Blonde bull for heifers?

redzerologhlen

Well lads and ladies. Been thinking about ordering a few blonde straws for the bulling heifers this year. All the heifers are limousion cross and I would like to get a bit more length and growth into them. Can't go on the ai websites cause my laptop packed up and I'm using my phone but from what I remember of looking at them they are rated average enough for calving. From what I heard from people who used them they are supposed to be easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

Bizzum

redzerologhlen wrote: »

easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

APX from Dovea
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?

blue5000

Redzer I'd be slow to use a blonde on heifers. I have a blonde bull, he's a son of oynx(dovea bull oxy I think), angus cows so far all calving by themselves to him, but tried a few fr cows with him and so far it's no fun. Only 1 in 4 calving unassisted. Yeah I know there is variation within breeds and all that. A dead calf isn't worth anything.

redzerologhlen

Bizzum wrote: »

redzerologhlen wrote: »

easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

APX from Dovea
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?

I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?

redzerologhlen

blue5000 wrote: »

Redzer I'd be slow to use a blonde on heifers. I have a blonde bull, he's a son of intox (dovea bull oxy I think), angus cows so far all calving by themselves to him, but tried a few fr cows with him and so far it's no fun. Only 1 in 4 calving unassisted. Yeah I know there is variation within breeds and all that. A dead calf isn't worth anything.

That's been drilled into me since I was a young lad blue, to quote the auld lad sure anything that lives will make money sometime :rolleyes: Still though we have had a few fair jacks with the lim and if I thought the blondes wouldn't be any worse I'd chance them. No better place to find out about them then here anyway rather than be reading the guff in the ai catalogues!!

blue5000

I think the big problem with blondes is how many days over time they go, combine that with limo and you could get a bull calf going 3 wks over. Hard to advise you though, how big/ old are the heifers? Last yr I used aubrac on all my heifers, (must put a picture up), only one calf so far, calved herself.

Bizzum

redzerologhlen wrote: »

I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?ani_id=931423521

Tyson is 5* for calving alright.

I've used easy calving BA on Ped Ch heifers and find them light boned and easily calved. I'd have no problem using them again!

Did ya see the Dovea Video of Kilmoney Bruce? He really looks the job!

Bizzum

blue5000 wrote: »

I think the big problem with blondes is how many days over time they go.

Some of our BA cows know how to hang onto a calf alright. Regular enough for them to go to 300 days. As I said though, we never had problems calving them. Landais was the bull we used a lot but he's gone now.

Bodacious

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Bizzum wrote: »

redzerologhlen wrote: »

easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

APX from Dovea
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?

I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?

Hi Red,

I'd be thinking the same with alot of lim in the heifers but Blue is so right about the long gestation of the blonde combined with the 3/4 lim heifer you could be asking for bother.

If you insist on blonde I'd have that lochhead Tyson from munster/progressive before Bruce on calving difficulty alone.

I'd also look at Saler LZR not the easiest calved saler but a big bull with good figures and I definitely going using APZ the new simmental with munster/progressive ..v easy calved

redzerologhlen

blue5000 wrote: »

I think the big problem with blondes is how many days over time they go, combine that with limo and you could get a bull calf going 3 wks over. Hard to advise you though, how big/ old are the heifers? Last yr I used aubrac on all my heifers, (must put a picture up), only one calf so far, calved herself.

I have 5 2 year old's that i should have bulled already and probably another 7 or 8 that should be strong enough and will be 16 months mid June, heifers themselves wouldn't be over muscled apart from 2 of them and I have a few pam straws for them.

Bizzum

Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb

teddd

Kilmoney bruce looks a smashing bull. Would be more inclined in sticking to easy calved limosuin or angus bull for heifers however

redzerologhlen

Bodacious wrote: »

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Bizzum wrote: »

redzerologhlen wrote: »

easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

APX from Dovea
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?

I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?

Hi Red,

I'd be thinking the same with alot of lim in the heifers but Blue is so right about the long gestation of the blonde combined with the 3/4 lim heifer you could be asking for bother.

If you insist on blonde I'd have that lochhead Tyson from munster/progressive before Bruce on calving difficulty alone.

I'd also look at Saler LZR not the easiest calved saler but a big bull with good figures and I definitely going using APZ the new simmental with munster/progressive ..v easy calved

Most of the heifers are out of sim cows already so should be ok on the maternal front. Apostle is a serious looking bull though. If I was going salers I'd go for bhu because I know the man that bred him and was often in his yard and he has serious big blocks of cows. Not really the direction I want to head in though, either lim or blonde I think but I would prefer not to put a lim back on them again.

blue5000

Bizzum wrote: »

Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb

You beat me to it Bizzum, looks like he'd be good for producing replacement heifers, but his carcase figures aren't great. Anybody on here used him?

Poor Farmer in the hills

also have 10 limousin x heifers for bulling. Was thinking blonde or part. any comments on part for heifers from 16 to 24 months old.

Bodacious

Bizzum wrote: »

Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb

when you look at bolide's linear assessment he very small heightwise, short in the back, narrow at hips etc, I used sirex although only marginally taller ( he not a giant tall either ) his SbV and all round figures seem better. Do many lads look at the linear/skeletal assessment of the sire?

redzerologhlen

blue5000 wrote: »

Bizzum wrote: »

Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb

You beat me to it Bizzum, looks like he'd be good for producing replacement heifers, but his carcase figures aren't great. Anybody on here used him?

The main reason I was thinking blonde is because of the length and scope that they bring, how would the parts compare to them on that front. They look to be more heavily muscled than the blondes alright...

pakalasa

With heifers go with the easiest calving bull, with high reliability, you can get your hands on. Most of them in Ai will produce a decent enough calve anyway. Leave the fancy weanlings till the second year. Even if you only loose one calve it will cancel out the extra profit on the others.
Seems like a good idea now, but when you're sweating on the end of a calving jack in 9 months time, you'll be kicking yourself.

vanderbadger

redzerologhlen wrote: »

The main reason I was thinking blonde is because of the length and scope that they bring, how would the parts compare to them on that front. They look to be more heavily muscled than the blondes alright...

blondes are lovely looking cattle redzer, id say they would be a nice cross with limo heifers, would love to buy a few blonde heifers in myself at some stage but its rare enough you see them down our way isnt it, part is also a nice cross with red limo

redzerologhlen

vanderbadger wrote: »

redzerologhlen wrote: »

The main reason I was thinking blonde is because of the length and scope that they bring, how would the parts compare to them on that front. They look to be more heavily muscled than the blondes alright...

blondes are lovely looking cattle redzer, id say they would be a nice cross with limo heifers, would love to buy a few blonde heifers in myself at some stage but its rare enough you see them down our way isnt it, part is also a nice cross with red limo

As rare as hens teeth you'd say vander

redzerologhlen

pakalasa wrote: »

With heifers go with the easiest calving bull, with high reliability, you can get your hands on. Most of them in Ai will produce a decent enough calve anyway. Leave the fancy weanlings till the second year. Even if you only loose one calve it will cancel out the extra profit on the others.
Seems like a good idea now, but when you're sweating on the end of a calving jack in 9 months time, you'll be kicking yourself.

Im not looking to put a hard calver on them at all but like I said don't want to put a limo on them again. If the blondes were about the same as them calving wise I would prefer to use them.

pakalasa

Fair enough. It's just that I haven't seen that many very easy calving blonde bulls in AI.

redzerologhlen

pakalasa wrote: »

Fair enough. It's just that I haven't seen that many very easy calving blonde bulls in AI.

I have no experience of them either to be honest but they are meant to put great length into cattle which is what I like the most about them. I'll be gone at silage when the cows are bulling so I can't really ai them which would probably be the best thing to do. Just as a matter of interest at what calving difficulty percentage would you reckon that a bull is too hard calving for heifers?

pakalasa

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest at what calving difficulty percentage would you reckon that a bull is too hard calving for heifers?

I would generally look for a bull under 5%. A nice round figure.

just do it

Bodacious wrote: »

definitely going using APZ the new simmental with munster/progressive ..v easy calved

Hi Bod

Are you getting that easy calving from the icbf figures or from knowledge/ experience? I've straws for him that I'm interested in using on heifers...

Bodacious

just do it wrote: »

Hi Bod

Are you getting that easy calving from the icbf figures or from knowledge/ experience? I've straws for him that I'm interested in using on heifers...

Only from munster catalogue and icbf dec2011 figures.. no experience of him personally

Richk2012

I bought 15 straws of Kilmoney Bruce (KCE) last year at 8Eur each from Dovea . There gone up to 10Eur now . Inseminated 4 belgian blue cows to him , no heifers . All 3rd + calvers as i thought there might be a bit of difficulty with him , considering hes a fairly shapey boy . First cow calved in october , very small bull calf . The 2nd cow had a small heifer calf 2 weeks later . Third one calved twins prematurely (disaster) :mad: , and i still have one to calf next week . All the calves came chocolate brown and white . Any heifer would have calved these 2 calves , and to tell you the truth i was a little bit dissapointed with the quality of them as drop calves , but they have come on well and are starting to shape up with age and meal , although i have a couple of Rocky Limousin (ROX) calves the same age , and out of similar blue cows and their in a different league .

redzerologhlen

Richk2012 wrote: »

I bought 15 straws of Kilmoney Bruce (KCE) last year at 8Eur each from Dovea . There gone up to 10Eur now . Inseminated 4 belgian blue cows to him , no heifers . All 3rd + calvers as i thought there might be a bit of difficulty with him , considering hes a fairly shapey boy . First cow calved in october , very small bull calf . The 2nd cow had a small heifer calf 2 weeks later . Third one calved twins prematurely (disaster) :mad: , and i still have one to calf next week . All the calves came chocolate brown and white . Any heifer would have calved these 2 calves , and to tell you the truth i was a little bit dissapointed with the quality of them as drop calves , but they have come on well and are starting to shape up with age and meal , although i have a couple of Rocky Limousin (ROX) calves the same age , and out of similar blue cows and their in a different league .

I have a good few rockys in the pot and had about ten calves by him and wouldnt say hes hard calving at all. Found the calves lacked growth though. Reason I was thinking blonde was for the bit of scope. Nice to hear he is not hard calved though especially with blue cows. It seems to be hard to get a bit of thickness in a blonde but I checked up Kilmoney bruce on icbf and he did fairly well on the linear scoring.

1chippy

I was going to use lochhead tyson on one of the heifers a few months back and the ai man told definately not on a heifer. i think the progressive catalogue doesnt have either of the blondes in the suitable for maidens section.
Theres a farmer over the way who runs two blondes on his herd one is an english blonde the other a french. both throwing good qualityy calves but noticed a slight inconsistency in the quality of the calves. the english bull wouldnt have as much muscle as the french one and a lot easier calved too.
saying all that im throwing over a couple of heifers that repeated with him to get them incalf.

Bizzum

We would find some of our heifers getting too pure so we would use a different breed on them to throw this into the mix too.
BA no more than Lim or Part will not be the answer to every mans prayers, but sure try a few and see how they go. We took a punt and got some lovely stock off them.

redzerologhlen

1chippy wrote: »

I was going to use lochhead tyson on one of the heifers a few months back and the ai man told definately not on a heifer. i think the progressive catalogue doesnt have either of the blondes in the suitable for maidens section.
Theres a farmer over the way who runs two blondes on his herd one is an english blonde the other a french. both throwing good qualityy calves but noticed a slight inconsistency in the quality of the calves. the english bull wouldnt have as much muscle as the french one and a lot easier calved too.
saying all that im throwing over a couple of heifers that repeated with him to get them incalf.

Its funny because in the book they said he was suitable for maidens but I checked him up on icbf and he has no reliability on any of his indexes. Would be slow to use him because of that. Better the devil you know!!

Indubitable

What would be a decent cross if you wanted Blonde X sucklers?

Richk2012

Indubitable wrote: »

What would be a decent cross if you wanted Blonde X sucklers?

What do you mean .?? What breed would you cross wit a Blonde to result in a good suckler cow??????????

Indubitable

Richk2012 wrote: »

What do you mean .?? What breed would you cross wit a Blonde to result in a good suckler cow??????????

Yeah. Limousin maybe. Wonder how they would do on simis. If they were a good cross the simi would bring some milk I suppose.

bogman_bass

Indubitable wrote: »

Yeah. Limousin maybe. Wonder how they would do on simis. If they were a good cross the simi would bring some milk I suppose.

if you're going for replacements you would want something with milk. the blondes arent exactly blessed with loads of it

pakalasa

Strange the Blondes never took off here as a breed. Anybody that has them has usually good things to say about them. They do seem to have a very fine coat of hair, not exactly ideal for Irish conditions.

1chippy

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Its funny because in the book they said he was suitable for maidens but I checked him up on icbf and he has no reliability on any of his indexes. Would be slow to use him because of that. Better the devil you know!!

sorry iwas looking at the breeding advice section of the catalogue. (easy calving maiden heifers section)

Richk2012

Indubitable wrote: »

Yeah. Limousin maybe. Wonder how they would do on simis. If they were a good cross the simi would bring some milk I suppose.

Yea the simmental cross would be my choice aswell for the milk , although i have bought Belgian Blue heifers bred from strong British Fresians and they produced some of my best calves. They held their condition well rearing calves too , but one of them was from a holstien and got the same treatment as the rest of them and she went to skin on bone on me . Reared a decent calf as a heifer but you'd be ashamed of her if she was grazing fields by the road :rolleyes: ..

Bodacious

Richk2012 wrote: »

Indubitable wrote: »

Yeah. Limousin maybe. Wonder how they would do on simis. If they were a good cross the simi would bring some milk I suppose.

Yea the simmental cross would be my choice aswell for the milk , although i have bought Belgian Blue heifers bred from strong British Fresians and they produced some of my best calves. They held their condition well rearing calves too , but one of them was from a holstien and got the same treatment as the rest of them and she went to skin on bone on me . Reared a decent calf as a heifer but you'd be ashamed of her if she was grazing fields by the road :rolleyes: ..

hi rick,

Meant to be the ultimate cross Br Fr X BB to turn out heavy weanlings due to milk/ muscle on dam gene side, I don't have one but a lad near me went specifically to get 2 ended up with a Holstein X BB thrown in on the deal and she horrid leggy looking yoke and won't suit the ground round here!

I need to get a second calf this year for a cow that"ll have too much milk and if I can I'd like to source a nicely marked, good quality br fr x bb

leg wax

Indubitable wrote: »

What would be a decent cross if you wanted Blonde X sucklers?

i have 2 blonde cows with part calves a bull and heifer and i think its a great cross, i would question a cross with a sim because if you have blonde already you are totally changing the breeding direction by going sim,part will add more to the blonde as well as milk.

limo_100

wel lads this isin't the best place ta post this but it saves starting a new thread for one question. what would be the best blue bull for medium sized red limousion cows?? PG bulls are the only ones i use

Indubitable

I might experiment a bit and see what suits me best. I have heard good things and seen some Br Fr X BB heifers before and they were exceptional. Not sure how they would be for calving though, the ones I saw had a fairly small pelvis.

Bizzum

Pic 105: BA x CH Cow. Super breeder.
Pic 128: BA x CH Cow. Super Breeder.
Pic 115: BA x Lim heifer.
Pic 013: BA x Lim Cow. Maybe the best cow at home!
Pic 093: BA x AA Cow. Average breeder, except this year a very good CH bull calf.

Indubitable

Some very nice cattle there. Nicely shaped and a bit of length in them. The charolais X cows look decent for milk going by the size of the elder.

EDIT: The colour of the Lim X, I assume that is because she is off a black lim?

Bodacious

limo_100 wrote: »

wel lads this isin't the best place ta post this but it saves starting a new thread for one question. what would be the best blue bull for medium sized red limousion cows?? PG bulls are the only ones i use

ross alo a BYU son with height
FHZ
Or if she a good wide cow and a proven good calver try DEP

Others vertically challenged only IMO

vanderbadger

Bizzum wrote: »

Pic 105: BA x CH Cow. Super breeder.
Pic 128: BA x CH Cow. Super Breeder.
Pic 115: BA x Lim heifer.
Pic 013: BA x Lim Cow. Maybe the best cow at home!
Pic 093: BA x AA Cow. Average breeder, except this year a very good CH bull calf.

fine stock, they are huge, first two are very milky looking as well

pakalasa

Ya, super looking cows there Bizzum. Hard to believe you could do better than these. Lovely balance to them. Milk, depth of body, length, muscle, top line, all good on them, in fairness.

limo_100

Bodacious wrote: »

ross alo a BYU son with height
FHZ
Or if she a good wide cow and a proven good calver try DEP

Others vertically challenged only IMO

i used dep and he seems to be challenged height wise aswell so its just tuff to know what to use i think i'll use either FHZ or AZL. I wonder is RWS tall

Bodacious

Bizzum wrote: »

Pic 105: BA x CH Cow. Super breeder.
Pic 128: BA x CH Cow. Super Breeder.
Pic 115: BA x Lim heifer.
Pic 013: BA x Lim Cow. Maybe the best cow at home!
Pic 093: BA x AA Cow. Average breeder, except this year a very good CH bull calf.

great stock Bizzum, credit to ya

blue5000

Bizzum wrote: »

Pic 105: BA x CH Cow. Super breeder.
Pic 128: BA x CH Cow. Super Breeder.
Pic 115: BA x Lim heifer.
Pic 013: BA x Lim Cow. Maybe the best cow at home!
Pic 093: BA x AA Cow. Average breeder, except this year a very good CH bull calf.

Absolute smahers Bizzum, Are they all by the same blonde bull, and do you have any fertility problems with blondes?

Indubitable

I can't help but notice that the fertility values on ICBF are low. Would that be due to a long gestation? I see the calving interval is also quite long. I wonder how they are on their feet as they are quite small like a belgian blue.