1940s-1950s School System Questions

P. Breathnach

It does indeed look like what I surmised: a privately-run examining board. [In case it interests you, I read the results differently from you: the honours were in Irish, English, and Drawing.]

I was hoping for an address on the certificate, because my thoughts had been drifting towards a particular institution: Caffrey's College on St. Stephen's Green in Dublin. It was a privately-run institution whose main activity was the provision of secretarial courses, especially shorthand and typing. I wondered if running an examining board might have been a sideline.

P. Caffrey's credentials were the minimum qualifications for teaching in a secondary school - a primary degree and a teaching diploma.

dubhthach

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Google does not give any hits for the Intermediate and University College, Dublin. The title is pretentious, with echoes of University College Dublin, a bona fide proper university institution. My guess is that this was a small privately-run examining board of no significant status. I don't expect that this examination was taken instead of the state examination, but think it was a waypoint - perhaps on completion of three years of a four-year cycle.

Try the following in Google:
"intermediate & university college" dublin

I see several publications that came from this. Some of which appear to be in National Library collection
http://www.nli.ie/pdfs/mss%20lists/Sheehy%20Skeffington%20List%2082.pdf

This page from the "Dungarven leader" of Sept 25 1948 lists students who did exams in "Intermedate & University College, Dublin" (second year, first year)
http://snap.waterfordcoco.ie/collections/enewspapers/dungarvan_leader/1948/DUNGARVAN_LEADER_09_SEP_25.PDF

P. Breathnach

There seem to have been two publications, http://www.google.ie/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:%22Intermediate+%26+University+College,+Dublin%22, both in 1931 and perhaps the sort of thing that industrious teachers might produce to supplement their incomes. Both works can be found on booksellers' lists, more often credited to Peter F. McBrien than to P. Caffrey.

The published school results fit well with my supposition that the Intermediate and University College was a privately-run examinations board - again the sort of thing that industrious teachers might do to supplement their incomes.

I am forming an image of the Intermediate and University College as a rented room in Dublin where a busy beaver of a teacher ran a business in his spare time - some publishing of study materials, running an examining board, possibly also doing some tutoring.

who the fug

What age were people when they were doing the leaving, as my old dear was 19 when she did hers, she got a job offer in England teaching infants on the back of the leaving

P. Breathnach

who the fug wrote: »

What age were people when they were doing the leaving, as my old dear was 19 when she did hers, she got a job offer in England teaching infants on the back of the leaving

People tended to start in primary school at 4 or 5; they transferred to secondary 8 years later, and spent either 5 or 6 years in secondary school. Do the sums, and you will get a median age of 18 for doing the Leaving Cert, with 17 or 19 also falling into the normal age range.

dubhthach

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There seem to have been two publications, http://www.google.ie/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:%22Intermediate+%26+University+College,+Dublin%22, both in 1931 and perhaps the sort of thing that industrious teachers might produce to supplement their incomes. Both works can be found on booksellers' lists, more often credited to Peter F. McBrien than to P. Caffrey.

The published school results fit well with my supposition that the Intermediate and University College was a privately-run examinations board - again the sort of thing that industrious teachers might do to supplement their incomes.

I am forming an image of the Intermediate and University College as a rented room in Dublin where a busy beaver of a teacher ran a business in his spare time - some publishing of study materials, running an examining board, possibly also doing some tutoring.

I also think your earlier supposition about a link to Caffrey's college in St. Stephen's Green is correct. If you look at the small image from one of those two books (blow it up) you can just about make out that the address is "St. Stephen's Green" Dublin. I can't make out the number though.

I came across the following brief thread on dublin.ie that mentions French was though in the Caffrey's "commercial college" during the 1960's at least:
http://www.dublin.ie/forums/showthread.php?10599-Caffrey-s-College

P. Breathnach

dubhthach wrote: »

I also think your earlier supposition about a link to Caffrey's college in St. Stephen's Green is correct. If you look at the small image from one of those two books (blow it up) you can just about make out that the address is "St. Stephen's Green" Dublin. I can't make out the number though...

It might be 68. That is near the corner with Earlsfort Terrace. That fits with my memory of where Caffrey's College used to be.

[I'm not sure if this is adding much to answering OP's needs, but I am enjoying the hunt.]

who the fug

P. Breathnach wrote: »

People tended to start in primary school at 4 or 5; they transferred to secondary 8 years later, and spent either 5 or 6 years in secondary school. Do the sums, and you will get a median age of 18 for doing the Leaving Cert, with 17 or 19 also falling into the normal age range.

1st of July was the cut off wasn't it, (Am dragging this from my rugby playing days) which explains why she be so old when she left as she was born on the 22nd

I was caught up in the politics of keeping small national schools open in the seventies so skipped high infants, whilst my next door neighbour started at three

who the fug

This back up the teaching qualifications thing you mentioned about the college

P. Breathnach

who the fug wrote: »

1st of July was the cut off wasn't it, (Am dragging this from my rugby playing days) which explains why she be so old when she left as she was born on the 22nd ...

I think you are right. I started in primary school on 1 July, and we were promoted to the next class at the beginning of July each year.

who the fug

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think you are right. I started in primary school on 1 July, and we were promoted to the next class at the beginning of July each year.

Start 1st of July did two weeks and then 6 weeks holiday , must have been about after 1974 the current 8 weeks holiday came in

heidiresk

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It does indeed look like what I surmised: a privately-run examining board. [In case it interests you, I read the results differently from you: the honours were in Irish, English, and Drawing.]

I was hoping for an address on the certificate, because my thoughts had been drifting towards a particular institution: Caffrey's College on St. Stephen's Green in Dublin. It was a privately-run institution whose main activity was the provision of secretarial courses, especially shorthand and typing. I wondered if running an examining board might have been a sideline.

P. Caffrey's credentials were the minimum qualifications for teaching in a secondary school - a primary degree and a teaching diploma.[/QUOTE

I think you are reference the correct institution, as the student has referenced "secretarial" skills even though they were not listed on Cert.
There is supposedly an original text book from the class in the house. Hopefully, I will find the book for further confirmation.
Thank you for your help.

Jellybaby1

The reference to secretarial courses has made me remember Caffrey's now. Did they teach Gregg's shorthand? I was a student at McGuire's Commercial College and we learned Pitman's. I'd love to know more about McGuire's but never found anything about it online. I loved my 18 months there!

pedroeibar1

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

The reference to secretarial courses has made me remember Caffrey's now.

I think Caffrey's - before it closed - also was a 'repeat Leaving' crammer and have a notion that it was bought by the Institute of Education on Leeson Street.

MAGGYMAY123

Hi, I am new to the forum and wondered if anyone can help. My father attended a Christian Brothers' shcool in Wexford in the 1940s. He obtained his primary and intermediate certs, but had to leave school then to work, as his family could not afford for him to stay on at school. He was very bright and the teachers wanted him to carry on with his education, but in those days, he would have had to pay for his books etc, and it wouldn't have been possible. I know my dad had an intermediate cert, showing that he had passed latin, irish and some other subjects, but I'm not sure what has happened to it over the years. My father sadly passed away recently and I would really like to get a copy of his certs, but not sure where they might be kept, if at all. I did contact Wexford CC archivist and she very helpfully provided some information regarding my dads primary and early secondary education, but wasn't sure exactly where I could obtain the certificates. Perhaps the National archives of Ireland? I have emailed them, but haven't heard back so far. Just wondered if anyone is able to shed some light on this.

Many thanks.

L1011

The State Examination Commission in Athlone holds Inter Cert records back to 1879, they charge €14.50 for a copy; however they say they can only supply certs to the individual who did the exam - how many 1879 candidates they expect to be alive I don't know!

https://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=ca&sc=co

I'd suggest phoning them anyway. Primary Certs should have been kept locally in the school, if it or a successor is still around.

MAGGYMAY123

Hi MYOB, that's great, thanks so much for the info. It is a bit silly as you say, isn't it, that only the person who sat the exam can be supplied with the certs. I've heard of making it to a ripe old age, but 135 years of age? I will make some enquiries and see if I can still get hold of the certs anyway, it would be really lovely to have them. I will try the local school/convent for the primary cert, see if they can help.

Many thanks again.