13 hours lying on her bedroom floor and AnPost still dont care?

WORD

Hi
My motherinlaw lay overnight for 13 hours on her bedroom floor unable to use her onpost mobile phone. It was locked out. Why?
We cant find out. We are being told that under the data protection act unless we can get the old lady to her phone the operator wont deal with her family. The operator had no supervisor attending and has offered to ring us back. We explained the circumstances of her being in hospital and that she needed to have her phone.
I am still waiting for the return call from the operators supervisor. To me this is a security issue and no family should have to go through it. I am annoyed that anpost will sell a mobile phone to a old lady and then ignore her calls for help in her hour of need. This is wrong.
Thankyou for reading this.

player101

Id be angry if i was you to, i just want to point this out before you get a barrage of email, even when any phone is locked out you can still make emergency calls to 999 or 112, this will more than likely be An posts response. hope it goes well, and hope th emotherinlaw is ok.

WORD

player101 wrote: »

Id be angry if i was you to, i just want to point this out before you get a barrage of email, even when any phone is locked out you can still make emergency calls to 999 or 112, this will more than likely be An posts response. hope it goes well, and hope th emotherinlaw is ok.

All we want to do is bring her phone back to her hospital bed so her immediate family can contact her. Half an hour later i am still waiting on anpost to ring me back. The operator blanked any attempts to unlock the phone despite it having credit. Do old people need to be treated this way?

28064212

If thief has stolen a phone, wouldn't they just say the real owner is "in hospital" if that will get it unlocked?

Your situation is unfortunate, but the protections are in place for a reason

WORD

28064212 wrote: »

If thief has stolen a phone, wouldn't they just say the real owner is "in hospital" if that will get it unlocked?

Your situation is unfortunate, but the protections are in place for a reason

And a good enough reason to hinder and not help an old lady lying in her hospital bed with a service that is deemed defunct because of a law that can protect in one hand and hinder in another.
Your statement would come in a time of need. Thankyou for that. It was most helpful.
On my next visit to see her i will tell her that.
No trawling please.

GreenWolfe

WORD wrote: »

All we want to do is bring her phone back to her hospital bed so her immediate family can contact her. Half an hour later i am still waiting on anpost to ring me back. The operator blanked any attempts to unlock the phone despite it having credit. Do old people need to be treated this way?

How do you mean locked? If she entered the PIN incorrectly and then needed a PUK she may not have had the chance, or even knew about that facility before your mother-in-law was took ill.

RangeR

If AnPost won't talk to you and you NEED phone, get a new SIM and or phone as a temp measure.

28064212

WORD wrote: »

And a good enough reason to hinder and not help an old lady lying in her hospital bed with a service that is deemed defunct because of a law that can protect in one hand and hinder in another.
Your statement would come in a time of need. Thankyou for that. It was most helpful.
On my next visit to see her i will tell her that.
No trawling please.

:rolleyes: If your mother-in-law had her phone stolen, and the thief entered the wrong PIN three times, would you be on here complaining that An Post had unlocked the phone because the thief had sold them a sob story? I think you probably would

Why can't your mother-in-law contact An Post btw?

Radharc na Sleibhte

WORD wrote: »

And a good enough reason to hinder and not help an old lady lying in her hospital bed with a service that is deemed defunct because of a law that can protect in one hand and hinder in another.
Your statement would come in a time of need. Thankyou for that. It was most helpful.
On my next visit to see her i will tell her that.
No trawling please.

what he said is correct.

If theyve upset you, change provider, get a new phone and tell them where to stick their phone when they call you back (which i wouldnt hold my breath for btw).

leeroybrown

I'd be *extremely* unhappy if someone was able to ring up my mobile provided, claim I was ill then get my phone unlocked. What they're doing is for your mother's own protection even if it's currently inconvenient.

WORD

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

How do you mean locked? If she entered the PIN incorrectly and then needed a PUK she may not have had the chance, or even knew about that facility before your mother-in-law was took ill.

We presume that because she had not used or credited her mobile phone for a certain lenght of time that it locked itself. Correct me if i am wrong.
All we want to do is give it back to her. She is in no fit state to deal with anyone at the moment. The operator was speaking to her daughter and gave details that was only pretaining to the family in question. I personally spent some time on the phone too. This is rediculus!
I was told that one of the supervisore had left the office and another one was on another call and she would phone me back. That was an hour ago.

irelandrover

WORD wrote: »

We presume that because she had not used or credited her mobile phone for a certain lenght of time that it locked itself. Correct me if i am wrong.
All we want to do is give it back to her. She is in no fit state to deal with anyone at the moment. The operator was speaking to her daughter and gave details that was only pretaining to the family in question. I personally spent some time on the phone too. This is rediculus!
I was told that one of the supervisore had left the office and another one was on another call and she would phone me back. That was an hour ago.

Its not AnPost's fault if you do not use the phone correctly. If your mother in law doesn't credit her phone in the required time then she should have gone with a different company with different rules.

amdublin

From my reading it sounds like your mil locked her ph and could not ring for help.
Im confused where anpost come in to this.
Were they aware she was lying in the floor but they refuses to unlock it for her?

I think you should look at a better alert system for your mil - maybe an alarm that she wears [like a necklace] that she just as to press a button.

I have no clue why you think it is anposts fault that your mil was not helped when she fell.

I hope your mil is doing better now.

Bruthal

WORD wrote: »

And a good enough reason to hinder and not help an old lady lying in her hospital bed with a service that is deemed defunct because of a law that can protect in one hand and hinder in another.
Your statement would come in a time of need. Thankyou for that. It was most helpful.
On my next visit to see her i will tell her that.
No trawling please.

Hardly trolling, as what the poster said is true. You know the unfortunate situation is true, but how are the phone operators to know its not simply a stolen phone?

You would need to see can you setup an arrangement so that someone other than the phone owner can deal with the operators if it needs be in future. They ask the phone owner security questions etc to identify it is actually them. So you for example could probably arrange with them that you look after it in future, through permission from the phone owner, your MIL in this case.

GreenWolfe

WORD wrote: »

We presume that because she had not used or credited her mobile phone for a certain lenght of time that it locked itself. Correct me if i am wrong.
All we want to do is give it back to her. She is in no fit state to deal with anyone at the moment. The operator was speaking to her daughter and gave details that was only pretaining to the family in question. I personally spent some time on the phone too. This is rediculus!
I was told that one of the supervisore had left the office and another one was on another call and she would phone me back. That was an hour ago.

http://www.postfone.ie/terms_and_conditions_/34/information.aspx

• 1. You may apply Credit to Your Account by means of any of the methods made available by Postfone from time to time and may thereafter make Calls for a certain fixed period as advised by Us from time to time (please refer to Postfone´s Customer Guide for details). The amount of the Credit will reduce as a result of Calls being made. No Calls may be made once all Credit has been used (with the exception of Calls to the emergency services and to the number 1747 or such other number as We may specify). You may continue to receive Calls for a period of 180 days (or such other period as We may advise from time to time) following the date on which Credit is last applied to the Account. It is up to You to decide how much Credit to load onto Your Account. If Your Account has no Credit You will still be able to receive incoming Calls, but You will not be able to make outgoing Calls or access any Content.

The phone must not have been topped up for about ~6 months. Even for a casual user, that's infrequent.

As far as I can see, if your mother-in-law was in trouble, and was able to call emergency services or customer services using an inactive SIM then Postfone have fullfilled their end of the bargain.

jordainius

Was the phone locked due to not having topped up recently enough (in which case the solution is simple- top up!) or was the pin blocked due to it being entered incorrectly?

I'm sorry your mother was ill, and that she was stranded for so long but those things have nothing to do with Postfone. They can't give priority to customers based on wellbeing and age, all customers have to be treated the same.

Bruthal

A wrongly entered pin a few times will lock the phone sim out also, requiring the PUK code to then unlock it.

WORD

irelandrover wrote: »

Its not AnPost's fault if you do not use the phone correctly. If your mother in law doesn't credit her phone in the required time then she should have gone with a different company with different rules.

Thankyou for ignoring the issue!
What i am trying to get across is if the person who owns the phone is incapasited why wont the company who provides the sevice at least help the immediate family resolve the situation.

jordainius

WORD wrote: »

Thankyou for ignoring the issue!
What i am trying to get across is if the person who owns the phone is incapasited why wont the company who provides the sevice at least help the immediate family resolve the situation.

Data protection law.

amdublin

WORD wrote: »

irelandrover wrote: »

Its not AnPost's fault if you do not use the phone correctly. If your mother in law doesn't credit her phone in the required time then she should have gone with a different company with different rules.

Thankyou for ignoring the issue!
What i am trying to get across is if the person who owns the phone is incapasited why wont the company who provides the sevice at least help the immediate family resolve the situation.

Thats simple to answer!

How do they know you are son in law and not phone thief?

Data protection law

WORD

amdublin wrote: »

Thats simple to answer!

How do they know you are son in law and not phone thief?

Data protection law

By giving personal details that only the family would know.

irelandrover

WORD wrote: »

Thankyou for ignoring the issue!
What i am trying to get across is if the person who owns the phone is incapasited why wont the company who provides the sevice at least help the immediate family resolve the situation.

By doing what?
Do you want AnPost to unlock every phone if someone rings up and says the owner is in the hospital?

WORD wrote: »

By giving personal details that only the family would know

What information would this be?

mathepac

irelandrover wrote: »

Its not AnPost's fault if you do not use the phone correctly. ...

Maybe so, but I believe lots of tech is being sold to people who haven't got the first clue who to contact or how to get themselves out of a fix when they encounter the simplest obstacle.

I believe it is incumbent on the retailer and/or the service provider to ensure that people, elderly people in particular, understand thoroughly what they are buying and how it works.For example, there should be a big button on every mobile labelled "Help Me" that gets through to a help-desk at all times, whether the phone is in credit or not, locked out from other calls or not and/or there must there must be a single button pre-programmed to 999/112, and clearly labelled.

Change the laws and force people to stand up for their customers as well as stand over their products.

Sorry to her about your mother-in-law OP; I hope she makes a full recovery.

irelandrover

mathepac wrote: »

Maybe so, but I believe lots of tech is being sold to people who haven't got the first clue who to contact or how to get themselves out of a fix when they encounter the simplest obstacle.

I believe it is incumbent on the retailer and/or the service provider to ensure that people, elderly people in particular, understand thoroughly what they are buying and how it works.For example, there should be a big button on every mobile labelled "Help Me" that gets through to a help-desk at all times, whether the phone is in credit or not, locked out from other calls or not and/or there must there must be a single button pre-programmed to 999/112, and clearly labelled.

Change the laws and force people to stand up for their customers as well as stand over their products.

Sorry to her about your mother-in-law OP; I hope she makes a full recovery.

If you don't know how to use something then don't buy it. Or learn how to use it before you buy it. I should not have to have a big Help Me button on my phone because someone else cant read a manual or terms and conditions.

leeroybrown

WORD wrote: »

By giving personal details that only the family would know.

I've seen mobile phone companies allow this kind of family intervention before. It generally involved parents spying on their adult children or angry ex-gfs/bfs causing trouble.

GreenWolfe

irelandrover wrote: »

If you don't know how to use something then don't buy it. Or learn how to use it before you buy it. I should not have to have a big Help Me button on my phone because someone else cant read a manual or terms and conditions.

What's the model of the phone OP? Don't Postfone carry a few Doro models? i.e. phones more specifically targeted towards the elderly.

WORD

irelandrover wrote: »

By doing what?
Do you want AnPost to unlock every phone if someone rings up and says the owner is in the hospital?



What information would this be?

I dont intend to entertain you any longer as you have missed the point completely.

irelandrover

WORD wrote: »

I dont intend to entertain you any longer as you have missed the point completely.

The point as far as i can see is that you want AnPost to break data protection laws because they should know that your mother in law is sick in hospital.

WORD

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

What's the model of the phone OP? Don't Postfone carry a few Doro models? i.e. phones more specifically targeted towards the elderly.

Its a small Samsung flip phone. I dont see a model number on it. It has a red back on it.

Jev/N

Doesn't matter the operator as:

1) All mobile operators, as far as I'm aware, will block/lock the SIM after a period of inactivity and not topping up

2) All operators will heed data protection laws.


Can you clarify whether it's the SIM or the phone itself that is locked/blocked??

GreenWolfe

If the OP's mother in law was using a handset intended for the general public then she may have had trouble operating it. Perhaps she could have been provided with a phone more suitable for her needs, for example a dedicated emergency alarm function.

EDIT: Read your post OP. Your mother in law really should have been using something like this:

http://webshop.postfone.ie/p-7-doro-505.aspx

ceegee

wrt to the thread title, its still not entirely clear why your mil couldnt ring the emergency services - this is always available regardless of if the phone is locked.

I'd also be interested to know who purchased the phone, and if you or her sons/daughters checked she was able to use it properly

Wile E. Coyote

OP Whats stopping you from bringing the phone into the hospital, getting your mother in law to answer a couple of security questions and then asking them to deal directly with you to resolve the issue?

WORD

Jev/N wrote: »

Doesn't matter the operator as:

1) All mobile operators, as far as I'm aware, will block/lock the SIM after a period of inactivity and not topping up

2) All operators will heed data protection laws.


Can you clarify whether it's the SIM or the phone itself that is locked/blocked??

It is the phone itself. I had to restart it as the operator needed the number of the sim card to look for the phone number so after i put the card back in it shut down. I started it again and it did not ask for a number.

UDP

All your mother in law has to do is speak to the agent for only a minute where she can answer the security questions and ask them to speak to you on her behalf.

What I dont understand is you want a mobile for your mother in law to be able to take calls from family etc but yet you say she is incapacitated to be able to speak to a customer service rep for less than 1 minute?

You sound very unreasonable here.

amdublin

ceegee wrote: »

wrt to the thread title, its still not entirely clear why your mil couldnt ring the emergency services - this is always available regardless of if the phone is locked.

I'd also be interested to know who purchased the phone, and if you or her sons/daughters checked she was able to use it properly

Word - are you angry with youselves and trying to use anpost as a scapegoat?

I think the family need to take responsibility here

WORD

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

OP Whats stopping you from bringing the phone into the hospital, getting your mother in law to answer a couple of security questions and then asking them to deal directly with you to resolve the issue?

If you see the state that she is in id expect that you would be thrown out of the hospital for even attempting this stunt.

UDP

WORD wrote: »

If you see the state that she is in id expect that you would be thrown out of the hospital for even attempting this stunt.

Then why does she need a phone now? Why can't it be resolved when she is in a better state?

GreenWolfe

I don't know what Postfone could have done for the woman tbh. As far as I can see, the OP's mother-in-law wasn't provided with the mobile phone that catered to her specific needs.

People can often need more specialised equipment than what's available in the nearest shop.

RangeR

OP, this is not a consumer issue. I feel for your situation and I wish your MIL well. However, I feel that you are mis-directing your anger. This is not a problem of ANPost's doing. They can ONLY talk to your MIL or a prior appointed contact [eg, I am an appointed contact on many of my mother's accounts, for varying reasons].

AnPost just cannot talk to you or anyone else, other than your MIL. It's against the law. It really is as clear cut as that.

There are exceptions. For example, if a person dies, a family member can gain access to the service upon presentation of a death certificate but that's the only exception that I am aware of other than a court order.

Jev/N

WORD wrote: »

It is the phone itself. I had to restart it as the operator needed the number of the sim card to look for the phone number so after i put the card back in it shut down. I started it again and it did not ask for a number.

Sounds like incorrect PIN entry and requiring a PUK code as already stated earlier. Something the operators won't really give out to anyone other than the owner, as you've obviously found out.

(BTW I want to edit and preface this by saying that I don't condone breaching DP law and I will remove if mods require but it is a quick and practical solution if you do, as you say, have all the required security information)

First, why don't you get her daughter to ring "as her mother" and answer all the question like that. If you have the info, PRETEND to be her, they will generally be none the wiser and it'll all be sorted.


Now, without sounding too harsh in this situation, if you want your mother in law to have her phone at her bedside, presuming so you can contact her, why can are you arguing with the above poster who suggested you try to get her to answer PostFone's queries if she's in a fit state to have the phone. I'm taking it that she's not, but it's for the near future.

In that case, why are you so irate that the supervisors aren't in the office (around lunchtime) and it has only been circa 1-1.5 hours?

Wile E. Coyote

WORD wrote: »

If you see the state that she is in id expect that you would be thrown out of the hospital for even attempting this stunt.

But yet you want her to be able to take calls from family and friends?

WORD

amdublin wrote: »

Word - are you angry with youselves and trying to use anpost as a scapegoat?

I think the family need to take responsibility here

On the contary. From the start, all the family want to do is get this old ladies phone sorted for her so when she is well enough she can keep in contact with her family. I think that AnPost do a great job but unfortunately when it comes to helping out a customers family they wont respond no matter how much proof that you put their way. The family will sort this out themselves but as for anpost well its been an hour and a half and no phonecall back. Its this level of service that concerns me after the amount of time i spent waiting on the operator and then to be ignored is a tad annoying. God help tham. It must be a strain on their resources to pick up the phone and return a call from a customers concerned family.

UDP

WORD wrote: »

On the contary. From the start, all the family want to do is get this old ladies phone sorted for her so when she is well enough she can keep in contact with her family. I think that AnPost do a great job but unfortunately when it comes to helping out a customers family they wont respond no matter how much proof that you put their way. The family will sort this out themselves but as for anpost well its been an hour and a half and no phonecall back. Its this level of service that concerns me after the amount of time i spent waiting on the operator and then to be ignored is a tad annoying. God help tham. It must be a strain on their resources to pick up the phone and return a call from a customers concerned family.

But you do not need the phone right now since she is not in a fit state to use it. Even if they do ring you back they would be breaking their own policies by helping you out when they do not have any evidence that you are telling the truth.

Lots of people know enough personal details about other people to access their accounts so companies cannot knowingly give information to a non-account holder as it is against the law.

Wow, I pity an post mobile customer service reps.

Diddler1977

WORD wrote: »

On the contary. From the start, all the family want to do is get this old ladies phone sorted for her so when she is well enough she can keep in contact with her family. I think that AnPost do a great job but unfortunately when it comes to helping out a customers family they wont respond no matter how much proof that you put their way. The family will sort this out themselves but as for anpost well its been an hour and a half and no phonecall back. Its this level of service that concerns me after the amount of time i spent waiting on the operator and then to be ignored is a tad annoying. God help tham. It must be a strain on their resources to pick up the phone and return a call from a customers concerned family.

An post have a contract with your MIL not her family.

Your MIL is the customer. Her family are of no concern to An Post.

Maybe you could consider heading to the nearest mobile phone shop. For less then €100 you can pick up a ready to go phone (with credit) suitable for an elderly person.

An Post do not have to deal with you. They owe you nothing.

dudara

OP - I think you're making this far too personal, and not realising the realities of the situation.

There are Data Protection Laws which have to be respected. If you have to wait until your mother-in-law is in a better state to talk to An Post, then you'll have to wait. Alternatively, you can try to work with An Post to find some other way of resolving the situation.

In addition, if your mother-in-law is unwell, and this could happen again, then you need to make sure that either her mobile remains topped up, or there is an alternative alert system.

I hope your mother-in-law gets better soon.

GreenWolfe

Diddler1977 wrote: »

An post have a contract with your MIL not her family.

Your MIL is the customer. Her family are of no concern to An Post.

Maybe you could consider heading to the nearest mobile phone shop. For less then €100 you can pick up a ready to go phone (with credit) suitable for an elderly person.

An Post do not have to deal with you. They owe you nothing.

I've already linked to an example of one. And OP seemed to have ignored it

Wile E. Coyote

WORD wrote: »

On the contary. From the start, all the family want to do is get this old ladies phone sorted for her so when she is well enough she can keep in contact with her family. I think that AnPost do a great job but unfortunately when it comes to helping out a customers family they wont respond no matter how much proof that you put their way. The family will sort this out themselves but as for anpost well its been an hour and a half and no phonecall back. Its this level of service that concerns me after the amount of time i spent waiting on the operator and then to be ignored is a tad annoying. God help tham. It must be a strain on their resources to pick up the phone and return a call from a customers concerned family.

I think you're really blowing this out of all porportion.

It's been an hour and a half. People are entitled to take a lunch and I'm sure your call isn't the only query they will have received today. On top of that your mother in law doesn't even need the phone as you have already said she is in no condition to use it. I think you need to stop worrying about a phone and look after your mother in law.

Diddler1977

Just rereading the thread.

Am I right in thinking the OP wants An Post to break Data Protection Laws in order to get MIL's phone working again even though MIL is not in any condition to use said phone?

OP, why don't you just wait until your MIL is able to use a phone again and she can contact An Post and sort it out.

What use is a working phone to her at this moment in time?

WORD

It has been sorted. I got a phone call from anpost and they have unlocked the phone.
Thankyou to everyone here that helped.
Kind regards.
Word.

GreenWolfe

WORD wrote: »

It has been sorted. I got a phone call from anpost and they have unlocked the phone.
Thankyou to everyone here that helped.
Kind regards.
Word.

It's great that you've got a resolution and I hope that your mother-in-law will get better soon.

Looking ahead, please consider purchasing a handset that would be more relevant to her needs. I would imagine that a Samsung Cobble (afaik from what you said earlier) would be difficult enough for an elderly woman to use normally, never mind in an emergency.