here for a whinge or anything but I feel like at club level, particularly at underage the focus should be on participation and the fun of it rather than winning. What's the point in having a good U-15 side if none of those guys keep playing until they're on the senior or intermediate team or whatever.

In short as well as improving the coaching, the attitude and priorities at underage level need to be addressed too.

What can be done to improve the coaching standards at least is it a case of more courses or coming up with the money to pay for more full time guys?

your bang on hibbeler, Id say it really is out and out education, not just in "how to make better GAA players" but understanding of why children play sports, sports psychology, seeing sport from childrens eyes. It permeates every decision you make, not just in the technical skills but in team approach.

I attended a child care course last year and they preached participation and fairness, dont let the strongest player take all free kicks, don't have favorites as it exposes them to the risk of bullying on school playground through exclusion.

I had an u12s match 2 weeks ago, we met an hour beforehand, had been working on a particular drill for 2 weeks to improve handling, we talked about how we were going to incorporate that into the game, we then asked the players with that in mind what do we want to get out of todays game. we were hoping for something "better handling" or "cathcing the ball without dropping" . Every one of them said "we want to win" which flys in the face of the child care course.
So we then asked all the kids who should take free kicks, we think it should be the player thats fouled rather than player with longest kick. they all agreed. but what if its last minute and we need a score to win and its too far out except for that long kick player? they all agreed that player should take it. they made that decision. they let us know what they think is fair.
If any manager/mentor/coach is unsure of how to proceed on a situation, ask your players what they think is fair, they may surprise you. they can put up with being a sub, as long as they get equal game time as anyone else and it snot them next time. they can put up with not taking a free as long as they get the odd one. they can put up with playing in the backs, as long as they get a go up front where they'ed prefer to play. Its all about participation as you say.

They understand fairness. Now all we need is to get all the coaches to understand all that so the next all star doesnt take up a different sport at 15.

Clubs need to drive it. Has to be.

Jampip

HighKing33 wrote: »

Was chatting to a family member back from the big apple after the Cavan game and he made the point that Boylan won All-Irelands with weaker teams.

Whatever about the lack of underage success in recent years we have a good squad. There are plenty of potential All-Stars there, certainly more than grace the squads of Monaghan or Down to name just a few.

We don't produce enough top quality football coaches in this county. That's a big problem.

Whatever about Down, Monaghan have moved to a level way above Meath. Successive promotions have really aided their development, not to mention an Ulster win.

I think therein lies part of the problem with Meath football. Its not the 90s or early noughties lads. Times are changing and Meath haven't the footballers.

Like those above have said though, it's about hard work at underage level but when was even the last time Meath had any decent success? Given your population, Meath should be faring alot better than they are. You've 100k more people than my own county Cavan.