esb calling- not with them anymore

u_c_thesecond

Hi

prob not a legal issue but only place in search engine that seemed correct- mods please move if in wrong place.

Basically when we bought our house 2 and a half years ago the woman who lived here closed her esb acc- and we didnt want to go with them so we went with bord gais energy.

But whats really annoying me is a man calls every 2 months from ESB to read the meter even though we are not with them anymore- i send meter readings to bord gais every few months otherwise a bill comes as an estimate.

But this guy calls and hammers the door when no one answers (we have a locked patio and meter is inside it) and leaves slips telling us to call esb as they need to get in to read meter and our account will be estimated otherwise, i have never recieved a bill from them ever and do not have an account with them

I have answered the door to this man before and told him i am not with esb and he leaves. Then 2 months later hes back, and he called at 8.20am one morning when my husband was only off the night shift and woke the house up with his hammering on the patio.

I have called ESB and they are saying theres no account at my address - which i know, The they start their "We are cheaper that bord gais etc" crap- and i get annoyed.

Can anyone give me any advice, i know people might say "Oh its not like he calling every day" but its getting annoying now

jhegarty

ESB networks do the meter reading.

They are still the ones who supply your power , no matter who you pay your bill to.

ScouseMouse

jhegarty wrote: »

ESB networks do the meter reading.

They are still the ones who supply your power , no matter who you pay your bill to.

That's correct. Esb networks own the cables and infrastructure. They read the metres and notify your provider, in your case, bord gais energy.

Then BG issue you with a bill.

MagicSean

Aren't you obliged to have your meter in an accessible spot?

coylemj

MagicSean wrote: »

Aren't you obliged to have your meter in an accessible spot?

In new homes and apartments yes since the 70s or 80s but clearly there are thousands of homes around the country like old houses with stone walls and some older apartment buildings where the meter is inside so access is necessary.

OP, someone has to read your meter so regardless of who does it or which utility you are a customer of, there will always be someone knocking on the door unless you get the place rewired and put the meter in an outside box.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

OP, everything said here is correct. You really owe that meter reader an apology - these people are self-employed contractors trying to do their jobs in reading your meter ultimately for your energy supplier.

mercenary2

yes it is esb supply that reads your meter all equipment are owned by esb supply and esb networks ,and yes you must give him access to the meter to read it..if you build a new house and try ringing airtricity or any other supplier other than esb to get connected you will find you still have to get esb to install and supply your acc. then you switch to other supplier who buys power in bulk from esb.. and passes on a little bit of the savings..to you the customer

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

mercenary2 wrote: »

yes it is esb supply that reads your meter all equipment are owned by esb supply and esb networks ,and yes you must give him access to the meter to read it..if you build a new house and try ringing airtricity or any other supplier other than esb to get connected you will find you still have to get esb to install and supply your acc. then you switch to other supplier who buys power in bulk from esb.. and passes on a little bit of the savings..to you the customer

Wrong! ESB Supply is now Electric Ireland for a start. And they do not read meters and neither do they own the metering equipment. This is all ESB Networks.:rolleyes: Not quite right on the having to switch supplier either but this is the wrong forum to discuss it. Suffice to say ESB Networks supplies and owns the wires and meter to your house while any supply company can run power through them for you to consume. And with any new connection you choose who that is. The supply companies do not just but electricity from ESB but from any energy provider or generator - of which there are many.

coylemj

Rayna Rapid Trapeze wrote: »

Not quite right on the having to switch supplier either but this is the wrong forum to discuss it.

Well since we're into backseat modding, neither is it a forum where people shoud be nitpicking about which arm of the ESB reads meters.....

Rayna Rapid Trapeze wrote: »

Wrong! ESB Supply is now Electric Ireland for a start. And they do not read meters and neither do they own the metering equipment. This is all ESB Networks.:rolleyes:

Marcusm

Rayna Rapid Trapeze wrote: »

Suffice to say ESB Networks supplies and owns the wires and meter to your house while any supply company can run power through them for you to consume. And with any new connection you choose who that is.

Suffice it to say that for someone who is contradicting others, you ave little knowledge of the system of electricity supply. The supply companies do not "run power" anywhere. They have nothing to do either with the generation, transmission or indeed supply of electricity. Their role is to compete by designing packages of electricity consumption, packaging with their products and minimisation of billing costs to try and reduce the overall price to become competitive.

Cedrus

As I understand it, the meter man is self employed and paid per meter. If he doesn't read a meter he doesn't get paid so it is in his interest to be persistant and read all of the meters in his area regardless of which 'supplier' issues the bill or how many customers use the phone or internet to report their meter readings.

Carawaystick

Cedrus wrote: »

As I understand it, the meter man is self employed and paid per meter. If he doesn't read a meter he doesn't get paid so it is in his interest to be persistant and read all of the meters in his area regardless of which 'supplier' issues the bill or how many customers use the phone or internet to report their meter readings.

So the OP has a deal with company A, who subcontract the meter reading to company B and company B outsource this again to C;
OP has no connection to C so.

dub45

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

Hi

prob not a legal issue but only place in search engine that seemed correct- mods please move if in wrong place.

Basically when we bought our house 2 and a half years ago the woman who lived here closed her esb acc- and we didnt want to go with them so we went with bord gais energy.

But whats really annoying me is a man calls every 2 months from ESB to read the meter even though we are not with them anymore- i send meter readings to bord gais every few months otherwise a bill comes as an estimate.

But this guy calls and hammers the door when no one answers (we have a locked patio and meter is inside it) and leaves slips telling us to call esb as they need to get in to read meter and our account will be estimated otherwise, i have never recieved a bill from them ever and do not have an account with them

I have answered the door to this man before and told him i am not with esb and he leaves. Then 2 months later hes back, and he called at 8.20am one morning when my husband was only off the night shift and woke the house up with his hammering on the patio.

I have called ESB and they are saying theres no account at my address - which i know, The they start their "We are cheaper that bord gais etc" crap- and i get annoyed.

Can anyone give me any advice, i know people might say "Oh its not like he calling every day" but its getting annoying now

I have an ongoing similar issue and I think the real point is the behaviour of the meter reader.

A couple of years ago now I was wakened by literally frenetic hammering at my door at 7.45 am. No joking I thought that either the house was on fire or there had been a terrible accident or something. I opened the door to find the meter reader who explained that he knocked so hard becuase some people are a "little deaf". The offical hours for meter readers are apparently 8am to 4 pm so apart from a woeful approach he was actually doing this on his own time.

I complained to ESB networks and they undertook that he would not call to the house again and would simply put in a card so that I could phone in a meter reading. Unfortunately he has called several times since (without the frenetic knocking) and as recently as last Friday at 8.10 a.m.

Irrespective of who the company is actually doing the meter reading it seems perfectly reasonable to expect the people they employ to behave in a reasonable manner and surely that is the real issue in this case?

You should contact ESB networks directly and complain if you feel his behaviour is unacceptable to you.

Cedrus

Carawaystick wrote: »

So the OP has a deal with company A, who subcontract the meter reading to company B and company B outsource this again to C;
OP has no connection to C so.

It's more like Company A buys a delivered package from company B, Company B outsource the meter reading to C, the distribution to company D and the Generation to company E.

Any end user normally only has dealings with company A, but are unfortunately also inconvenienced by, C reading the meter if it is inaccessible, D repairing the overhead lines and digging up their road, and very occasionally by E having a station problem.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm afraid many here are over simplifying the process. Various generators (Powergen, Airtricity, and many Independant Power Producers) generate the electricity and sell it to the Supply Companies (Electric Ireland, BGE, Airtricity etc) who sell it on to the consumer. They pay ESB Networks to provide the means of running it (or getting it) to our homes and businesses. They pay on a price per unit transmitted, or distributed, through the wires owned by ESB Networks (not unlike paying a haulage company to move goods from producer to customer. To measure this usage ESB Networks meters the supply. The Supply Companies also use these meter readings to bill their own customers (rather than having 2 sets of meters!). The Meter reading is actually done by a sub-contractor on behalf of ESB Networks.

MagicSean

Rayna Rapid Trapeze wrote: »

I'm afraid many here are over simplifying the process. Various generators (Powergen, Airtricity, and many Independant Power Producers) generate the electricity and sell it to the Supply Companies (Electric Ireland, BGE, Airtricity etc) who sell it on to the consumer. They pay ESB Networks to provide the means of running it (or getting it) to our homes and businesses. They pay on a price per unit transmitted, or distributed, through the wires owned by ESB Networks (not unlike paying a haulage company to move goods from producer to customer. To measure this usage ESB Networks meters the supply. The Supply Companies also use these meter readings to bill their own customers (rather than having 2 sets of meters!). The Meter reading is actually done by a sub-contractor on behalf of ESB Networks.

I think everyone is overcomplicating the issue. Op if you are a little confused, ESB hire the people that check the meters no matter what company you are with. You are also supposed to have your meter accessable so they won't have to bang on your door. I suggest you do the decent thing and apologise to the man.

dub45

MagicSean wrote: »

I think everyone is overcomplicating the issue. Op if you are a little confused, ESB hire the people that check the meters no matter what company you are with. You are also supposed to have your meter accessable so they won't have to bang on your door. I suggest you do the decent thing and apologise to the man.

Who proclaimed that you are supposed to have your meter accessible?

If a customer submits an accurate reading regularly then why should there be a requirement for a meter read to call other than maybe once a year and surely the customer is entitled to expect the meter reader to behave with a level of courtesy and respect?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

dub45 wrote: »

Who proclaimed that you are supposed to have your meter accessible?

If a customer submits an accurate reading regularly then why should there be a requirement for a meter read to call other than maybe once a year and surely the customer is entitled to expect the meter reader to behave with a level of courtesy and respect?

ESB Networks Terms & Conditions include:(DSO = ESB Networks)

7. Equipment and right of access to premises
All equipment and installations, (other than your installation) belong to the DSO at all times and must be kept at the premises and used in line with our or the DSO’s instructions.
We accept no responsibility for maintaining any equipment.
You must allow DSO authorised personnel, agents or contractors, at all reasonable times and at any time in an emergency, to enter any premises to which electricity is supplied for the purposes of reading, inspecting, de-energising (switching off the supply) or removing the meter or meters, and for all other purposes in connection with supplying electricity. You must also give us similar rights of access.

They must get actual reading as a customer could potentially submit deliberately low readings on a constant basis.

MagicSean

dub45 wrote: »

Who proclaimed that you are supposed to have your meter accessible?

You terms and conditions

dub45 wrote: »

If a customer submits an accurate reading regularly then why should there be a requirement for a meter read to call other than maybe once a year

Because people lie.

dub45 wrote: »

and surely the customer is entitled to expect the meter reader to behave with a level of courtesy and respect?

Sounds like he was doing his job and it was the op that was in the wrong for not having their meter accessable. This is the very reason that they have to be accessable. It's not in the terms and conditions for the fun of it.

questionmark?

OP at the end of the day you pay ESB Networks a standard payment every two months i.e your standing charge.

The system is pretty simple to be fair.

Power Generators: ESB power generation, Airtricity, private operators etc... produce electricity, which is then distributed along infrastructure owned by ESB Networks. Eirgrid ensure that it is distributed to the correct places at the right time and ensure that enough power is called upon to prevent blackouts at peak times like half time on all Ireland Sunday when kettles go on around the country.

The "supplier" simply pays a price per unit of electricity and then charges a higher price per unit to the end customer in order to make a profit.

tl:dr your a customer of ESB Networks like everyone in Ireland and not letting somebody read your meter is pretty poor form. The man is doing his job just let him read the meter, it takes a few seconds.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Close but not quite right. You pay a standing charge to your supplier not ESB Networks. Standing charges vary between suppliers. You pay nothing to ESB Networks. Eirgrid only operate the Transmission system (owned by ESB Networks) and not the Distribution system that includes 110kV and lower until it reaches your home.
You are only a customer of ESB Networks in relation to having your initial service installed or any meter changes. You have zero dealings with ESB in relation to your Electricity Account. Meters are read to charge your supply company. That they use this to charge on to you is just convenience on their part.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Where is the OP in this discussion???

u_c_thesecond

Rayna Rapid Trapeze wrote: »

You really owe that meter reader an apology -.

And why do i owe him an apoligy???

should i apoligise for having a husband who works nights and doesnt appriciate the door been hammered in at 8 in the morning???

Or for buying a house where the meters inside the door- i didnt put the meter there, and my estates rough so i lock my patio door at all times weather im home or not- so should i apoligise for not wanting to be robbed like my neighbours have been

u_c_thesecond

MagicSean wrote: »

I think everyone is overcomplicating the issue. Op if you are a little confused, ESB hire the people that check the meters no matter what company you are with. You are also supposed to have your meter accessable so they won't have to bang on your door. I suggest you do the decent thing and apologise to the man.

for what? i did not put the meter inside the patio door the ESB did!!!:mad:

January

Least your meter wasn't underneath the stairs so you actually had to let someone into your house to read the meter.

dub45

Rayna Rapid Trapeze wrote: »

ESB Networks Terms & Conditions include:(DSO = ESB Networks)

7. Equipment and right of access to premises
All equipment and installations, (other than your installation) belong to the DSO at all times and must be kept at the premises and used in line with our or the DSO’s instructions.
We accept no responsibility for maintaining any equipment.
You must allow DSO authorised personnel, agents or contractors, at all reasonable times and at any time in an emergency, to enter any premises to which electricity is supplied for the purposes of reading, inspecting, de-energising (switching off the supply) or removing the meter or meters, and for all other purposes in connection with supplying electricity. You must also give us similar rights of access.

They must get actual reading as a customer could potentially submit deliberately low readings on a constant basis.

Indeed and you will note that in spite of what some contributors appear to think that the customer "allows" the access and that there is a recognition of reasonable times.

I spoke to ESB Networks as recently as yesterday about this issue and they have no problem in recognising that the customer is entitled to expect that a meter reader calling to a house will call at a reasonable time and behave in a respectful manner to the customer. They accept that banging down a door is not acceptable.

dub45

MagicSean wrote: »

You terms and conditions



Because people lie.



Sounds like he was doing his job and it was the op that was in the wrong for not having their meter accessible. This is the very reason that they have to be accessable. It's not in the terms and conditions for the fun of it.

I suggest that you read the terms and conditions again. There is no requirement to have the meter accessible - in fact such a requirement is simply a physical impossibility for many customers.

MagicSean

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

[/B]

for what? i did not put the meter inside the patio door the ESB did!!!:mad:

Was there a patio there when the house was built? And I very much doubt he just started banging on the door. It's likely he knocked first and you didn't hear him so he knocked louder. And it's not as if you have a sign on your door saying your husband works nights. Do you go out and tell the neighbourhood kids to be quiet when they get loud? Being woken up is something that goes with the territory of working nights. If your hubby cant handle that he shouldn't be working days. The world can't revolve around his unsocial work hours. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. The meter man seems to have done nothing wrong as far as I can see.

MagicSean

dub45 wrote: »

Indeed and you will note that in spite of what some contributors appear to think that the customer "allows" the access and that there is a recognition of reasonable times.

I spoke to ESB Networks as recently as yesterday about this issue and they have no problem in recognising that the customer is entitled to expect that a meter reader calling to a house will call at a reasonable time and behave in a respectful manner to the customer. They accept that banging down a door is not acceptable.

What's unreasonable about 8.20 in the morning? Anyone with a regular job or kids would be up at that time. And knocking loudly is also perfectly reasonable if your first knock can't be heard.

You have to allow them access to the meter. Whatever way you interpret that condition the op didn't comply with it.

MagicSean

dub45 wrote: »

I suggest that you read the terms and conditions again. There is no requirement to have the meter accessible - in fact such a requirement is simply a physical impossibility for many customers.

A physical impossibility? Please elaborate.

dub45

MagicSean wrote: »

Was there a patio there when the house was built? And I very much doubt he just started banging on the door. It's likely he knocked first and you didn't hear him so he knocked louder. And it's not as if you have a sign on your door saying your husband works nights. Do you go out and tell the neighbourhood kids to be quiet when they get loud? Being woken up is something that goes with the territory of working nights. If your hubby cant handle that he shouldn't be working days. The world can't revolve around his unsocial work hours. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. The meter man seems to have done nothing wrong as far as I can see.

What qualifies you to infer how a meter reader might have behaved when you weren't there? What qualifies you to attempt to dictate to a person what they should or shouldn't put up with in the course of how they live their lives?

The meter reader is obviously making other peoples worlds revolve around his or her work schedule. I don't see any reason why any business representative should call to a house before 9 a.m. at the earliest.

IN the case of meter readers for whatever company it would surely seem good business practise in terms of customer consideration to read all those readily accessible meters in newer estates and deal with those which require physical access later in the day.