DoE testing - The Last Word

Into Everything

martyc5674 wrote: »

181151 wrote: »

problem.presented today for test.tester a gentleman.result Fail.Two plates under bonnet.One a Fiat plate with the chassis no.The other plate headed ALKO KOBER AG with all weights specified.Problem as i understand it Fiat plate does not specify any wieghts.Question i have is this : how could it if they did not produce final vehicle.Nothing has been altered on this Euramobil 02 to my knowledge.The tester believes same i.e weights add up.Any suggestions welcome.

If I understand you correctly this shouldn't be an issue.
The likes of fiat who supply chassis's to reputable coach builders such as hymer euramobil can leave the plate weights blank.
The builder adds their plate depending what exactly they put on the chassis....alls good???
Maybe he just not used to motorhomes..

Marty.

Good Evening,

I'm in the same position in that I have two weight plates under the bonnet. One fiat with has a gross weight of 3,500kg and an ALKO with a gross weight of 3,850kg. I also have a hymer plate on the outside passenger which had a gross weight of 3,500kg. As far as I have been able to find out the only weight plate that can be used is the Hymer one as this was the weight plate attached after final assembly and the other weight plates were attached at different stages i.e fiat attached theirs on the production line of the cab but the cab was never attached to a chassis. The chassis was attached by alco but they didn't attached the body. Hymer attached their plate after final assembly so this is what is used. My ALCO plate doesn't have the chassis number enscribed on it and so can not be used as an official weight plate. I have mine booked in for the DOE on Tuesday but I am not expecting it to pass purely because it is on an ALCO chassis and with different weight plates and the parking brake issue. Fingers crossed.

181151

what you say makes sense.Do we know what the policy of the RSA is on this.One presumes individual testers are only working under their guidelines.How can this be resolved:(

martyc5674

Into Everything wrote: »

martyc5674 wrote: »

181151 wrote: »

problem.presented today for test.tester a gentleman.result Fail.Two plates under bonnet.One a Fiat plate with the chassis no.The other plate headed ALKO KOBER AG with all weights specified.Problem as i understand it Fiat plate does not specify any wieghts.Question i have is this : how could it if they did not produce final vehicle.Nothing has been altered on this Euramobil 02 to my knowledge.The tester believes same i.e weights add up.Any suggestions welcome.

If I understand you correctly this shouldn't be an issue.
The likes of fiat who supply chassis's to reputable coach builders such as hymer euramobil can leave the plate weights blank.
The builder adds their plate depending what exactly they put on the chassis....alls good???
Maybe he just not used to motorhomes..

Marty.

Good Evening,

I'm in the same position in that I have two weight plates under the bonnet. One fiat with has a gross weight of 3,500kg and an ALKO with a gross weight of 3,850kg. I also have a hymer plate on the outside passenger which had a gross weight of 3,500kg. As far as I have been able to find out the only weight plate that can be used is the Hymer one as this was the weight plate attached after final assembly and the other weight plates were attached at different stages i.e fiat attached theirs on the production line of the cab but the cab was never attached to a chassis. The chassis was attached by alco but they didn't attached the body. Hymer attached their plate after final assembly so this is what is used. My ALCO plate doesn't have the chassis number enscribed on it and so can not be used as an official weight plate. I have mine booked in for the DOE on Tuesday but I am not expecting it to pass purely because it is on an ALCO chassis and with different weight plates and the parking brake issue. Fingers crossed.

Yours is a different issue...
The previous poster said there was no weights on the fiat plate and the tester took issue to this and disregarded the weights on the Alko plate..

I don't think you have a problem though..your hymer plate should be good enough for them as it would have been the last plate installed.
Marty.

181151

how can an automobile manufacturer attach a specific weight to a front and back axle before the axles have been built on by hymer or euramobil.Has anyone run this by RSA:mad:

martyc5674

181151 wrote: »

how can an automobile manufacturer attach a specific weight to a front and back axle before the axles have been built on by hymer or euramobil.Has anyone run this by RSA:mad:

These are the MAX individual axle weights.

181151

I am presuming that alko or someone else put the back axle on an alko chassis after it had left fiat:(

martyc5674

181151 wrote: »

I am presuming that alko or someone else put the back axle on an alko chassis after it had left fiat:(

Yeah not really sure on the sequence of events... But your euramobil one should still have been last on and therefore the one to be believed??

Irishgoatman

I don't have weight problems, or at least my camper doesn't, but I would suggest that everyone with this problem gets on to the RSA. Pester them by 'phone.

If they get 'phone calls from half a dozen or more people they will come to realise that something needs to be sorted.

The odd one or two calls possible won't disturb them too much but numbers will.

Best of luck.

bluethunder

martyc5674 wrote: »

Cheers
Was the retest just a free visual?... I could spend my time better than swapping the spare over and back if I thought I'd have s chance of getting away with it.
Cheers
Marty.

Yeah, that would be a free re-test as far as I know. I had other problems so had to pay

Pjwal

martyc5674 wrote: »

181151 wrote: »

problem.presented today for test.tester a gentleman.result Fail.Two plates under bonnet.One a Fiat plate with the chassis no.The other plate headed ALKO KOBER AG with all weights specified.Problem as i understand it Fiat plate does not specify any wieghts.Question i have is this : how could it if they did not produce final vehicle.Nothing has been altered on this Euramobil 02 to my knowledge.The tester believes same i.e weights add up.Any suggestions welcome.

If I understand you correctly this shouldn't be an issue.
The likes of fiat who supply chassis's to reputable coach builders such as hymer euramobil can leave the plate weights blank.
The builder adds their plate depending what exactly they put on the chassis....alls good???
Maybe he just not used to motorhomes..

Marty.

I know that as a tester, in our test centre, we work off the alko plate anyway as alko have now supplyed a new chassis from the back of the cab to the rear of the vehicle and alko have fitted thier own rear axle, and alko are taking full responsabily for theese alterations, weather there are weights on the fiat plate or not, the alko weights supperceed the original plate.

niloc1951

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Rear chassis, back axle !!!!!!
Which end would that be now Mr. RSA :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRgrncUGEFQ

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Rear chassis, back axle !!!!!!
Which end would that be now Mr. RSA :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRgrncUGEFQ[/QUOTE]

I think, er, the, eh,um, person who, er, was er, doing the, um voice over on this, um video,er, needs a few lessons in public speaking.

It would have been interesting if it was not so painful to listen to.

dickwod1

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I think, er, the, eh,um, person who, er, was er, doing the, um voice over on this, um video,er, needs a few lessons in public speaking.

Well said :P

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

niloc1951 wrote: »

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Rear chassis, back axle !!!!!!
Which end would that be now Mr. RSA :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRgrncUGEFQ[/QUOTE]

I think, er, the, eh,um, person who, er, was er, doing the, um voice over on this, um video,er, needs a few lessons in public speaking.

It would have been interesting if it was not so painful to listen to.

By all means do shoot the messenger in this case, BUT the message itself should be of interest to those with 'weight problems' or expect the supplier of the cab/engine/transmission sections of a motor caravan to also provide data on the 'back end'

Irishgoatman

Yes niloc, it was interesting and top marks for finding it.

But still painful to the ear:D.

Into Everything

Just back from the VTN centre and my motorhome passed, Fiat, Alko Chassis, Hymer combination. The tester used the fiat weight plate (3500kg) He also said that I didn't need beam benders for the test as the vtn centres have been told to test them as left had drive. That was a waste of €16.

Happy Camper!!:):)

niloc1951

Into Everything wrote: »

....................................He also said that I didn't need beam benders for the test as the vtn centres have been told to test them as left had drive. That was a waste of €16.

Happy Camper!!:):)

Crap

Your headlights are not legal for use in countries which drive on the left, end of.
Please put on the beam benders otherwise you will be dazzling oncoming drivers unless you are using your vehicle on mainland Europe.

Aidan_M_M

Exactly , it's not always about the letter of the law , sometimes you have to behave with common , ethical sense.

Pjwal

niloc1951 wrote: »

Into Everything wrote:

....................................He also said that I didn't need beam benders for the test as the vtn centres have been told to test them as left had drive. That was a waste of €16.

Happy Camper!!:):)

Crap

Your headlights are not legal for use in countries which drive on the left, end of.
Please put on the beam benders otherwise you will be dazzling oncoming drivers unless you are using your vehicle on mainland Europe.

Yes. I think that tester was very wrong there. Vtn centres were told the opposite to that.

*Kol*

niloc1951 wrote: »

Crap

Your headlights are not legal for use in countries which drive on the left, end of.
Please put on the beam benders otherwise you will be dazzling oncoming drivers unless you are using your vehicle on mainland Europe.

I used black electrical tape on my lights and it passed no problem and I'm not dazzling anybody. Cheap solution.

The Bishop Basher

Into Everything wrote: »

He also said that I didn't need beam benders for the test as the vtn centres have been told to test them as left had drive. That was a waste of €16.

Happy Camper!!:):)

What a farce. Typically Irish. Absolutley no consitency.

Like *kol* I used black tape and it will be staying on even though i rarely drive the camper at night.

Into everything please do everyone else the courtesy of leaving the benders on

Pjwal

weight plates.
hey guys. some news just in this morning. in an unusual display from the rsa, they have given a clear and precise answer to an issue. if you have an older camper that only has an original manufacteres plate, and not an extra alko plate, but the original plate has had the axle or gvw weight upped to a higher weight, we are to revert back to the original weights, and ignore the alterations. most campers will weigh in light enough to pass the test on this basses, but some will be too heavy, so the best advice i can give is to have the camper as light as possable, empty water tanks and remove gas tanks, because if it is over the original weights, it will have to fail.

corkbuoy

Pjwal wrote: »

weight plates.
hey guys. some news just in this morning. in an unusual display from the rsa, they have given a clear and precise answer to an issue. if you have an older camper that only has an original manufacteres plate, and not an extra alko plate, but the original plate has had the axle or gvw weight upped to a higher weight, we are to revert back to the original weights, and ignore the alterations. most campers will weigh in light enough to pass the test on this basses, but some will be too heavy, so the best advice i can give is to have the camper as light as possable, empty water tanks and remove gas tanks, because if it is over the original weights, it will have to fail.

Thats not really a solution for many, for example in my case the weight plate was changed from 3500 to 3800, but it weighs just under 3500 when empty. Add some gear, water, passengers and it is illegal to drive as it will be over the max gross weight of 3500.

Pjwal

corkbuoy wrote: »

Thats not really a solution for many, for example in my case the weight plate was changed from 3500 to 3800, but it weighs just under 3500 when empty. Add some gear, water, passengers and it is illegal to drive as it will be over the max gross weight of 3500.

yes, i agree, its not a solution to the weight problem on the road, but it a solution to getting a lot of people over the first hurdle of getting through the test,my own plate was changed from 2800 to 3100, so i have to revert back to 2800 which is pretty low. your plate been changed from 3500 to 3800 is not a common change that we ve come across,

niloc1951

Pjwal wrote: »

weight plates.
hey guys. some news just in this morning. in an unusual display from the rsa, they have given a clear and precise answer to an issue. if you have an older camper that only has an original manufacteres plate, and not an extra alko plate, but the original plate has had the axle or gvw weight upped to a higher weight, we are to revert back to the original weights, and ignore the alterations. most campers will weigh in light enough to pass the test on this basses, but some will be too heavy, so the best advice i can give is to have the camper as light as possable, empty water tanks and remove gas tanks, because if it is over the original weights, it will have to fail.

This appears to be another 'convenient' RSA solution.
However, according to DIRECTIVE 2007/46/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL the 'original manufacturer' of my Rapido is Rapido Camping-cars BP.19 53101 Mayenne France and not FIAT who supplied the front chassis section, engine, transmission, suspension and dashboard.
I expect the same rule applies to HYMER, TEC, Burstner, etc. etc. etc.
So, it now looks like the RSA are rewriting the above EU Directive instead of recognising that some manufacturers have in the past taken the lazy/cheap way out and amended the plate fixed by the supplier of the base vehicle component of the 'whole vehicle'.

A common sense solution would be to accept a revised GVW however it is presented subject to it not exceeding the sum of the axle weights provided they themselves have not been altered.
The RSA should acquaint themselves with the fact that changing the GVW upwards but remaining within the axle capabilities is/was common practice in the industry.

The 'problem' raised by the RSA does not seem to be a problem to the authorities charged to test motor caravans in other countries as can be attested to by the imports which arrived here with the plates now causing difficulties but which passed testing in their country of origin.

Yes, a very Irish situation :mad::mad:

Pjwal

niloc1951 wrote: »

This appears to be another 'convenient' RSA solution.
However, according to DIRECTIVE 2007/46/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL the 'original manufacturer' of my Rapido is Rapido Camping-cars BP.19 53101 Mayenne France and not FIAT who supplied the front chassis section, engine, transmission, suspension and dashboard.
I expect the same rule applies to HYMER, TEC, Burstner, etc. etc. etc.
So, it now looks like the RSA are rewriting the above EU Directive instead of recognising that some manufacturers have in the past taken the lazy/cheap way out and amended the plate fixed by the supplier of the base vehicle component of the 'whole vehicle'.

A common sense solution would be to accept a revised GVW however it is presented subject to it not exceeding the sum of the axle weights provided they themselves have not been altered.
The RSA should acquaint themselves with the fact that changing the GVW upwards but remaining within the axle capabilities is/was common practice in the industry.

The 'problem' raised by the RSA does not seem to be a problem to the authorities charged to test motor caravans in other countries as can be attested to by the imports which arrived here with the plates now causing difficulties but which passed testing in their country of origin.

Yes, a very Irish situation :mad::mad:

dealing with the rsa on a daily basis is a nightmare, and this is very typical of them, as i said before, they dive in with thier own version of the rules and regulations when itroducing something new, and then over time they have to retract, back down and change everything, they claim to do research and hold consultation but in reality, they take very little info and advice on board, it has happened many times in the past with other things, and if a question over the quality of a test pops up, they are very fast to come and tell you the proper rules and tell the tester exactly where he went wrong. rant over;) but yesit is a typical solution, they would never consider researching it deep enough to find the correct procedure. but the one thing i can say about the changes on alot of the plates is that the alteration of the weight is very amateur looking, scriped on to the plate, not straight or with uniform sized digits and sometimes it even looks as it could be scrapped on with a nail.

Irishgoatman

As per my post #429, I know this isn't my problem and probably shouldn't get involved, but I find it interesting.

I have to say that I don't see signs that anyone, other than testers, has been in touch directly with the RSA!. Why not? surely that is the way to go.

Get the info directly from the horses mouth, after making sure that the horse knows what the problem is of course.
Most testers will not be campervan/motorhome owners so will not fully appreciate the problem.

OuterBombie

Got my van tested during the week in JJ Flemings in Galway.

During the braking test one of my front brake cables severed as it had been corroded! :eek: I'm counting myself lucky that it didn't happen which out on the road. Plus one for the RSA on that one.

Flemings replaced both front cables, updated the brake fluid and also re-checked an imbalance in my back brakes and after all that re-tested and passed me.

I was expecting a large bill but it was very reasonable so pretty happy its been resolved, kudos to Flemings.

I also left beam benders in the cab and the tester fitted them.

Time to plan some weekend trips, bring on the summer (I hope :-))

OB.

Aidan_M_M

as a matter of curiousity , is it long since the MH was serviced?

OuterBombie

Ye guys gave it a full service about a year and a half ago.