Oil burner service-a few questions

shane0007

My understanding is normal flexi lines are 5 years and long life are 10 years! I will check...

shane0007

Just got the official ruling.

Flexi hoses life span is 5 years and long life hoses is 10 years.

However, if the boiler is located externally, the flexi hose should be replaced every 5 years and if the boiler is located internally, the flexi hose should be replaced every 2 years.

They should all be inspected annually and replaced immediately if any deterioration is suspected.

DGOBS

Did you visit a judge?

Oftec code of practice, 1-5 years for a flexi (standard type) the manufacturer date codes it for 5 years from manufacture, having had a 2 year old flexi internally leak the day after a service, only to return and lift floor covering and find kero everywhere, I replace them every visit, they are not expensive and would rather not go through that again!

Grant has in the past recommended every 2 years.

Also, you may find the ethanol now being added to fuels may have a dramatic effect on rubber hoses (not to mention plastic oil tanks!)

TPM

DGOBS wrote: »

€90 incl vat, this is inclusive of a nozzle and flexi oil line replacement (included as they should always be changed on every service)

I generally also absorb smaller items, especially for my regular customers, like hyd jack seals, burner/flange o-rings etc.

Also included I generally use a chemical cleaner when required to remove scale build up.

I second this price including the small parts. on a boiler I am servicing for the first time I nearly always change the flexi, and every 2 years after that as that is what a some of the boiler manufacturers recommend (Grant and Worcester are two)

Its amazing how few people realise that the oil tank, filter and pipe are to be checked as part of the boiler service

the culture of deference

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

State on the phone that you will require an emissions print out and the oil pressure check.

You can not service a boiler with a hoover alone.

I saw an add for a guy today offering a service for 50euro.

I phoned him up and asked these questions, and got a sheepish ... ah no I don't do that.

Micky Dolenz

the culture of deference wrote: »

I saw an add for a guy today offering a service for 50euro.

I phoned him up and asked these questions, and got a sheepish ... ah no I don't do that.

Welcome to the world of servicing, where service people who do things by the book are "crooks" for over charging. "shur,the guy on the paper can do it for €50, why can't you?"

JohnnieK

TPM wrote: »

Its amazing how few people realise that the oil tank, filter and pipe are to be checked as part of the boiler service

Even has it on the passport not that they fill them in

shane0007

It would be nice to have a similar regulation and certs system as RGII. I know it would be a money spinner for the powers to be but it would be some sort of regulation and paper trail. Would also need a law to back it up.

TPM

there needs to be something done before everyone actually following oftec gets a bad name. I cant count how many times I have pointed out the problems with boilers and tanks that I have serviced and gotten "the last lad that serviced it didnt find anything wrong" "you are only looking for work" "I wont be getting you again"

and there seem to be more and more people taking up the 40-50 euro ads

shane0007

Easiest thing is to always issue a CD11 and get them to sign it. Then the blind eye is their blind eye and will result in a get out clause for any insurance company to pay up should an issue arise.

TPM

I know and thats what I do. just seems like at this stage (without regulation) being oftec registered seems to be costing me more work than it gets me.

it appears to work well in the UK

shane0007

I understand where you are coming from and most feel the same. Repeat business and recommendations will always come your way when the job is done right. Being OFTEC registered in Ireland at the moment just gives some re-assurance to the client that there is a governing body that you subscribe to and you have the suitable training to be a member of. It is also a reference for you, in that if you unsure of a situation, there is a team behind you that can help. Things will change here but not soon enough. Proper membership certification can only be of benefit and the chancers won't make a career or business of it. You will.

TPM

shane0007 wrote: »

I understand where you are coming from and most feel the same. Repeat business and recommendations will always come your way when the job is done right. Being OFTEC registered in Ireland at the moment just gives some re-assurance to the client that there is a governing body that you subscribe to and you have the suitable training to be a member of. It is also a reference for you, in that if you unsure of a situation, there is a team behind you that can help. Things will change here but not soon enough. Proper membership certification can only be of benefit and the chancers won't make a career or business of it. You will.

agreed, just hard at the moment.
At the end of the day the only way to do a job is correctly

JohnnieK

I am OFTEC trained myself but I never registered (Forgot). I have 8 oil customers so I couldn't justify the joining fee for an organization that's not mandatory based on that.

I really hope the oil industry is regulated over here because the 8 I inherited were no where near safe installations. My only fear would be the CER in all there wisdom would bypass OFTEC and get some amateur like RGII to regulate it, We all know the pull Willy Wilson has in there.

Billy Bunting

€90 incl vat, this is inclusive of a nozzle and flexi oil line replacement (included as they should always be changed on every service)

I generally also absorb smaller items, especially for my regular customers, like hyd jack seals, burner/flange o-rings etc.

Also included I generally use a chemical cleaner when required to remove scale build up.

A few lads questioned that i could make a living charging €65 plus parts, can't see too much of a problem here with my mark up on flexi and nozzle and any other parts supplied, i'm only inclusive to gestures of loyalty.
I can also see that a €50 service could also be possible if the engineer is working along the same lines, really all depends on amount of work and overheads at the end of the day, the tires on my Belingo cost considerably less that those on a Transit.

Being OFTEC registered in Ireland at the moment just gives some re-assurance to the client that there is a governing body that you subscribe to and you have the suitable training to be a member of.

Being Oftec registered could be a good thing unfortunetly there are far too many Oftec registered chances out there who will give the rest of us a bad name, time the trainers decided to do the assesments with closed books, sort out the wheat from the chaf, but at the end of the day they are more concerned about profit.

DGOBS

Trainers get paid for a days work nothing more!
Trainers do not make decisions on open or closed book!
It is Oftec that set the standard for these exams, and I for one done all my gas closed book and think its a much better way to learn in many ways.

Billy Bunting

Trainers do not make decisions on open or closed book!

Ok they don't make that decision, but the practice of returning paper one to the candidate when they hand in paper 2 and so on is a decision made by the trainer, as is the blind eye to the confering.:rolleyes: Its a joke and we all know it, how can anyone have the neck to turn up at a customers claiming to be "Oftec trained" when they know nothing, who's really responcable when they buck up?

dinneenp

I have been following this thread with interest.
I'm living in Lackagh, Galway.
I'm looking for someone to service my boiler, just PM me if interested.
Cheers,
Pa.

DGOBS

[/QUOTE]

Ok they don't make that decision, but the practice of returning paper one to the candidate when they hand in paper 2 and so on is a decision made by the trainer, as is the blind eye to the confering.:rolleyes: Its a joke and we all know it, how can anyone have the neck to turn up at a customers claiming to be "Oftec trained" when they know nothing, who's really responcable when they buck up?[/Quote]

Oftec decided to do the 2 attempts approach, again my agreement on it is not in question, they specify it

But I do fully expect my candidates to do it themselves with no assistance, and I turn a blind eye to nothing! I am sure anyone I trained can vouch for that

Other trainers/centres I am not so sure about and have heard of some very fusions practices, personally I believe qualifications are earned and not paid for!

Billy Bunting

I believe qualifications are earned and not paid for!

Agreed.

So the pass rate ain't 100% in your class, bet its close though!

the culture of deference

dinneenp wrote: »

I have been following this thread with interest.
I'm living in midlands.
I'm looking for someone to service my boiler, just PM me if interested.
Cheers,
Pa.

I'm living in midlands.

I'm looking for someone to service my boiler, PM me if interested, but looking for someone who will do exactly as DGOBS or shane0007 have said.

DGOBS

Well, I don't usually teach Oftec, but on occasion where I have, given the format, as long as the candidate study's and works hard there should be no reason they don't pass, the course is after all designed to teach them. (although cant see how it can be covered in 3 days!)

Give the corse cost, most I have seen work their butt off, so the pass rate is usually high, no-one is suggesting they come out of th trap knowing everything about the industry, but should have been given enough practical knowledge to begin in a safe and proper manner (such is the hope)

I am not suggesting the system is perfect, far from it, and some centers seem to be abusing it, but unless the industry decides on a better route (maybe even regulation) or moves towards apprenticeships what option is out there? I mean some start servicing oil boilers with no training at all!

Maybe an idea would be for Oftec to do as someone suggested, and have a star rating for each technician, your trade cert, time serviced, etc old count towards each star, so the likes of a qualified plumber with all courses up to date ect could be acknowledged

JohnnieK

DGOBS wrote: »

Trainers get paid for a days work nothing more!
Trainers do not make decisions on open or closed book!
It is Oftec that set the standard for these exams, and I for one done all my gas closed book and think its a much better way to learn in many ways.

I have no issue with open book exams, I for one could not possibly remember every single thing that is in the is813 and I refer to it when i am not sure of something.
Issues I have is unskilled people sitting the exams, question papers with a mark clearly on them indicating the answer and instructors helping students. If you can't answer a question with the book in front of you then you should be shown the door.

Don't know what other's opinions are on this, but I am not a computer and couldn't possibly remember everything in it.

shane0007

I can just picture it, a surgeon just about to perform an operation and he says "Nurse Ratchet, could you be a doll and open that manual there and just check to see if the patient needs to be on their front or back for this procedure?"

Just kidding but exams should really all be closed book. It eliminates the people who pass after numerous attempts and there are no more options to get it wrong. IS813 is not that big and neither are OFTEC's books. Once the basics are learned, along with frequent use, the majority is easily remembered but more importantly understood.

DGOBS

I totally argee with unskilled/non-trades not being allowed to sit these papers. I also disagree with non plumbers holding a GID as it is an installers certificate, non plumbers should have a technicians status only, this also applies to Oftec.

But these decisions are made via CER and Oftec

Open book for Oftec, the way it's set up at the minute is nearly a must, not sure about the 2nd attempt set up, but with 100% only pass, also makes things a little unrealistic given the questions and the format.

As for Gas, 5 years back it was closed book, and I honestly think you learned more for it, but it was an 80% pass rate, questions weren't multiple choice, they were long handed open questions, like, name 7 primary symptoms of CO poisoning and such like that, or asked you to explain existing soundness testing procedures etc. and seemed to separate the heat from the chaff.

But, you could drive a truck through some of IS813, and a very interperative document for a standard.

I don't want to memorise my IS813, EN1949 or IS820 that's because I have a life, if I need to know something I know how to find the answer.

DGOBS

Hey, when did you get one of those Gary!
See our therapy sessions are starting to work, thanks for sharing

I did my OFTEC with Worcester Bosch, they gave me the answers and sandwiches:D

I'v retired from oil now as it smells and I'm crap at it, I had a shopping centre in Portlaoise evacuated because of black smoke, during a service, I had problems with the air on some commercial Viessmann which sent huge amounts of black smoke (again) billowing in to the air, it was very impressive:) and my favourite job, I got chased round my van by a farmer with a bucket of **** because he hated my accent and also I stated to him that I was OFTEC regerstered so I could not service his sooty flueless indoor boiler that was outdoors as it was a very dangerous installation, he threw the bucket at my head:( you don't get any of that with gas.

DGOBS

DGOBS wrote: »

Hey, when did you get one of those Gary!
See our therapy sessions are starting to work, thanks for sharing

Not so much of having a life, more that I'm just far to lazy.

Micky Dolenz

shane0007 wrote: »

I can just picture it, a surgeon just about to perform an operation and he says "Nurse Ratchet, could you be a doll and open that manual there and just check to see if the patient needs to be on their front or back for this procedure?"

Just kidding but exams should really all be closed book. It eliminates the people who pass after numerous attempts and there are no more options to get it wrong. IS813 is not that big and neither are OFTEC's books. Once the basics are learned, along with frequent use, the majority is easily remembered but more importantly understood.

I disagree. I have a copy of IS813 and IS820 with me while working and I'll check them if I am unsure about something. I'd know must of the stuff off hand as I deal with it everyday but for random things, you can't expect someone to know it.

I do however agree that the eligibility of exams is a joke. What ever happened to not be able to sit these exams with a Craft cert of some related industry?