Paypal go to Dundalk

Max Powers

Paypal go to Dundalk, so congrats to them i suppose. Its great to see some jobs being brought to the country. However, the reasons our political reps gave us for them not coming here were
- lack of space
- not enough language speakers in the area.

The lack of space was completely discredited as there is numerous empty spaces around that could be used/merged/extended

The lack of various language speakers in the area seems like made-up criteria especially when you consider that Waterford has a larger population than Dundalk, a larger student population and presumably more 'foreign nationals' too. Im sure the proximity to Dublin will be used if one was to push this with IDA/politicians but i dont buy it, not many Dubs would travel to Dundalk for work or would do i suspect since they would have better choice there and with Sky already setting up a call centre in Dublin.


I sincerly hope the push for jobs to be BROUGHT to Waterford will be pursued by those parties involved. The IDA so far has done zip for Waterford, 200 jobs created by a company already in Waterford is not fair job creation when other counties are getting fresh start-ups with massive employment opportuinities. Has anybody heard anything about what our local reps asked the IDA when they were down recently???

Sully

Waterford was never being considered for this. Apparently its not just space, but skillset.

Businesses may have a few units they could merge or get working once seriously modified - but if somewhere else has units available that are near ready without serious work or it costs less than expect them to go there.

There are loads of factors taken into consideration.

hardybuck

PayPal and Ebay also employ about 1,000 people in Blanchardstown. Waterford would be twice as far away from than Dundalk, and further away from Dublin airport.

Dundalk being close to the border, they might have ideas for something up there as well - i.e. a facility in Belfast in the pipeline which we don't know about.

For all we know the exec's great granny was from around there and emigrated donkeys years ago. Loads of potential factors which we won't be aware of.

merlante

I don't buy distance arguments. 160km or 1hr 50mins to Dublin, 1hr 50mins to Cork, and both airports there, with a regional airport a few miles out. Waterford is well enough connected. The other arguments don't seem to make much sense on the face of it either. Seems like there would be more people in the south east looking for work or job options, which usually means lower labour costs. Plus people will travel for work.

It disgusts me to see Enda welcome call centre jobs in Waterford, which, lets face it, are the bottom of the barrel, with a half-life of about 3 years, whilst Dundalk gets a cracking company with plans for expansion.

Every call centre job that gets announced hurts Waterford's chance of getting real jobs. Sorry if this offends people who work in call centres, but you can not base your economy around these jobs. They are mostly low skilled, provide bugger all secondary jobs for the most part, and disappear as soon as contracts are terminated. Manufacturing would be better. IT, pharma, etc., is what we really need. This FG whooping over the Rigney Dolphin announcement was awful in this respect. (By the way, if the Rigney jobs are higher skilled, I will happily stand corrected.)

Sully

You cant force a business to locate in a specific area. If the business wishes to go to Dundalk, so be it.

The government will always welcome any type of job creation. Waterford is suffering, they got a bit of a boost with jobs, and it was welcomed. Its normal. People would moan if they didn't anyway.

hardybuck

merlante wrote: »

I don't buy distance arguments. 160km or 1hr 50mins to Dublin, 1hr 50mins to Cork, and both airports there, with a regional airport a few miles out. Waterford is well enough connected. The other arguments don't seem to make much sense on the face of it either. Seems like there would be more people in the south east looking for work or job options, which usually means lower labour costs. Plus people will travel for work.

It disgusts me to see Enda welcome call centre jobs in Waterford, which, lets face it, are the bottom of the barrel, with a half-life of about 3 years, whilst Dundalk gets a cracking company with plans for expansion.

Every call centre job that gets announced hurts Waterford's chance of getting real jobs. Sorry if this offends people who work in call centres, but you can not base your economy around these jobs. They are mostly low skilled, provide bugger all secondary jobs for the most part, and disappear as soon as contracts are terminated. Manufacturing would be better. IT, pharma, etc., is what we really need. This FG whooping over the Rigney Dolphin announcement was awful in this respect. (By the way, if the Rigney jobs are higher skilled, I will happily stand corrected.)

Trust me, you'd be surprised how big a factor that travel times play in decisions such as this.

Aside from the extra 50 mins closer each way Dundalk is to their Dublin base, the company HQ is in California. Dublin or Shannon are the only transatlantic airports we have. Cork has quite limited options in comparison to Dublin and Waterford Airport isn't even worth mentioning.

I work for a multinational organisation with locations in every province in Ireland. When we fly we generally do so from Dublin. When we have visitors we generally meet them in Dublin. If you are located in the other sites you just have to cope with the extra commute as part of your working day.

ex_infantry man

hardybuck wrote: »

Trust me, you'd be surprised how big a factor that travel times play in decisions such as this.

Aside from the extra 50 mins closer each way Dundalk is to their Dublin base, the company HQ is in California. Dublin or Shannon are the only transatlantic airports we have. Cork has quite limited options in comparison to Dublin and Waterford Airport isn't even worth mentioning.

I work for a multinational organisation with locations in every province in Ireland. When we fly we generally do so from Dublin. When we have visitors we generally meet them in Dublin. If you are located in the other sites you just have to cope with the extra commute as part of your working day.

i,m guessing u work for msd?

hardybuck

ex_infantry man wrote: »

i,m guessing u work for msd?

No. None of our locations are a commutable distance from Waterford. MSD have nothing in Connaught or Ulster either by the way.

merlante

hardybuck wrote: »

Trust me, you'd be surprised how big a factor that travel times play in decisions such as this.

Aside from the extra 50 mins closer each way Dundalk is to their Dublin base, the company HQ is in California. Dublin or Shannon are the only transatlantic airports we have. Cork has quite limited options in comparison to Dublin and Waterford Airport isn't even worth mentioning.

I work for a multinational organisation with locations in every province in Ireland. When we fly we generally do so from Dublin. When we have visitors we generally meet them in Dublin. If you are located in the other sites you just have to cope with the extra commute as part of your working day.

The fact of the matter is that Ireland, itself, is out of the way. The decision to locate in Ireland is to some degree a trade off against location. Also, look at Galway, even further from Dublin. Okay, you have decent airports in Shannon and Knock, but I wouldn't say Galway is any better served than Waterford. I don't buy that Galway's relatively better development is down to location. I take your point, but there are clearly other factors at work as well.

para45

Dundalk has 3 international airports within a 1hour travel time .

Dublin in 45 minutes
Belfast city 1hr international
& Belfast Aldergrove ( Also international )

ANd just over one hour from Blanchardstown

And a very good Motorway all the way that connects Dublin with Belfast. Dundalk is a very good spot

And the main reason for ireland is that we are the only English speaking country in the EMU which makes communication easy with the USA and obviously the good tax breaks that makes most USA countries also choose is as their EU headquarters if the HQ are based in a English speaking country like USA canada , Australia, South Africa etc

merlante wrote: »

I don't buy distance arguments. 160km or 1hr 50mins to Dublin, 1hr 50mins to Cork, and both airports there, with a regional airport a few miles out. Waterford is well enough connected. The other arguments don't seem to make much sense on the face of it either. Seems like there would be more people in the south east looking for work or job options, which usually means lower labour costs. Plus people will travel for work.

It disgusts me to see Enda welcome call centre jobs in Waterford, which, lets face it, are the bottom of the barrel, with a half-life of about 3 years, whilst Dundalk gets a cracking company with plans for expansion.

Every call centre job that gets announced hurts Waterford's chance of getting real jobs. Sorry if this offends people who work in call centres, but you can not base your economy around these jobs. They are mostly low skilled, provide bugger all secondary jobs for the most part, and disappear as soon as contracts are terminated. Manufacturing would be better. IT, pharma, etc., is what we really need. This FG whooping over the Rigney Dolphin announcement was awful in this respect. (By the way, if the Rigney jobs are higher skilled, I will happily stand corrected.)

merlante

Sully wrote: »

You cant force a business to locate in a specific area. If the business wishes to go to Dundalk, so be it.

The government will always welcome any type of job creation. Waterford is suffering, they got a bit of a boost with jobs, and it was welcomed. Its normal. People would moan if they didn't anyway.

I don't buy this argument about 'not being able to force companies to set up in certain areas'. Of course you can't 'force' them. But unless there is a clear cut sentimental reason why a company would want to choose a particular location (e.g. State Street is Kilkenny is down to a nice holiday taken by executive) then, let's face, there's bugger all difference between one town and another. Yes, we can argue about distances from airports, but companies can and do locate all over the country, and for every 'rule' that might seem to exclude a location, you'll find another similar location that has gotten investment that breaks the rule. That being the case, companies are obviously, to one extent or another, 'open to suggestions'.

They are certainly open to tax incentives and breaks. They would certainly be open to the government offering to fund half a building, or some such, or to provide, say, free broadband in a particular locale. Also, if Waterford is always suggested on a short list, then it will eventually be selected. You can also give a location special designations, and make commitments to a certain type of cluster. You can even -- which I suspect is not happening -- speak of a particular location in glowing terms! Does anyone believe that Waterford's poor profile in Dublin has nothing to do with it's low levels of IDA investment?

Regarding the Rigney Dolphin, and other locally created, jobs, I have a problem with governments announcing jobs that were created in a region with little or no government help. I suppose if the government are throwing in a few quid, they have some moral right to take some credit, but it is sickening nonetheless when you compare 200->1000 Paypal jobs with 30 call centre jobs. And this is not a dig against FG, they all do it.

merlante

para45 wrote: »

Dundalk has 3 international airports within a 1hour travel time .

Dublin in 45 minutes
Belfast city 1hr international
& Belfast Aldergrove ( Also international )

ANd just over one hour from Blanchardstown

And a very good Motorway all the way that connects Dublin with Belfast. Dundalk is a very good spot

And the main reason for ireland is that we are the only English speaking country in the EMU which makes communication easy with the USA and obviously the good tax breaks that makes most USA countries also choose is as their EU headquarters if the HQ are based in a English speaking country like USA canada , Australia, South Africa etc

That's all very fine but, for some crazy reason, not all companies set up Dundalk. There is no 'perfect location' in Ireland, or at least, if there is, companies are happy to set up elsewhere, which is my point.

Sully

Why would the government offer a deal just because Waterford is complaining? The government wants to secure jobs. They couldn't give a ****e where they were once they stayed in Ireland. These businesses probably already get incentives to locate here, but I don't expect the government to say "We will do X, Y and Z if you locate in Waterford". If a company believes Waterford has potential, they will investigate it and see if it meets their requirements. We don't, end of story.

Waterford was never in the picture and I would imagine PayPal & other similar companies wanted to locate near Dublin which caters for everything rather down in Waterford which doesn't.

merlante

Sully wrote: »

Why would the government offer a deal just because Waterford is complaining? The government wants to secure jobs. They couldn't give a ****e where they were once they stayed in Ireland. These businesses probably already get incentives to locate here, but I don't expect the government to say "We will do X, Y and Z if you locate in Waterford". If a company believes Waterford has potential, they will investigate it and see if it meets their requirements. We don't, end of story.

Waterford was never in the picture and I would imagine PayPal & other similar companies wanted to locate near Dublin which caters for everything rather down in Waterford which doesn't.

That's absolute nonsense Sully. Locations that are relatively weaker economically should be prioritised for investment. It is the job of the government to ensure that all parts of the state are allowed to progress more or less equally. Back in medieval times, cities fought for commercial privilege, but in the era of the nation state, the state has the largest say about how the entire area is developed commercially. That state also controls all infrastructure spending. States can and do use tax breaks to focus investment in particular areas. This happens in Ireland right now, from the Shannon Free Zone, to the incentives available from the EU for the BMW region, to other breaks that are offered to companies on an ad-hoc basis.

Of course, the company has the final say, but the government plays a huge role. If you don't agree with strategic planning, maybe you'd be happier in Fianna Fail.

S28382

when the Chinese move in everyone will be working and Waterford will be the new hong kong

I agree with Sully. If Waterford was being looked at then it failed to meet whatever requirements deemed important to the company.

Ireland as a whole benefits from the announcement because it is another MNC feather in the cap, more will follow suit no doubt.

Also people are upset that Paypal decided to open up in Drogheda then they should move there and go work for them, rather than whinging on the internet.

fricatus

merlante wrote: »

But unless there is a clear cut sentimental reason why a company would want to choose a particular location (e.g. State Street is Kilkenny is down to a nice holiday taken by executive) then, let's face, there's bugger all difference between one town and another.

There was an interview with Louise Phelan on the RTE 9 O'Clock News just now. According to the caption on the TV, she's Vice President of PayPal EMEA (and yes I know that a company can have lots of VPs so she's not necessarily PayPal's no 2 in Europe). However she had a pronounced north-eastern accent. What's the betting she's from Dundalk and had a big part in the decision.

These things matter, and having the right person in the right place, or like the State Street example, impressing the right person at the right time, is vital. I remember a story from the News & Star's Phoenix talking about how some executive back in the '80s was thinking of setting up a facility in Waterford, and when his wife saw the run-down city centre and shops, she persuaded him that he should consider somewhere else. It might be apocryphal, but it's plausible.

That's why it's vital that the city goes out of its way to make a good impression on visitors at all times, and local hoteliers, publicans, restaurateurs and café owners have a huge part to play. The City Council is doing a good job by presenting the place as well as possible, and by promoting the new museums, etc, but every single one of us has to promote Waterford to outsiders, and I think we're bad at that.

Maybe Galway's success is in large part because it's a nice place that people like, and it has fiercely loyal inhabitants who truly believe (and tell everyone) that it's the best place in the world. Do we do that?

AdMMM

A company I worked for in Dublin recently moved offices a mere 8 miles away and the extra time it takes to get to Dublin Airport nearly made them reconsider the move as a big part of their operation is having executives travel between Dublin and London to work their 9-5. I'm not surprised that Waterford wasn't even considered for something like this.

fricatus

AdMMM wrote: »

A company I worked for in Dublin recently moved offices a mere 8 miles away and the extra time it takes to get to Dublin Airport nearly made them reconsider the move as a big part of their operation is having executives travel between Dublin and London to work their 9-5. I'm not surprised that Waterford wasn't even considered for something like this.

Funny then, that whenever we argue that Waterford needs better air links, someone pops the head up to say "sure you're only two hours from Dublin Airport now. Can't you just fly to London (etc.) from there?"

In another thread on the same topic of FDI locating in Ireland, someone mentioned that they had witnessed Cork getting one particular investment over Waterford because of the superior connections to London and continental cities. I would guess that the proximity of Dublin Airport did Dundalk's chances no harm.

fuzzy dunlop

"First off congrats to Dundalk. However It's laughable the notion that Waterford is less advantageous than Dundalk as far as the location of Pay Pal is concerned.It is also complete bollox to suggest that the skills available in the Dundalk area are in effect the reason of the location there or that Pay Pal "wanted" to go there. I find it hard to believe that Pay Pal or a company like it could nor be persuaded to set up in Waterford especially with TSSG here.I would imagine if it was left up to Pay Pal they would locate in these jobs by expanding their Blanchardstown site. It's amazing that companies like Abbot can set up in Donegal and MBNA in Leitrim yet Waterford just 100 miles from Dublin.80 miles from Cork and effectively the same distance from Belfast that Cork is from Dublin is some sort of Black Hole of Calcutta.As the saying goes Pull the other one it has bells on it!" Also if the facilities are not here then the question is why not? If the govt and IDA were serious about Waterford they would build them.2

robtri

firstly it is great to see some new jobs on this scale anywhere in ireland...

as too waterford... available office space is a major problem in the city and surrounds... there is nothing currently available in the 40,000sq.ft and above office space market..

mike65

merlante wrote: »

That's absolute nonsense Sully. Locations that are relatively weaker economically should be prioritised for investment. It is the job of the government to ensure that all parts of the state are allowed to progress more or less equally. Back in medieval times, cities fought for commercial privilege, but in the era of the nation state, the state has the largest say about how the entire area is developed commercially. That state also controls all infrastructure spending. States can and do use tax breaks to focus investment in particular areas. This happens in Ireland right now, from the Shannon Free Zone, to the incentives available from the EU for the BMW region, to other breaks that are offered to companies on an ad-hoc basis.

Dundalk is definitely such an area which also has the advantage of being able to draw on a "talent" pool of a million people within a hours drive. Waterford was never in the running, some thought Limerick certainly was, wonder if they are screaming with disappointment? At least they have some reason to.

guv999

robtri wrote: »

firstly it is great to see some new jobs on this scale anywhere in ireland...

as too waterford... available office space is a major problem in the city and surrounds... there is nothing currently available in the 40,000sq.ft and above office space market..

Agree. I believe that the office and building situation is a major barrier. We may well have the skills and a great motorway to the capital city, but unfortunately not the office space.

Look at the building Sky are moving into in Dublin. http://www.burlingtonplaza.ie/gallery/
We certainly have the skills for these jobs, (ex TT staff would be ideally suited) and would be cheaper than Dublin but do not have the space.

robtri

guv999 wrote: »

Agree. I believe that the office and building situation is a major barrier. We may well have the skills and a great motorway to the capital city, but unfortunately not the office space.

Look at the building Sky are moving into in Dublin. http://www.burlingtonplaza.ie/gallery/
We certainly have the skills for these jobs, (ex TT staff would be ideally suited) and would be cheaper than Dublin but do not have the space.

very true....

best we could offer is the old talk talk place.... a 1970's converted factory ....

calvin_zola

political clout is non existent aswell in Waterford.

Sully

calvin_zola wrote: »

political clout is non existent aswell in Waterford.

I think there is this belief that elected officials in constituency's can actually get into the thick of these things. I don't agree tbh and I am not so sure they would be very good at it anyway

Max Powers

Sully wrote: »

You cant force a business to locate in a specific area. If the business wishes to go to Dundalk, so be it.
.

The problem is sully that the IDA has a political agenda, pressurised by politicians, the IDA stats show the lack of FDI visits to the SE and Waterford is out of skew with all other regions. How can we get FDI if we are not even on the company radar. We can compete if we have a level playing field.

para45

I do think that we should all be unhappy when Jobs or investment come to Ireland thats not were we are located . Its not positive to be bitching and breaking other counties down just because we not living in them or from there .

yes location does play a good part but its also the deal thats done at that point between the players. Goverment , landlords and investors

It might be more constructive to promote the Ireland of ireland as a good destination and not spend so much time to criticize the choices of Investors . At the end of the day they want to invest and cant make everybody happy . Its all about more jobs and revenue for ireland

One poster made a valid point about the state of some towns and the attractive ness to investors when they decide locations. This might be another point to be looked at by the IDA in improving generation to obtain investment?

i dont think that the person from paypal thats the spoke person with the North east accent hadnt much choice or influence as these things are decided by the big boys /gals and is more a coincidence. Maybe that person lives in Dublin now and will be inconvenienced by the travel hahahaah

Lets be happy for Ireland and hope for more investment all over the country!!!!!!!!!!:)


And lads i hope you get a good turn in Waterford also!!!!

merlante

para45 wrote: »

I do think that we should all be unhappy when Jobs or investment come to Ireland thats not were we are located . Its not positive to be bitching and breaking other counties down just because we not living in them or from there .

yes location does play a good part but its also the deal thats done at that point between the players. Goverment , landlords and investors

It might be more constructive to promote the Ireland of ireland as a good destination and not spend so much time to criticize the choices of Investors . At the end of the day they want to invest and cant make everybody happy . Its all about more jobs and revenue for ireland

One poster made a valid point about the state of some towns and the attractive ness to investors when they decide locations. This might be another point to be looked at by the IDA in improving generation to obtain investment?

i dont think that the person from paypal thats the spoke person with the North east accent hadnt much choice or influence as these things are decided by the big boys /gals and is more a coincidence. Maybe that person lives in Dublin now and will be inconvenienced by the travel hahahaah

Lets be happy for Ireland and hope for more investment all over the country!!!!!!!!!!:)


And lads i hope you get a good turn in Waterford also!!!!

I don't think anyone was dissing or begrudging Dundalk or being negative about the jobs. But this is a Waterford board, and it is of interest to Waterford people how and why FDI appear elsewhere and not in Waterford.

Sully

merlante wrote: »

That's absolute nonsense Sully. Locations that are relatively weaker economically should be prioritised for investment. It is the job of the government to ensure that all parts of the state are allowed to progress more or less equally. Back in medieval times, cities fought for commercial privilege, but in the era of the nation state, the state has the largest say about how the entire area is developed commercially. That state also controls all infrastructure spending. States can and do use tax breaks to focus investment in particular areas. This happens in Ireland right now, from the Shannon Free Zone, to the incentives available from the EU for the BMW region, to other breaks that are offered to companies on an ad-hoc basis.

Of course, the company has the final say, but the government plays a huge role. If you don't agree with strategic planning, maybe you'd be happier in Fianna Fail.

The only thing the government can do is create facilities here that we don't have, if a company says no to Waterford. For example, a major airport. Decent broadband. Better office / retail / industrial units actually ready to be fitted out.

We need to establish why there is no interest, would investment by the state to address these problems pay off (like would building an expensive airport actually make sense? Would people really use it? Would it be as busy so it pays back? etc), does the state have the finances to direct at this, is Waterford an area that is capable of offering such services even if fitted out (skillset, other location factors, etc).

Arguments were put forward for the motorway that it would improve jobs and more would locate here because of the better road network. Likewise, the skillset apparently will be introduced by giving WIT a University title. The motorway theory failed to-date, but I guess you will argue that other factors need addressing before they will all link up and be of benefit.

Can, if all these problems we mention be addressed, perform strongly compared to the likes of Dublin and Dundalk?

Max Powers wrote: »

The problem is sully that the IDA has a political agenda, pressurised by politicians, the IDA stats show the lack of FDI visits to the SE and Waterford is out of skew with all other regions. How can we get FDI if we are not even on the company radar. We can compete if we have a level playing field.

A fair point but do we have anything concrete to back this up, bar the lack of investment which might be linked to other issues?

We have no ministerial position, and wont for a long time. Our TDs are new to the block, bar Paudie with a bit of experience in the Seanad. Backbenchers don't and cant throw as much weight as a Minister. They don't even have much weight to lobby their own party, especially on their own.

Nypd

All we can do is live in hope for our beloved county.
Since the opening of the M9, Waterford has become far easier to get too.
One wonders how long ago PayPal done their reci on Eire, was the motorway open then ?
With eBay based in Dublin perhaps they wanted to be as close as possible with out the over heads associated with Dublin.

It's bitterly disappointing for Waterford to watch jobs going everywhere bar here, but it is very positive for Ireland inc.

Psychedelic

Sully wrote: »

Why would the government offer a deal just because Waterford is complaining? The government wants to secure jobs. They couldn't give a ****e where they were once they stayed in Ireland. These businesses probably already get incentives to locate here, but I don't expect the government to say "We will do X, Y and Z if you locate in Waterford". If a company believes Waterford has potential, they will investigate it and see if it meets their requirements. We don't, end of story.

Waterford was never in the picture and I would imagine PayPal & other similar companies wanted to locate near Dublin which caters for everything rather down in Waterford which doesn't.

I thought the point of Richard Bruton's South East Employment Action Plan was to make Waterford and the South East a priority for investment? Someone from the IDA was down here recently stating (direct quote here) that Waterford was their top priority for 2012.

If PayPal simply didn't want to locate here, or Waterford didn't have enough facilities or whatever, then fair enough. But these regular announcements of big investments for other towns and cities and nothing for Waterford. This not about Waterford complaining, we're genuinely in need of a big investment like this. The Government could/should offer extra incentives for locating in Waterford or the South East.

Psychedelic

The other thing is, we already have major companies like Genzyme, Teva and Bausch & Lomb here already, so they obviously have no problems with our broadband, infrastructure, international airport connectivity etc so if they have no problems being in Waterford then surely the excuses given for other companies not locating here don't hold too much water?

fricatus

From the Indo today:

Irish Independent wrote:

Ms Phelan carried out a thorough analysis of the linguistic abilities of potential candidates for the jobs based in the north-east region from Dublin to the North.

"I did a very in-depth analysis on the language opportunities that are in Dundalk. That was the most important thing in terms of clinching the investment," she added.

While some recruitment may be needed abroad, she found that speakers of the majority of languages the company needed -- including French, German, Spanish and Dutch -- could be found in this region.

There are large buildings of 100,000sq ft lying empty in Dundalk, which can be used straight away, meaning the operation will be up and running from July.

And the fact the new centre will be located just an hour's drive from the US company's base in Blanchardstown in Dublin helped seal the deal.

She mentions language skills, but I'm sure I won't insult the good people of Dundalk when I make the assumption that they're not necessarily any better or worse at languages than people in Waterford, or indeed Limerick, which was in competition with Dundalk for the investment.

I'd say a bigger factor was the large buildings (the old Dell plant being empty was why Limerick was also considered), and from the report above, the proximity to Dublin was a major consideration.

This is worrying; whereas heretofore we in Waterford were being told "you need to improve access to Dublin" in order to get FDI, the new motorways have now meant that locations like Dundalk and Kilkenny are almost commutable from Dublin, and now the goalposts are shifted. We can't move Waterford any closer to Dublin, so if that's an advantage in such matters, then we're at a permanent loss.

Good luck to Dundalk by the way. It's really nice and heartening to see investment going to an area that has been genuinely economically disadvantaged for many years. Too often we see IDA companies crowding into Dublin, Cork and (inexplicably) Galway - all three of which places are doing comparatively well. It will be a big shot in the arm for Dundalk and I wish them well. I just hope the IDA are putting in a similarly big effort for the two cities that have suffered the most from job losses in the past 5 years - Limerick and Waterford.

robtri

fricatus wrote: »

From the Indo today:



She mentions language skills, but I'm sure I won't insult the good people of Dundalk when I make the assumption that they're not necessarily any better or worse at languages than people in Waterford, or indeed Limerick, which was in competition with Dundalk for the investment.

I'd say a bigger factor was the large buildings (the old Dell plant being empty was why Limerick was also considered), and from the report above, the proximity to Dublin was a major consideration.

This is worrying; whereas heretofore we in Waterford were being told "you need to improve access to Dublin" in order to get FDI, the new motorways have now meant that locations like Dundalk and Kilkenny are almost commutable from Dublin, and now the goalposts are shifted. We can't move Waterford any closer to Dublin, so if that's an advantage in such matters, then we're at a permanent loss.

Good luck to Dundalk by the way. It's really nice and heartening to see investment going to an area that has been genuinely economically disadvantaged for many years. Too often we see IDA companies crowding into Dublin, Cork and (inexplicably) Galway - all three of which places are doing comparatively well. It will be a big shot in the arm for Dundalk and I wish them well. I just hope the IDA are putting in a similarly big effort for the two cities that have suffered the most from job losses in the past 5 years - Limerick and Waterford.

just from a paypal point of view... where would they propose they actually go in waterford... there is nothing available.... it would all ahve to be built from scratch for them.

there is no where in Waterford for PayPal...

Cabaal

robtri wrote: »

just from a paypal point of view... where would they propose they actually go in waterford... there is nothing available.... it would all ahve to be built from scratch for them.

there is no where in Waterford for PayPal...

They'd have to do alot of work to have a place big enough, and before anyone goes and suggests TalkTalk...its not big enough at all.

merlante

Sully wrote: »

The only thing the government can do is create facilities here that we don't have, if a company says no to Waterford. For example, a major airport. Decent broadband. Better office / retail / industrial units actually ready to be fitted out.

We need to establish why there is no interest, would investment by the state to address these problems pay off (like would building an expensive airport actually make sense? Would people really use it? Would it be as busy so it pays back? etc), does the state have the finances to direct at this, is Waterford an area that is capable of offering such services even if fitted out (skillset, other location factors, etc).

Arguments were put forward for the motorway that it would improve jobs and more would locate here because of the better road network. Likewise, the skillset apparently will be introduced by giving WIT a University title. The motorway theory failed to-date, but I guess you will argue that other factors need addressing before they will all link up and be of benefit.

Can, if all these problems we mention be addressed, perform strongly compared to the likes of Dublin and Dundalk?

You are missing the points that I and others have been making:
1. Nobody is talking about forcing companies to do anything, but to incentivise certain locations where appropriate -- which does happen.
2. Sometimes distance to airports or quality of infrastructure have very little to do with decisions.

Take a trip to the IDA website. Note the companies in locations that, by any conceivable measure, are more remote, less developed, smaller, etc. than Waterford. Abbott are massive in Sligo and Mayo, for example, as has been mentioned.

Note also, that when companies decide where to locate, the reason they *never* give is, "we were given a great package to locate here," they will say something like, "good workforce, great scenery, airports within 2 hrs, etc."

I don't expect that many FDI companies have all that much knowledge of the demographics of this country. Aside from Dublin, and high tech clusters in Cork and Galway, it's all much of a muchness, really. Every town is more or less the same, that's the reality. Companies will have special requirements in each case, but if they're coming to Ireland for the tax breaks, they don't necessarily care. If they think the government and council will move mountains for them, them will likely be tempted to go to one location over another. The question we have to ask is, in the finite amount of time that the IDA and the government have to pitch locations to a company, how much of it is dedicated to Waterford, and in what terms is Waterford mentioned? There is evidence to suggest that Waterford is not high on the IDAs list. This is a valid concern and something the government can address, if true.

The infrastructure in Waterford is very good anyway. The country is almost a city state at this stage, the main cities are so well connected -- to Dublin at least.

(Also, if you think that a WIT upgrade is "giving WIT a University title," despite all of the discussion you've been moderating, then I give up.)

fuzzy dunlop

Two places I can think of that could possibly be converted.Ferrybank SC instead of putting it on life support with a Kilkeeny Co. Co. Library a piece of chicanary that would make FF blush.Or a conversion of the original R&H Hall building which is essentially a high rise building.Industrial heritage like this has been converted into modern office space all over the world and believe it or not is actually historically important.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/317272_215284141863901_100001469507462_624686_6444413_n.jpg

mike65

You are joking of course.

jayboi

mike65 wrote: »

You are joking of course.

Il handle this!

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Two places I can think of that could possibly be converted.Ferrybank SC instead of putting it on life support with a Kilkeeny Co. Co. Library a piece of chicanary that would make FF blush.Or a conversion of the original R&H Hall building which is essentially a high rise building.Industrial heritage like this has been converted into modern office space all over the world and believe it or not is actually historically important.

Young man are you high?

fuzzy dunlop

mike65 wrote: »

You are joking of course.

Why do you say so?

fuzzy dunlop

jayboi wrote: »

Il handle this!



Young man are you high?

No and whereas glib comments such as yours are a dime a dozen if you actually did a small bit of research you find that what I am suggesting is not only possinle but is in fact desirable with examples all over the world.

gernon

fricatus wrote: »

There was an interview with Louise Phelan on the RTE 9 O'Clock News just now. According to the caption on the TV, she's Vice President of PayPal EMEA (and yes I know that a company can have lots of VPs so she's not necessarily PayPal's no 2 in Europe). However she had a pronounced north-eastern accent. What's the betting she's from Dundalk and had a big part in the decision.

http://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local/donaghmore_woman_leads_paypal_jobs_boost_1_3545135

Sorry to shatter the conspiracy lads but she's from Laois probably closer to ye than you thought.;)

jayboi

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

No and whereas glib comments such as yours are a dime a dozen if you actually did a small bit of research you find that what I am suggesting is not only possinle but is in fact desirable with examples all over the world.

Have you seen the R and H hall building lately the cost of making it safe livable in the 21st century would be astronomical, for the consultancy fees alone you could probably build a unit for a thousand people on the outskirts of town.

BlaasForRafa

robtri wrote: »

very true....

best we could offer is the old talk talk place.... a 1970's converted factory ....

Which worked very well. Its a complete fallacy that you need some super building to host a call centre.

BlaasForRafa

fricatus wrote: »

From the Indo today:



She mentions language skills, but I'm sure I won't insult the good people of Dundalk when I make the assumption that they're not necessarily any better or worse at languages than people in Waterford, or indeed Limerick, which was in competition with Dundalk for the investment.

I'd say the language skills reason is rubbish tbh. The level of 2nd and 3rd language skills all over Ireland is bad, Bioware in Galway have a lot of foreign language jobs....and most of them are being done by foreigners recruited from all over Europe.

mike65

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Which worked very well. Its a complete fallacy that you need some super building to host a call centre.

Could you get 1000 in there and the infrastructure that supports 1000 people?

fuzzy dunlop

jayboi wrote: »

Have you seen the R and H hall building lately the cost of making it safe livable in the 21st century would be astronomical, for the consultancy fees alone you could probably build a unit for a thousand people on the outskirts of town.

I very much doubt it. The structure is reinforced concrete one of the first examples in Europe. A similar building from scratch would cost in excess of 100 million. But that is neither here nor there the fact that you were so quick to poo poo the idea when you obviously have no idea what it would cost or to the buildings actual potential.It took me only three minutes to find three well known examples.

The Guinness Storehouse
The Phillips Light Tower
The Tate Modern

closer to home

The Granary

The Phillips Light Tower is a good example as at one stage it looked very much like RH Hall structure.

fuzzy dunlop

mike65 wrote: »

Could you get 1000 in there and the infrastructure that supports 1000 people?

Over five years absolutely.There is 13 acres of free space there also. The building itself must be equal to 100000 sq ft.

BlaasForRafa

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Over five years absolutely.There is 13 acres of free space there also. The building itself must be equal to 100000 sq ft.

Indeed, AOL employed 800+ for quite a while and the building wasn't at capacity by any means.

fuzzy dunlop

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Indeed, AOL employed 800+ for quite a while and the building wasn't at capacity by any means.

Indeed also consider the Granary is been converted by WIT from a museum to in school in no time.