Hypocrisy

Johro · 10-02-2012 1:44am #1

Watched Newsnight on BBC earlier and they were talking to people who work in the 'big four' supermarkets, i.e. Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons, and how their wages are so low they have to be supplemented with State Benefits. One woman said she was in rent arrears, hadn't paid her council tax for a while coz she simply couldn't afford it and now had a water bill to worry about on top of it, even though she works nights at Tesco's, 11pm til 7am.
All the people they talked to had similar money worries, then the interviewer said they couldn't use the employees' real names because they were not allowed to talk to the press! :eek: Wtf?
Apparently you have to sign an agreement that says you will not talk about work practices or wages. The programme makers said that when they tried to interview workers initially they were 'followed around'.
Most of the managers had 'no comment', one said 'yeah but they get a store discount card'. :rolleyes:
All of the people working in the big four can't afford to shop in the big four, they shop in Lidl and Aldi. They get tax credits, paid for by the taxpayer, and it turns out that if they were paid a decent 'living wage', the taxpayer would not have to pay the fifty quid a week per employee.
All of the employees also said they would be better off on benefits. But wait, not for long, because the government will cut benefits too, it has the added benefit of keeping wages down.

Yes they f#ck ya whichever way they can, and then have the cheek to point the finger at China.
I guess the best way to show your discontent is to not shop in 'the big four'. I don't anyway. I wonder what wages are like in Irish supermarkets?
Tesco profits were four billion pounds in 2011 btw. Its CEO pocketed 6.9 million.

Morlar · 10-02-2012 1:47am

I didn't see it but that wouldn't really surprise me. How do Lidl and Aldi staff compare I wonder.

Sindri · 10-02-2012 1:47am

They should rob from where they work then.

MrStuffins · 10-02-2012 1:49am

Are they earning below minimum wage? If not, what's the problem?

Johro · 10-02-2012 1:51am

On a side note, David Cameron, voice of the people

, said, and I quote: "The additional investment and 5,000 new jobs announced by Asda will be a real boost for the economy and, more importantly, for people around Britain seeking jobs.
"I also welcome Asda's commitment to not only create jobs but invest in their staff too, offering employees the chance to join an apprenticeship scheme to gain skills which will benefit them throughout their career."

He said similar things about Tesco. He doesn't say much about the taxpayer having to support the low wage employees.

cloptrop · 10-02-2012 1:52am

Yeah I try not to shop in Tesco. Last year they went to some middle eastern country to hire managers for their english branches. They claimed nobody in England was applying for the posts.
Come off it, like they have 100 staff in a shop and they claim they couldnt find one of them that could be a manager.
They must be making serious money off these people because if you think of the costs alone going to a foreign country and having a recruitment drive.
They also make use of them work placement schemes in Ireland where people work for free and the dole pays 50 quid extra a weeek for them to work there. This is supposed to train these people in the gret skills of supermarketshelf stacking. It also removes jobs that were there because they can hire these ringers to come in and do them for free.
I think there should be a new youtube craze where instead of planking people go and poo in Tescos. Id call it pooing but Im sure someone with a better marketing brain could come up with something better.

cloptrop · 10-02-2012 1:54am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Are they earning below minimum wage? If not, what's the problem?

Id say they are , hence the government handout.

MickySticks · 10-02-2012 1:55am

My mother has worked in Dunnes Stores for the last 10 years she gets €13 something an hour, that sounds great but she very rarely gets 40 hours p/w, on average she works 19 hours p/w.

She has to claim JB for the other days that she's not working, so basically we are in the same situation as Britain. These hugely profitable companies work in away that allows them to hire staff for any length of time and give these new minimum wage workers the most hours to keep wage costs down.

Johro · 10-02-2012 1:55am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Are they earning below minimum wage? If not, what's the problem?

Below minimum wage. The problem is that people are not being paid enough to live on by hugely profitable businesses who can well afford to pay them a decent wage.

starviewadams · 10-02-2012 1:55am

When you sign your employment contract there's craploads of small print which hardly anyone bothers to read through (I know I didn't when I signed my Dunnes one years ago),that's probably where the bit about not being able to talk about work practices or wages is.

AngryBollix · 10-02-2012 1:55am

Is it possibe that tey would be better off unemployed and on benefits

MickySticks · 10-02-2012 1:57am

AngryBollix wrote: »

Is it possibe that tey would be better off unemployed and on benefits

Not in Ireland they wouldn't, except of course if they qualify for Rent Allowance, that benefit is a deal breaker IMO.

MrStuffins · 10-02-2012 1:58am

cloptrop wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

Are they earning below minimum wage? If not, what's the problem?

Id say they are , hence the government handout.

you'd say they are or you know they are? Why would the government give these people hand outs if they were breaking the law?

The OP said that there was a woman working nights, 8 hours a shift. Is this 5 days a week? Are the supermarkets paying pennies or not giving enough hours? Why is it exactly they can't pay the bills and why exactly is it Tesco's fault?

Johro · 10-02-2012 1:59am

Morlar wrote: »

I didn't see it but that wouldn't really surprise me. How do Lidl and Aldi staff compare I wonder.

Maybe they're as bad, I don't know, but do they tell their employees not to talk to the press? Nobody else think that's outrageous? Because to me it shows they know very well they're wrong.

Sindri · 10-02-2012 2:00am

If it were realistically practical for them to take industrial action I'd support them but it's probably not.

MrStuffins · 10-02-2012 2:01am

Johro wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

Are they earning below minimum wage? If not, what's the problem?

Below minimum wage. The problem is that people are not being paid enough to live on by hugely profitable businesses who can well afford to pay them a decent wage.

So they're breaking the law and paying below minimum wage? Is that what youre saying? How much are they being paid per hour?

Sindri · 10-02-2012 2:02am

I'd highly doubt they are being paid below minimum wage.

They would have lots of part time employees.

Where To · 10-02-2012 2:02am

I used to work in an airport but I could never afford to buy a jet.

Hypocrisy at its finest . . . .

MickySticks · 10-02-2012 2:02am

Johro wrote: »

Maybe they're as bad, I don't know, but do they tell their employees not to talk to the press? Nobody else think that's outrageous? Because to me it shows they know very well they're wrong.

I worked in a Hotel when I was in my teens and that was in my contract as well.

I think in jobs that deal with the public it's a requirement in a lot of contracts.

MickySticks · 10-02-2012 2:05am

Minimum wage rates in Britain:

£6.08 - The main rate for workers aged 21 and over
£4.98 - The 18-20 rate
£3.68 - The 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18
£2.60 - The apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship

£2.60 p/h :eek:

sarahbro · 10-02-2012 2:05am

I don't get this at all.
Tesco in Ireland pay above minimum wage. This increases after 18 months.
Minimum contract is 20-25 hours a week 5/7.
Some stores are doing a 3 day week so staff can claim social. Other smaller shops aren't because they haven't the staff.
It's not amazing money but it's certainly not pennies Tesco staff are being paid

cloptrop · 10-02-2012 2:05am

MrStuffins wrote: »

you'd say they are or you know they are? Why would the government give these people hand outs if they were breaking the law?

The OP said that there was a woman working nights, 8 hours a shift. Is this 5 days a week? Are the supermarkets paying pennies or not giving enough hours? Why is it exactly they can't pay the bills and why exactly is it Tesco's fault?

Its Tescos fault because Tesco made billions in profit last year and pay their staff **** money.
Its Tescos fault because their staff have to get the dole to survive .
Its Tescos fault because they go to slovakia to recruit their managers.
Its Tescos fault because they put little stickers up saying our butter is 1.99 the lidl price is 1.99 . They dont however tell you that their piss Butter is 1.99 and lidls very nice butter is 1.99 . If you wanted piss butter youd prob get it for a euro in lidl.
Its Tescos fault because they take advantage of ll government schemes deseigned to get people back working . And using these schemes to get free labour.
Its just Tescos fault . I reckon they assaasinated John Lennon . They then threaten Enda with comments like, "you dont wanna end up like that beatle now Enda do you , make a job initiative scheme let us rape it"

Johro · 10-02-2012 2:07am

MickySticks wrote: »

I worked in a Hotel when I was in my teens and that was in my contract as well.

I think in jobs that deal with the public it's a requirement in a lot of contracts.

Fair enough, but this is just about wages, and about people working shifts stacking shelves and checking barcodes and putting the 'extra 50% FREE' stickers on special offers.

SheFiend · 10-02-2012 2:07am

HSE workers also violate the terms of their contract if they talk to the media. Luckily for the HSE.

MickySticks · 10-02-2012 2:08am

sarahbro wrote: »

I don't get this at all.
Tesco in Ireland pay above minimum wage. This increases after 18 months.
Minimum contract is 20-25 hours a week 5/7.
Some stores are doing a 3 day week so staff can claim social. Other smaller shops aren't because they haven't the staff.
It's not amazing money but it's certainly not pennies Tesco staff are being paid

3 days @ 8.65 x 20 = 173

3 days SW = 100

Total: €273

Hardly raking it in!

cloptrop · 10-02-2012 2:09am

When I was Madonna nipple erecter in the mid 80s I had to sign one of them clauses.

policarp · 10-02-2012 2:11am

When IKEA were recruiting, they got thousands of applications.
Turns out that a lot wouldn't work there, 'cause they would take a drop in income.
Something funny there. . .:D

Senna · 10-02-2012 2:12am

WTF is this thread about;
People who obviously aren't working full time and have to claim benefits:eek:
Not everyone has a full time job:eek:
You work in an unskilled job, you dont earn a lot:eek:
People who work part time find it difficult to pay the bills:eek:
People who work full time find it difficult to pay the bills:eek:
People cant afford to buy from where they work:eek:
Large companies dont want their staff shooting their mouth off to the media, as staff could be seen as repressing the view of the employer when in fact they probably know very little:eek:
These big companies should not make profits and instead give the money to employees:rolleyes:

Johro · 10-02-2012 2:12am

MrStuffins wrote: »

So they're breaking the law and paying below minimum wage? Is that what youre saying? How much are they being paid per hour?

It wasn't clear to me whether it was below minimum wage tbh, the main point of the programme was to highlight the fact that employees working in Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrison's had to have their wages supplemented by state benefits as they simply don't earn enough money to live on. I think it's scandalous. But that's just me. Minimum wage btw is scandalous too.

MickySticks · 10-02-2012 2:15am

Johro wrote: »

Minimum wage btw is scandalous too.

Do elaborate..

RichieC · 10-02-2012 2:17am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Are they earning below minimum wage? If not, what's the problem?

My guess is is that a company pulling in billions is being subsidised by tax payers pretty much directly. Itself the same with Walmart in the Us.

cloptrop · 10-02-2012 2:17am

policarp wrote: »

When IKEA were recruiting, they got thousands of applications.
Turns out that a lot wouldn't work there, 'cause they would take a drop in income.
Something funny there. . .:D

Yeah they were only offering something like 20 hours. I cant remember the exact mount but for me at the time I would have been on 20 quid a week more than the dole. I would then have to pay for travel and lunches and stuff. It was spread over 5 days too so you would get no social welfare payments. I think it was a deal with the government.
The Interview was degrading I have spoken of it before , 30 people in a room at a time competing to make statues out of rubber bands and cardboard boxes.
They also advertised Ikea strongly throughout the 5 or 6 hour interview.
I still didnt get offered the job afterwards. I got a really camp guy on my team making the statue and he was being all dramatic. I have a trade qualification so as I was thinking now is my time to shine he was prancing about my staue trying to put glitter and **** on it and knocking it over. I got bit pissed at him. I think thats whyI didnt get it.

whatsamsn · 10-02-2012 2:17am

I guess the moral of the story is that a greedy, sucessful company wont pay their staff an adequate wage.

Sadly nothing new there.
But of course same company wants you to work your ass off, to come in your supposed day off if need be, to fill in other areas beyond your duty. .... "But dont expect anything more than minimum wage from us!" :rolleyes:

Johro · 10-02-2012 2:20am

Senna wrote: »

WTF is this thread about;
People who obviously aren't working full time and have to claim benefits:eek:
Not everyone has a full time job:eek:
You work in an unskilled job, you dont earn a lot:eek:
People who work part time find it difficult to pay the bills:eek:
People who work full time find it difficult to pay the bills:eek:
People cant afford to buy from where they work:eek:
Large companies dont want their staff shooting their mouth off to the media, as staff could be seen as repressing the view of the employer when in fact they probably know very little:eek:
These big companies should not make profits and instead give the money to employees:rolleyes:

I don't know... Is it too much to expect a wage you can live on for doing a full time job?

policarp · 10-02-2012 2:20am

cloptrop wrote: »

When I was Madonna nipple erecter in the mid 80s I had to sign one of them clauses.

Sucker. . .

RichieC · 10-02-2012 2:26am

I love how the self styled righties barge into the thread with their kneejerk "pro business" response demonstrating the fact that they show no actual thought behind their media fed "opinions"...

sarahbro · 10-02-2012 2:28am

I don't know... Is it too much to expect a wage you can live on for doing a full time job?[/Quote]

I can afford to live off the wage i get AND i can afford to shop in Tesco without claiming benefits!

No one starts on minimum wage in Tesco. It's been too€9.27 for a while now afaik which.is a good hourly rate compared to a lot of places

cloptrop · 10-02-2012 2:31am

[They dont pay in euros in the Uk . And Im sure they pay alot less there.

mikemac1 · 10-02-2012 2:33am

sarahbro wrote: »

I can afford to live off the wage i get AND i can afford to shop in Tesco without claiming benefits!

No one starts on minimum wage in Tesco. It's been too€9.27 for a while now afaik which.is a good hourly rate compared to a lot of places

Issue is Sarah that Tesco keep staff on contract and hours are limited.

On that rate and a full working week it's certainly possible to get by but Tesco don't give full hours to many so you get your twenty hours or so and if you don't work the rest of the week, you have to claim jobseekers

Tesco and others would prefer to employ two staff on twenty hours each then one person full time
You are ready and available for more work so you are entitled to jobseekers

MrStuffins · 10-02-2012 2:34am

Johro wrote: »

Senna wrote: »

WTF is this thread about;
People who obviously aren't working full time and have to claim benefits:eek:
Not everyone has a full time job:eek:
You work in an unskilled job, you dont earn a lot:eek:
People who work part time find it difficult to pay the bills:eek:
People who work full time find it difficult to pay the bills:eek:
People cant afford to buy from where they work:eek:
Large companies dont want their staff shooting their mouth off to the media, as staff could be seen as repressing the view of the employer when in fact they probably know very little:eek:
These big companies should not make profits and instead give the money to employees:rolleyes:

I don't know... Is it too much to expect a wage you can live on for doing a full time job?

If someone is working a full time job and is earning minimum wage or higher and can't live off it, this is not Tesco's fault.

The person should learn to live within their means like normal people do! The Celtic Tiger died a long time ago

skinny90 · 10-02-2012 2:36am

Johro wrote: »

Tesco profits were four billion pounds in 2011 btw. Its CEO pocketed 6.9 million.

Have you a link to that?i just did a two hour case study on tesco and it was 2bn profit even that's a pretty fair amount unless it was a different year...

Johro · 10-02-2012 2:36am

sarahbro wrote: »

I can afford to live off the wage i get AND i can afford to shop in Tesco without claiming benefits!

No one starts on minimum wage in Tesco. It's been too€9.27 for a while now afaik which.is a good hourly rate compared to a lot of places

Well this was a BBC programme about the big four supermarkets in Britain, and what it showed was that their employees don't get paid enough to live on and need additional state benefits. Don't shoot the messenger.

stupidusername · 10-02-2012 2:38am

I'm not seeing what's hypocrisy is going on here

And I just want to point out that minimum wage,at least in Ireland,is the minimum rate that an experienced worker must get,not just the minimum wage of anyone working,and 8.65 is for over 18's.it's not even clear if that has any relevance here,but people do seem to have the wrong idea.

MrStuffins · 10-02-2012 2:39am

cloptrop wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

you'd say they are or you know they are? Why would the government give these people hand outs if they were breaking the law?

The OP said that there was a woman working nights, 8 hours a shift. Is this 5 days a week? Are the supermarkets paying pennies or not giving enough hours? Why is it exactly they can't pay the bills and why exactly is it Tesco's fault?

Its Tescos fault because Tesco made billions in profit last year and pay their staff **** money.
Its Tescos fault because their staff have to get the dole to survive .
Its Tescos fault because they go to slovakia to recruit their managers.
Its Tescos fault because they put little stickers up saying our butter is 1.99 the lidl price is 1.99 . They dont however tell you that their piss Butter is 1.99 and lidls very nice butter is 1.99 . If you wanted piss butter youd prob get it for a euro in lidl.
Its Tescos fault because they take advantage of ll government schemes deseigned to get people back working . And using these schemes to get free labour.
Its just Tescos fault . I reckon they assaasinated John Lennon . They then threaten Enda with comments like, "you dont wanna end up like that beatle now Enda do you , make a job initiative scheme let us rape it"

The Jobbridge scheme is a completely separate issue.

As far as the rest of your post goes, its seems you just have a problem with Tesco

Johro · 10-02-2012 2:40am

skinny90 wrote: »

Have you a link to that?i just did a two hour case study on tesco and it was 2bn profit even that's a pretty fair amount unless it was a different year...

It was said in the programme, think it was Newsnight but could've been a different current affairs programme, was on earlier, best I could tell ya is try BBC i-player. Defo said 4 billion.

MickySticks · 10-02-2012 2:41am

MrStuffins wrote: »

The Jobbridge scheme is a complete joke.

FYP

RichieC · 10-02-2012 2:43am

Jonro: this is a practice born in the states. Full time Walmart staff still qualifying for food stamps and other benefits. Essentially having the taxpayers footing the bill for their cheap as chips labour.

Then advertising their low low prices..

*I see what they did there*

MrStuffins · 10-02-2012 2:44am

MickySticks wrote: »

MrStuffins wrote: »

The Jobbridge scheme is a complete joke.

FYP

I completely agree, but the thread is about.... well, seems there's 3-4 different opinions on how something is the fault of the Big Four.... but not about Jobbridge

jimmycrackcorm · 10-02-2012 2:45am

RichieC wrote: »

I love how the self styled righties barge into the thread with their kneejerk "pro business" response demonstrating the fact that they show no actual thought behind their media fed "opinions"...

What if Tesco played the same card as the fairtrade campaign and said "if we give our employees a big wage rise will you come and pay the equivalent in price rises", how many would switch their shopping over?

cloptrop · 10-02-2012 2:48am

MrStuffins wrote: »

The Jobbridge scheme is a completely separate issue.

As far as the rest of your post goes, its seems you just have a problem with Tesco

I explained my reasons for my problem with tescos.
What you did there was quite strange , I think you just have an affiliation with Tescos.
Somebody posted something . I agreed. You questioned my agreement. I explained it. You then accepted my explanation but said I have a problem with Tesco.
Of course I have problem with Tesco didnt you read the reasons. If I didnt have a problem with them Id be posting somewhere else.

RichieC · 10-02-2012 2:48am

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

RichieC wrote: »

I love how the self styled righties barge into the thread with their kneejerk "pro business" response demonstrating the fact that they show no actual thought behind their media fed "opinions"...

What if Tesco played the same card as the fairtrade campaign and said "if we give our employees a big wage rise will you come and pay the equivalent in price rises", how many would switch their shopping over?

Works out the same since your tax is paying their employees wages shortfall.

It's about time multi billion companies start taking their fair share of the hit.

Hypocrisy

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