Velodrome Ireland

MungoMan

I notice we only one velodrome in Ireland (according to Wikipedia).
And by all accounts, it's not like a modern indoor venue and it's not 250meters diameter.

Do we send any velodrome cyclists to the Olympics ? I guess it's not easy when there is nowhere for talent to develop.

Any plans to build one ?
Sounds like a great sport for Ireland to get into, because most countries dont have a velodrome, so unlike athletics, not many countries to compete against.

Beasty

There are three velodromes in Ireland - Sundrive (Dublin), Kanturk (250m) and Orangefield (Belfast)

If you've been checking the track world cup you will have seen Martyn Irvine is well placed to qualify for the Olympic Omnium event

There are plans for a new indoor track at Tallaght. Hopefully it will be built some time later this year

MungoMan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cycling_tracks_and_velodromes#Ireland

The Wikipedia article is not up to date ! It says only one track ! It doesnt have kanturk.

The Belfast one is listed (UK section)

RobFowl

MungoMan wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cycling_tracks_and_velodromes#Ireland

The Wikipedia article is not up to date ! It says only one track ! It doesnt have kanturk.

The Belfast one is listed (UK section)

Thats why the first things students are told in universities these days is don't rely on Wikipedia

kumate_champ07

there will be news about the Tallaght indoor velodrome very soon. 1 last hurdle left

High Nellie

Hey, comeon - we've been getting teases like that for what seems like forever What's going on:rolleyes: Anticipated timescale? It'll be some coup if ye manage to pull it off:P

Beasty

I'm pretty sure it will happen, but remain a little sceptical over timing until we actually get a formal announcement that the legalities are complete

langdang

MungoMan wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cycling_tracks_and_velodromes#Ireland

The Wikipedia article is not up to date ! It says only one track ! It doesnt have kanturk.

The Belfast one is listed (UK section)

Not up to date is a bit of understatement! That kanturk velodrome is there since before Wikipedia existed!

Edit, seems that may have been an exaggeration - thought they did have an older facility in the kanturk banteer area...

STANDCLEAR!!!

Velodrome planned for Dundalk with local cycle club as well

morana

High Nellie wrote: »

Hey, comeon - we've been getting teases like that for what seems like forever What's going on:rolleyes: Anticipated timescale? It'll be some coup if ye manage to pull it off:P

Soon! Why do you use the term 'ye'?

We have to be sure we are not going to hang a noose around the members and organisations neck. I am sure the members wouldnt thank us if we had to raise licences to cover the costs of an underused facility.

marketty

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

there will be news about the Tallaght indoor velodrome very soon. 1 last hurdle left

A velodrome with hurdles?
Is that a cyclocross thing??

MungoMan

Beasty wrote: »

T
If you've been checking the track world cup you will have seen Martyn Irvine is well placed to qualify for the Olympic Omnium event

Where is Martyn from, and where does he train ?
Is it true that in order to be good on a Velodrome, you need to train regularly on a Velodrome ?

Beasty

MungoMan wrote: »

Where is Martyn from, and where does he train ?
Is it true that in order to be good on a Velodrome, you need to train regularly on a Velodrome ?

He's from NI, currently living in North County Dublin. He's in the far east racing at present. His track training is currently done overseas, which is part of the reason for having a new indoor track here as it will cut down on the costs of sending cyclists overseas for training. Track cyclists are typically amateur and rely on their national federations for support.

Check out Eoin Mullen also - he made his World Cup debut in London a couple of weeks ago.

Track sprinters do most of their training on the track (and in the gym). Endurance riders typically spend a lot of the time on the road also

High Nellie

morana wrote: »

Why do you use the term 'ye'?

Because I presume there is more than one person involved in driving it - i.e. 'ye'

morana

we are still trying to tie up some issues around the lease. If these can be sorted we are good to go. The communication is ongoing .....

we were talking to Brailsford about it in London WC and he was very enthusiastic about. Move Heaven and Earth to get it done as it will pay back in spades was what he said. It was nice to hear him talk to us like that....

kumate_champ07

"• The possibility of a training velodrome in Tallaght was effectively dead and attention would now focus on a velodrome as in Abbotstown with support from the National Sports Campus."

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Board-Update-05th-July-2013-Meeting.aspx


what a joke.

Rugby has plenty of well equipped schools and clubs with great training facilities, the GAA also has plenty of facilities. why cant Cycling Ireland do it themselves rather than wait for something that might not even happen, at the site of the 'Bertie Bowl'

morana

Very disappointed to see the Tallaght project die. In my time on the board the operational costs were a worry but I always felt they underestimated the return they would get from the facility. Added to this they went to see the indoor running track in Athlone(?) and seemed to be convinced to go for the big bang approach rather than an interim track.

I think the cost for an Abbottstown facility would be circa €10m.

kumate_champ07

morana wrote: »

Very disappointed to see the Tallaght project die. In my time on the board the operational costs were a worry but I always felt they underestimated the return they would get from the facility. Added to this they went to see the indoor running track in Athlone(?) and seemed to be convinced to go for the big bang approach rather than an interim track.

I think the cost for an Abbottstown facility would be circa €10m.

defintely. just lacking in vision,
it would have flourished in Tallaght. Im sure there could have been FAS courses or job bridge schemes set up to fill the positions needed to run the place.

kumate_champ07

so is the wood for sale now? might ask my grandad if I can use one of his fields for a velodrome, Ill keep it covered when its raining somehow!

hardCopy

morana wrote: »

Very disappointed to see the Tallaght project die. In my time on the board the operational costs were a worry but I always felt they underestimated the return they would get from the facility. Added to this they went to see the indoor running track in Athlone(?) and seemed to be convinced to go for the big bang approach rather than an interim track.

I think the cost for an Abbottstown facility would be circa €10m.

What kind of spec would an Abbottstown track have, would it be a training track like was planned for Tallaght, or competition spec?

Can CI get more government funding by moving to Abbottstown?

Beasty

The wood was sent back a year or two ago

The Tallaght proposal was dead in the water some time ago - they simply could not get a sensible lease and there was a risk that the whole thing would be scrapped after a few years. I also have a concern about trying to fit something like this into an existing building - even a purpose built one like Manchester suffered for many years before they managed to properly seal the roof - many sessions were cancelled because the track was damp!

As I understand it this proposal has been put forward in conjunction with Badminton Ireland who would look to share the facility. I would be interested to see the plans before commenting further - in particular whether a full 250m track is envisaged. To be clear though - if it can be used for training it will also be suitable for racing

I think Government funding would be sought for Abbotstown.

Seaneh

Surely with Ireland having a current world champion the last year would have been the perfect time for CI to try and lobby the government and start a PR campaign to raise the prospects of a proper indoor velodrome happening in the near future?

morana

AFAIK the track would be a full UCI compliant 250m track. The wood was sold as Beasty says sometime ago. I expect they will look at a buy a board scheme or something along those lines. I know Denis Toomey had a proposal. If half the cash could be raised privately there was scope for investment from public funds.

The sticking point was indeed the length of the lease which the leaseholders wanted to limit at 5 years however the Dept of Sport wanted a significantly longer lease to be signed ~21yrs. Gov are giving the site foc iirc

Beasty

Seaneh wrote: »

Surely with Ireland having a current world champion the last year would have been the perfect time for CI to try and lobby the government and start a PR campaign to raise the prospects of a proper indoor velodrome happening in the near future?

Do you have any idea how much a "proper" velodrome costs? (to give you a clue, the London "velopark", including BMX track, cost around £105m. I think the Newport one cost in the single digit millions to construct) Basically it's a non-starter. The proposals being put forward are considered "adequate" which is all we can hope for in the current economic climate. I suspect the Abbotstown proposal may well be technically superior to the Tallaght one, because they are able to build the track within a dedicated structure

Seaneh

Beasty wrote: »

Do you have any idea how much a "proper" velodrome costs? (to give you a clue, the London "velopark", including BMX track, cost around £105m. I think the Newport one cost in the single digit millions to construct) Basically it's a non-starter. The proposals being put forward are considered "adequate" which is all we can hope for in the current economic climate. I suspect the Abbotstown proposal may well be technically superior to the Tallaght one, because they are able to build the track within a dedicated structure

By "proper" I just meant indoor, wooden, 250m track that can be used all year and to a decent standard.

I wasn't really aiming for something like Manchester or London. Just a usable indoor track.

Beasty

Seaneh wrote: »

By "proper" I just meant indoor, wooden, 250m track that can be used all year and to a decent standard.

I wasn't really aiming for something like Manchester or London. Just a usable indoor track.

But that's exactly what the Abbotstown proposal is supposed to be. Again though I have not seen any detailed plans at this stage

Squidgy Black

Beasty wrote: »

Do you have any idea how much a "proper" velodrome costs? (to give you a clue, the London "velopark", including BMX track, cost around £105m. I think the Newport one cost in the single digit millions to construct) Basically it's a non-starter. The proposals being put forward are considered "adequate" which is all we can hope for in the current economic climate. I suspect the Abbotstown proposal may well be technically superior to the Tallaght one, because they are able to build the track within a dedicated structure

Beasty's right. British Cycling last year was given €30 million by the British government, which is three times as much as our government allocated to all governing sports bodies, so realistically with the FAI, IRFU, GAA, CI etc they probably only saw €2 million or so of funding.

Asking for a €130 million velodrome is definitely a non-runner until cycling in this country is recognised as a top sport.

Seaneh

Beasty wrote: »

But that's exactly what the Abbotstown proposal is supposed to be. Again though I have not seen any detailed plans at this stage

I get that, and I hope abbots town happens (well, I just hope SOMETHING happens), why it just seems like rather than using Irvine's world championships win as a platform for pushing for govt. funding and public fund raising, it's all been very flat from CI and no momentum had been gained from it.

Beasty

Seaneh wrote: »

I get that, and I hope abbots town happens (well, I just hope SOMETHING happens), why it just seems like rather than using Irvine's world championships win as a platform for pushing for govt. funding and public fund raising, it's all been very flat from CI and no momentum had been gained from it.

I think you can safely assume that Mr Irvine's exploits have given this project fresh momentum

You should also be aware that, as already pointed out by morana, Denis Toomey, who led the Irish Paracycling team to the Olympics, is strongly behind this. The paracyclists would gain massively from such a facility (and for info, Denis has put his hat in the ring for the CI presidency which will be voted on at next month's AGM)

morana

Beasty wrote: »

I think you can safely assume that Mr Irvine's exploits have given this project fresh momentum

You should also be aware that, as already pointed out by morana, Denis Toomey, who led the Irish Paracycling team to the Olympics, is strongly behind this. The paracyclists would gain massively from such a facility (and for info, Denis has put his hat in the ring for the CI presidency which will be voted on at next month's AGM)

The budget in general would benefit if you remember they spend approx 100k on track training

spyderski

If CI had nominated Pat McQuaid we'd be well on the way to getting a velodrome......

Dermot Illogical

spyderski wrote: »

If CI had nominated Pat McQuaid we'd be well on the way to getting a velodrome......

3rd time lucky sort of a thing?

morana

spyderski wrote: »

If CI had nominated Pat McQuaid we'd be well on the way to getting a velodrome......

god that brings back memories!!!!

Amz

Beasty wrote: »

I think you can safely assume that Mr Irvine's exploits have given this project fresh momentum

You should also be aware that, as already pointed out by morana, Denis Toomey, who led the Irish Paracycling team to the Olympics, is strongly behind this. The paracyclists would gain massively from such a facility (and for info, Denis has put his hat in the ring for the CI presidency which will be voted on at next month's AGM)

It would be awesome for Paracycling!

Costs mount up so quickly, for those of us not currently in receipt of funding the idea of going abroad for training is a little daunting.

What are Denis' chances to get the CI Presidency do you reckon, or is that for another thread?

Beasty

Amz wrote: »

What are Denis' chances to get the CI Presidency do you reckon, or is that for another thread?

It is for another thread, but I am currently unaware of any other candidates

kumate_champ07

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Beasty's right. British Cycling last year was given €30 million by the British government, which is three times as much as our government allocated to all governing sports bodies, so realistically with the FAI, IRFU, GAA, CI etc they probably only saw €2 million or so of funding.

Asking for a €130 million velodrome is definitely a non-runner until cycling in this country is recognised as a top sport.

The GAA is well funded from match ticket sales anyway, its not like they need a handout. rugby is dominant in most private/fee paying/boarding schools who have their own gyms,coaches and playing areas. theres no Irish schools with their own cycle team and track.

Tallaght wasnt going to have any seating, it was supposed to save on sending athletes abroad, the number 1 priority was elite riders, not the average joe who wants to ride a velodrome. but it could have been something for the community too.

heres a few ideas I had:

a bike friendly cafe with space inside for bikes

small shop selling tyres,tubes,allen keys/small tool kits, centre is close to Wicklow cycle routes

shower facilites, commuters could leave their bikes in the centre in storage, shower, coffee and breakfast then off to work in nearby businesses/industrial estates

a workshop for trainee race mechanics

some kind of membership with discounts off velodrome time/food, get 1hr free for every 9hrs booked.

friday night events during winter, free in with beverages and hot food available to buy. limited capicty for spectators but not many come to sundrive anyway, possibly 50 seats?


alot of clubs would use the velodrome during winter months, a winter league could be run. a league for local schools too

kumate_champ07

spyderski wrote: »

If CI had nominated Pat McQuaid we'd be well on the way to getting a velodrome......

its a joke, the man was/is head of global cycling and looks after his close business associates/family, but never got his own country a velodrome

Beasty

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

its a joke, the man was/is head of global cycling and looks after his close business associates/family, but never got his own country a velodrome

It would have been much more of a joke if he had. That would be completely inappropriate abuse of his position

kumate_champ07

Beasty wrote: »

It would have been much more of a joke if he had. That would be completely inappropriate abuse of his position

not necessarily. it could have been privately funded. Dennis O Brien pays a 6figure sum for our football manager, hes also c____t* tho

(7 letter word)*

Beasty

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

not necessarily. it could have been privately funded. Dennis O Brien pays a 6figure sum for our football manager, hes also c____t* tho

(7 letter word)*

The President of the UCI should not use his position to influence which countries get particular facilities, and should certainly not be working in the interests of "his" federation ahead of others. That is abuse of power.

morana

Beasty wrote: »

It is for another thread, but I am currently unaware of any other candidates

Ahemmmm! I am

wav1

morana wrote: »

Ahemmmm! I am

So am I [aware of at LEAST one]

wav1

wav1 wrote: »

So am I [aware of at LEAST one]

There was very nearly another one a few months ago,when this writer had a ''little'' too much refreshment one night and ''nearly'' considered it after some encouragement.Then i woke up and it came back to me.ouch

morana

wav1 wrote: »

There was very nearly another one a few months ago,when this writer had a ''little'' too much refreshment one night and ''nearly'' considered it after some encouragement.Then i woke up and it came back to me.ouch

Well the writer would be ideal for the position.

DubVelo

Seaneh wrote: »

By "proper" I just meant indoor, wooden, 250m track that can be used all year and to a decent standard.

I wasn't really aiming for something like Manchester or London. Just a usable indoor track.

This.

The Olympic velopark is hardly a fair or relevant comparison.

How much did Falun cost?

And what's all this 'just a training centre for elite athletes' attitude about?
The great thing about the older track in London is that anyone can roll up on a any Saturday morning for an introductory group lesson with a few little races at the end.
This obviously has the knock on effect of promoting interest in the sport, and spectating and finding new talent.

Squidgy Black

DubVelo wrote: »

This.

The Olympic velopark is hardly a fair or relevant comparison.

How much did Falun cost?

And what's all this 'just a training centre for elite athletes' attitude about?
The great thing about the older track in London is that anyone can roll up on a any Saturday morning for an introductory group lesson with a few little races at the end.
This obviously has the knock on effect of promoting interest in the sport, and spectating and finding new talent.

Herne Hill? It's basically their equivalent of Sundrive, an outdoor track.

You can roll up on a Saturday during the summer and do an accredation at Sundrive too, I don't know what the story is during the winter now.

The idea behind the indoor velodrome was that it would be a place for the Irish team to practice, give lads like Irvine and the other national competitors like the Paralympics squads etc a decent setup to train in, so they wouldn't have to train in Manchester most of the time.

DubVelo

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Herne Hill? It's basically their equivalent of Sundrive, an outdoor track.

You can roll up on a Saturday during the summer and do an accredation at Sundrive too, I don't know what the story is during the winter now.

It is that. But my point is it's open, accessible and welcoming to people interested in the sport. It's hard enough to even find any information about Sundrive or track cycling in Ireland and by all accounts it's a bleak place with no facilities that's subject to vandalism and your car gets broken into. That's all I've been able to glean from the web.

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

The idea behind the indoor velodrome was that it would be a place for the Irish team to practice, give lads like Irvine and the other national competitors like the Paralympics squads etc a decent setup to train in, so they wouldn't have to train in Manchester most of the time.

That's obvious, and all to the good. But you're kind of proving my point by coming straight back with that. To make such a facility worthwhile and value for money it also needs to function as a promotional tool for the sport and for recruiting young up and coming athletes.

I'm all for providing our national team the best possible facilities but at the end of the day they are a very small number of people compared to the very large number of people who would love to get to use a facility like this.

Squidgy Black

DubVelo wrote: »

It is that. But my point is it's open, accessible and welcoming to people interested in the sport. It's hard enough to even find any information about Sundrive or track cycling in Ireland and by all accounts it's a bleak place with no facilities that's subject to vandalism and your car gets broken into. That's all I've been able to glean from the web.



That's obvious, and all to the good. But you're kind of proving my point by coming straight back with that. To make such a facility worthwhile and value for money it also needs to function as a promotional tool for the sport and for recruiting young up and coming athletes.

I'm all for providing our national team the best possible facilities but at the end of the day they are a very small number of people compared to the very large number of people who would love to get to use a facility like this.

Have you tried looking at the Sundrive website, or the CI website? I found all the information I needed when starting out there.

I've been over at Herne Hill, it's the exact same as Sundrive. And chances are you won't have your car broken into in Crumlin. That's such a stupid generalisation by people who are afraid to leave their comfy little estates in upper-middle class suburbia.

You can't have a velodrome that can cater to the top end and your average joe. The track would end up filthy and covered in debris. There's a reason London Velopark is impossible to get into.

These things aren't really thought for as "value for money." CI wasn't formed as a money making scheme. It's there to provide cyclists in Ireland as best as they can. And what's needed is a system for our high end track cyclists. Club level is more than facilitated by Sundrive.

DubVelo

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Have you tried looking at the Sundrive website, or the CI website? I found all the information I needed when starting out there.

I've been over at Herne Hill, it's the exact same as Sundrive. And chances are you won't have your car broken into in Crumlin. That's such a stupid generalisation by people who are afraid to leave their comfy little estates in upper-middle class suburbia.

You can't have a velodrome that can cater to the top end and your average joe. The track would end up filthy and covered in debris. There's a reason London Velopark is impossible to get into.

These things aren't really thought for as "value for money." CI wasn't formed as a money making scheme. It's there to provide cyclists in Ireland as best as they can. And what's needed is a system for our high end track cyclists. Club level is more than facilitated by Sundrive.

Under 'Track Times' on the trackcycling.ie website I found times for 2008, 2009 and 2010. The CI website is awful, I found more info from stickybottle.com. More to the point, I'm from Dublin and I never even knew we had a velodrome!

I don't know the area myself, I'm just saying that's what I've read while searching for info.

I find that attitude ridiculously snobby. You do know the 'average joe' can go along and access the Manchester velodrome? And the Olympic velodrome was going to be opened to the public after the games.
Oh, it already has: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/on-your-bikes-london-now-you-can-ride-the-olympic-velodrome-8763188.html

'Value' and 'profit' are not the same thing.

Squidgy Black

DubVelo wrote: »

Under 'Track Times' on the trackcycling.ie website I found times for 2008, 2009 and 2010. The CI website is awful, I found more info from stickybottle.com. More to the point, I'm from Dublin and I never even knew we had a velodrome!

I don't know the area myself, I'm just saying that's what I've read while searching for info.

I find that attitude ridiculously snobby. You do know the 'average joe' can go along and access the Manchester velodrome? And the Olympic velodrome was going to be opened to the public after the games.
Oh, it already has: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/on-your-bikes-london-now-you-can-ride-the-olympic-velodrome-8763188.html

'Value' and 'profit' are not the same thing.

Best bet is to look at the current calendar, it gives you the times for the weeks. The website's a bit outdated, but it's still functional.

I'm not being snobby, I wouldn't even consider myself an average joe, I've only rode down in Sundrive twice. Olympic Velodrome can only be booked through a club with massive numbers and a huge waiting list, so it's far from open to the public.

See the thing is, GB have huge funding for their cycling programs, whereas CI just don't have the kind of money to have a massive indoor velodrome and still keep it open to the public. It involves running accredation sessions, hiring and paying coaches, hire bikes, more reception staff etc.

Harrybelafonte

DubVelo wrote: »

It is that. But my point is it's open, accessible and welcoming to people interested in the sport. It's hard enough to even find any information about Sundrive or track cycling in Ireland and by all accounts it's a bleak place with no facilities that's subject to vandalism and your car gets broken into. That's all I've been able to glean from the web.



That's obvious, and all to the good. But you're kind of proving my point by coming straight back with that. To make such a facility worthwhile and value for money it also needs to function as a promotional tool for the sport and for recruiting young up and coming athletes.

I'm all for providing our national team the best possible facilities but at the end of the day they are a very small number of people compared to the very large number of people who would love to get to use a facility like this.

A very large number of people? Numbers have increased certainly but we're well off "very large numbers who would LOVE to get to use a facility like this". Maybe they're the people who come on here commenting on how much they want an indoor velodrome in Ireland, have never been to Sundrive either to spectate of participate, mention how little info there is online about Sundrive despite a Facebook page, a Twitter account, a dedicated page at trackcycling.ie, a section in the CI website and the multiple threads on here, comment on the lack of facilities, again while having never been there so haven't seen the clubhouse with changing rooms and showers and bike rentals and meeting room. In fact during the bigger races seating has been provided and a shop is set up. Seats were empty for the whole event. I mean, who wants to spectate at something when you have to stand. I personally demand something for my free entry, it's not like its the Tour or anything. If I'm going to participate in something I'd demand heating, protection from the weather and somewhere to sit.

Vandalism and thievery has occurred yes. We're in the middle of a capital city in a less well off area, I'm not sure what you want, 24 hour Garda presence? Tallaght was going to be the site of the indoor, would you have vetoed that location?

If you want an indoor velodrome, stop coming here complaining about it and participate.