What could we miss out on by not baptising?

runawaybishop

I baptised my kid purely so he wouldn't be left out when the school was doing communion/confirmation etc. Shouldn't have bothered. I was imagining him sitting by himself in class as all his friends were off doing stuff in school time but the reality is there are a significant amount of kids in his class that aren't involved in any of the religious outings.

I would imagine that these days this is becoming more and more prevalent.

Apart from that, the muck they get taught about religion in school and the influence the church has, makes it really hard for me to bite my tongue, but that's just me I guess

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

robindch wrote: »

Around 98% are controlled by religious organizations -- 93% by the RCC, 5% by a range of protestant organizations and a smattering of minor ones, and around 2% by Educate Together who run their schools in an open, democratic manner with the full participation of parents.If you have no ET school close by, then you may have to do some religious kowtowing. It depends completely on the school, and on the board of management, principal, etc. Some schools are unashamedly sectarian and others couldn't care less -- you'll simply have to suck it and see. Or speak to parents who have kids in the various schools in your area and find out what they had to do. Bear in mind that picking a religion in order to be able to ensure that your child receives an education appears to be quite common.

That's great Robin thanks! Oh wouldn't even be a seconds thought if there was an Educate Together school nearby. Have heard only excellent things about those schools.

coffee_cake

MrPudding wrote: »

ONly baptised epople can get married now? :eek:

MrP

And even if that were the case, there is nothing stopping them deciding as adults to get baptised before the wedding. There is not some kind of limited time window on it

Dades

Hitchhiker's Guide to... wrote: »

/ Thanks for all the responses. Seems like the next step is really to contact the local schools and see what their policies are, as that's presumably going to be the key factor.

That seemed to me to be a first step.

Most schools have their enrolment policies on their website. Failing that, an (anonymous!) phone call should sort it out. Be warned though, as per Robin's post from earlier today - don't take anything for granted. Religious school boards may be espousing one policy and applying another.

The very best thing would be to try and talk with parents whose kids are in that school - ideally ones who aren't baptised. You should also find out how over-subscribed or not those schools are.

My take would be if the religious school you want is oversubscribed - find another school unless you're willing to splash the child.

pwurple

We were in the same boat, and after a review of the local schools went for the baptism. We will be teaching our children to be critical thinkers anyway, and let them make up their own minds in their own time, as we did.

The vows are very full on, but our thinking was that it's less of a fuss to do this now, rather than try to get a 7 year old baptised later if she wants to do communion with her pals. Plus, it really was a big deal to the older generation. I had no idea how much, as none of the cousins got baptised and they never batted an eyelid. But they told us it made a huge difference to them, and they hugely appreciated being able to go to the ceremony and welcome the baby. There was a 100 year old christening robe produced, and the same candle used as was used for 4 generations etc.

robindch

pwurple wrote: »

The vows are very full on

They're intended to be -- this is cult psychology, after all.

A few years back, down the country, I was at some religious knees up for a neice (must have been a confirmation) and the bish was up on the stage, doing his back and forth with the mike, hamming it up, really getting into the whole thing. Eventually he got around to addressing the kids, thusly:

Bish: And you're all here of your own free will?
Kids (en masse): YES!

Straight out of Monty Python and myself and my neice's dad creased ourselves.

pwurple wrote: »

But they told us it made a huge difference to them, and they hugely appreciated being able to go to the ceremony and welcome the baby. There was a 100 year old christening robe produced, and the same candle used as was used for 4 generations etc.

The robe + candle work just as well outside a church

Zamboni

pwurple wrote: »

We were in the same boat, and after a review of the local schools went for the baptism. We will be teaching our children to be critical thinkers anyway, and let them make up their own minds in their own time, as we did.

I am in the position right now and I am attempting to go the route of non baptism.
I don't judge you, you have to do what is right by your child.
But we need people like you to stand up and say 'no more'.
The more parents that don't baptise their children then the harder and harder it is for the educational authorities to ignore the call for change.

I would genuinely call on any non catholic parents to be to step up and fight the good fight.
Contact Educate Together, canvass your local politicians, fight the catholic first ethos in schools were it exists, join AI etc...
This will not change unless the demand is screamingly obvious and even then it will still be a tough fight.

DHennessy

the only thing i would be worried about missing out on is the money you get for your communion and confirmation

pwurple

Zamboni wrote: »

I am in the position right now and I am attempting to go the route of non baptism.
I don't judge you, you have to do what is right by your child.
But we need people like you to stand up and say 'no more'.

You have assumed I lay down and rolled over because it was the easier path. Not so. I'm well able to stand up for myself and my principles.

We chose this route after considerable thought. We are absolutely a la carte catholics, and not apologetic for it. Non believers, who partake wholeheartedly in the cultural aspects of catholicism because I think it's part of our identity and heritage. It's not something I would ever want to eliminate from our lives. I also appreciate that even though it is perhaps disingenuous of me, coming from a catholic upbringing has given me a particular perspective on irish literature, art, theater etc. What would ulysess mean to me if I didn't remember a bit of the mass? Would Fr Ted be even remotely funny if I hadn't been through a school run by nuns?

We enjoy celebrating Christmas with cribs and advent calendars, Easter with the eggs, pancake Tuesday.... and I do get consolation from funeral services when my loved ones have died. I feel I'm a hypocrite if I do all of those without giving our child some background and a frame of reference about WHY we do them. But I'm also a hypocrite if I do a baptism without believing in any god. It only needed a very slight tip on the scales to push us in either direction, and that tipping point was the schools.

And no, I doubt something with the history and meaning to those people of a century old christening robe and 4th generation baptism candle would have been produced for something outside the church.

hibride

All the schools in my area leave the non-baptized kids behind... They plainly ask in the enrollment form which is the child's religion, and to attach a copy of the baptism form or whatever is called, and when visiting the schools they plainly tell you that they give priority to Catholics/Protestants/whatever religion the School relates to. The rest of the children, even if they were enrolled before, go automatically the last of the list, meaning they can't probably get a place in the school. And we are talking about public schools, which is a shame. So yes, I baptized my little girl some weeks ago, after more than two years of deep thinking. It was a nice ceremony and I respect all religions. It didn't feel good to have to do it just to allow my little girl to have the same educational opportunities than baptized kids have. The Government should ensure that all citizens have the same rights, and in Ireland that's not true when it comes to education, I'm afraid

hibride

Zamboni wrote: »

I am in the position right now and I am attempting to go the route of non baptism.
I don't judge you, you have to do what is right by your child.
But we need people like you to stand up and say 'no more'.
The more parents that don't baptise their children then the harder and harder it is for the educational authorities to ignore the call for change.

I would genuinely call on any non catholic parents to be to step up and fight the good fight.
Contact Educate Together, canvass your local politicians, fight the catholic first ethos in schools were it exists, join AI etc...
This will not change unless the demand is screamingly obvious and even then it will still be a tough fight.

Zamboni, you are completely right. I wish I had the strength and the time to start the "fight". It was just too much. And I suppose they have a census of baptized children, which I have helped to enlarge; so apparently Ireland has a 90 something percent of Catholics (which of course it's not true), and they (whoever is they) can use it to say "who cares? Most of the population is Catholic. Enough you have 2% of Educate Together Schools"

gbee

Just a little note, a change seems to be happening at Confirmation, numbers are down, as much as 1/3rd in some schools ~ say 60 in three classes and 40 present at the church.

Whilst there are many reasons for this, simply not taking the sacrament is a now a recognised part.

Rabidlamb

Our local catholic primary school is about a 7-iron from my front door, for convenience it was the only choice.
We had no problem enrolling our little 4 year old devil worshiper.
When I told the lady at the desk he didn't have a baptismal cert she said "that's OK, you can just post it on".:rolleyes:
The principal was there at the time & overheard, he brought me aside to tell me that unofficial policy was that the oldest kids got in first.
The teachers would rather a more mature heathen kid than a uncontrollable pissy pants god botherer.

The principal asked us for our policy on religion class whether we wanted him excluded.
I listened to the nonsense for 13 years & it had no affect on me, I wanted him to sit in on it, as a parent I will set him right.
Soon I must plan "Free Money for my 7 year old BBQ celebration", hope the weather's good.

Helix

I am a friend wrote: »

A religion is not there for your benefit and you certainly shouldnt be baptising your child and using the sacrement of baptism to get them into a school.:mad:

it's about the only reasonable use for religion to be fair

RichieC

Helix wrote: »

it's about the only reasonable use for religion to be fair

And it's not even reasonable..

kylith

I'd get some kick out of getting my child baptised.

Priest: Do you reject Satan?
Me: No
P: And all his works?
M: No
P: And all his empty promises?
M: Nope.
P: ????
M: Hey, the school is making me do this, just sign the paper already.

I wonder what they'd do...

ShooterSF

kylith wrote: »

I'd get some kick out of getting my child baptised.

Priest: Do you reject Satan?
Me: No
P: And all his works?
M: No
P: And all his empty promises?
M: Nope.
P: ????
M: Hey, the school is making me do this, just sign the paper already.

I wonder what they'd do...

You could always name your child Satan and go for a "who's on first" style comical confusion skit...

"Do you reject Satan?"
"Of course not, he's my child"
"No not your child, Satan"
"I only have one child"

etc...