Is this cheating? If yes, why?

Spiderchick

Interested in opinions on the folllowing cos I cannot work it out.

Chap married for 15 years and marriage ended when wife discovered his 16 month affair. Swears undying love to number 2, never loved anyone as much, she has changed his life, never been as happy etc etc....He becamed engaged to number 2, 7 months after split. They are now engaged almost 3 years and due to get married this year. Now the complicated bit. He has kept up a 'friends with benefits' arrangement with the (ex) wife this almost 4 years!! Fairly erratic I think... Was weekly initially as he lived close by. Couple years in and monthly 'affair', whenever opportunity arose. Now less frequently as he lives in another country, but still keeps it up whenever opportunity presents itself.

One assumes he doesn't consider it cheating on girl number 2 as 'its just sex'. My questions are - can he really love girl number 2 if he still keeps a no strings arrangement with wife (not quite divorced yet). And why is he risking the relationship with number 2 as one assumes she wouldn't agree with the it 'only being sex' sentiment?

Interested in opinions....

seamus

"Cheating" is defined within the relationship itself. There's no single definition of what cheating is. Some people consider looking at porn to be cheating. Others have no problem with an open relationship and it only becomes cheating when emotions are involved.

In most cases, it's a "one-on-one" scenario and engaging in activity with someone else, be it kissing, foreplay or sex, is usually seen by most people as cheating. A lot of people would also consider an emotional attachment without any physical activity to be "cheating", though it's much harder to draw a definite line on it.

In the case you describe, the fact that the woman he's been sleeping with is his ex-wife is irrelevant. He's sleeping with another woman outside of his relationship. If that's not OK in that relationship, then he's cheating.

thenightrider

He is just an a$$ hole doesn't deserve to be with an one. It is clearly cheating.

28064212

It's very simple: Does girl number 2 know? Has she given consent? If she doesn't know, why is he hiding it? Is it because he knows she wouldn't be ok with it? That's pretty much the definition of cheating, no?

Cavehill Red

I'm guessing from the detail you gave that this is not a hypothetical scenario, OP.

Can I ask what your involvement is (friend, family, ex-wife, something else)?

I could be well off-base here, but your post read to me like you might be the ex.

For what it's worth, if he hasn't told his current partner that he's sleeping with his ex, it's cheating.

Plazaman

Looks like this guy has the best of both worlds. Had an affair with the number two while with the wife and now is having an affair with the wife while with number 2. If both ladies are putting up with it, why would he stop. Definitely cheating no matter which way it is cut.

Spiderchick

Thanks for responses.

I am best mate of ex which is probably why it reads like I am her - been mates since we were 7:) New partner of course is not aware of current NSA arrangement. My friend naturally isn't that concerned about whether the new person knows or not or what the thinking of her ex husband is. Her position is that the sex was always great - she has started dating again this past year but nothing she wants to pursue - NSA with ex benefits her at the moment and as soon as it doesn't, she will finish it.

I see whats in it for her, so to speak. But I can't fathom whats in it for him? He must have a sex life with the new partner and would appear to be very happy with her - why risk all that for no strings with his ex, who apart from the sex, he has absolutely no interest in?

No reason for question apart from an amateur social anthropological point of view. My mate isn't bothered or curious, just me. I would have a zero tolerance for cheating in my relationships past and current and of course consider his behaviour cheating. Other people differ. Just can't figure why he is risking everything for infrequent sex.

SC

seamus

Spiderchick wrote: »

I see whats in it for her, so to speak. But I can't fathom whats in it for him?

He's probably getting an ego trip off the fact that he's been treating these two women like crap for the past 5 years, and yet the two of them still inexplicably want to sleep with him.

It's a power thing. If you spoke to him honestly, he would probably admit that he has no respect for either of them and sleeps with them because he can.

stargazer 68

I can't understand people like this! He cheats on her and now he cheats with her. What type of woman allows that to go on? He has no respect for either of these women, and is a toad, but then again she clearly has no respect for herself!

Triangla

Rule of thumb, if you're doing something you don't want your partner to know about then it's cheating.

IITYWYBMAD

Triangla wrote: »

Rule of thumb, if you're doing something you don't want your partner to know about then it's cheating.

That's too much of a generalization to be honest.

I think Seamus has hit most of it on the head, it that it is defined within a relationship.

However there do seem to be some socially accepted norms, such as fidelity that define most peoples view of how a person should conduct themselves with regards to their partner. Think of it this way, what would any right thinking person believe is right or wrong?

Spiderchick

Spiderchick wrote: »

Just can't figure why he is risking everything for infrequent sex.

SC

because he can

Spiderchick

Dovies wrote: »

I can't understand people like this! He cheats on her and now he cheats with her. What type of woman allows that to go on? He has no respect for either of these women, and is a toad, but then again she clearly has no respect for herself!

Thats harsh. Of course you are entitled to your opinion but don't think she sees it as a matter of respect - it fulfils a need she has. End of. Why isn't it suggested that he has no respect for himself for engaging in this behaviour? Its just her that has no respect for herself?

Not the way I roll, but I don't judge her for her choosing this option available to her.

I actually think what Seamus says about the ego trip is spot on. He just does it because he can. I still don't get why he risks it though. At any point, the ex could spill.... don't think she would, but who knows - he certainly doesn't!

poisonated

Your frIend sounds fairly desperate. The guy sounds like a tool. The other girl seems pretty clueless. No one comes off well here.

Spiderchick

Spiderchick wrote: »

At any point, the ex could spill.... don't think she would, but who knows - he certainly doesn't!

Without meaning to sound harsh, this is a man to whom she was married, who left her because he had an affair and preferred the other woman, and she's happily sleeping with him despite knowing he's with this other woman and despite what he has done to her
does she sound like she'd suddenly spill the beans? i don't think so

stargazer 68

Spiderchick wrote: »

Thats harsh. Of course you are entitled to your opinion but don't think she sees it as a matter of respect - it fulfils a need she has. End of. Why isn't it suggested that he has no respect for himself for engaging in this behaviour? Its just her that has no respect for herself?

!

Yeah you are right it is harsh and as I said the guy is a toad. But it is a 'need' she has or is it just to get back at the woman he left her for? Maybe in her mind she is thinking 'serves her right' for taking my man?

Silver_525

Huge lack of respect for the women and most probably himself aswell.
Sad really, some people have all kinds of issues that are played out like this. Certainly doesn't sound like a happy, contented man to me despite his "active sex life" :cool:

seenitall

OP, your friend sounds completely deluded. The only need that she is fulfilling at the moment is the need to hang on to the past and to the scumbag who hurt her. You don't seriously believe that this is completely unemotional for her, just a friend with benefits situation? I wouldn't believe that for a second, not with that kind of history with the guy under her belt! No matter what spin she puts on it for your benefit and her own.

Finally, who even cares about properly labelling the scumbag behaviour? Just try and make your friend see some sense, if she is a good friend. There is only one person who will get out of this mess laughing, and it's certainly not your friend. Mark my words.

(Also, people don't cheat because they can. If they cheated because they could, pretty much everyone in the world would be at it. People cheat because they choose to - which is rooted in their psychological make-up, not in the fact that there is someone attractive giving them the eye in the office. Opportunity and motivation are two different things.)

Spiderchick

Well we have debated this back and forth quite a lot and whilst I know her better than anyone else and vice versa, I am not inside her head. So Bluewolf and Seenitall, she could be both deluded and out for a little revenge.

I know she felt very betrayed initially but she has a very supportive network of family and friends and soon accepted that she was better off without and and dodged a bullet really. We both feel a little bit sorry for number 2 cos at least my friend knows the truth about him now. I suggested some of the above to her when I have questioned her sanity (kidding, ish) but she really does seem to have it very well thought out and comes off very well rounded and pragmatic about the whole thing. Seems to have conquered this whole separating emotion from the physical but then I am very naive and maybe she hasn't at all.

I personally think he has a lot of deep rooted psychological issues which he ignores and has never addressed. My friend now thinks that she wasn't 'the one' for him and number 2 is as they seem more compatible so they will live happily ever after but I really can't help thinking that number two will eventually become a victim of the selfish reckless way he lives his life.

Anyway, v interesting getting your points of view on it. You all seem to have grasped the crux of the matter very quickly - suppose being objective helps rather than being in the middle of it... better than a psychologist you lot:)

Might even show her these posts one day and garner reaction which would be very telling... Kidding, shes cool and if shes not, she will come to this realisation herself. As for number 2, hope she has good friends to come to the rescue when her relationship goes south:(

SC

Chinafoot

Spiderchick wrote: »

I really can't help thinking that number two will eventually become a victim of the selfish reckless way he lives his life.

Eventually?? She already is.