Low electricity users hit with extra charge

Chuck Stone

Can someone tell me why electricity isn't automatically cheaper off peak?

At present the electricity suppliers have to have the resources for a massive surge in energy use at certain times.

If people thought they'd be charged less for putting on a tumble dry at 12.30 am they would and there wouldn't be a need for such residual supply.

I'll start a thread in consumer issues if there is no reasonable answer.

Biggins

eth0 wrote: »

So what they do about it is encourage people to use more electricity so they have to burn more fuel?

...And thus bit by bit with each one, increase Ireland's carbon limit output to some extent?
...For which we can be fined on in Europe if we go over a certain limit?

CardBordWindow

Time to wire up the hamster wheel!

Son Of A Vidic

Biggins wrote: »

Some are afraid to show they have a backbone - they fear our government might next, tax that too!

But only if they can find it and I suspect that will prove to be quite difficult for them.

CardBordWindow

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can someone tell me why electricity isn't automatically cheaper off peak?

At present the electricity suppliers have to have the resources for a massive surge in energy use at certain times.

If people thought they'd be charged less for putting on a tumble dry at 12.30 am they would and there wouldn't be a need for such residual supply.

I'll start a thread in consumer issues if there is no reasonable answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nagdcULlAk

Biggins

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can someone tell me why electricity isn't automatically cheaper off peak?

At present the electricity suppliers have to have the resources for a massive surge in energy use at certain times.

If people thought they'd be charged less for putting on a tumble dry at 12.30 am they would and there wouldn't be a need for such residual supply.

I'll start a thread in consumer issues if there is no reasonable answer.

Technically it's probably possible but a wide-scale change of meters might be required to have clocks with record whats used and at what time exactly (which can be further adjusted correctly and not tampered by other means by a member of the public) ?

Paparazzo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

And the same company now employs a foreign thug company to sort out its customer debts.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/esb-uses-uk-debt-collectors-as-130000-in-arrears-on-bills-3029085.html

Yes, scandalous that they employ foreigners :rolleyes:
That's up there with "they took our jobs". And if you think this is a disgrace, wait till they're sold and are a private company.

eth0

Biggins wrote: »

Technically it's probably possible but a wide-scale change of meters might be required to have clocks with record whats used and at what time exactly (which can be further adjusted correctly and not tampered by other means by a member of the public) ?

The meters already exist but they'd probably want us to pay another 200e fixed tax that everyone with a house has to pay supposedly for the meter. While of course the meters are imported from Chickity China land for about 20e - the rest goes to TD's friends and the troika.

We should organise a mass switching-on of heavy appliances at around 7pm just as a way of telling these fckers to cop themselves on. Better than calling up Joe "Sure aren't we all strugglin" Duffy and forgetting about it

maggy_thatcher

booboo88 wrote: »

Its for the people who use less thqn 2units a day

Are actually for real? So the pc/laptop you have plugged in while on boards wont use any electricity, nor the charger for your phone, Im assuming you dont shower or wash your clothes,like, ever:rolleyes:
Why do people always assume its just the heating/cooking/lighting that uses leccy

Last summer, I used approximately 7 units a day. That's with an electric cooker, and an electric pumped shower (though it is gas, not electrically heated), and with 4 people in the house. I could well imagine that if somebody were to take a 3 week holiday in the summer as well as having a gas cooker instead of an electric, it could very easily slip into the high charge zone on occasion. I'm with Airtricity, not ESB so this particular charge doesn't affect me (yet), but if it were, it would certainly cause me to keep a close eye on it.

Things like phone/laptop chargers use very little power in the grand scheme of things.

hatrickpatrick

Paparazzo wrote: »

Exactly. If a phone company or any other service provider put up their charges would their be a thread about it?
Change provider and stop moaning

If they introduced a new charge to circumvent those who save by using their phone less, then yes, yes there would.

hatrickpatrick

To anyone defending this on grounds of it only hitting holiday homes etc: If you have a holiday home and you're not currently using any electricity in it, then you shouldn't have to pay any electricity bills for it. Simple as.
An electricity bill is NOT a tax, it's a price you pay for receiving a product. If you're not using that product then there's no excuse for charging you for it.

This is absolutely moronic.
If they want to introduce a subscription charge or something they should be honest about it and say it like it is.

woodoo

Is that not what the standing charge is for. If you are connected you are still paying money to the ESB anyway even if no electricity is being used.

midlandsmissus

I just got a 200 euro bill for the last two months. :mad: 1 person in small flat. Surely that can't be right?

maggy_thatcher

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I just got a 200 euro bill for the last two months. :mad: 1 person in small flat. Surely that can't be right?

It depends - how is your flat heated? Often small flats use electric storage heaters - perhaps the most inefficient/expensive ways to heat anything (esp. if you don't have Night-Rate electricity).

Also - check if it's an estimated reading, vs a true reading.

Paparazzo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To anyone defending this on grounds of it only hitting holiday homes etc: If you have a holiday home and you're not currently using any electricity in it, then you shouldn't have to pay any electricity bills for it. Simple as.
An electricity bill is NOT a tax, it's a price you pay for receiving a product. If you're not using that product then there's no excuse for charging you for it.

This is absolutely moronic.
If they want to introduce a subscription charge or something they should be honest about it and say it like it is.

This might sound crazy, but if it's costing too much, change provider. End of problem. This is a complete non story. O2 have shíte data plans now. Is there an After Hours thread on it? No, you don't sign up with them. Doesn't matter a shíte that ESB are semi state. The market is open and there's other companies you can go to.

OctavarIan

gbee wrote: »

Lower your carbon footprint by using less electricity and we'll charge you more anyway.

Anyone who worries about their carbon footprint and uses less than two units wouldn't be with ESB anyway.

Nothingbetter2d

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I just got a 200 euro bill for the last two months. :mad: 1 person in small flat. Surely that can't be right?

phone them up and give them a meter reading.... i bet your newly adjusted bill will be alot smaller

midlandsmissus

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

It depends - how is your flat heated? Often small flats use electric storage heaters - perhaps the most inefficient/expensive ways to heat anything (esp. if you don't have Night-Rate electricity).

Also - check if it's an estimated reading, vs a true reading.

Hey oh great maybe you can help me with it, yeah I do have storage heaters, and definitely don't think I was using them right,

Never had them before, I would often just put them on for half an hour like around 9pm, but I just rang ESB to make a payment and she said the night tariff comes in at 11pm, so are you meant to switch them on after 11 and leave them on all night?

Midnight Sundance

I'm not always in my house. What would on average use 2 units a day? If you have fridge and freezer on would that be enough?? I've a sky box on standby also.

So if you are on holiday and everything is turned off, will they charge you for not using electricity for the "two weeks" your away not using it even tho perhaps you're using over 2 units the rest of the time???

maggy_thatcher

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Hey oh great maybe you can help me with it, yeah I do have storage heaters, and definitely don't think I was using them right,

Never had them before, I would often just put them on for half an hour like around 9pm, but I just rang ESB to make a payment and she said the night tariff comes in at 11pm, so are you meant to switch them on after 11 and leave them on all night?

Usually there are two power lines into a storage heater - one that's wired into the night-rate meter, and one that's connected to the standard circuit. You'd usually turn off the day-rate one, unless it's really cold, and just have the night rate one on.

See Wikipedia for more details.

If you're cold in the evening, personally I think you're better off with getting a regular fan heater or similar for quick boosts rather than trying to use a storage heater in boost mode - they're generally pretty slow at heating a room, though things may have changed (it's been many years since I've used one).

Some countries (e.g. Germany) have banned storage heaters in new builds, as they are very inefficient. The BER cert for your flat is probably down at 'F' or 'G' as a direct result of having them.

maggy_thatcher

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

I'm not always in my house. What would on average use 2 units a day? If you have fridge and freezer on would that be enough?? I've a sky box on standby also.

So if you are on holiday and everything is turned off, will they charge you for not using electricity for the "two weeks" your away not using it even tho perhaps you're using over 2 units the rest of the time???

A fridge/freezer is probably close to two units a day alright (esp. if you open/close the door a few times).

The charge is averaged out over the 2 months - so if have it at zero units for 2 weeks, then the rest of the time has to be 2.6 units/day (2 units a day works out at approx 122 units a bill - if you're away for 14 days, then you have to do 122 units in 47 days -- 2.6 units/day).

Mr.Biscuits

Mate gave me an old electric heater there in the winter. Real heavy dute one that looked like a radiator, only larger. Needed it as the place we just moved into had no central heating due to gas pipes having burst and needing replacing.

Anyway, two months later our two-month bill came in and I nearly passed out when I opened it: €1100!

I phoned up and went Dizzee Rascal down the line. No way could we have used it. So the guy asked me what I was using and I mentioned the old electric radiator and he told me to switch everything off in the house and leave the heater on for two full hours exactly (taking a meter reading before and after) - which I did and phoned him with the numbers - and the bloody thing was only costing €3.20 per hour!! :eek:

We had it on at least five hours a day for those two months!

tl:dr - Don't use those old electric heaters - turns out those Energy Ratings actually do mean something afterall.

gbee

BTW, have many noticed that the bills are not two months anymore.

Kirby

Being charged for NOT using electricity. I see.

Atleast we don't have a eh... leaving town tax.

Oh wait......

Chuck Stone

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can someone tell me why electricity isn't automatically cheaper off peak?

I don't mean to be pedantic at all but I'm going to be completely pedantic here and say that 'shite naver' is not really automatic as per the Q. above.

CardBordWindow wrote: »

nightsaver.vid.youtube

AFAIK shite naver elec involves a greater standing charge so it only suits heavy users.

Biggins answer, that a more technical meter would be needed, is probably the answer that makes most sense.

It just seems fantastically stupid to have to have the capacity for peak time use which I presume would be between 5pm & 9pm when lower off peak prices would surely reduce the need for standby power generation which would = lower costs and lower bills.

Another thing, the bastards don't pay people decent feed in tariffs for micro and small scale generation which seems to make sense in the move toward energy independence.

Christ I'm getting pissed off thinking about it.. :mad:

OneArt

Every time I see a thread like this I feel just that little bit better I don't live in Ireland anymore.

I'm starting to think maybe South Africa wasn't such a bad place if you don't mind the gun crimes...

Sonnenblumen

the groutch wrote: »

it will be mostly 2nd homes or holiday homes effected, it's almost impossible to live on less than 2 units a day in a property

Why so? perhaps a fat cat celtic tiger energy burning bloated pig might struggle. But a modest house well insulated with a highly efficient energy consumption not so.

I hope this price is challenged, it does seem to penalise the wisdom of low energy users (and no not holiday home dwellers. I read in the Irish Times today a spokesman for ESB explained a 4 x 60 Watt bulbs would consume 1 Unit in 3 hours. Last time I checked 1 Unit = 1 KWhr?

BTW I use 3 watt LED lighting which consumes virtually no electricity. Are consumers like me now to be penalised for investing in energy efficient lighting, appliances etc?

How is ESB incurring losses in energy efficient homes? They have the most expensive tariffs, standing charges etc. More bolloxology from a fat semi-state which has been pumped by mad CER regulations!!:mad:

Degag

eth0 wrote: »

The meters already exist but they'd probably want us to pay another 200e fixed tax that everyone with a house has to pay supposedly for the meter. While of course the meters are imported from Chickity China land for about 20e - the rest goes to TD's friends and the troika.

We should organise a mass switching-on of heavy appliances at around 7pm just as a way of telling these fckers to cop themselves on. Better than calling up Joe "Sure aren't we all strugglin" Duffy and forgetting about it

The first meter exchange at a property is free.

GreeBo

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

BTW I use 3 watt LED lighting which consumes virtually no electricity.

Not that I agree with it, but dont you have a fridge and a kettle and an alarm and a television and a freezer and a digital box and a mobile phone etc etc?

Chuck Stone

eth0 wrote: »

TWe should organise a mass switching-on of heavy appliances at around 7pm just as a way of telling these fckers to cop themselves on.

That's a bloody good idea.

If everyone turned on the kettle + tumble dryer + immersion heater + washing machine at exactly 7pm we could make a point.

How's about a facebook campaign?