buying a 2nd hand car -- haggling

Anan1

KinchTheBlade wrote: »

I genuinely have no problem with the such a position so long as its disclosed before the viewing not after the viewing. Maybe I'm naiive but if somebody has decided that the most they'll spend is 84% of what I'm asking then I'd like to know that beforehand and respond accordingly so I can decide whether to spend my time showing, it.

I see your point, but the seller can't know what they're prepared to pay until they've see the car.

KinchTheBlade

Anan1 wrote: »

I see your point, but the seller can't know what they're prepared to pay until they've see the car.

And, by the same token they can't know that they're only prepared to pay 84% of it. I have no problem with only paying 84% of it so long as one is capable of paying 100% should it be warranted. Surely anything else is timewasting or at least manipulation of the process

firefly08

So then I add 20% on top of what I think is a realistic price, the buyer brings 84% of that and job done - is that it?

The idea is, you never know - the buyer might bring anything up to 100% of the price. In fact really sharp sellers have some other stuff lying around for those rare buyers who show up with more than 100% of the price.

Equally, from the buyer's point of view, you never know what the seller is really willing to settle for. It could vary from 0% off the asking price to 50%!

Personally, I try to avoid low-balling sellers on cars. Not because I don't want to negotiate a lower price, but because I want to save myself the trouble - so I do the legwork up front and try to find the special deals. You need to find the guy who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. These will be mostly private sellers.

The best negotiation is the one you don't have to do. To put it another way, if you can find a car advertised for 4000 and get it for 2500, then chances are you probably could have found one advertised for around 2500-3000 in the first place if you looked hard enough. It's a matter of personal preference - some people are better at cold reading, others are better at researching up front.

That said, you always look for something off the price.

KinchTheBlade

firefly08 wrote: »

The idea is, you never know - the buyer might bring anything up to 100% of the price. In fact really sharp sellers have some other stuff lying around for those rare buyers who show up with more than 100% of the price.

Equally, from the buyer's point of view, you never know what the seller is really willing to settle for. It could vary from 0% off the asking price to 50%!

Personally, I try to avoid low-balling sellers on cars. Not because I don't want to negotiate a lower price, but because I want to save myself the trouble - so I do the legwork up front and try to find the special deals. You need to find the guy who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. These will be mostly private sellers.

The best negotiation is the one you don't have to do. To put it another way, if you can find a car advertised for 4000 and get it for 2500, then chances are you probably could have found one advertised for around 2500-3000 in the first place if you looked hard enough. It's a matter of personal preference - some people are better at cold reading, others are better at researching up front.

That said, you always look for something off the price.

Interesting points for sure but here's the thing that doesn't add up for me...

If I'm a guy "who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. " then I will do as you suggest advertise for 2500, not for 4000. This gives me the advantage I'm the cheapest but leaves me very little downward pricing options

If I'm the guy "...willing to settle for ...50%!"
then I've either inflated my asking or I'm desperate to sell.
In either case wouldn't I be better to reduce it by the 50% up front to gain the advantage of being ahead of the pack (or worse again x% behind it) but again, leaves me very little downward pricing options

Of course one expects some discount, and that is entirely reasonable in general terms

The whole thing strikes me as irrational but what do I know -like I said I'm just a noob who's considering selling a car privately for the first time

Anan1

KinchTheBlade wrote: »

And, by the same token they can't know that they're only prepared to pay 84% of it. I have no problem with only paying 84% of it so long as one is capable of paying 100% should it be warranted. Surely anything else is timewasting or at least manipulation of the process

Going to see a car one can't afford is timewasting, but what can you as a seller do about it? Besides gradually honing your people reading skills over the years, not much.:)

KinchTheBlade

Anan1 wrote: »

Going to see a car one can't afford is timewasting, but what can you as a seller do about it? Besides gradually honing your people reading skills over the years, not much.:)

Interesting (and maybe O/T) , are there questions you'd ask over the phone or by email that might prompt you to say the car is sold or some other time saving device (i.e. lie)

I'm pondering selling my m5 and was considering asking if the potential viewers has a full license, or was over 25 etc. again, to save time. Then I thought that perhaps it might be a bit presumptuous.

barura

Anan1 wrote: »

Going to see a car one can't afford is timewasting, but what can you as a seller do about it? Besides gradually honing your people reading skills over the years, not much.:)

Well, I would intend on having the whole amount in case it was worth the asking price. What I meant in my post is that, I find that haggling with only so much in my possession at the time, makes me a better haggler. I'm not saying my method works by any means, but it's a good sort of mental block.

mad muffin

I've never seen a car advertised for its true asking price unless it was a banger. Dealers add a couple of thousand for over heads and profit and private sellers add a couple of hundred for the hagglers.

KinchTheBlade

mad muffin wrote: »

I've never seen a car advertised for its true asking price unless it was a banger. Dealers add a couple of thousand for over heads and profit and private sellers add a couple of hundred for the hagglers.

It seems to me that the vital first step is to determine the correct market value, "add a couple of hundred for the hagglers" , subtract some % for competitive advantage and then stick at that (minus the haggle money) until it sells or cold hard reality tells you that your "correct market value" needs a rethink.

Then at least the ritual of haggling has some basis in reality in that its centred around some value that is reasonable and the buyer can then enjoy using all his cunning ploys and strategems to extract maximum value

EDIT: I feel I may have hijacked the thread somewhat, turning from a buyer's haggling thread to a seller's strategy thread. Apologies for that!

firefly08

If I'm a guy "who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. " then I will do as you suggest advertise for 2500, not for 4000. This gives me the advantage I'm the cheapest but leaves me very little downward pricing options

If I'm the guy "...willing to settle for ...50%!"
then I've either inflated my asking or I'm desperate to sell.
In either case wouldn't I be better to reduce it by the 50% up front to gain the advantage of being ahead of the pack (or worse again x% behind it) but again, leaves me very little downward pricing options

It depends on what is most important to you. If you are prepared to deal with hagglers and possibly having to turn a few people away, for the chance of getting a good price - and you're not in a mad hurry to sell, then offer it for maybe 20% or 25% more that you're willing to settle for. You might end up having to settle for rock bottom, but you might not, it all depends on the buyer.

On the other hand, if you want to maximize your chances getting a call today and selling the car to the first guy who sees it, price it as low as possible and don't budge much on the price. But be aware that this is a gamble too - you could have to turn someone away because he can't accept that you won't knock 25% off the price. That same guy might have bought it if you'd started higher and allowed him to beat you down. It'll be his loss, but he won't know that.

My preference is for the second of these 2 strategies, and as a buyer I prefer to deal with people who use that approach.

KinchTheBlade

firefly08 wrote: »

It depends on what is most important to you. If you are prepared to deal with hagglers and possibly having to turn a few people away, for the chance of getting a good price - and you're not in a mad hurry to sell, then offer it for maybe 20% or 25% more that you're willing to settle for. You might end up having to settle for rock bottom, but you might not, it all depends on the buyer.

On the other hand, if you want to maximize your chances getting a call today and selling the car to the first guy who sees it, price it as low as possible and don't budge much on the price. But be aware that this is a gamble too - you could have to turn someone away because he can't accept that you won't knock 25% off the price. That same guy might have bought it if you'd started higher and allowed him to beat you down. It'll be his loss, but he won't know that.

My preference is for the second of these 2 strategies, and as a buyer I prefer to deal with people who use that approach.

This would be my preferred approach too - find a fair price (and having read this thread) add a little for the optics and mandatory haggling and pretty much stick to it within defined parameters. The pain starts when the buyer assumes you're using strategy 1 and the seller is using strategy 2

Jammy Donut

I'v bought cars for half the asking price.... €1k ish cars.

Don't come across as a prat with the offer, Have a look at the car let them know your interested. Be friendly with them, Ask what they replaced it with how they find the new car etc..
Then pick any little negatives with the car, When was it last serviced? Little scratches (But put it the way that it look a lovely well minded car if the scratches were done, instead of I expect a new showroom car way)

Be friendly with the seller, Look I don't really want to insult you but realistically I want to be spending €X amount, I like the car and I'll spend that extra few pound to get her mint.

Only once has a seller told me to **** off, BUT I kept it calm explained my situation, apolagised for insulting him and bought the car for another €50.

It amazes me why people pay near to full asking for something when they can get money off.


Some may think I come across as a 'Tyre Kicker' but it's never a stupidly rare car I'm looking at plenty more on DoneDeal.

macroman

I was selling a car for €2200, buyer came to look, took a test drive and asked me my lowest price. €1800 - not a penny less was my response. Dropping €400 off the price is a fair discount in my opinion.

He followed with "well I only brought €1200 with me" and took out a wad of fifties and began counting them under my nose. Told him to come back when he has another €600 to go with it, and eventually another €550 was produced from his back pocket when he realized I wasn't playing into his hands! Let him have a little victory in getting another €50 off the car :P

If I'm ever going to look at a car I'll bring what I genuinely think it's worth, I'll bargain but won't resort to Mike Brewer, Arthur Daly style tactics.

skippy2

Am looking at buying as 2nd hand BMW from uk shortly
Is there any haggling to be done with "main dealers" in uk
Is their advertised price "it" as they dont seem to want to move much
Mind you hard to haggle over the phone
Do not want to buy private from UK
Any suggestions from anyone or do you just go with the advertised prices maybe get a couple of hundred off

firefly08

Mind you hard to haggle over the phone
Do not want to buy private from UK
Any suggestions from anyone or do you just go with the advertised prices maybe get a couple of hundred off

It's very difficult to haggle over the phone. To haggle successfully, you have to have credibility. Talking to a UK dealer who you've never met, on the phone from another country...he's going to have a hard time taking you seriously. On the other hand, you don't want to travel over there until you're happy with the price. Tricky. I bought my last car from a very long distance away, and although it was the same country, I am a foreigner here (US) and it was hard. The guy assumed a foreigner calling from over 1000 miles away probably = a scam of some kind. So I spent some time building up some trust and managed to beat him down on price a bit, pending a pre-purchase inspection. But I still had to accept that I was never going to get the deal I could have gotten if it was local, and I certainly couldn't fly down there until we had an agreement on price.

Having the dealer take the car to an independent garage for an inspection at your expense goes some way towards your credibility, since it's costing you money. Then you can negotiate based on the facts from the inspection report - you'll be talking about issues that the seller knows about, and he knows you're not bull****ting him. But it has to be a car that's in your ballpark price to begin with for this kind of dealing imo.

Do not want to buy private from UK

I don't see how you'd be any worse off - I can't imagine a dealer's warranty being much use to you back home, and private owners are good at looking after their cars over there, or so I'm told.

dr.fuzzenstein

macroman wrote: »

I was selling a car for €2200, buyer came to look, took a test drive and asked me my lowest price. €1800 - not a penny less was my response. Dropping €400 off the price is a fair discount in my opinion.

You never want to give a straight answer to that one, that's putting your cards on the table.
Best reply would be something like "I was hoping to get near enough to it" or "what's your best offer", but if you tell them the lowest you're willing to accept, they see this as your new maximum offer and try to haggle downwards from there.

Jammy Donut

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You never want to give a straight answer to that one, that's putting your cards on the table.
Best reply would be something like "I was hoping to get near enough to it" or "what's your best offer", but if you tell them the lowest you're willing to accept, they see this as your new maximum offer and try to haggle downwards from there.

If someone asks my lowest, They are told €X.. that's it no less and don't bother coming with less as they will not get the car. I make it quiet clear.

When they come, I know I have nothing to hide on the car as I'd have already told them all the details. If they offer less I refer to what I told them beforehand. I receive the full amount.. If they come, look it over and are happy with it and pay the full amount without hesitation. I'll give them €20/€50 back for petrol money.

PauloMN

Jammy Donut wrote: »

I'v bought cars for half the asking price.... €1k ish cars.

Don't come across as a prat with the offer, Have a look at the car let them know your interested. Be friendly with them, Ask what they replaced it with how they find the new car etc..
Then pick any little negatives with the car, When was it last serviced? Little scratches (But put it the way that it look a lovely well minded car if the scratches were done, instead of I expect a new showroom car way)

Be friendly with the seller, Look I don't really want to insult you but realistically I want to be spending €X amount, I like the car and I'll spend that extra few pound to get her mint.

Only once has a seller told me to **** off, BUT I kept it calm explained my situation, apolagised for insulting him and bought the car for another €50.

It amazes me why people pay near to full asking for something when they can get money off.


Some may think I come across as a 'Tyre Kicker' but it's never a stupidly rare car I'm looking at plenty more on DoneDeal.

If you ever buy a car from Limerick Man, give me a shout first... I'd love to see how that transaction would go lol!

L-M

Jammy Donut wrote: »

I'v bought cars for half the asking price.... €1k ish cars.

Don't come across as a prat with the offer, Have a look at the car let them know your interested. Be friendly with them, Ask what they replaced it with how they find the new car etc..
Then pick any little negatives with the car, When was it last serviced? Little scratches (But put it the way that it look a lovely well minded car if the scratches were done, instead of I expect a new showroom car way)

Be friendly with the seller, Look I don't really want to insult you but realistically I want to be spending €X amount, I like the car and I'll spend that extra few pound to get her mint.

Only once has a seller told me to **** off, BUT I kept it calm explained my situation, apolagised for insulting him and bought the car for another €50.

It amazes me why people pay near to full asking for something when they can get money off.


Some may think I come across as a 'Tyre Kicker' but it's never a stupidly rare car I'm looking at plenty more on DoneDeal.

You sound very annoying!

Jammy Donut

PauloMN wrote: »

If you ever buy a car from Limerick Man, give me a shout first... I'd love to see how that transaction would go lol!

Lol, The way I see it is... I'm out to buy a car for as cheap as possible not to make friends, There's plenty for sale and if I insult a few people so what? End of the day I'll eventually get a car I'm happy with for a bargain price.

Don't see the point in giving anymore money than I need to, That money saved can then be used for Tyres/Service etc...

Jammy Donut

Limerick man wrote: »

You sound very annoying!

Fair enough.

But their is serious bargains out there to be had!

Obviously I ain't gonna completely waste my time and offer €500 if it's up for €1500 but I would offer €500 if it was €950.

L-M

Car dependant, obviously.

PauloMN

Limerick man wrote: »

You sound very annoying!

At least he's polite with his dealings!

dr.fuzzenstein

Jammy Donut wrote: »

If someone asks my lowest, They are told €X.. that's it no less and don't bother coming with less as they will not get the car. I make it quiet clear.

When they come, I know I have nothing to hide on the car as I'd have already told them all the details. If they offer less I refer to what I told them beforehand. I receive the full amount.. If they come, look it over and are happy with it and pay the full amount without hesitation. I'll give them €20/€50 back for petrol money.

What I'm saying is that if I sell a car for €2000 and the guy asks me what is my lowest and I say €1500, that's what I'm going to get.
But if I say "I want to get as close to €2k as possible", I might get €1800 out of him.
No point just telling them your minimum, it'll cost you.