Public Service bashing sticks at the ready, call to "benchmark pay again"

Sweetpea101

Also, I'm sitting here at 1am on the Thursday night of our midterm break, popping in and out of here as I'm doing schoolwork!!!! A teacher's job is never done!

billybudd

Sweetpea101 wrote: »

Just throwing in my tuppence worth - I don't see why we are as crazy as to attempt to debate the public vs the private sectors - seriously, are private sector shop staff on minimum wage the same as a solicitor on €300k (while also ripping off his clients for millions)???? And are teachers (of which I am one) the same as a top civil servant in the dept of the Taoiseach who needs to be paid €150k because of his wonderful advice?? And are we really lumping those vastly different people into two groups and comparing them??? That's just mad!! And, just to add one little piece of information - I've already said that I'm a teacher - after I've paid my costs of working (childcare and petrol) I come out of my overpaid job with €170 - if I were on the dole of €180 (which was the figure mentioned on this thread) I would be ten euro better off a week, and I would have some extra time with my lovely children. We're crazy to be allowing ourselves to battle the public vs the private because they can't be treated as generally as that.

In total you could live on €188 pw?

No offence but i hope your not a math teacher.

Sweetpea101

billybudd wrote: »

In total you could live on €188 pw?

No offence but i hope your not a math teacher.

My point is that I'm coming out with less than the dole every week, working my backside off, when if I was sitting on my ass collecting the dole I'd have more cash in hand. And I'm saying that, but I wouldn't like to be in that position, I love my job, I work very hard at it, there's a lot of extra work that I do, and I don't mind doing any of it, but I think the public vs private sector debate is madness. Also, I had read €180 earlier in the thread and 180 minus 170 equals 10 - I'm not sure if the €180 was a correct figure, but you're right, I couldnt afford to live off €188 per week, and thankfully my other half also has a job - his job pays the mortgage and most of the bills!

billybudd

Sweetpea101 wrote: »

My point is that I'm coming out with less than the dole every week, working my backside off, when if I was sitting on my ass collecting the dole I'd have more cash in hand. And I'm saying that, but I wouldn't like to be in that position, I love my job, I work very hard at it, there's a lot of extra work that I do, and I don't mind doing any of it, but I think the public vs private sector debate is madness. Also, I had read €180 earlier in the thread and 180 minus 170 equals 10 - I'm not sure if the €180 was a correct figure, but you're right, I couldnt afford to live off €188 per week, and thankfully my other half also has a job - his job pays the mortgage and most of the bills!

I didnt mean to be smart but out of that €188 you have bills, rent, food, energy etc etc, maybe on the dole you would be below the poverty line and not above it, it really depends on what you earn, two sw recipients with two children for example are probaly better off on the dole than working min wage jobs, but if you and your husband togeather for instance earn over €70,000 between you then your better of working.

Sweetpea101

billybudd wrote: »

I didnt mean to be smart but out of that €188 you have bills, rent, food, energy etc etc, maybe on the dole you would be below the poverty line and not above it, it really depends on what you earn, two sw recipients with two children for example are probaly better off on the dole than working min wage jobs, but if you and your husband togeather for instance earn over €70,000 between you then your better of working.

We are, and I'm not trying to be smart either, but just point out that there are so many different jobs in the public sector that they aren't all the same and they definitely aren't all necessary!!! I did some civil service work in the summers when I was in college and it was the easiest money I ever earned in my life - it was disgraceful what I was being paid for - and I said it out loud at the time. I've always worked hard for every penny I've earned - with the exception of those summers - and really, I nearly died. My brother also worked in a government department for a few years, and he left and went into the private sector because he felt that he would rather do a day's work for his money than sit on his backside reading the newspaper all day. I get incredibly frustrated when I hear this debate because there are so many different jobs and such savagely contrasting rates of pay for "public sector workers" - but when you hear what the frontline staff are on, it's not the big salaries we're talking about!

billymitchell

Sweetpea101 wrote: »

We are, and I'm not trying to be smart either, but just point out that there are so many different jobs in the public sector that they aren't all the same and they definitely aren't all necessary!!! I did some civil service work in the summers when I was in college and it was the easiest money I ever earned in my life - it was disgraceful what I was being paid for - and I said it out loud at the time. I've always worked hard for every penny I've earned - with the exception of those summers - and really, I nearly died. My brother also worked in a government department for a few years, and he left and went into the private sector because he felt that he would rather do a day's work for his money than sit on his backside reading the newspaper all day. I get incredibly frustrated when I hear this debate because there are so many different jobs and such savagely contrasting rates of pay for "public sector workers" - but when you hear what the frontline staff are on, it's not the big salaries we're talking about!

when training to be a teacher, did they ever mention paragraphs to you? :pac:

hardbackwriter

Sweetpea101 wrote: »

billybudd wrote: »

I didnt mean to be smart but out of that €188 you have bills, rent, food, energy etc etc, maybe on the dole you would be below the poverty line and not above it, it really depends on what you earn, two sw recipients with two children for example are probaly better off on the dole than working min wage jobs, but if you and your husband togeather for instance earn over €70,000 between you then your better of working.

We are, and I'm not trying to be smart either, but just point out that there are so many different jobs in the public sector that they aren't all the same and they definitely aren't all necessary!!! I did some civil service work in the summers when I was in college and it was the easiest money I ever earned in my life - it was disgraceful what I was being paid for - and I said it out loud at the time. I've always worked hard for every penny I've earned - with the exception of those summers - and really, I nearly died. My brother also worked in a government department for a few years, and he left and went into the private sector because he felt that he would rather do a day's work for his money than sit on his backside reading the newspaper all day. I get incredibly frustrated when I hear this debate because there are so many different jobs and such savagely contrasting rates of pay for "public sector workers" - but when you hear what the frontline staff are on, it's not the big salaries we're talking about!

The so called frontline ( guards + teachers ) are middle income earners in the public sector but compared to the likes of the Uk , both are very well paid


Solicitors salaries were mentioned earlier and a figure of 300k was mentioned , only a fraction of legal professions earn that kind of dough , the average solicitor isn't earning anymore than 50 k per year

woodoo

billybudd wrote: »

In total you could live on €188 pw?

No offence but i hope your not a math teacher.

She has children so she would be getting alot more than 188 pw if she was on welfare.

I have sympathy for the position she is in. She has educated herself and got what should be a well paying job, which should leave her better off than someone who lives of welfare. But that is not the case in this welfare state. She has to pay for a roof over her head, transport to her work and for childcare. And she ends up with abot 170 after that.

Welfare mothers don't need a car, don pay the full cost of the roof over their head and don't pay childcare. I know plenty of them and they are very well dressed and seem to have plenty of money for takeaways and drink.

This is not the way it should be. On average an educated teacher should have significantly more disposable income than someone on welfare. This is where this country has gone so wrong.

woodoo

hardbackwriter wrote: »

The so called frontline ( guards + teachers ) are middle income earners in the public sector but compared to the likes of the Uk , both are very well paid

Work pays in the UK compared to welfare. So there is no use comparing us with the UK

In the UK you wouldn't find welfare dependants with more disposable income than professionals.

srsly78

That's because they only recently (last 6 months?) slashed benefits in the UK. Ireland will probably follow suit as usual.

gerryo777

woodoo wrote: »

She has children so she would be getting alot more than 188 pw if she was on welfare.

I have sympathy for the position she is in. She has educated herself and got what should be a well paying job, which should leave her better off than someone who lives of welfare. But that is not the case in this welfare state. She has to pay for a roof over her head, transport to her work and for childcare. And she ends up with abot 170 after that.

Welfare mothers don't need a car, don pay the full cost of the roof over their head and don't pay childcare. I know plenty of them and they are very well dressed and seem to have plenty of money for takeaways and drink.

This is not the way it should be. On average an educated teacher should have significantly more disposable income than someone on welfare. This is where this country has gone so wrong.

It's the 'welfare mothers' now is it?

What if the poster you refer to loses her job due to the cutbacks in the education system and can't get another job?

Will that make her a 'welfare mother'?

Will she then not need her car, not pay the full cost of the roof over her head and get everything handed to her like you think?

Stop generalising people, it adds nothing to the argument!

hardbackwriter

woodoo wrote: »

hardbackwriter wrote: »

The so called frontline ( guards + teachers ) are middle income earners in the public sector but compared to the likes of the Uk , both are very well paid

Work pays in the UK compared to welfare. So there is no use comparing us with the UK

In the UK you wouldn't find welfare dependants with more disposable income than professionals.

A wellfare dependant could have more disposable income than a surgeon if the doc had a 5k per week cocaine habit , If a guard has less money at the end of the week than someone on the dole, they need to budget better

Freddie59

hardbackwriter wrote: »

A wellfare dependant could have more disposable income than a surgeon if the doc had a 5k per week cocaine habit , If a guard has less money at the end of the week than someone on the dole, they need to budget better

The reality is that, in a lot of cases, the dole is a better alternative to working. And that cannot be right. Watching 'midweek' on TV3 on Wednesday night was an eye opener.

EPA spend €5k on yo-yos (yes - yo-yos); James O'Reilly spent €640 on two coffee machines for his office, some TD claimed €53k in unvouched expenses last year; the list was endless.

Eddie Dobbs (you either love him or hate him) pointed out the obvious. Country bankrupt; borrowing €400m a week; and this shyte is still going on.

It is inevitable that some Monday morning the ones loaning it to us will refuse, and then the sh!t will fly.

Einhard

gerryo777 wrote: »

Stop generalising people, it adds nothing to the argument!

It's a thread in which sweeping generalisations abput the public sector are routinely made, and you think woodoo should stop generalising?!

woodoo

hardbackwriter wrote: »

A wellfare dependant could have more disposable income than a surgeon if the doc had a 5k per week cocaine habit , If a guard has less money at the end of the week than someone on the dole, they need to budget better

We are not talking about leisure activities we are talking basics like roof over head, travel costs to work and childcare.

gerryo777

2 questions there for you woodoo.
Do you want to answer them?

Agent J

Rabidlamb wrote: »

The €50k vs €30k thing has been around for a long time.
These figures just back this up.

I'd guess that more PS jobs require 3rd Level qualifications hence some of the disparity.
The PS figures are skewed with the top heavy long serving members who are at the top of their increments & grades.

Assuming the figure of approx 300,000 public sector people is accurate.

(Quoted here http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0429/1224295673614.html )

You would need a lot of people top heavy to pull that average up by a 1/3rd.
Or you would need a smaller amount on something astronomical (Probably in the millions) which is less likely imho. I need to see a breakdown of who earns what to be anywhere near accurate.