Polish welfare cheats "conspired against the Irish"

My_left_leg

A man and a woman, both Polish and both living in Claremorris, have been sentenced to three months’ imprisonment each for fraudulent social welfare claims of €2,419 and €1,713 respectively last year.
In two separate cases at last week’s sitting in Castlebar District Court, Judge Mary Devins heard how Karol Makuch (23) of 25 Grattan Avenue, Claremorris, and Barbara Gadec (29) of 13 Grattan Avenue, Claremorris, had separately misappropriated large sums of social welfare payments.
Judge Mary Devins heard that Makuch and Gadec did this by using the welfare cards of Michael and Bernadetta Lebec, who had returned to Poland prior to the offences for family reasons.

Suspicious
Garda Donal Raftery of Claremorris Garda Station told the court that on August 8 last he called to Ballindine Post Office after he was contacted by social welfare inspector Tony Gavin. Mr Gavin had reported suspicious collections by a woman using a welfare card belonging to Bernadetta Lebec.
Garda Raftery viewed CCTV footage of the woman whom he recognised as Barbara Gadec. While in the post office, Garda Raftery observed Gadec entering the post office and collecting a total of €171.30 on ten occasions under the name of Bernadetta Lebec. Gadec had misappropriated €1,713 in total.
Gadec said that after fellow Polish natives Michael and Bernadetta Lebec returned to Poland for family reasons, she was approached and asked if she would collect the money on a weekly basis. While she did this, the couple returned on a monthly basis to sign on.
Gadec, a mother of two, insisted all she received in exchange for her assistance from the Lebec’s was a few packets of duty-free cigarettes. She said there was a good relationship between the Polish in the area and she had just been helping them out.

Criminal conspiracy
Solicitor Michael Keane described Gadec as a family woman who had shown ‘naivety and stupidity’. “I would acknowledge that rather than believe that she was involved in a criminal conspiracy,” he said.
A bemused Judge Devins replied, “Of course it’s a criminal conspiracy; it’s a criminal conspiracy against the people of the Republic of Ireland.”
In a separate case which was again linked to Michael and Bernadetta Lebec, Karol Makuch of 25 Grattan Avenue, Convent Road, Claremorris, appeared on similar charges arising out of fraudulently claiming €2,419, this time with Michael Lebec’s card.
Garda Raftery told the court he also viewed CCTV footage on August 8 last at Ballindine Post Office of Makuch claiming welfare payments. The defendant later admitted illegitimately claiming the money over a 15-week period.
Garda Donal Raftery said that he did not recognise Makuch on CCTV footage. However, he arrested him after a period of surveillance outside the post office the following week.
Solicitor Michael Keane said Makuch was 23-year-old kitchen porter and who had been in Ireland for three years and had never come to the attention of the Gardaí before.
Defending his two clients, solicitor Michael Keane told Judge Devins that both Gadec and Makuch were part of a large ex-pat community who all helped each other out as best they could.
Mr Keane said Gadec and Makuch had pleaded guilty at the very first opportunity and both individuals had subsequently repaid both sums of money. He added, “They got suckered into this by a couple who took advantage of their better nature. The couple are the real culprits. It’s almost like the drugs trade, except they’re the mules but now they’re in the firing line.”

Respect
Judge Devins intimated she had little sympathy for their situation. “You almost have me in tears here. You’re painting a picture akin to that of ‘Little House on the Prairie’ when you’re describing these Polish ex-pats.”
Mr Keane continued, “Who knows better than the Irish about a self-help group. Of course it’s wrong but it’s very prevalent.” Judge Devins enquired, “Are you suggesting that the Irish community are doing this in other countries?” Mr Keane replied that the practice is ‘rampant’ in every country in the world. “Every government knows it’s rampant,” he said.
Passing judgement Judge Devins acknowledged what she described as an impassioned plea from Mr Keane. She added, “I don’t think it’s entirely well-founded. For a start these emigrants are not living in tenements with no light, no electricity and no running water. These people have benefitted and have been shown respect by the Republic of Ireland. Ms Gadek and Mr Makuch have not returned or given back that respect.”
Judge Devins sentenced Gadec and Makuch to six months in prison each, suspending the final three months for a period of twelve months. Recognisance in the event of an appeal was fixed at €2,400 for both parties, with independent surety fixed at €300.



http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14745:welfare-cheats-conspired-against-the-irish-people&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

TwoShedsJackson

Dey etttt urrrr swans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dubit10

Disgusting but expected.

Rented Mule

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Dey etttt urrrr swans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't type it fast enough .....damn you !!!

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

this thread will end well.

The King of Moo

Two people committed a crime and were caught and punished.

That's good.

My_left_leg

This is the tip of the iceberg I suspect.
Little wonder our sick children are lying on trolleys.
Good to see the courts are getting tough on these parasites.

_feedback_

Anything to add yourself at all OP?!

prinz

My_left_leg wrote: »

This is the tip of the iceberg I suspect..

I suspect it is, but I also suspect that the vast vast vast majority of social welfare scamming is done by Irish citizens.

My_left_leg wrote: »

Little wonder our sick children are lying on trolleys.
Good to see the courts are getting tough on these parasites.

I wonder does you concern stretch to those sick children of law-abiding immigrant parents who are lying on trolleys?

Now if only we could clone Judge Mary Devins and put her on every bench in the land. Sounds like a no-nonsense type.

Badgermonkey

My_left_leg wrote: »

This is the tip of the iceberg I suspect.
Little wonder our sick children are lying on trolleys.

Yeah, Polish scroungers are precisely the ones culpable for chronic financial and logistical mismanagement in the Health Service.

Dermighty

And it probably costs twenty times that much to imprison them :P

Just line them up and shoot them, or better yet send them to a camp with other P.......................oh god I've done it again

CardBordWindow

If you listen to all the scaremongering, Germany more or less owns Ireland now, so the Polish are indirectly screwing over Germany, in retaliation of the invasion of 1939??

hooradiation

My_left_leg wrote: »

Little wonder our sick children are lying on trolleys.

If your children are sick, shouldn't you take them to hospital?

Rhys Essien

Meanwhile TD sees no problem doing a legger with €52,000 worth of ink.
Shur we'll say nothin about.

super_furry

No Irish person has ever committed welfare fraud.

DoesNotCompute

Typical Irish - unwilling to accept responsibility for getting yourselves into the mess you're now in, so you blame the Polish. :P

ejmaztec

super_furry wrote: »

No Irish person has ever committed welfare fraud.

Not even the guy down the road from me who hasn't worked for about twenty years, officially anyway.

Dravokivich

hooradiation wrote: »

If your children are sick, shouldn't you take them to hospital?

Erm... the tolleys the other guy was referring to, are hospital trolleys.

Bad Panda

Thank God they were caught! Now the country can go back to normal.

I'm just glad no Irish person has dared to cheat the welfare system yet.

Nodin

super_furry wrote: »

No Irish person has ever committed welfare fraud.

Sure it goes against the faith of our fathers.

ejmaztec

Bad Panda wrote: »

Thank God they were caught! Now the country can go back to normal.

I'm just glad no Irish person has dared to cheat the welfare system yet.

Foreigners = fraudsters

Natives = cute

prinz

All in all a case well handled by the relevant authorities. Reported well, investigated well, convicted well. The system works :eek:, when it wants to.

MickySticks

I suppose they got free legal aid for court? And tax payers money will now be paying for their stint in prison. Yeah, we really showed them...

Dermighty

Ah it's all a load of ****. I couldn't give a **** about people robbing 4 grand from the government, but I am glad that somebody does and as broken as the country is I'm happy to spend my tax money and let someone else clean up that mess.

Micky Dolenz

Rob a couple of grand from the state and do jail time. Let's spend tens more thousands imprisoning them. Non violent offenders should do community service and plenty of it.

rgmmg

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Typical Irish - unwilling to accept responsibility for getting yourselves into the mess you're now in, so you blame the Polish. :P

Well, not quite. We may magnify non-nationals fraudulent welfare antics in terms of newspaper coverage, but we're all as equal in the eyes of the law.

hooradiation

Dravokivich wrote: »

Erm... the tolleys the other guy was referring to, are hospital trolleys.

I know, but taking this kind of mindless nonsense literally is a new hobby of mine.
Much more entertaining then the alternative.

monkeypants

The King of Moo wrote: »

Two people committed a crime and were caught and punished.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it looks to me like four people committed a crime and two were caught and punished.

godscop

Just deport them back to Poland. Let Poland's taxes take care of them. We have enough Irish scumbags who need a stint in prison.

bullpost

I'd say this has Seanie Fitz and Drummie and the rest of those boys quaking in their boots (ok nicely-tassled loafers).

Get 6 months for defrauding the state of a few grand - what will you get if you're found guilty of defrauded billions

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Rob a couple of grand from the state and do jail time. Let's spend tens more thousands imprisoning them. Non violent offenders should do community service and plenty of it.

fedor.2.

super_furry wrote: »

No Irish person has ever committed welfare fraud.

Damn straight

stephendevlin

Ahh they'll be out in a month..

How much is a night in the joy anyways

Biggins

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Meanwhile TD sees no problem doing a legger with €52,000 worth of ink.
Shur we'll say nothin about.

While very true and you have a point, I would also point out this even bigger one: http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/is-the-eu-presidency-really-worth-e70m-to-ireland-0021162-1
(and little has been said about it! Read the Times report and it mentioned that Ireland is spending absolute millions for 'gifts' to other countries. Other countries has done exactly the same office job for much, much less! Madness!)

Be it social welfare crime, toner (mis)use or the above (and probably more, much more we don't know about), it ALL adds up to (a) a hell of an amount and (b) that is country is leaking money like water through a sieve daily!

booboo88

Dermighty wrote: »

And it probably costs twenty times that much to imprison them :P

Just line them up and shoot them, or better yet send them to a camp with other P.......................oh god I've done it again

Or better yet, get them to cough up all the money and send em packing.....toodalooo mothafcka

Johnny Foreigner

My_left_leg wrote: »

A man and a woman, both Polish and both living in Claremorris, have been sentenced to three months’ imprisonment each for fraudulent social welfare claims of €2,419 and €1,713 respectively last year.
In two separate cases at last week’s sitting in Castlebar District Court, Judge Mary Devins heard how Karol Makuch (23) of 25 Grattan Avenue, Claremorris, and Barbara Gadec (29) of 13 Grattan Avenue, Claremorris, had separately misappropriated large sums of social welfare payments.
Judge Mary Devins heard that Makuch and Gadec did this by using the welfare cards of Michael and Bernadetta Lebec, who had returned to Poland prior to the offences for family reasons.

Suspicious
Garda Donal Raftery of Claremorris Garda Station told the court that on August 8 last he called to Ballindine Post Office after he was contacted by social welfare inspector Tony Gavin. Mr Gavin had reported suspicious collections by a woman using a welfare card belonging to Bernadetta Lebec.
Garda Raftery viewed CCTV footage of the woman whom he recognised as Barbara Gadec. While in the post office, Garda Raftery observed Gadec entering the post office and collecting a total of €171.30 on ten occasions under the name of Bernadetta Lebec. Gadec had misappropriated €1,713 in total.
Gadec said that after fellow Polish natives Michael and Bernadetta Lebec returned to Poland for family reasons, she was approached and asked if she would collect the money on a weekly basis. While she did this, the couple returned on a monthly basis to sign on.
Gadec, a mother of two, insisted all she received in exchange for her assistance from the Lebec’s was a few packets of duty-free cigarettes. She said there was a good relationship between the Polish in the area and she had just been helping them out.

Criminal conspiracy
Solicitor Michael Keane described Gadec as a family woman who had shown ‘naivety and stupidity’. “I would acknowledge that rather than believe that she was involved in a criminal conspiracy,” he said.
A bemused Judge Devins replied, “Of course it’s a criminal conspiracy; it’s a criminal conspiracy against the people of the Republic of Ireland.”
In a separate case which was again linked to Michael and Bernadetta Lebec, Karol Makuch of 25 Grattan Avenue, Convent Road, Claremorris, appeared on similar charges arising out of fraudulently claiming €2,419, this time with Michael Lebec’s card.
Garda Raftery told the court he also viewed CCTV footage on August 8 last at Ballindine Post Office of Makuch claiming welfare payments. The defendant later admitted illegitimately claiming the money over a 15-week period.
Garda Donal Raftery said that he did not recognise Makuch on CCTV footage. However, he arrested him after a period of surveillance outside the post office the following week.
Solicitor Michael Keane said Makuch was 23-year-old kitchen porter and who had been in Ireland for three years and had never come to the attention of the Gardaí before.
Defending his two clients, solicitor Michael Keane told Judge Devins that both Gadec and Makuch were part of a large ex-pat community who all helped each other out as best they could.
Mr Keane said Gadec and Makuch had pleaded guilty at the very first opportunity and both individuals had subsequently repaid both sums of money. He added, “They got suckered into this by a couple who took advantage of their better nature. The couple are the real culprits. It’s almost like the drugs trade, except they’re the mules but now they’re in the firing line.”

Respect
Judge Devins intimated she had little sympathy for their situation. “You almost have me in tears here. You’re painting a picture akin to that of ‘Little House on the Prairie’ when you’re describing these Polish ex-pats.”
Mr Keane continued, “Who knows better than the Irish about a self-help group. Of course it’s wrong but it’s very prevalent.” Judge Devins enquired, “Are you suggesting that the Irish community are doing this in other countries?” Mr Keane replied that the practice is ‘rampant’ in every country in the world. “Every government knows it’s rampant,” he said.
Passing judgement Judge Devins acknowledged what she described as an impassioned plea from Mr Keane. She added, “I don’t think it’s entirely well-founded. For a start these emigrants are not living in tenements with no light, no electricity and no running water. These people have benefitted and have been shown respect by the Republic of Ireland. Ms Gadek and Mr Makuch have not returned or given back that respect.”
Judge Devins sentenced Gadec and Makuch to six months in prison each, suspending the final three months for a period of twelve months. Recognisance in the event of an appeal was fixed at €2,400 for both parties, with independent surety fixed at €300.



http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14745:welfare-cheats-conspired-against-the-irish-people&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Justice was done.
I have just sent Judge Devins a a thank you card, and a bottle of 12 year old Jameson Special Reserve.
What we need to see is more of this; punishing welfare tourism.

Solair

If the Department would get its finger out of whatever orifice they have it stuck in and implement some proper basic photo identification at point of payment then this would just stop over night!

They are basically throwing tax payers' money (IMF, EU and ECB money etc) down the toilet through utter incompetence.

Yet more money's being wasted having to prosecute fraudsters who cheat the system because the system is so open to cheating that it's almost a joke.

If you are claiming social welfare, you should be issued with a payment card that has a photo embedded in the back. Or, better still, your photo should be taken by the social welfare office when you apply, and this should be stored on their network.

When you swipe your payment card, your photo is displayed (in a large format) and the post office person simply compares it with the person who is making the claim.

Job done!

This isn't a massively difficult problem to solve and it's wasting court and Garda resources to leave it so wide open to abuse.

I also don't understand why post offices are paying out cash, it's a huge security risk.

Payment should be electronically transferred to the recipients account, but they should have to present themselves at the post office to have that transaction authorized. This would immediately cut out a whole load of cash-in-transit issues and also help to ensure that money was being paid to the named claimant.

Pensions and disability could simply be paid automatically, (cutting out queues) as there's absolutely no need for these people to sign-on as they're legitimate on-going clients whose status is not going to change.

Some fraudsters went to prison, great. (Costs us circa €100,000/year to keep them there!). Yet, the completely inadequate security system continues to run as normal.

How many trials and pilots have to be run? Just issue damn photo ID cards!!

You can't go into the bank and withdraw money without providing ID, so why should you be able to withdraw large amounts of welfare over the counter without proper ID ?. It's absolute madness.

monkeypants

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

What we need to see is more of this; punishing welfare tourism.

Surely it was the other two who returned to sign on that were guilty of that.

Corholio

Person issues a true news story.

People complain about other true stories.

I feel for ya OP, you can't win.

Dublin_Gunner

Solair wrote: »

If the Department would get its finger out of whatever orifice they have it stuck in and implement some proper basic photo identification at point of payment then this would just stop over night!

Surely even simply having to produce a passport/drivers license/Garda ID matching the welfare card would suffice. This way the current cards could still be used, but MUST be used in conjunction with another form of ID.

monkeypants wrote: »

Surely it was the other two who returned to sign on that were guilty of that.

You'd think so. But then again we never get the orchestrators, only the pawns. Same can be said for drug dealers and trafficers etc. We only ever catch the little guys.

Marcin_diy

we took yerr jobs
we took yerr benefits
we took yerr cars
we fraude yerr social welfare
we took yerr hospital beds and trolleys
we took yerr schools places
we helped yerr road accidents numbers to grow


but.....


u toook ur women

1:1

Solair

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Surely even simply having to produce a passport/drivers license/Garda ID matching the welfare card would suffice. This way the current cards could still be used, but MUST be used in conjunction with another form of ID.

They should just issue new cards, even with the same old swipe technology, that have a picture embedded in to them. Or, as a short term measure, issue simple photo ID cards to accompany the existing ones.

Not absolutely everyone has official photo ID as there's no such requirement in Ireland, so you'd immediately walk into issues with requiring it.

But, there's nothing to stop the Dept. issuing photo ID itself for this specific purpose.

If you sign on in a Welfare Office, they could very easily issue you with a claim card that contained photo ID. It's only a matter of setting up something like what they have in every university campus in the country. You register, they take your photo with a digital camera, a few moments later a secure plastic card pops out of a printer with your photo embedded.

It's neither difficult, or expensive technology to implement and countless off-the-shelf solutions exist.

KeithAFC

Immigrants should not get welfare anyway. So that way they could not cheat the system. This is not surprising though. Thousands of immigrants entering the UK and the ROI and little to no surveillance on them in this regard.

Cee-Jay-Cee

They should have been deported, its now going to cost in the region of €30k to keep them in prison for 3 months, wheres the point in that? They defrauded the state of roughly 4k so lets spend 7 times that punishing them! Why not pay for a one way ticket for them back to their country of origin and bar them from re-entering for 3 years.

Stinicker

feckin greeks polish!

Solair

KeithAFC wrote: »

Immigrants should not get welfare anyway. So that way they could not cheat the system. This is not surprising though. Thousands of immigrants entering the UK and the ROI and little to no surveillance on them in this regard.

Well, if you've worked and paid tax in another country, there's no reason why you should be treated any differently. That's the whole philsophy behind the EU and it would also be highly hypocritical given the number of Irish in the UK in particular who avail of welfare services if we were to suddenly go on a crack down on legitimate immigrants who would be entitled to job seekers.

However, I do think there should be no question of being able to register to claim social welfare unless you've been working here for a reasonable period e.g. 12 months and making PRSI contributions. The same should apply to anyone moving around the EU.

I think the general issue of welfare fraud in Ireland extends FAR beyond immigrant communities. There is simply a crazily insecure system which is allowing payments to be made without adequate security and ID checks. Most of this probably comes down to typical civil service inflexibility. Usually rolling out any new technology in these kinds of scenarios results in massive pay claims and all sorts of obstruction.

I would like to see the minister force something like this through and I would also like to see civil servants actually cooperate in using and rolling out the technology for once in their lives!

Marcin_diy

KeithAFC wrote: »

Immigrants should not get welfare anyway. So that way they could not cheat the system. This is not surprising though. Thousands of immigrants entering the UK and the ROI and little to no surveillance on them in this regard.

You should have no right to comment...
I work here 8years at the moment and own house. If I loose job should I be deported straight away? why? your way of thinking is silly.

stephendevlin

CJC999 wrote: »

They should have been deported, its now going to cost in the region of €30k to keep them in prison for 3 months, wheres the point in that? They defrauded the state of roughly 4k so lets spend 7 times that punishing them! Why not pay for a one way ticket for them back to their country of origin and bar them from re-entering for 3 years.

Isnt that what happens in America if you dont have a visa.. Arrested and on the plane same day. Bye Bye

Jammy Donut

CJC999 wrote: »

They should have been deported, its now going to cost in the region of €30k to keep them in prison for 3 months, wheres the point in that? They defrauded the state of roughly 4k so lets spend 7 times that punishing them! Why not pay for a one way ticket for them back to their country of origin and bar them from re-entering for 3 years.

Totally agree.... One way ticket, **** them out of the country and ban them for 10 years.

Solair

Marcin_diy wrote: »

You should have no right to comment...
I work here 8years at the moment and own house. If I loose job should I be deported straight away? why? your way of thinking is silly.

I don't think very many people would agree with the previous poster.
We need to crack down on fraud! Not blame various groups of people totally unfairly.

KeithAFC

elviscostello wrote: »

So if an immigrant works here for a few years, they should then not be entitled to welfare? Is that what you are saying?

Yes. I think a country should look after its own and if immigrants want to enter any country, they should respect the law and not be allowed to claim welfare. Just my opinion on it.

The Irish people need to look after themselves now more than ever.

johnryano

super_furry wrote: »

No Irish person has ever committed welfare fraud in poland.

fixed your post