buying a 2nd hand car -- haggling

trixyben

ok say you were buying a 2nd hand car and it was priced at €3,500

you go look at car, take for test drive, happy car is 100%

now you decide you would like car and time to talk about price

so how would you haggle on the price and what strategies do you have up your slieve to get the price down? Now we all know that sellers expect to knock a bit off but for the buyer what do you say to get that bit more and seal the deal???

Anan1

Start off by putting the asking price aside and working out what the car's worth, both in the open market and to you. I've bought some cars at deep discounts, and i've paid full asking for others.

trixyben

trixyben wrote: »

................ for the buyer what do you say to get that bit more and seal the deal???

A bit like asking Messi how does he score goals really imo

trixyben

RoverJames wrote: »

A bit like asking Messi how does he score goals really imo

Messi would tell ya no problem

trixyben

trixyben wrote: »

Messi would tell ya no problem

......... but would you be able to put the words into play and get the goals too :pac:

kildare.17hmr

Watch pawn stars, them boys can haggle

giant_midget

**puts on adverts.ie hat*

"I'll give ye €700...what ye reckon" :pac:

mad muffin

If you've got cash and no trade in, you've got a good start and always ask them first, what is the best price they can offer, not what you're willing to pay.

Knock a few hundred off that then and see how it goes from there.

Daved_XB

Someone once told me that if your not ashamed of your first offer your offering too much.....

L-M

i was selling my last car (Golf) for 1900. i met him in a petrol station. Drove it, everything was perfect, no complaints and then he offered me €1,100.

Said nothing, just walked over, got into my car and drove home. He text me offering me more but i chose to ignore.

You have to plan carefully, try sussing the seller out. irrelevant to market value every seller has a "lowest they'll go price" and a "that's low enough to insult me" price.

it's about individual cars, and individual sellers.

r3nu4l

mad muffin wrote: »

If you've got cash and no trade in, you've got a good start and always ask them first, what is the best price they can offer, not what you're willing to pay.

Knock a few hundred off that then and see how it goes from there.

This is the approach I used just over a week ago.

I told him I couldn't pay the asking price and asked him for his best price.

We both knew that the next words out of his mouth would be far from his best price but we played the game anyway and he gave me a price.

I paused, thoughtfully pursed my lips and rubbed my chin before saying that I just couldn't go as high as that best price and asking could he possibly do better giving him a figure about 800 lower than his best price.

It was then his turn to look regretful, sigh and say 'There's no way I can give it to you for that.

I upped by 400, he asked for 100 more, I said 'Yes', he shook my hand and we both went away happy

It's very rare but sometimes the dealer will present you with his best price first time around but to be honest, if you've done your research you'll know it's a good price and go for it or try to knock another 100 or so off it.

Satanta

Depends on the car and the seller. I've got very good discounts on car's and then in other situations, even starting with the usual slightly cheeky offer, having to come quite near asking.

Then from a sellers perspective, I priced the last car I sold so that it would sell. I had a couple of guys offering stupid money saying they wouldnt budge much above it and I wouldnt get what I was asking in the current climate blah blah. Fair enough I said. No sale. Ended up taking very close to asking on it because I know it was worth what I was asking.

dr.fuzzenstein

This is how it works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA

david

It's completely dependant on how well the car is priced. I'd have no problem paying full asking if I felt it was worth it.

Just purely from personal experience with tyre kickers, I would never offer silly (insulting) money expecting them to meet half way. I tell them straight out what I'm willing to pay, if they don't bite I'll walk, leave them my number and tell them to call me if/when they reconsider. Works in Curry's too

Henry Ford III

Yep. If the car is worth €3500 be prepared to pay that. If it's advertised for €4000 but worth €3500 offer €3000, and try and meet in the middle.

kildare.17hmr

Limerick man wrote: »

i was selling my last car (Golf) for 1900. i met him in a petrol station. Drove it, everything was perfect, no complaints and then he offered me €1,100.

Said nothing, just walked over, got into my car and drove home. He text me offering me more but i chose to ignore.

You have to plan carefully, try sussing the seller out. irrelevant to market value every seller has a "lowest they'll go price" and a "that's low enough to insult me" price.

it's about individual cars, and individual sellers.

You should really work on your negotiating skills!

L-M

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

You should really work on your negotiating skills!

Sold the car for €1,750 the next day, there's nothing wrong with my negoiation skills. i don't have very, very little time for arseholes.

Jimdagym

Limerick man wrote: »

Sold the car for €1,750 the next day, there's nothing wrong with my negoiation skills. i don't have very, very little time for arseholes.

You have a lot of time for arseholes???

giant_midget

Limerick man wrote: »

Sold the car for €1,750 the next day, there's nothing wrong with my negoiation skills. i don't have very, very little time for arseholes.

your dam right, all this what's the best cash price stuff is tyre kicker talk...you saw my add for my car for €2,000 so bring €2,000 with you when viewing, people expecting some sort of discount on a "cash sale" of a car of this value...:rolleyes:

if i was selling something for 2k id expect 1700 to be paid to me...

Colts

I tend to ask for their best price, negotiate down a little and then use any small issues with the car to get it down a little further, ie. scuffed alloys, marked bumpers, problems with upholstery etc.

KinchTheBlade

Limerick man wrote: »

i was selling my last car (Golf) for 1900. i met him in a petrol station. Drove it, everything was perfect, no complaints and then he offered me €1,100.

Said nothing, just walked over, got into my car and drove home. He text me offering me more but i chose to ignore.
QUOTE]

I think this is just incredible.
Asa potential seller, is it the done thing to ask a potential buyer what their minimum offer is before accepting an appointment to view? Is there any point - would it have saved Limerickman the inconvenience?

L-M

KinchTheBlade wrote: »

I think this is just incredible.
Asa potential seller, is it the done thing to ask a potential buyer what their minimum offer is before accepting an appointment to view? Is there any point - would it have saved Limerickman the inconvenience?

Doesn't bother me, i'll never travel more than 5 miles to meet someone (again from bad experience), it's up to the seller if they want to travel from Cork to Limerick to try and waste my time.

KinchTheBlade

Well you're clearly a more patient man than I am.

barura

3500? If it was perfect, offer 2800 and then settle for 3100/3200. It's always nice to go out with what you plan to spend in your pocket. I mean, don't let the haggle get the best of you. If you were going the bangernomics route, for example, and were viewing a car that was up for 800, bring 675 in you pocket and then your haggle is easy since you cannot spend more than you have! If you go over, then you're not haggling! I've viewed cars with 650 asking and got them for 400 and 350 for the other one time because the guy liked me! It's all on how you play it.

On the other hand, going to view a 2k car with 800euro would just be fooling yourself and wasting bother your, and the sellers time.

KinchTheBlade

barura wrote: »

3500? If it was perfect, offer 2800 and then settle for 3100/3200. It's always nice to go out with what you plan to spend in your pocket. I mean, don't let the haggle get the best of you. If you were going the bangernomics route, for example, and were viewing a car that was up for 800, bring 675 in you pocket and then your haggle is easy since you cannot spend more than you have! If you go over, then you're not haggling! I've viewed cars with 650 asking and got them for 400 and 350 for the other one time because the guy liked me! It's all on how you play it.

On the other hand, going to view a 2k car with 800euro would just be fooling yourself and wasting bother your, and the sellers time.

Not trying to be provocative and I know that the world will not change to suit my view of how things should be but...this whole thing strikes me as a stupid, if inevitable, game. The seller then adds x% to the price he wants to account for the ritual haggling. 675 is 84% of the asking before negotiations even start.
If I had priced something at a realistic price to have someone come and view while secretly being in a locked in postion at 84% (short of going to an ATM) would in my opinion be acting in bad faith and would be a waste of my time. Just my opinion.

So then I add 20% on top of what I think is a realistic price, the buyer brings 84% of that and job done - is that it?

Neilw

Last car I bought was advertised at €4250, offered €2800 and bought it for €3000.

barura

KinchTheBlade wrote: »

Not trying to be provocative and I know that the world will not change to suit my view of how things should be but...this whole thing strikes me as a stupid, if inevitable, game. The seller then adds x% to the price he wants to account for the ritual haggling. 675 is 84% of the asking before negotiations even start.
If I had priced something at a realistic price to have someone come and view while secretly being in a locked in postion at 84% (short of going to an ATM) would in my opinion be acting in bad faith and would be a waste of my time. Just my opinion.

So then I add 20% on top of what I think is a realistic price, the buyer brings 84% of that and job done - is that it?

Unless the car is something special that you must have, I don't see a problem with that, no. Not at that price range, and people do want money straight up, so it's not such a problem in that sense.

Bringing this amount of money is a solid way of just making you think like you only have that much to spend. It may be a bit cheeky, but I can't see a problem with it. Asking for 15%~ off a car isn't unreasonable, especially if you argue your case in a mature and reasonable fashion.

Then again, I've spent a long time of my short life dealing with people haggling with me over services I provided as a sound engineer... Basically, if the seller isn't completely wet behind the ears, they'll have a price that they know they need to get and anything else is a bonus on top of that.

Anan1

Negotiation is impossible to condense into a formula, it's essentially about reading the other person.

KinchTheBlade

Neilw wrote: »

Last car I bought was advertised at €4250, offered €2800 and bought it for €3000.

Is that representative of the game at large (What was fair value for the car, his price, your price or in the middle) or is it just representative of the market as it stands in Ireland in 2011?

Neilw

KinchTheBlade wrote: »

Is that representative of the game at large (What was fair value for the car, his price, your price or in the middle) or is it just representative of the market as it stands in Ireland in 2011?

I think it was more to do with the type of car and time of year, was an mx5 and I bought it during the bad weather early 2011. He wanted €3800 cash for it but I bargained him down to €3000.

KinchTheBlade

barura wrote: »

Unless the car is something special that you must have, I don't see a problem with that, no. Not at that price range, and people do want money straight up, so it's not such a problem in that sense.
QUOTE]

I genuinely have no problem with the such a position so long as its disclosed before the viewing not after the viewing. Maybe I'm naiive but if somebody has decided that the most they'll spend is 84% of what I'm asking then I'd like to know that beforehand and respond accordingly so I can decide whether to spend my time showing, it.
84% max leaves no room for negotiation except 84% or less or the deal falling through, having never had a chance of success if the vendor was determined to accept no less than, let's say, 90% of asking.

Anyway, like I said, inflating the asking seems to be the simple solution.

Anan1

KinchTheBlade wrote: »

I genuinely have no problem with the such a position so long as its disclosed before the viewing not after the viewing. Maybe I'm naiive but if somebody has decided that the most they'll spend is 84% of what I'm asking then I'd like to know that beforehand and respond accordingly so I can decide whether to spend my time showing, it.

I see your point, but the seller can't know what they're prepared to pay until they've see the car.

KinchTheBlade

Anan1 wrote: »

I see your point, but the seller can't know what they're prepared to pay until they've see the car.

And, by the same token they can't know that they're only prepared to pay 84% of it. I have no problem with only paying 84% of it so long as one is capable of paying 100% should it be warranted. Surely anything else is timewasting or at least manipulation of the process

firefly08

So then I add 20% on top of what I think is a realistic price, the buyer brings 84% of that and job done - is that it?

The idea is, you never know - the buyer might bring anything up to 100% of the price. In fact really sharp sellers have some other stuff lying around for those rare buyers who show up with more than 100% of the price.

Equally, from the buyer's point of view, you never know what the seller is really willing to settle for. It could vary from 0% off the asking price to 50%!

Personally, I try to avoid low-balling sellers on cars. Not because I don't want to negotiate a lower price, but because I want to save myself the trouble - so I do the legwork up front and try to find the special deals. You need to find the guy who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. These will be mostly private sellers.

The best negotiation is the one you don't have to do. To put it another way, if you can find a car advertised for 4000 and get it for 2500, then chances are you probably could have found one advertised for around 2500-3000 in the first place if you looked hard enough. It's a matter of personal preference - some people are better at cold reading, others are better at researching up front.

That said, you always look for something off the price.

KinchTheBlade

firefly08 wrote: »

The idea is, you never know - the buyer might bring anything up to 100% of the price. In fact really sharp sellers have some other stuff lying around for those rare buyers who show up with more than 100% of the price.

Equally, from the buyer's point of view, you never know what the seller is really willing to settle for. It could vary from 0% off the asking price to 50%!

Personally, I try to avoid low-balling sellers on cars. Not because I don't want to negotiate a lower price, but because I want to save myself the trouble - so I do the legwork up front and try to find the special deals. You need to find the guy who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. These will be mostly private sellers.

The best negotiation is the one you don't have to do. To put it another way, if you can find a car advertised for 4000 and get it for 2500, then chances are you probably could have found one advertised for around 2500-3000 in the first place if you looked hard enough. It's a matter of personal preference - some people are better at cold reading, others are better at researching up front.

That said, you always look for something off the price.

Interesting points for sure but here's the thing that doesn't add up for me...

If I'm a guy "who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. " then I will do as you suggest advertise for 2500, not for 4000. This gives me the advantage I'm the cheapest but leaves me very little downward pricing options

If I'm the guy "...willing to settle for ...50%!"
then I've either inflated my asking or I'm desperate to sell.
In either case wouldn't I be better to reduce it by the 50% up front to gain the advantage of being ahead of the pack (or worse again x% behind it) but again, leaves me very little downward pricing options

Of course one expects some discount, and that is entirely reasonable in general terms

The whole thing strikes me as irrational but what do I know -like I said I'm just a noob who's considering selling a car privately for the first time

Anan1

KinchTheBlade wrote: »

And, by the same token they can't know that they're only prepared to pay 84% of it. I have no problem with only paying 84% of it so long as one is capable of paying 100% should it be warranted. Surely anything else is timewasting or at least manipulation of the process

Going to see a car one can't afford is timewasting, but what can you as a seller do about it? Besides gradually honing your people reading skills over the years, not much.:)

KinchTheBlade

Anan1 wrote: »

Going to see a car one can't afford is timewasting, but what can you as a seller do about it? Besides gradually honing your people reading skills over the years, not much.:)

Interesting (and maybe O/T) , are there questions you'd ask over the phone or by email that might prompt you to say the car is sold or some other time saving device (i.e. lie)

I'm pondering selling my m5 and was considering asking if the potential viewers has a full license, or was over 25 etc. again, to save time. Then I thought that perhaps it might be a bit presumptuous.

barura

Anan1 wrote: »

Going to see a car one can't afford is timewasting, but what can you as a seller do about it? Besides gradually honing your people reading skills over the years, not much.:)

Well, I would intend on having the whole amount in case it was worth the asking price. What I meant in my post is that, I find that haggling with only so much in my possession at the time, makes me a better haggler. I'm not saying my method works by any means, but it's a good sort of mental block.

mad muffin

I've never seen a car advertised for its true asking price unless it was a banger. Dealers add a couple of thousand for over heads and profit and private sellers add a couple of hundred for the hagglers.

KinchTheBlade

mad muffin wrote: »

I've never seen a car advertised for its true asking price unless it was a banger. Dealers add a couple of thousand for over heads and profit and private sellers add a couple of hundred for the hagglers.

It seems to me that the vital first step is to determine the correct market value, "add a couple of hundred for the hagglers" , subtract some % for competitive advantage and then stick at that (minus the haggle money) until it sells or cold hard reality tells you that your "correct market value" needs a rethink.

Then at least the ritual of haggling has some basis in reality in that its centred around some value that is reasonable and the buyer can then enjoy using all his cunning ploys and strategems to extract maximum value

EDIT: I feel I may have hijacked the thread somewhat, turning from a buyer's haggling thread to a seller's strategy thread. Apologies for that!

firefly08

If I'm a guy "who wants to put his car ahead of the rest, and is willing to take a hit in price to make sure it sells. " then I will do as you suggest advertise for 2500, not for 4000. This gives me the advantage I'm the cheapest but leaves me very little downward pricing options

If I'm the guy "...willing to settle for ...50%!"
then I've either inflated my asking or I'm desperate to sell.
In either case wouldn't I be better to reduce it by the 50% up front to gain the advantage of being ahead of the pack (or worse again x% behind it) but again, leaves me very little downward pricing options

It depends on what is most important to you. If you are prepared to deal with hagglers and possibly having to turn a few people away, for the chance of getting a good price - and you're not in a mad hurry to sell, then offer it for maybe 20% or 25% more that you're willing to settle for. You might end up having to settle for rock bottom, but you might not, it all depends on the buyer.

On the other hand, if you want to maximize your chances getting a call today and selling the car to the first guy who sees it, price it as low as possible and don't budge much on the price. But be aware that this is a gamble too - you could have to turn someone away because he can't accept that you won't knock 25% off the price. That same guy might have bought it if you'd started higher and allowed him to beat you down. It'll be his loss, but he won't know that.

My preference is for the second of these 2 strategies, and as a buyer I prefer to deal with people who use that approach.

KinchTheBlade

firefly08 wrote: »

It depends on what is most important to you. If you are prepared to deal with hagglers and possibly having to turn a few people away, for the chance of getting a good price - and you're not in a mad hurry to sell, then offer it for maybe 20% or 25% more that you're willing to settle for. You might end up having to settle for rock bottom, but you might not, it all depends on the buyer.

On the other hand, if you want to maximize your chances getting a call today and selling the car to the first guy who sees it, price it as low as possible and don't budge much on the price. But be aware that this is a gamble too - you could have to turn someone away because he can't accept that you won't knock 25% off the price. That same guy might have bought it if you'd started higher and allowed him to beat you down. It'll be his loss, but he won't know that.

My preference is for the second of these 2 strategies, and as a buyer I prefer to deal with people who use that approach.

This would be my preferred approach too - find a fair price (and having read this thread) add a little for the optics and mandatory haggling and pretty much stick to it within defined parameters. The pain starts when the buyer assumes you're using strategy 1 and the seller is using strategy 2

Jammy Donut

I'v bought cars for half the asking price.... €1k ish cars.

Don't come across as a prat with the offer, Have a look at the car let them know your interested. Be friendly with them, Ask what they replaced it with how they find the new car etc..
Then pick any little negatives with the car, When was it last serviced? Little scratches (But put it the way that it look a lovely well minded car if the scratches were done, instead of I expect a new showroom car way)

Be friendly with the seller, Look I don't really want to insult you but realistically I want to be spending €X amount, I like the car and I'll spend that extra few pound to get her mint.

Only once has a seller told me to **** off, BUT I kept it calm explained my situation, apolagised for insulting him and bought the car for another €50.

It amazes me why people pay near to full asking for something when they can get money off.


Some may think I come across as a 'Tyre Kicker' but it's never a stupidly rare car I'm looking at plenty more on DoneDeal.

macroman

I was selling a car for €2200, buyer came to look, took a test drive and asked me my lowest price. €1800 - not a penny less was my response. Dropping €400 off the price is a fair discount in my opinion.

He followed with "well I only brought €1200 with me" and took out a wad of fifties and began counting them under my nose. Told him to come back when he has another €600 to go with it, and eventually another €550 was produced from his back pocket when he realized I wasn't playing into his hands! Let him have a little victory in getting another €50 off the car :P

If I'm ever going to look at a car I'll bring what I genuinely think it's worth, I'll bargain but won't resort to Mike Brewer, Arthur Daly style tactics.

skippy2

Am looking at buying as 2nd hand BMW from uk shortly
Is there any haggling to be done with "main dealers" in uk
Is their advertised price "it" as they dont seem to want to move much
Mind you hard to haggle over the phone
Do not want to buy private from UK
Any suggestions from anyone or do you just go with the advertised prices maybe get a couple of hundred off

firefly08

Mind you hard to haggle over the phone
Do not want to buy private from UK
Any suggestions from anyone or do you just go with the advertised prices maybe get a couple of hundred off

It's very difficult to haggle over the phone. To haggle successfully, you have to have credibility. Talking to a UK dealer who you've never met, on the phone from another country...he's going to have a hard time taking you seriously. On the other hand, you don't want to travel over there until you're happy with the price. Tricky. I bought my last car from a very long distance away, and although it was the same country, I am a foreigner here (US) and it was hard. The guy assumed a foreigner calling from over 1000 miles away probably = a scam of some kind. So I spent some time building up some trust and managed to beat him down on price a bit, pending a pre-purchase inspection. But I still had to accept that I was never going to get the deal I could have gotten if it was local, and I certainly couldn't fly down there until we had an agreement on price.

Having the dealer take the car to an independent garage for an inspection at your expense goes some way towards your credibility, since it's costing you money. Then you can negotiate based on the facts from the inspection report - you'll be talking about issues that the seller knows about, and he knows you're not bull****ting him. But it has to be a car that's in your ballpark price to begin with for this kind of dealing imo.

Do not want to buy private from UK

I don't see how you'd be any worse off - I can't imagine a dealer's warranty being much use to you back home, and private owners are good at looking after their cars over there, or so I'm told.

dr.fuzzenstein

macroman wrote: »

I was selling a car for €2200, buyer came to look, took a test drive and asked me my lowest price. €1800 - not a penny less was my response. Dropping €400 off the price is a fair discount in my opinion.

You never want to give a straight answer to that one, that's putting your cards on the table.
Best reply would be something like "I was hoping to get near enough to it" or "what's your best offer", but if you tell them the lowest you're willing to accept, they see this as your new maximum offer and try to haggle downwards from there.

Jammy Donut

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You never want to give a straight answer to that one, that's putting your cards on the table.
Best reply would be something like "I was hoping to get near enough to it" or "what's your best offer", but if you tell them the lowest you're willing to accept, they see this as your new maximum offer and try to haggle downwards from there.

If someone asks my lowest, They are told €X.. that's it no less and don't bother coming with less as they will not get the car. I make it quiet clear.

When they come, I know I have nothing to hide on the car as I'd have already told them all the details. If they offer less I refer to what I told them beforehand. I receive the full amount.. If they come, look it over and are happy with it and pay the full amount without hesitation. I'll give them €20/€50 back for petrol money.

PauloMN

Jammy Donut wrote: »

I'v bought cars for half the asking price.... €1k ish cars.

Don't come across as a prat with the offer, Have a look at the car let them know your interested. Be friendly with them, Ask what they replaced it with how they find the new car etc..
Then pick any little negatives with the car, When was it last serviced? Little scratches (But put it the way that it look a lovely well minded car if the scratches were done, instead of I expect a new showroom car way)

Be friendly with the seller, Look I don't really want to insult you but realistically I want to be spending €X amount, I like the car and I'll spend that extra few pound to get her mint.

Only once has a seller told me to **** off, BUT I kept it calm explained my situation, apolagised for insulting him and bought the car for another €50.

It amazes me why people pay near to full asking for something when they can get money off.


Some may think I come across as a 'Tyre Kicker' but it's never a stupidly rare car I'm looking at plenty more on DoneDeal.

If you ever buy a car from Limerick Man, give me a shout first... I'd love to see how that transaction would go lol!

L-M

Jammy Donut wrote: »

I'v bought cars for half the asking price.... €1k ish cars.

Don't come across as a prat with the offer, Have a look at the car let them know your interested. Be friendly with them, Ask what they replaced it with how they find the new car etc..
Then pick any little negatives with the car, When was it last serviced? Little scratches (But put it the way that it look a lovely well minded car if the scratches were done, instead of I expect a new showroom car way)

Be friendly with the seller, Look I don't really want to insult you but realistically I want to be spending €X amount, I like the car and I'll spend that extra few pound to get her mint.

Only once has a seller told me to **** off, BUT I kept it calm explained my situation, apolagised for insulting him and bought the car for another €50.

It amazes me why people pay near to full asking for something when they can get money off.


Some may think I come across as a 'Tyre Kicker' but it's never a stupidly rare car I'm looking at plenty more on DoneDeal.

You sound very annoying!

Jammy Donut

PauloMN wrote: »

If you ever buy a car from Limerick Man, give me a shout first... I'd love to see how that transaction would go lol!

Lol, The way I see it is... I'm out to buy a car for as cheap as possible not to make friends, There's plenty for sale and if I insult a few people so what? End of the day I'll eventually get a car I'm happy with for a bargain price.

Don't see the point in giving anymore money than I need to, That money saved can then be used for Tyres/Service etc...