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What does it take to be...

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    #62
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,443 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Doh! Yea. :o


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    #63
    Beery Eyed
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭Beery Eyed


    Over the past few years 13 has become the most interesting position to fulfill all of the "requirements" at the top level, in my opinion. The presence of BOD in this country has also made it a near impossible role to follow up in a Leinster or Irish jersey.

    The list of requirements now seems to include that the player must:
    • Be fast enough to make an outside break
    • Have quick feet to create space in tight play
    • Be strong enough to bash up the ball & tackle increasingly huge opposition centres
    • Have great hands
    • Be an excellent reader of the game in attack & defence
    • Be an infallible defender both on the inside & outside shoulder

    It has become probably the most difficult & exposed position on the park to fulfill to a high standard. Conrad Smith spoke about it in an article a while back, basically saying that the expectations which people put on young 13's is making it very difficult to find new options there at the top level.


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    #64
    Swiwi.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    stephen_n wrote: »
    I think this has something to do with the speed of the ball through hands left to right, left wingers will get passed to more often, as in when a backline move is going left (most players are right handed) it moves quicker, therefore more chance of space for a smaller faster winger to attack. Right wings are bigger and stronger as it suits crossfield kicks and better for bursting through tackles when needed. Though these issues have lessened with professionalism, the ability to pass to both sides with similar speed an accuracy has improved and there are less and less small wingers about.

    It all sounds good in theory stephen, but then Lomu & Savea are left wingers, and Jane is a right winger.

    I'm not really sure at all that it's preordained that left wingers are small, and right wingers are big.

    I know Hansen commented that Jane found it hard jumping off the other foot when he had his misfiring run at left wing recently.


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    #65
    Morf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    Swiwi. wrote: »
    It all sounds good in theory stephen, but then Lomu & Savea are left wingers, and Jane is a right winger.

    I'm not really sure at all that it's preordained that left wingers are small, and right wingers are big.

    I know Hansen commented that Jane found it hard jumping off the other foot when he had his misfiring run at left wing recently.

    Jane is a converted FB to right wing. It's not that right wing has always been his preferred position.

    It will depend on skill set. Jane's big left-arm fend must have a relation to him being played at 14 for NZ.


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    #66
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Swiwi. wrote: »
    It all sounds good in theory stephen, but then Lomu & Savea are left wingers, and Jane is a right winger.

    I'm not really sure at all that it's preordained that left wingers are small, and right wingers are big.

    I know Hansen commented that Jane found it hard jumping off the other foot when he had his misfiring run at left wing recently.

    Savea is the new generation though, same way North and Cuthbert are massive wingers, Lomu was a freak though :pac: for his generation, it seems now that size has less and less a determining factor in where you play in general. Think the time of nippy little wingers has probably passed which ever side they play on.


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    #67
    flim_flam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭flim_flam


    Cuthbert doesn't seem to have any characteristics that would suit him to either wing imo, I'm of the opinion he's actually quite a poor player. He gets turned inside out by any sort of clever backs, his positioning is all over the shop, he's not very skillful.

    He is very hard to stop when he gets a head of steam up though obviously.


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    #68
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,016 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    flim_flam wrote: »
    Cuthbert doesn't seem to have any characteristics that would suit him to either wing imo, I'm of the opinion he's actually quite a poor player. He gets turned inside out by any sort of clever backs, his positioning is all over the shop, he's not very skillful.

    He is very hard to stop when he gets a head of steam up though obviously.

    I'll just translate that for Mr. Gatland:
    waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle

    He is very hard to stop when he gets a head of steam up.


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    #69
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    flim_flam wrote: »
    Cuthbert doesn't seem to have any characteristics that would suit him to either wing imo, I'm of the opinion he's actually quite a poor player. He gets turned inside out by any sort of clever backs, his positioning is all over the shop, he's not very skillful.

    He is very hard to stop when he gets a head of steam up though obviously.

    I'd agree to a large degree but he seems to be the new template for backs in the modern game.


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    #70
    Morf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    stephen_n wrote: »
    I'd agree to a large degree but he seems to be the new template for backs in the modern game.

    Big and does well in 7s?


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    #71
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Morf wrote: »
    Big and does well in 7s?

    Just think that soon it will be very rare to see any players under 6ft on a professional team apart from maybe scrum halves.


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    #72
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,016 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Just think that soon it will be very rare to see any players under 6ft on a professional team apart from maybe scrum halves.

    Wings and FBs may need more height as the kick chase becomes more popular, but I reckon centres and pivots could still be under 6ft. Even gattyball midfielders only require bulk and maybe top speed.

    A team of optimus primes would probably lose to a team of manny pacquaios.


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    #73
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Wings and FBs may need more height as the kick chase becomes more popular, but I reckon centres and pivots could still be under 6ft. Even gattyball midfielders only require bulk and maybe top speed.

    A team of optimus primes would probably lose to a team of manny pacquaios.

    It's more to do with defense than attack, the way the big bosh up centers are causing defensive problems for smaller centers, may dictate needing bigger players to defend against them, look how much BOD struggled with it this year, despite being a great defender. I suppose the likes of Fofana show that it's not an absolute but just seems to be heading that way more and more.


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    #74
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,016 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    stephen_n wrote: »
    It's more to do with defense than attack, the way the big bosh up centers are causing defensive problems for smaller centers, may dictate needing bigger players to defend against them, look how much BOD struggled with it this year, despite being a great defender. I suppose the likes of Fofana show that it's not an absolute but just seems to be heading that way more and more.

    I see what you're saying. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though. It would be sad indeed if the game degenerated to a scenario where each match sees a tight five and ten blindside flankers take the field to re-enact scenes from a Michael Bay movie.

    Perhaps a romantic delusion, but I would hope that good footballers will always have a place on the pitch, irrespective of their height. BOD really only had noticeable issues with Basteraud that I can recall (he had been missing more tackles over the previous season and a bit, to be fair).


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    #75
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    I see what you're saying. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though. It would be sad indeed if the game degenerated to a scenario where each match sees a tight five and ten blindside flankers take the field to re-enact scenes from a Michael Bay movie.

    Perhaps a romantic delusion, but I would hope that good footballers will always have a place on the pitch, irrespective of their height. BOD really only had noticeable issues with Basteraud that I can recall (he had been missing more tackles over the previous season and a bit, to be fair).

    I hope so too, I suppose like Fofana the players with the ability will rise to the top, regardless of size. Having said that just because you're 6'2 doesn't mean you can't be skillful and have great guile and speed, time will tell.


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