Seatbelts on buses

Niamhmurray

just wondering what members here think about wearing seatbelts on buses. i commute daily to work in dublin on bus eireann buses, every bus is fitted with 3 point seatbelts but i would say 95% of passengers never use them....given the vast majority of people would always use the belts in a car...why not on a bus? i always put on my seatbelt and very often would be the only person on the bus to do so. i have contacted bus eireann a few times on the matter and each time i have got the same reply that wearing of seatbelts is not a legal requirement and cannot be enforced but the use of seatbelts is encouraged and that they take passenger safety very seriously, only once in 5 years have i heard any encouragement from a bus eireann employee regarding seatbelt use,and even then the majority of passengers ignored the drivers announcment and many laughed and joked about it. for me it is just common sense to wear seatbelts when they are provoided, so i suppose im just looking to see what people here think on the matter

Run_to_da_hills

I was on a Bus Eireann coach travelling to Galway not so long ago, the non national driver insisted that everyone boarding wore their seat belt, he would then walk along the aisle to check at various points along the journey to see if people were wearing them.

Is it a case if they are fitted they must be worn? I was also told that if the bus crashes and you didn't have the belt on it could go against you in a compensation claim.

An Udaras

In a past episode of RTE's Garda TRAFFIC BLUES a unit pulls over a GO Bus coming from Galway if I remember correctly. This is to check if the passengers wearing their seat belts they also check on a school bus in another clip.

seamus

It's an attitude thing. You'll find that anyone over 20 spent their childhoods being ferried around in busses that had no seatbelts, so it's not seen as necessary now.

You'll find the same thing with cars. A lot of people tend to not bother with seatbelts in the back because they didn't really start appearing in cars until the 90's. Seatbelt wearing rates in the front is at 86%, but in the back only 46%.

Mrs OBumble

Also perceived risks: how often have you been on a bus that crashed, or heard of anyone who was.

I'll wear one if I think the bus or driver seems a bit "off". This is purely on instinct - if I had a logical reason to believe one or the other was unsafe, I wouldn't even be riding on the bus.

Jacknory

I seem to remember one of the experts giving evidence after the bus crash in Kentstown that there was no evidence to suggest that wearing a seat belt on a bus would give you the same protection as you would recieve in a car crash........due to the potential of buses turning over and the likes.

SP108

If seat belts are fitted to a bus they must be worn. Any person above the age of 14 traveling on a bus is responsible for wearing their seatbelt. If caught by the authorities they can face fines up to €2000. All buses fitted with seat belts have a internationally recognized sticker on the window beside the seat which indicates for a seatbelt to be worn. With this sign in place the bus driver does not have to tell people to wear their seatbelt, but some drivers might remind passengers to do so.

Run_to_da_hills

An Udaras wrote: »

In a past episode of RTE's Garda TRAFFIC BLUES a unit pulls over a GO Bus coming from Galway if I remember correctly. This is to check if the passengers wearing their seat belts they also check on a school bus in another clip.

It would be difficult for Gardai to enforce any law or fine those that don't have them on. The only thing the driver could do is threaten to throw those off that don't comply.

bk

JustMary wrote: »

I'll wear one if I think the bus or driver seems a bit "off". This is purely on instinct - if I had a logical reason to believe one or the other was unsafe, I wouldn't even be riding on the bus.

No offense, but that is pretty stupid thinking. The bus driver might be the best driver in the world, but there is little he can do if a drunk driver collides head on into the bus.

An Udaras

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It would be difficult for Gardai to enforce any law or fine those that don't have them on. The only thing the driver could do is threaten to throw those off that don't comply.

No doubting that mate they've hard enough time with drink drive!

Here's the offending video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff8b3Pn-zJc

Mycroft H

An Udaras wrote: »

No doubting that mate they've hard enough time with drink drive!

Here's the offending video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff8b3Pn-zJc

Speed limit for a coach on a dual carrigeway is 100kph, or am I wrong?

foggy_lad

For buses

The latest regulations also say that bus drivers and bus passengers aged 3 and above must wear seat belts where they have been provided.

A person aged 14 and above is responsible for wearing their seat belt on a bus and drivers may refuse to carry a passenger who fails to wear a seat belt. The penalty for failure to comply is a fine of up to €2,000.

Bus owners are required to ensure that passengers are informed of the requirement to wear seat belts while they are seated and while the vehicle is in motion, through either an announcement, presentation, appropriate signage, etc. The penalty for failure to comply is a fine of up to €5,000; however, the vehicle owner does not commit an offence if it’s shown that he/she was unable to inform passengers of the requirement because of damage caused by vehicle users to video equipment or signage, etc., and where rectification of the damage was not practical in the circumstances.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Seat-belts--child-restraints-/

Interesting that Coaches and buses don't have to have seat belts fitted but mini-buses do!

Rules

Use of safety belts and child restraints
The law in Ireland requires that certain vehicles must have seatbelts. These vehicles are:

Passenger vehicles that accommodate less than 8 people (excluding the driver)
Passenger vehicles that accommodate more than 8 passengers and that have a gross vehicle weight of less than 3,500 kg
Goods vehicles that have a gross vehicle weight of less than 3,500 kg
From 31 October 2011 all buses involved in the organised transport of children are required to be fitted with the appropriate safety belts or restraint systems for the number of children being transported.

Since 1st January 1971, all drivers and anyone occupying a forward facing front seat of any of the vehicles listed above must wear a safety belt or an appropriate child restraint, unless they are exempted. (See "exemptions" below).

Passengers travelling in buses fitted with safety belts must be informed of the requirement to wear them.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/roads_and_safety/seatbelts_when_motoring_in_ireland.html

SP108

BX 19 wrote: »

An Udaras wrote: »

No doubting that mate they've hard enough time with drink drive!

Here's the offending video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff8b3Pn-zJc

Speed limit for a coach on a dual carrigeway is 100kph, or am I wrong?

Yea on a dual carriage way or motorway a coach can do 100kph.

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

Interesting that Coaches and buses don't have to have seat belts fitted but mini-buses do!

The dynamics and behaviour between the two can be quite different.

Niamhmurray

Thanks for the replys, still confused by bus eireanns stance...emailing me telling me it is not a legal requirement but then one driver making an announcement that it was law to use the Seatbelts.....I find it funny that on a full bus the seat beside me is often the last to be taken, it's like me wearing my seatbelt makes the person sitting beside me uncomfortable. I know it's an attitude thing...I remember 20 years ago as a teenager getting laughed and slagged over always belting up in backseat and today it seen as normal with the majority people using their Seatbelts.....maybe it will be like that on buses someday

Niles

I've only occasionally heard a Bus Éireann driver ask that they be worn, but 9/10 times I've travelled with Wexford Bus the driver has requested this before departure.

Generally speaking I always wear one anyway. Some coaches have all leather covers on their seats so they can actually be a help when traversing roundabouts at speed...

CIE

More nanny-state nonsense. The statistics wouldn't support any necessity of wearing a seat belt on a bus, something tells me. I'm at the point where I'm ready to eschew any kind of vehicle that requires a seat belt (including cars) and go with motorcycles exclusively.

I always wear the belt on buses where available. You don't know what might happen, I was once on a WV-operated 123 when a car pulled out of Fleet Street unexpectedly and when the bus driver had to jam on the brakes, two standing passengers fell over and one man went sliding along the floor towards the front of the bus. The driver asked him if he wanted to take the car driver's reg but he said he was fine.

I also know of a British driver who was working for a private bus company in Kerry who was talked down at by the owners for his "heavy handed" enforcement of seat belt usage on school services. A few weeks later the Kentstown crash happened, they said nothing to him after that.

CIE

School buses are one exception I'll go with. Adults, it's at one's own risk. Of course, the nanny state can't raise a conscientious driver, hence the degree of carnage in accidents...

Victor

CIE wrote: »

Adults, it's at one's own risk.

So, when a bus has to break suddenly and a child gets struck by an adult flying through the air, what will your position be?

mikom

Victor wrote: »

So, when a bus has to break suddenly and a child gets struck by an adult flying through the air, what will your position be?

Arse over tit presumably.

Lapin

CIE wrote: »

I'm at the point where I'm ready to eschew any kind of vehicle that requires a seat belt (including cars)

Hope you have no flights booked then.


By the way, why the aversion to seatbelts?
I don't see any harm or discomfort in them.

Lapin

CIE wrote: »

I'm at the point where I'm ready to eschew any kind of vehicle that requires a seat belt.

For fun.

CIE

Victor wrote: »

So, when a bus has to brake suddenly and a child gets struck by an adult flying through the air, what will your position be?

Where did you get "when" from, as though assuming such a thing is inevitable...? When I lived in Dublin, I rode buses for decades and no such thing was ever heard of, nor on the provincial buses; makes me think that the drivers may have been more skilled then. Would this be a generational thing, maybe...?

lapin wrote: »

By the way, why the aversion to seatbelts? I don't see any harm or discomfort in them

What aversion to seatbelts? I thought I said I had an aversion to the nanny state; you know, government mandates and suchlike? If a company has it as their policy for passengers to wear seatbelts, that's a different matter.

PseudoFamous

CIE wrote: »

What aversion to seatbelts? I thought I said I had an aversion to the nanny state; you know, government mandates and suchlike? If a company has it as their policy for passengers to wear seatbelts, that's a different matter.

Oh feck off. Its a seatbelt, it'll save your life in many instances. They're already on cars, at no extra cost to the public, so it makes sense to wear them. It isn't a case of a nanny state, its a case of wanting to avoid pointless loss of life through people not wearing their seatbelt, and flying through the windscreen in a crash.

If you even try to argue against this with more moaning of "but nanny state", you're talking out your arse, as this was an excellent idea on the government/rsa's part.

lost marbles

talking about the seat belts on buses .
has anyone seen those "venga buses "" party buses" that are plying their trade around the universities in dublin .
i lead to believe that theres kids drinking and dancing on these and not a seat belt in sight .
anyone ever been on one of these ?

Niamhmurray

CIE wrote: »

More nanny-state nonsense. The statistics wouldn't support any necessity of wearing a seat belt on a bus, something tells me. I'm at the point where I'm ready to eschew any kind of vehicle that requires a seat belt (including cars) and go with motorcycles exclusively.

Don't understand your "nanny state nonsense" quote, the wearing of Seatbelts saves life's....fact, there was a recent school bus crash outside birr, all passengers had Seatbelts on and there were no injuries/deaths....coincidence or Seatbelts doing their job?

CIE

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Oh feck off. Its a seatbelt, it'll save your life in many instances. They're already on cars, at no extra cost to the public, so it makes sense to wear them. It isn't a case of a nanny state, its a case of wanting to avoid pointless loss of life through people not wearing their seatbelt, and flying through the windscreen in a crash.

If you even try to argue against this with more moaning of "but nanny state", you're talking out your arse, as this was an excellent idea on the government/rsa's part

Aha, government defender trolls always have to use verbal abuse (which falls outside argumentum ad hominem). Someone must be looking to make a fortune out of seatbelt-cutters, for those that get trapped by the devices in a crash. :rolleyes:

niamhmurray wrote: »

Don't understand your "nanny state nonsense" quote, the wearing of Seatbelts saves lives....fact, there was a recent school bus crash outside birr, all passengers had Seatbelts on and there were no injuries/deaths....coincidence or Seatbelts doing their job?

That's got nothing to do with government mandates, no matter what the conclusion you draw from the findings may be. I already said I have no problem with companies setting policies relating to seat belts.

(And why are school buses crashing anyway? Any crash that isn't due to adverse weather conditions is due to a driver that should just not be on the road, no matter what vehicle caused the crash in question; driving is not a right.)

foggy_lad

lost marbles wrote: »

talking about the seat belts on buses .
has anyone seen those "venga buses "" party buses" that are plying their trade around the universities in dublin .
i lead to believe that theres kids drinking and dancing on these and not a seat belt in sight .
anyone ever been on one of these ?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/roads_and_safety/seatbelts_when_motoring_in_ireland.html

Use of safety belts and child restraints
The law in Ireland requires that certain vehicles must have seatbelts. These vehicles are:

Passenger vehicles that accommodate less than 8 people (excluding the driver)
Passenger vehicles that accommodate more than 8 passengers and that have a gross vehicle weight of less than 3,500 kg
Goods vehicles that have a gross vehicle weight of less than 3,500 kg
From 31 October 2011 all buses involved in the organised transport of children are required to be fitted with the appropriate safety belts or restraint systems for the number of children being transported.

Since 1st January 1971, all drivers and anyone occupying a forward facing front seat of any of the vehicles listed above must wear a safety belt or an appropriate child restraint, unless they are exempted. (See "exemptions" below).

Passengers travelling in buses fitted with safety belts must be informed of the requirement to wear them.

The passengers are supposed to be wearing their seat belts but there is no real way of enforcing this apart from throwing them off the bus. Although the gardai have the power to fine each passenger not wearing a seat belt.

foggy_lad

CIE wrote: »

(And why are school buses crashing anyway? Any crash that isn't due to adverse weather conditions is due to a driver that should just not be on the road, no matter what vehicle caused the crash in question; driving is not a right.)

Many of the Bus Eireann/CIE school buses should not be on the road, there was one in Carlow recently where the emergency window kept falling out! and children's lives are saved every year by drivers despite the failings of the clapped out dangerous buses they are given to drive!

PseudoFamous

CIE wrote: »

Aha, government defender trolls always have to use verbal abuse (which falls outside argumentum ad hominem).

Calling people "trolls" slips nicely into argumentum ad hominem, funnily enough. To be honest though, I usually despise the government on all fronts, but tightening up regulation to save lives will always, always get my support.

CIE wrote: »

Someone must be looking to make a fortune out of seatbelt-cutters, for those that get trapped by the devices in a crash. :rolleyes:

Hilarious. You should be a comedian. If you're actually trying to argue that being trapped in a seatbelt, alive, is worse than being flung through the windscreen and into traffic, a ditch, down a sheer slope, probably to your death, there is really no point in arguing with you, as it is more than probable you're the one trolling.

Mrs OBumble

bk wrote: »

No offense, but that is pretty stupid thinking. The bus driver might be the best driver in the world, but there is little he can do if a drunk driver collides head on into the bus.

Do you wear a seatbelt whenever the bus has one fitted?

Mrs OBumble

Can anyone cite some actual studies or research about the effects of seatbelts on dealth and injury levels in bus crashes. (Not cars, not mini-vans, but buses.)

I believe in regulation, where it makes a difference, but I just don't hear about that many bus crashes, especially does where people are thrown out windows.

Niles

I really don't understand why people could have an objection to the wearing of seatbelts, unless you're school kids on a tour who are "too cool" to wear a seatbelt.

JustMary wrote: »

Can anyone cite some actual studies or research about the effects of seatbelts on dealth and injury levels in bus crashes. (Not cars, not mini-vans, but buses.)

I believe in regulation, where it makes a difference, but I just don't hear about that many bus crashes, especially does where people are thrown out windows.

I may be wrong but I think lack of seatbelts were cited as a factor in the Navan school bus crash.

Carawaystick

JustMary wrote: »

Can anyone cite some actual studies or research about the effects of seatbelts on dealth and injury levels in bus crashes. (Not cars, not mini-vans, but buses.)

I believe in regulation, where it makes a difference, but I just don't hear about that many bus crashes, especially does where people are thrown out windows.

Maybe you mean coach crashes, it'd be hard to wear a belt standing on a bus

Niamhmurray

JustMary wrote: »

Can anyone cite some actual studies or research about the effects of seatbelts on dealth and injury levels in bus crashes. (Not cars, not mini-vans, but buses.)

I believe in regulation, where it makes a difference, but I just don't hear about that many bus crashes, especially does where people are thrown out windows.

Forget about research and studies, I always wear my seatbelt on a bus because for me it is common sense, people don't have to be thrown out windows to get injured, how about the impact on me, a belted passenger, from the usually unbelted person sitting beside me. I'm guessing that if you knew the bus you were on was going to crash you would put on your seatbelt

bk

JustMary wrote: »

Do you wear a seatbelt whenever the bus has one fitted?

Of course I do, why wouldn't you?

I'm not a 15 year old kid who thinks it isn't cool to wear a seatbelt.

I assume you always wear your seat belt in a car? So why wouldn't you wear it on a bus. Even if it is less necessary then in a car and only increases your survivability by lets say 5%, that is still an improvement in safety and there is really no downside to wearing a seat belt, so why wouldn't you?

seamus

Survivability and statistics aside, if a bus collides with something else and is slowed very suddenly there will always be enough kinetic energy there to throw you forward, doing some soft tissue damage and probably some ligament strain injuries. Only a couple of days of some minor discomfort, but annoying nonetheless.

Or you could wear the seatbelt provided and feel practically nothing from the collision.

Polar101

Niles wrote: »

I really don't understand why people could have an objection to the wearing of seatbelts

Maybe if they were fitted better on buses so it would be easier to wear one without getting choked? I always have a seatbelt on in a car, but on buses it is usually physically difficult to do so.

..that's one of the reasons why I usually take the train instead, buses are uncomfortable enough as it is.

vader65

Wearing a seat belt is compulsory where they are fitted. I do think that bus and coach staff should take this matter more seriously. You are fined and get points for not wearing a seat belt in a car so why not the same on a bus or a coach?

LLU

CIE wrote: »

More nanny-state nonsense. The statistics wouldn't support any necessity of wearing a seat belt on a bus, something tells me. I'm at the point where I'm ready to eschew any kind of vehicle that requires a seat belt (including cars) and go with motorcycles exclusively.

Ah now grow up. It's pretty obvious you're going to be safer belted in than not. They can help prevent injury to yourself or others by stopping you from being thrown from your seat. Just because the government says so doesn't automatically make everything untrue you know. That sounds more like something you'd hear from a kiddie having a tantrum.

Cookie_Monster

CitInfo wrote:

From 31 October 2011 all buses involved in the organised transport of children are required to be fitted with the appropriate safety belts or restraint systems for the number of children being transported.

So why do DB buses not have them?
They have a schoolchild fare, they transport kids to school everyday...

Mrs OBumble

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So why do DB buses not have them?
They have a schoolchild fare, they transport kids to school everyday...

'Cos they're disorganised

Victor

For the people claiming nanny state, surely protecting **other** people from harm doesn't fall under the concept of nannying?

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So why do DB buses not have them?

The speed limit for a city bus is 65km/h and typical speeds are much lower and people do get injured on them - typically older people who are being over confident.

The speed limit for a coach is 100km/h on dual carriageways and motorways, 80km/h elsewhere.

Victor

Lapin wrote: »

For fun.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417265_228301017261903_220984361326902_485035_1881570244_n.jpg

Some decorum wouldn't go astray.

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Oh feck off. ... you're talking out your arse ...

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Hilarious. You should be a comedian.

No need to be insulting.

LLU wrote: »

Ah now grow up.

Likewise.

CIE wrote: »

Aha, government defender trolls ...

If you have a problem with a post, please report it.

Going Forward

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So why do DB buses not have them?
They have a schoolchild fare, they transport kids to school everyday...

Compartmentalization!