Seals shot in Tramore

Sparks

From the Journal.ie:

Two seals found shot at Tramore beach

One of the injured seals at Tramore Beach
Image: Irish Seal Sanctuary

TWO SEALS WERE found dying from bullet wounds on Tramore Beach in Waterford over the past two days.

The Irish Seal Sanctuary said the two seals were “left for dead” when they were found and attended to by the Waterford SPCA and local vets.

The extent of their injuries were “horrific” and they had to be “humanely euthanised”.

The first seal discovered was a mature bull who had been shot in the head with what appears to be a .22 bullet. The sanctuary said that the shooting was illegal.

“Had this been an authorised shooting under license from the NPWS it would have been shot with a weapon capable of killing it outright,” the sanctuary explained in a statement.

Fishermen in the area are calling for a cull of seals but the sanctuary said that whoever is responsible is acting “against the interests of all responsible fishermen and firearms certificate holders”.

No-one can condone such a cruel and illegal act, exposing the public to a dying seal on a public beach is certainly not the way to achieve public support for fishermen’s interests.

The Irish Seal Sanctuary works with fishermen’s organisations in an attempt to resolve conflicts between fishermen and seals. It has never opposed the properly authorised and licensed killing of individual seals, carried out in the authorised manner.

And from broadsheet.ie:

Meanwhile, In Tramore


Two seals were discovered on Tramore Beach, Co Waterford (above) during the past 24 hours with gunshot wounds.

From Irish Seal Sanctuary

The Irish Seal Sanctuary was horrified to learn that adult grey seals were coming ashore dying from bullet wounds to their heads. The first, a mature bull seal had been shot with what appears to be a .22 bullet to the head. Had this been an authorised shooting under license from the NPWS [National Parks and Wildlife Service] it would have been shot with a weapon capable of killing it outright.

rabbit assassin

Bring back hanging :mad:! I hope to god whoever did that is caught and rots in a cell for the rest of their lives
:mad::mad::mad:

meathstevie

To me it looks like a gob****e who shouldn't have a gun up to stupidity. As mentioned in the article NPWS will authorise culls if convinced of the necessity and proper calibers will have to be used, judging by the size of a seal and the considerable amount of fat under the skin I suppose that shouldn't be much less than .223 or big diameter shot magnum cartridges.

rabbit assassin

But surely the NPWS would have removed the animal and disposed of the remains correctly????

fenris

Hopefully the round is intact and can provide ballistic information, assuming that this will be pursued.

The next time it could be a diver or a surfer.

meathstevie

fenris wrote: »

Hopefully the round is intact and can provide ballistic information, assuming that this will be pursued.

The next time it could be a diver or a surfer.

I'd beg to differ, headshots don't happen by chance. It takes some level of skill so you can safely say they were deliberate acts and not carelessly discharged shots.

Sparks

meathstevie wrote: »

Sparks, don't really know what this has to do with hunting.

It's a heads-up for bad PR incoming, nobody's suggesting that decent hunters did this.

meathstevie

Sparks wrote: »

It's a heads-up for bad PR incoming, nobody's suggesting that decent hunters did this.

Got you Sparks, corn on certain mills etc etc... .As a hunter who tends to pay quite some attention to do things by the book I hope this matter gets the full attention from the proper authorities but I'm not keeping my hopes up for results. Ultimately ( that's if it actually was a .22 ) that sort of firearm is very common and I doubt it that balistic comparison caracteristics for each and every rifled barrel ever sold in Ireland are kept on a database.

garv123

fenris wrote: »

Hopefully the round is intact and can provide ballistic information, assuming that this will be pursued.

The next time it could be a diver or a surfer.

Watching a bit too much CSI are we?




As i said in another thread about it, probably a mod on the rifle and subs and no one would even hear whats going on.

Absolute disgrace.

Spunk84

are they protected?

declan1980

Absolutely ****ing disgraceful

It wasn't me!

Yes, seals are protected species. They can be shot under licence from NPWS in the event of damages.

rabbit assassin

wouldnt be a very difficult shot if they were alongside a boat or were hanging round the harbour.
.22 could have done that at close range, hopefully further investigation will reveal what calibre and hopefully whoever did it will be caught

Ronnie Beck

what would the punishment be if convicted of an offense such as this. A fine? Didn't they bring in prison sentences in the north for wildlife crimes.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/jail-warning-for-wildlife-crimes-16038056.html

fenris

meathstevie wrote: »

I'd beg to differ, headshots don't happen by chance. It takes some level of skill so you can safely say they were deliberate acts and not carelessly discharged shots.

Headshot first time maybe, blasting away until you run dry maybe not so much.

If the seal is in the water then the only shot is likely to be a head shot as only the head is presented - just like a diver, which looks very like a seal or lobster pot buoy.

There have always been clowns taking pot shots out to sea off of the cliffs and coves in the Tramore area, some of the older sub aqua could tell you in more detail of having to dive and or wave visibly when pot shots were incoming particularly near Newtown Cove.

juice1304

meathstevie wrote: »

fenris wrote: »

Hopefully the round is intact and can provide ballistic information, assuming that this will be pursued.

The next time it could be a diver or a surfer.

I'd beg to differ, headshots don't happen by chance. It takes some level of skill so you can safely say they were deliberate acts and not carelessly discharged shots.

I would imagine the hole in that seals head is from a captive bolt gun, looks a bit big for a .22

Cass

Most likely. They said the seals were humanely put down after being found.

bazza888

they wouldnt be that tame to get close enough to use a bolt gun would they!?

Cass

Bolt gun, rifle, pistol. Whatever was used i would imagine it was the cause of the hole.

Chiparus

One person got a suspended custodial sentence for shooting a seal in Dunmore east.

Ronnie Beck

bazza888 wrote: »

they wouldnt be that tame to get close enough to use a bolt gun would they!?

I'd say they were half dead lying on the beach. An animal that size at range with a .22 could have been lying there all night injured before it was found.

Longranger

A salmon fisherman(draft netting) used to do this up my way a few years ago(prick) but he got his! He didn't even have a licence for the .22 LONG RIFLE:MAD: that he was using. I saw him at it while shooting duck on the foreshore. A bit of "gentle" persuasion from the local gardai sorted him out, but this line of behavior can't be let go.

fallowbuck

Very little skill needed to shoot a seal in the head. on many occasions I have brought one as close as a foot to me they are not the slightest bit shy when you wave a freshly caught mackeral in front of them. A lovely animal shame to see this happen.

pheasntstalker

:mad::mad: i hope whoever done this gets whats coming to them,that is disgracefull, why:(:confused:

Hibrion

I heard a lad in a gun shop one day saying you should shoot seals on sight when out fishing and he kept a .308 in the boot for it. I thought he was taking the piss, but maybe not. This is terrible IMHO!

Birdnuts

A bull Grey Seal is a massive animal weighing up to a tonne(you should see the size of the boyo in the National History museum!!). Thats why licences to cull seals come with strict conditions which include specified calibers etc.. Whoever did this was an utter gobsh*te who will hopefully feel the full force of the law.

TriggerPL

this has been going on for years , every once in a while it ends up on the news . and fishermen are never far away from the blame .

alot of fishermen blame the seals for fish stock been low , and i can see there point when ya see an island with a thousand seals beside your fishing waters .

but no one can condone this type of crap .

cookimonster

TriggerPL wrote: »

this has been going on for years , every once in a while it ends up on the news . and fishermen are never far away from the blame .

alot of fishermen blame the seals for fish stock been low , and i can see there point when ya see an island with a thousand seals beside your fishing waters .

but no one can condone this type of crap .

Afraid TriggerPL is right this is not the first seal shooting to happen, it is very common, it just goes unnoticed.............

Cass

Thread cleaned and re-opened.

This topic will come up in some form or another so it's best to put it out there for discussion/viewing. Any comments about possible guilty parties are best kept to yourselves. Stay on topic or refrain from posting.

Further posts off topic or of an accussational nature will be removed, and infractions issued. There will be no further warnings on the matter. Anyone with any issues use either the report post function or contact the mods via PM.

rowa

This is a disgraceful incident , the likes of this and the other crimes commited in the past few days with legally held firearms and splashed across the papers etc will bring nothing but bad luck our way.
Stand by for a joe fluffy special on rte radio.

Ronnie Beck

Its not the seals they should be shooting if they want to improve their fish stocks. It's over-fishing and the leasing of our waters to unregulated foreign vessels in return for higher beef quotas and the likes that has caused the collapse of our fisheries. Fishermen like alot of other people in this country just have to take another kick in the balls from the government and former governments. No amount of shooting seals with a rifle legally or otherwise will make a bit of difference.

4gun

Because we have no direct contact with seals and they do not impact on our livelyhoods its easy for us to judge
remember farmers use the same excuse to allow us to hunt deer, rabbits... foxes

pancuronium

The only word that comes to mind is "Bastards" I hope they catch whoever is responsible that’s disgraceful!!!

Sparks

It gets worse. From TheJournal.ie:

Dolphin and seal found dead on Waterford beach

A DOLPHIN AND a seal have been found dead on a Waterford beach, days after two seals died after being shot on the same beach.

The wounds to the two animals found on Tramore Beach yesterday are believed to be consistent with gunshot wounds.

A spokesperson for the Irish Seal Sanctuary said that the deaths appear to be an illegal cull and called on the regulatory authorities to carry out post-mortems on the animals to determine the exact cause of death. Some fisherman in the area have called for a cull of seals.

All marine mammals are protected under European law, and Ireland’s territorial waters are a declared whale and dolphin sanctuary.

“We’re working with the fisheries industry to try to resolve this,” Johnny Woodlock of the Irish Seal Sanctuary told TheJournal.ie.

“We’re not against a properly regulated cull but it’s the guy who goes out with a shotgun and takes potshots, that’s what we’re against”.

The two seals found earlier this week had to be euthanised after they were found with “horrific” injuries on Tramore Beach.

A number of groups, including the Irish Wildlife Trust, the Irish Whale and Dolphin Group and the Waterford SPCA are monitoring the situation.

Birdnuts

4gun wrote: »

Because we have no direct contact with seals and they do not impact on our livelyhoods its easy for us to judge
remember farmers use the same excuse to allow us to hunt deer, rabbits... foxes

If its done legally and competently then thats fine - clearly that was not the case in this incident. The fact that another seal and a dolphin have turned up in the same area suggests we could be dealing with something altogether more sinister!!

Vegeta

People have questioned why this thread is on the hunting section. Personally I think it is a good way to show our solidarity against this type of action. I struggle to think of a word to describe how awful this is.

It is indefensible. If a farmer is having an issue with deer then someone applies for a license and takes care of it legally. That same avenue was open with respect to the seals.

323

4gun wrote: »

Because we have no direct contact with seals and they do not impact on our livelyhoods its easy for us to judge
remember farmers use the same excuse to allow us to hunt deer, rabbits... foxes

Agree, seeing seals daily since childhood, never seen let alone shoot a fox till I was over 20, could not initially figure out the farmers attitude to the fox.
Can't condone this in any way. But remember there used to be a bounty on these same as the Fox, as a kid passed no remarks on seeing a dead ones on the beach shot for the bounty. Peoples attitudes did not change overnight by protecting them, but thankfully did change surprisingly quickly. As such, believe this behavour is very rare indeed nowadays.

Unfortunately this will be used as another club to beat genuine sporting firearms owners.
In the not too distant future I honestly believe you will see threads just like this about...... 2 cute little fox's killed illegally.

fallowbuck

4gun wrote: »

Because we have no direct contact with seals and they do not impact on our livelyhoods its easy for us to judge
remember farmers use the same excuse to allow us to hunt deer, rabbits... foxes

Very True.

Ronnie Beck

There's a difference between foxes and seals.A cull on foxes is effective as they are the only predator to really threaten lambs. A cull on seals is ineffective as another predator such as dolphins, sharks, porpoise to name just a few will take their place. It would be like only shooting foxes if wolves, coyotes and big cats roamed about the country. You'd be wasting your time.

Birdnuts

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

There's a difference between foxes and seals.A cull on foxes is effective as they are the only predator to really threaten lambs. A cull on seals is ineffective as another predator such as dolphins, sharks, porpoise to name just a few will take their place. It would be like only shooting foxes if wolves, coyotes and big cats roamed about the country. You'd be wasting your time.

I think the main problem with seals is the odd rogue individual that learns how to raid lobster pots or damage certain fishing gear. These individuals can be identified and under the current licencing system dealt with by a licensed and competent individual. As someone mentioned earlier, the wider issue of problems with fish-stocks in recent decades can be easily traced to the door of foreign factory ships, illegal drift netting, pollution, arterial drainage etc.

Ronnie Beck

Birdnuts wrote: »

I think the main problem with seals is the odd rogue individual that learns how to raid lobster pots or damage certain fishing gear. These individuals can be identified and under the current licencing system dealt with by a licensed and competent individual. As someone mentioned earlier, the wider issue of problems with fish-stocks in recent decades can be easily traced to the door of foreign factory ships, illegal drift netting, pollution, arterial drainage etc.

I agree and alot of trawlers will carry a shotgun on board for those seals who have learned where they can regularly get an easy meal. I can understand that as its having a direct effect on a catch and they damage gear etc. but taking pop shots from the shore at seals with .22 is just cruel and pointless causing only the slow death of a few seals who may never go near any nets. I really hope these people aren't doing it for sport and that they are just frustrated fishermen.

It's a political issue at the end of the day but thats a rant for another thread.

robertpatterson

Im sorry but i dont see how ayone can tell if it was done under a licemce or not?
If it was done under a licence then fair play its the same as anyone shooting an animal to protect their crop(in this case fish)
If it wasnt then the full weight of the law should be brought against them the sae way as if it was an animal on land
I dont know how anyone can look at a hole and say it was made with a .22,.223.or a.308
Just because theyre cute doesnt mean theyre not killers

Birdnuts

robertpatterson wrote: »

Im sorry but i dont see how ayone can tell if it was done under a licemce or not?
If it was done under a licence then fair play its the same as anyone shooting an animal to protect their crop(in this case fish)
If it wasnt then the full weight of the law should be brought against them the sae way as if it was an animal on land
I dont know how anyone can look at a hole and say it was made with a .22,.223.or a.308
Just because theyre cute doesnt mean theyre not killers

I presume that the ISS checked with the Dept of Marine and NPWS etc. on whether any licences were issued recently in the area(and who got them) before they issued the statement, since they also stated that they have no problem with the legal cull of seals under licence.

4gun

Birdnuts wrote: »

If its done legally and competently then thats fine - clearly that was not the case in this incident. The fact that another seal and a dolphin have turned up in the same area suggests we could be dealing with something altogether more sinister!!

my post was edited so is now out of context,there should be another line before whats posted

for the record I don't agree with what done no more that I agree with lamping deer. but my original post said that I can understand the frustration of fisherman when dealing with seals eating their catch
If this is some prick shooting them for the "crack" since it now include a dolphin , the I think the punishment should include a ball of his own excrement

thrilledskinny

I give up faith in humanity when I read something like this, what a disgraceful storey for out country, who supposedly cherish wild life.
Absolute disgrace, no reason is good enough to do this to a helpless animal !!
An absolute disgrace,
Thank god for the wspca n vets who could help these animals die in some peace

4gun

Vegeta wrote: »

People have questioned why this thread is on the hunting section. Personally I think it is a good way to show our solidarity against this type of action. I struggle to think of a word to describe how awful this is.

It is indefensible. If a farmer is having an issue with deer then someone applies for a license and takes care of it legally. That same avenue was open with respect to the seals.

All I am saying is that I can empathise with fishermen in the case of finding their catch eaten by a seal.
there are farmers that will just shoot the deer on their land without a licence or section 42,
authorisation usually takes time and by then the damage is done
try and put your self in their shoes,

meathstevie

4gun wrote: »

All I am saying is that I can empathise with fishermen in the case of finding their catch eaten by a seal.
there are farmers that will just shoot the deer on their land without a licence or section 42,
authorisation usually takes time and by then the damage is done
try and put your self in their shoes,

Of course authorisation will take a bit of time but when you have a sound economic case to present to the NPWS they move quite fast ( as in days, not weeks ) and in general a farmer knows his land and what's around it and knows when to apply so he can have his damage limitation options in place. I suppose it's no different for fishermen who know the waters they work and how to prevent predation by seals and other coastal carnivores. And by the way who has any evidence or even suspicion that this was carried out by a fisherman ?

CJhaughey

There is nothing to suggest that the dolphin was shot though?
I mean its like saying you were shooting pheasant and a badger was lying dead in the road that you must be responsible.
Animals die naturally all the time and if they are marine animals then they sometimes wash up on the beach.
It could just be coincidence that the dolphin and the seal happened to be in the same area.

johngalway

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1539

LB6

The extent of their injuries were “horrific” and they had to be “humanely euthanised”.



I have two problems with this statement tbh.

Injuries were horrific. Nothing to suggest that they were gun shots.

The wound shown in the picture is more than likely the shot from the bolt gun used by the vet or other person who humanely dispatched the animals.

Sparks

From the NARGC:

NARGC calls for criminal investigation into the shooting of three seals and a dolphin on Tramore Beech, County Waterford

Ireland’s largest game shooting organisation, the National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC), will be supporting a full investigation into the shooting of three grey seals and a dolphin which were found dead on Tramore Beach, County Waterford.

NARGC Director, Des Crofton stated that “the NARGC condemns the illegal killing of any protected species as being not only irresponsible, but damaging to the interests of all responsible law-abiding firearms owners in Ireland. Consequently, the NARGC will be supporting the Gardaí and the NPWS with their investigations and will be calling for the prosecution of those involved as well as the revocation of their firearms.”

Des Crofton added that “the vast majority of Irish firearms owners are responsible law-abiding citizens and would not have a licensed firearm in their possession if they were not. Any right-minded firearms owner will find this illegal act completely irresponsible and blatantly unacceptable.”