Why would you want to go to a pub nowadays?

Big Nasty

My idea of a perfect night out is good beer, good food, good music and good company. In most pubs the only one of these I can get is the company while at home I can get all of the above at a fraction of the price.

To be fair to pubs they can't really lower their prices as most of them don't have a huge amount of business bar Friday and Saturday night and this has to carry the rest of the week. They also have staff costs, public liability, and everything else that goes with running a pub. Yes, many pubs could do with providing better entertainment but to justify even a small three piece band costing maybe €400 they have to take in an extra €1200 to break even on the band.

Publicans had it good for a long time. Having a pub, even in the assholes of nowhere, was a licence to print money. Different story today. Most pubs you go in to have the same selection of beer, i.e. Guinness, Smithwicks, Carlsberg, Heineken, etc., all of which you can buy a case of for €15 in Tesco. They also have practically the same menus, e.g. Steak, burgers, breaded chicken, salmon and a veggie stir fry and most of the time I would cook better myself for a fraction of the price.

IMO what publicans need to do now is diversify. I.e., have a different food offering than any other pub in your area, have a different beer menu than any other pub in your area, serve wine by the glass at a reasonable price (€4-€7) and have a selection of well mixed cocktails at €5 each. As well as having an exceptional menu they need to have exceptional staff, not just someone paying their way through college but people who have a genuine interest in the trade, are well educated on the products they serve and know that giving that little bit extra will keep your customers coming back.

Serving crap beer at €3 a pint is not the answer. Providing an interesting alternative to sitting at home on the couch with a cheap beer in your hand is.

Thoughts?

slayerking

According to bridgestone pubs really need to change their approach in order to survive.
Pubs that matching good beer with good food are doing very well. It was big in 2011 and it doesnt seem to be slowing down which is great.

Pubs like Mulligans in Stoneybatter have it off to a tee; the kind of pubs that I will try and get to as much as I can because of the great food, great beer, nice atmosphere and very knowledgable and friendly staff.
A great all around experience really.

doomed

You can't beat a good pint in a good pub.

Problem is too many pubs are blasting crap music at you so you will drink more.

Big Nasty

slayerking wrote: »

According to bridgestone pubs really need to change their approach in order to survive.
Pubs that matching good beer with good food are doing very well. It was big in 2011 and it doesnt seem to be slowing down which is great.

Pubs like Mulligans in Stoneybatter have it off to a tee; the kind of pubs that I will try and get to as much as I can because of the great food, great beer, nice atmosphere and very knowledgable and friendly staff.
A great all around experience really.

That's it exactly IMO!

Unfortunately the day that was published Padraic Cribben from the VFI got on Newstalk and said it was a load of bollix! Look at the likes of Against The Grain, L Mulligan Grocer, Bull & Castle, etc. all flying it. Of course if all pubs started serving the same craft and speciality beers there would in turn be nothing new to offer but there's so much choice out there that they can all be individual.

Also with the growth of domestic craft brewers (what are we up to now, 21?) who obviously can't compete with Heineken and Diageo in terms of distribution never mind marketing are well able to supply locally. It would be great to see them being supported by pubs in their locality.

Martyn1989

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Of course if all pubs started serving the same craft and speciality beers there would in turn be nothing new to offer but there's so much choice out there that they can all be individual.
.

If every pub was serving microbrewed beer from home and abroad more breweries would open and the current ones would expand their range and start putting out more seasonals. It would be a win win for all involved. Maybe some day.

Rangi

slayerking wrote: »

According to bridgestone pubs really need to change their approach in order to survive.
Pubs that matching good beer with good food are doing very well. It was big in 2011 and it doesnt seem to be slowing down which is great.

Pubs like Mulligans in Stoneybatter have it off to a tee; the kind of pubs that I will try and get to as much as I can because of the great food, great beer, nice atmosphere and very knowledgable and friendly staff.
A great all around experience really.

Nail on the head.

guildofevil

I'm not sure that it would be a good idea for every pub to go down the specialist craft beer route. The problem is that it is indeed a specialist trade. Talk to anyone involved in L. Mulligan Grocers, Against the Grain, the Bier House, the Salt House, etc. and you will find a knowledgeable craft beer enthusiast. That passion is necessary to carry the business. Not every publican knows or cares about craft beer (or beer at all, in some cases), so specialising in craft beer would be a mistake for them.

What they can do though is to get a tap from a craft brewery in and maybe some bottles from one or two more. As long as they make sure to advertise the presence of the craft beer in their pub and learn to talk the talk about that particular product (the brewery can help here), they might find a few extra bums on seats, in addition to the ones ordering Heineken and Guinness. Being the compromise place where the Budweiser drinker can sit with his craft beer zealot friend and watch the match is another way of being the pub that survives.

Don't knock the cheap beer model either. There is a market for it and if you have your sums right it can be a way of doing business. Not everyone wants a fine craft product. Some just want to sit in the pub with a pint of cheap fizz. Just don't get this model and the craft beer model mixed up.

There are other markets to cater for too. I'm not sure whether cocktails are still in vogue, but I'm sure some imagination, a well designed menu and some tasty cocktails served with a flourish would get some extra trade.

There have to be other ways of doing business too, other niches less catered for.

Lapsed Catholic

Can't agree with the pubs not being able to drop prices. Most pubs will work off of a gross profit of circa 70%, most businesses would love a GP of 70%. The problem with cheap drink is the undesirables that it attracts. Cheap drink in all its meanings is not the answer. Good food is certainly a possible solution but the food safety gestapo in this countrty make this a fairly unviable option for alot of pubs. However the pubs lobby defeated McDowell when he dared to introduce a cafe-bar style licence, so no sympathy.

The pub is a retail outlet. When was the last time there was a "sale" in your local. Most publicans are lazy disinterested fools. Guinness had to retake the cleaning of beer lines because the quality of their product was suffering.

Other things killing pubs are

Constant SKY news on TV (turn it off after sports)
Too many TV screens
Loud music (often played for the benefit of the barman/maid)
Boring beer selection
Poor food (some local choices would help eg Cheese platter)
Lack of affordable good wine
Lack of affordable soft drinks

BeerNut

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

most businesses would love a GP of 70%.

Most pubs would love the cleaning, maintenance and public liability insurance bills of most businesses. Not to mention the lack of barriers to entry in the first place. Though, as you say, that's a hole they've largely dug for themselves.

Lapsed Catholic

BeerNut wrote: »

Most pubs would love the cleaning, maintenance and public liability insurance bills of most businesses. Not to mention the lack of barriers to entry in the first place. Though, as you say, that's a hole they've largely dug for themselves.

And most retail businesses would have liked the 7 day licence and extended opening hours that were pubs exclusively for years.

I not aware of barriers to entry in any other retail sector, why would pubs be any different?

I have worked in pubs and frequented enough to know that it is not rocket science. Like any other business it takes a level of competence but more importantly a level of interest in your cutomers and products. Something sadly lacking in a lot of pubs.

There is nothing like a good pint, with good company in a good pub. It's in danger of disappearing, I hope it doesn't.

BeerNut

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

And most retail businesses would have liked the 7 day licence and extended opening hours that were pubs exclusively for years.

And which they have had for years, so this isn't an issue.

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

I not aware of barriers to entry in any other retail sector, why would pubs be any different?

Why indeed? It's stupid. But it's the way the law is and it affects the economics of running a pub, which is what we were talking about. Calling out pubs because of their gross profit compared to other retail doesn't make sense when you consider the other factors.

Lapsed Catholic

I'm not calling out pubs because of their GP. I was attempting to show that pubs can be viable but most stick to the GP and won't drop margins. Beamish, Tuburg etc cost less to buy, the pubs GP is largely unaffected as they do not offer any discount to their customers. Publicans and their reps love to blame the smoking ban and drink driving laws as a reason for the decline in business. While they may have had an affect the smoking ban is in since '04 and the drink driving laws, albeit updated, are here for longer. It easier to blame others than to accept that you may be doing something wrong yourself, human nature. Pubs have a central position in Irish culture, somthing that will be lost if complatency takes further root.

Big Nasty

While price is certainly a contributary factor I feel that it is more the standard that is killing the trade. Most pubs are average, not excelling in anything. It's no good to just trundle along anymore, pubs have to stand out and be different from one another.

RangeR

One of the main things that stopped me going to my local in Naas is that they charge in at peak times. They are always out the door at the weekends but still charge 15 to €20 in. I don't see a need for the charge at all. They do put burgers on and what not but these are also a fiver a pop. The drink is ok but always premium prices.

I mentioned it to the various staff members numerous times, they seemed disinterested so I voted with my feet. Haven't been there in over a year [other than the odd footy match but the place does be dead then anyway]

They scream for customers during the week, they cream you Fridays and Saturdays.

Edit : Now that I think of it, back in the good times, if you were in the pub before 10pm and then wanted to go up stairs to the club when it opened, they made you go out and back in again so that you would have to pay.......

Martyn1989

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

I have worked in pubs and frequented enough to know that it is not rocket science.

Working as a barman is not going to teach someone how to run a good pub. Its a common misconception that customers think they know the ins and outs of the pub trade because they go to pubs and their mate who owns one shared a few facts over a pint once.

Granted the majority of pubs in this country are very poorly run, simply because the publican has not changed with the trends and he does business the old fashioned way.

Another factor is shear lack of training from lounge staff/bar backs right up to management. These people have never taken management training courses etc and have just been shown off the cuff what to do and how to do. The only establishments that offer any significant training to their staff are hotels, even the large pub groups offer nothing but onsite training from middle management that don't know what their doing let alone showing somebody else.

the beer revolu

I can tell you why I go to my local pub rather a lot.

There is a very good beer selection both Irish and imported, draught and bottled.
There is a very good whisk(e)y, rum and tequila selection (and Cognac at the moment).
The staff are friendly and knowledgeable about what they sell.
The music is eclectic and not too loud.
It is very keenly priced and a half pint is half the price of a pint - which I think should be made law. And always specials on the board.
There is an interesting mix of ages and nationalities amongst the clientèle.
If people start to act the maggot they will be asked to leave if they can't desist.
It's small - I like small pubs.
No TV.

I might think of more...

Big Nasty

I bet it's a busy spot too!

the beer revolu

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I bet it's a busy spot too!

Mostly.
Can be kinda unpredictable as in it might be packed on a Tuesday and dead on a Saturday. The overheads are low, though.

Lapsed Catholic

Is it call ed the Moon Under Water?

Martyn I was a barman but I also work in the pub sector as a business adviser in later years. I would have a bit more insight than the average barman. But I do agree with the intention of your post

Technocentral

Can I throw in chatting to hot women as a reason or does it have to be drink related?

Martyn1989

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

Is it call ed the Moon Under Water?

Martyn I was a barman but I also work in the pub sector as a business adviser in later years. I would have a bit more insight than the average barman. But I do agree with the intention of your post

Apoligies, I just noticed how that could have been taken, and I didn't mean it as an attack on you but against the many 'back seat' publicans and customers who attempt to tell a barman how to go about doing his job.

It also works vice versa, many senior barman and management will not listen to younger staff members or customers even though all the evidence is screaming for the industry to be turned upside down.

Skerries

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Serving crap beer at €3 a pint is not the answer. Providing an interesting alternative to sitting at home on the couch with a cheap beer in your hand is.

what pubs are you going into to get €3 pints?!

Can't agree with the pubs not being able to drop prices. Most pubs will work off of a gross profit of circa 70%, most businesses would love a GP of 70%. The problem with cheap drink is the undesirables that it attracts. Cheap drink in all its meanings is not the answer. Good food is certainly a possible solution but the food safety gestapo in this countrty make this a fairly unviable option for alot of pubs. However the pubs lobby defeated McDowell when he dared to introduce a cafe-bar style licence, so no sympathy

also were'nt Wetherspoons trying to bring their model of pubs over here but also shot down
I have been to a good few Wetherspoons and they do great cheap food with cheap beer in surroundings that put a lot of Irish pubs charging full price to shame

Martyn1989

Skerries wrote: »

I have been to a good few Wetherspoons and they do great cheap food with cheap beer in surroundings that put a lot of Irish pubs charging full price to shame

Not to mention alot of them supporting the local microbreweries and stocking real cask ale.

Big Nasty

Martyn1989 wrote: »

Not to mention alot of them supporting the local microbreweries and stocking real cask ale.

Maybe so but I think it's indivdualism we need in pubs, not uniformity. Although I wouldn't say no to The Belgian Beer Cafe opening here. In fact I hear they're on the lookout.:)

Lapsed Catholic

Martyn, no offence taken.

Re Wetherspoons, my local one in London (when I lived there) used to attract a fairly scummy crowd with their cheap beer, Guinness £1.50, house ale 89p. The food was also pretty crap, frozen pies etc. I'm sure that things have improved.

Wetherspoons have over 800 pubs in the UK, imagine their discount when they place their weekly order with Guinness. The Vintners here must have choked with the thought of them entering the market.

Lapsed Catholic

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Maybe so but I think it's indivdualism we need in pubs, not uniformity. Although I wouldn't say no to The Belgian Beer Cafe opening here. In fact I hear they're on the lookout.:)

Nothing fundamentally wrong with our pubs that a decent beer menu wouldn't help solve. But I agree the BBC would be good although my choice would be http://thecraftbeerco.com/

Big Nasty

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

Nothing fundamentally wrong with our pubs that a decent beer menu wouldn't help solve.

I agree completely, we have some of the best pubs in the world, unfortunately for many of them we have operators with tunnel vision.

Lapsed Catholic wrote: »

But I agree the BBC would be good although my choice would be http://thecraftbeerco.com/

What I was saying was that in general I wouldn't like to see pub chains coming in here at all, completely the wrong direction IMO. But I could of course put up with the likes of BBC / CBC.

Technocentral

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Maybe so but I think it's indivdualism we need in pubs, not uniformity. Although I wouldn't say no to The Belgian Beer Cafe opening here. In fact I hear they're on the lookout.:)

Wow just had a look at what they sell, its fantastic, in fact its the parallel universe version of the majority of pubs over here, it has loads of great craft beers and only one lager (Stella) for your friend who has to different by ordering something outside the norm(there's always one!). Is there a petition to sign to get it over here? Please!

Big Nasty

Technocentral wrote: »

Wow just had a look at what they sell, its fantastic, in fact its the parallel universe version of the majority of pubs over here, it has loads of great craft beers and only one lager (Stella) for your friend who has to different by ordering something outside the norm(there's always one!). Is there a petition to sign to get it over here? Please!

Rumour has it that someone has taken on the master franchise for here and is looking for a suitable site in Dublin. I have no confirmation of that so it's just a rumour for now.

Ronan cork

To be honest lads you just havnt found the right pub. If I don't like a particular bar, how it's run or the beer they serve I don't go there. It's that simple. Moaning about it online isn't going to change anything. Now I know that not everyone has the benefit of being able to choose between a large amount of bars but if you walk into your local and tell the manager why you don't go in there in a calm and reasonable manner ( Monday works better than sat night!) how long before he starts to think about it?? If more people did that lots of these "struggling" bars might get the hint and give its customers what they want!!

I run a bar myself and a couple of customers were looking for "decent" brandy. I didn't have any at the time and I personally didnt know the first thing about brandy. I now have a very good brandy selection. The customers are now happy and give me money.

It's not rocket science but if I was a rocket scientist I probably wouldn't be running a bar!!

Ronan cork

the beer revolu wrote: »

I can tell you why I go to my local pub rather a lot.

There is a very good beer selection both Irish and imported, draught and bottled.
There is a very good whisk(e)y, rum and tequila selection (and Cognac at the moment).
The staff are friendly and knowledgeable about what they sell.
The music is eclectic and not too loud.
It is very keenly priced and a half pint is half the price of a pint - which I think should be made law. And always specials on the board.
There is an interesting mix of ages and nationalities amongst the clientèle.
If people start to act the maggot they will be asked to leave if they can't desist.
It's small - I like small pubs.
No TV.

I might think of more...

Sounds like my kind of place!!