Motorhome Tourists not Welcome in County Roscommon

niloc1951

In September 2011 Roscommon County Council passed a bye-law effectively prohibiting the parking of motorhomes/campervans in any "place, (not being part of a public road), for the parking of mechanically propelled vehicles" between 8.00pm and 8.00am

So, better strike Roscommon off your list of places to visit on your next 'staycation'

To experience an environment the complete opposite to the above, the ferry can be taken to France (from a little as €305 return with cabins) where local towns welcome you and even provide dedicated free overnight parking and services in recognition of your spend in their local economy.
And, their camp-sites, diesel, beer and wine are cheaper than here .

Aidan_M_M

that's an awful shame , wonder was it aimed at MH users or those who prefer caravans , most often towed with Hi-aces or Transits?

HereAndThere

Why do we bother paying tax?

What about MH owners from Roscommon?

Extract from http://www.citizensinformation.ie

"It is a legal requirement in Ireland to have motor tax if you want to drive your vehicle in a public place"

Maybe we should organize an all night drive around of Roscommon - If we are driving its not illegal?

killalanerr

Is there any one here from down them parts that can fill us in on the back ground to the council's decision,sounds like they are shooting themselves in the foot as far as motorhome tourism is concerned,to me it sounds like vested interested (read hotel/B and B owners)have been hard at work here
Its a pity we didnt know about this before the ban was in place so we could have went into lobby mode to let the council see the size of the potential market they have just alienated
Even at this stage we could still mount a letter/email campaign pointing out the benefit of encouraging motorhomes into the county so if some one from Roscommon could source e mail address of the officials involved so i can get the ball rolling

martyc5674

killalanerr wrote: »

Is there any one here from down them parts that can fill us in on the back ground to the council's decision,sounds like they are shooting themselves in the foot as far as motorhome tourism is concerned,to me it sounds like vested interested (read hotel/B and B owners)have been hard at work here
Its a pity we didnt know about this before the ban was in place so we could have went into lobby mode to let the council see the size of the potential market they have just alienated
Even at this stage we could still mount a letter/email campaign pointing out the benefit of encouraging motorhomes into the county so if some one from Roscommon could source e mail address of the officials involved so i can get the ball rolling

Sounds crazy alright.
I doubt the hotel/b&b owners are that stupid. Motorhome owners were never going to stay with them so why would they waste their time banning them?

It's to do with our cousins. And it's not entirely their fault either, councils don't provide solutions for theses people so they go into prohibition mode... It's easier for them to do this than to keep on top of them.

Marty.

niloc1951

killalanerr wrote: »

Is there any one here from down them parts that can fill us in on the back ground to the council's decision,sounds like they are shooting themselves in the foot as far as motorhome tourism is concerned,to me it sounds like vested interested (read hotel/B and B owners)have been hard at work here
Its a pity we didnt know about this before the ban was in place so we could have went into lobby mode to let the council see the size of the potential market they have just alienated
Even at this stage we could still mount a letter/email campaign pointing out the benefit of encouraging motorhomes into the county so if some one from Roscommon could source e mail address of the officials involved so i can get the ball rolling

mnolan@roscommoncoco.ie = Micheal Nolan, senior Executive Officer, present when the seal of Roscommon County Council was affixed to the bye-law
fdawson@roscommoncoco.ie = Frank Dawson, County Manager

But, it was The Cathaoirleach and Members of Roscommon County Council who made the bye-law concerned, at the Council Meeting 26/09/2011 see item 120.11.

Councillor Tony Ward Non Party proposed the motion
and
Councillor John Keogh FF

Maybe it's not significant but both these guys are from the Athlone Town/Hodson Bay area of County Roscommon

niloc1951

How many of us know our Constitution (BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN )

Article 6
All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

In the above Article 6, legislation (law or bye-law) must be 'according to the requirements of the common good', obviously not according to the requirements of sectoral interests.

It must be shown by our law makers that laws restricting the use or the right to park a motorhome in a particular area is 'for the common good' and such 'common good' must be declared and be a matter of fact which is not based on the opinion of a sectoral interest.

It must be apparent to all of us motorhome owners/users that many of the laws restricting our right to park or use our vehicles in particular areas are driven by sectoral interests who see such activity as counter to their aims and objectives, such law making is contrary to Article 6 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN.

As happened in France in the early 1980's, laws which are discriminatory against and counter to the rights of motorhome owners/users need to be challenged. It was such action by those with an interest in the future of the motorhome sector which resulted in a Government directive to local authorities (see attached file) which has resulted in the excellent network of Aires throughout France, a development which has spread to many other European countries.

killalanerr

Had a brief read of the said by law http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/Services/Roads/Car_Parking_Bye-Laws_2011/
hard to see how it would stand up if it was to be challenged,if i have read it right i can park my car overnight but not my motorhome,surely that cant be right ?

niloc1951

killalanerr wrote: »

Had a brief read of the said by law http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/Services/Roads/Car_Parking_Bye-Laws_2011/
hard to see how it would stand up if it was to be challenged,if i have read it right i can park my car overnight but not my motorhome,surely that cant be right ?

The only way it could stand up is if the Roscommon Co. Co. can show that it is necessary 'for the common good'.
A technical reason like the size or weight of a motorhome would not stand up because motorhomes are allowed use the spaces for the other 12 hours of the day.

niloc1951

Enquiries made to the Senior Executive Officer of Roscommon County Council indicate that the section in bye-law banning the overnight parking of motorhomes was enacted as a direct result of lobbying by caravan park owning interests.

This type of result for caravan park owners must be unconstitutional as it serves the objectives of private business and ignores 'the common good' to which all the citizens of this state are entitled to have enshrined in our laws.

Have not enough of our politicians been brought before tribunals for pandering to the interests of business with disregard for the common good.

It is time that an umbrella body representing the interest of motorhome owners, clubs, trade etc., was formed to pressurise central government to direct local authorities to provide overnight parking facilities for motor caravans. It was such action in the early 1980's in France that resulted in the coming into reality what is now a system of Aires which serve the local community and touring motorhomers so well.

This forum is ok for airing our grievances, it did a good job in relation to vehicle testing, but the lead on this issue needs to be taken by one of the major clubs, a trader or a trade association (if there is one).
I for one would be prepared to chip in a few Euro to support any legal costs either directly or through my club.

If we watch this space for too long without taking some kind of action we will have nothing left for us but the ferry to France or pay the high prices for camp sites (when they are open).
Come to think of it, perhaps we should sell our motorhomes and buy caravans then all our county councils and campsite owners will be happy.

zambo

Hi
The bye-law refers to car-parks away from the public road.Maybe we should hold a rally in some town in Roscommon and all park overnight on the main street.
yours Zambo

ps will they ban boaters living aboard at publicly built marinas like Hodson bay
so as to increase hotel occupancy.After all the only big difference between a van and a boat is one floats and the other pays more tax.

niloc1951

zambo wrote: »

Hi
The bye-law refers to car-parks away from the public road.Maybe we should hold a rally in some town in Roscommon and all park overnight on the main street.
yours Zambo

ps will they ban boaters living aboard at publicly built marinas like Hodson bay
so as to increase hotel occupancy.After all the only big difference between a van and a boat is one floats and the other pays more tax.

Don't be to hard on the people of Roscommon town. The adoption of the bye-law was proposed and seconded by two councillors from the Athlone area, which is close to Hodson Bay

zoltar_boi

I read the text of the bye law and it's only approved car parks it refers to. Curiously, I wonder how many of have height barriers fitted which would prevent us using them in the first place.

We should all meet to discuss this, perhaps over dinner? In a nice restaurant in Roscommon, bring your motorhome and park on the street. I wonder would they get the message if 20 or 30 legally parked motor homes took up all the on street parking spaces of an evening:cool:

Nothing to stop you parking on a public street overnight while you stay with a friend.

650Ginge

zoltar_boi wrote: »

I read the text of the bye law and it's only approved car parks it refers to. Curiously, I wonder how many of have height barriers fitted which would prevent us using them in the first place.

We should all meet to discuss this, perhaps over dinner? In a nice restaurant in Roscommon, bring your motorhome and park on the street. I wonder would they get the message if 20 or 30 legally parked motor homes took up all the on street parking spaces of an evening:cool:

Nothing to stop you parking on a public street overnight while you stay with a friend.

This is a good idea.

Didn't the Irish motorhome club have there annual event at Roscommon one year. Sure they did not mind the revenue then. Why town don't want to grab our cash I don't know, not like they. Des to spend much money on infastructure. Mostly we are self sufficient.

niloc1951

I came across this very interesting information about how local authorities have been successfully challenged in France, see HERE

For those of you without a translating browser here is the English. It is a bit of a read but it shows clearly that the actions taken by French local authorities, similar to the taken by local government here, to restrict the use and parking of motorhomes has been deemed illegal by the courts and central government. Compensation has even had to be paid to the plaintiff by the local authority in some of the cases.
I know this isn't France but we are all in the EU, and the discrimination argument does seem to be a very effective one.

NEWS: THE TOWN OF ARCACHON HAS CONDEMNED THE REPEAL DISCRIMINATORY PROVISIONS AGAINST CAMPERS STOPPED APPEARING IN ITS MUNICIPAL
The Administrative Court of Bordeaux has sentenced the town of Arcachon to repeal section 33 of the by-law of 14 September 2006, following the maintenance thereof by the mayor's decision of 18 December 2008.
The Liaison Committee of camping car maintained the record before the Court in connection with the refusal of the village and has been successful July 5, 2011.
The measures taken by the Mayor were clearly discriminatory and disproportionate, the goal being to impede the free movement and to prohibit the parking of campers throughout the municipality (with the exception of two sites on which addition, the parking permit was limited to 24 hours).
" It is not apparent from the evidence that the disadvantages of the parking of motorhomes had a serious nature telpour security, safety and protection of sites that were likely to legally justify the prohibition of parking and enacted in space and time (...) restrictions on the freedom to park presented a character of generality excessive relative to the ends sought, having regard to the illegality of those provisions, the Mayor Arcachon was required to grant the application for revocation ... "

The municipality, which must repeal this section within 15 days after the judgment, also ordered to pay 1,200 euros to CLC under Article L.761-1 of the Code of Administrative Justice.
THE SKILLS OF THE MAYOR
Responsible for good order, safety, security and public safety in the territory of the municipality, the Mayor has police powers, particularly with regard to parking, including the strict conditions of legality are defined by case law of the Council State. The mayor may compromise the movement and parking of certain vehicles involving the public tranquility, air quality, protection of animal or plant species or protected areas, putting no value landscapes or site Pursuant to Article L.2213-4 of the Code of local authorities. However, any ban should be based on local circumstances and explicitly motivated proven to not be tainted by discrimination and illegality.
THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS TO LIMIT PARKING IN THE MUNICIPAL
Any such measures must be properly justified given the traffic requirements and cover all vehicles of the same size, mass and weight. Thus a ban should be reserved for campers only. Recent case law has often proved insufficient motivation orders restricting the parking of motor homes under the pretext that they compromised the safety or public safety. The Administrative Tribunal of Montpellier has also repealed its decision in 2007 on the grounds that the municipality "does not produce any evidence proving the existence and extent of pollution in the area concerned or, a fortiori, their relationship parking of motor homes. "
ANY BLANKET BAN IS ILLEGAL
Recent case law has significantly advanced the treatment of the proportionality of the measure. Indeed any prohibition must be established in an acceptable proportionality and not excessive in relation to the disorder that we consider. The Administrative Court of Appeal of Bordeaux, for example, confirmed the cancellation of an order prohibiting parking on any one municipality in 2008 on the grounds that "it appears that the disadvantages that may cause the parking of motor homes have presented a serious nature as to security, safety and protection of sites they have been such as to justify the prohibition of parking legally and enacted. "
PROHIBIT THE PARKING OF MOTOR HOMES AT NIGHT IS ILLEGAL
The inter-ministerial circular published October 19, 2004 removes any distinction between day and night parking of motor homes, occupied or not. Indeed, the risks are no different day and night, and any specific prohibition of night is illegal. Case law has since condemned the discriminatory ordinances, the Administrative Court of Pau has indeed stated in 2008 that it was "indeed a general and absolute prohibition for motorhomes to park with overnight occupants on the whole community. "
HOW TO WRITE BYLAWS?
A municipal ordinance prohibiting parking a vehicle category must specify the rights and elements of fact justifying the decision (Article L. 2213-2 of the General Local Authorities Code). The measure must be based on need (significant disruption due to traffic or parking) to be seriously motivated, they must be proportionate to the disorder that it intends to prevent or to which it wishes to terminate, then it must be limited in space (specific geographic area) and time (eg seasonality).
LIMITING ACCESS TO PARKING MOTORHOMES BY PITCH BARS IS ILLEGAL
The proliferation of bars in height at the entrance of the parking is extremely damaging to the practice of the camper. If they are not always the main target, the camping car are affected primarily by the binding and often illegal devices that do not give a good image host. The Highway Code specifies that the pitch bars are pre-signaling of an obstacle and must be strictly limited to this use (low trees, bridges, parking garages entries ... inaccessible to campers). The implementation of pitch bars is illegal even for the materialization of a parking ban has been a municipal ordinance

dorts

Just to let people know,Buncrana town in Inishowen are setting up an aire type facility this season on a pilot scheme.Good to see a forward looking council.I will keep boards informed as I get more information.

niloc1951 wrote: »

I came across this very interesting information about how local authorities have been successfullchallenged in France, see HERE

For those of you without a translating browser here is the English. It is a bit of a read but it shows clearly that the actions taken by French local authorities, similar to the taken by local government here, to restrict the use and parking of motorhomes has been deemed illegal by the courts and central government. Compensation has even had to be paid to the plaintiff by the local authority in some of the cases.
I know this isn't France but we are all in the EU, and the discrimination argument does seem to be a very effective one.

NEWS: THE TOWN OF ARCACHON HAS CONDEMNED THE REPEAL DISCRIMINATORY PROVISIONS AGAINST CAMPERS STOPPED APPEARING IN ITS MUNICIPAL
The Administrative Court of Bordeaux has sentenced the town of Arcachon to repeal section 33 of the by-law of 14 September 2006, following the maintenance thereof by the mayor's decision of 18 December 2008.
The Liaison Committee of camping car maintained the record before the Court in connection with the refusal of the village and has been successful July 5, 2011.
The measures taken by the Mayor were clearly discriminatory and disproportionate, the goal being to impede the free movement and to prohibit the parking of campers throughout the municipality (with the exception of two sites on which addition, the parking permit was limited to 24 hours).
" It is not apparent from the evidence that the disadvantages of the parking of motorhomes had a serious nature telpour security, safety and protection of sites that were likely to legally justify the prohibition of parking and enacted in space and time (...) restrictions on the freedom to park presented a character of generality excessive relative to the ends sought, having regard to the illegality of those provisions, the Mayor Arcachon was required to grant the application for revocation ... "

The municipality, which must repeal this section within 15 days after the judgment, also ordered to pay 1,200 euros to CLC under Article L.761-1 of the Code of Administrative Justice.
THE SKILLS OF THE MAYOR
Responsible for good order, safety, security and public safety in the territory of the municipality, the Mayor has police powers, particularly with regard to parking, including the strict conditions of legality are defined by case law of the Council State. The mayor may compromise the movement and parking of certain vehicles involving the public tranquility, air quality, protection of animal or plant species or protected areas, putting no value landscapes or site Pursuant to Article L.2213-4 of the Code of local authorities. However, any ban should be based on local circumstances and explicitly motivated proven to not be tainted by discrimination and illegality.
THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS TO LIMIT PARKING IN THE MUNICIPAL
Any such measures must be properly justified given the traffic requirements and cover all vehicles of the same size, mass and weight. Thus a ban should be reserved for campers only. Recent case law has often proved insufficient motivation orders restricting the parking of motor homes under the pretext that they compromised the safety or public safety. The Administrative Tribunal of Montpellier has also repealed its decision in 2007 on the grounds that the municipality "does not produce any evidence proving the existence and extent of pollution in the area concerned or, a fortiori, their relationship parking of motor homes. "
ANY BLANKET BAN IS ILLEGAL
Recent case law has significantly advanced the treatment of the proportionality of the measure. Indeed any prohibition must be established in an acceptable proportionality and not excessive in relation to the disorder that we consider. The Administrative Court of Appeal of Bordeaux, for example, confirmed the cancellation of an order prohibiting parking on any one municipality in 2008 on the grounds that "it appears that the disadvantages that may cause the parking of motor homes have presented a serious nature as to security, safety and protection of sites they have been such as to justify the prohibition of parking legally and enacted. "
PROHIBIT THE PARKING OF MOTOR HOMES AT NIGHT IS ILLEGAL
The inter-ministerial circular published October 19, 2004 removes any distinction between day and night parking of motor homes, occupied or not. Indeed, the risks are no different day and night, and any specific prohibition of night is illegal. Case law has since condemned the discriminatory ordinances, the Administrative Court of Pau has indeed stated in 2008 that it was "indeed a general and absolute prohibition for motorhomes to park with overnight occupants on the whole community. "
HOW TO WRITE BYLAWS?
A municipal ordinance prohibiting parking a vehicle category must specify the rights and elements of fact justifying the decision (Article L. 2213-2 of the General Local Authorities Code). The measure must be based on need (significant disruption due to traffic or parking) to be seriously motivated, they must be proportionate to the disorder that it intends to prevent or to which it wishes to terminate, then it must be limited in space (specific geographic area) and time (eg seasonality).
LIMITING ACCESS TO PARKING MOTORHOMES BY PITCH BARS IS ILLEGAL
The proliferation of bars in height at the entrance of the parking is extremely damaging to the practice of the camper. If they are not always the main target, the camping car are affected primarily by the binding and often illegal devices that do not give a good image host. The Highway Code specifies that the pitch bars are pre-signaling of an obstacle and must be strictly limited to this use (low trees, bridges, parking garages entries ... inaccessible to campers). The implementation of pitch bars is illegal even for the materialization of a parking ban has been a municipal ordinance

Discodog

niloc1951 wrote: »

Enquiries made to the Senior Executive Officer of Roscommon County Council indicate that the section in bye-law banning the overnight parking of motorhomes was enacted as a direct result of lobbying by caravan park owning interests.

This is nothing new. I once stopped in Fanore Co Clare. Seeing all the no overnight parking signs I was planning where to go for the night. Some surfers ask me if I was staying & told me to ignore the signs as there were put up by the local campsite owner .

Later in the evening some lads suggested that I move the van further into the dunes & away from the signs. In the morning the signs were gone - someone had cut through the poles. I spent a brilliant week there & met some really nice people - lot of campers from Galway.

I also know of a another campsite owner who has been known to bang on the side of vans parked by the beach & telling them to move on.

WildWater

dorts wrote: »

Just to let people know,Buncrana town in Inishowen are setting up an aire type facility this season on a pilot scheme.Good to see a forward looking council.I will keep boards informed as I get more information.

Thanks for that Dorts. We are planning on staying at home this summer. A few days in Donegal will hopefully be on the cards and I'd certainly like to go support this venture if we are in that neck of the woods.

Appreciate it if you can keep us up to date.

bo.jangles

Is there any one on here that could write a strong letter we could copy or counter sign and send to the TDs for Roscommon and to the Minister for tourism high lighting some of the points raised. I would love to do something but am useless at putting in on paper.

niloc1951

bo.jangles wrote: »

Is there any one on here that could write a strong letter we could copy or counter sign and send to the TDs for Roscommon and to the Minister for tourism high lighting some of the points raised. I would love to do something but am useless at putting in on paper.

What we really need here is the formation of an organisation similar to the CLC in France.
This organisation includes manufacturers, retailers, rental companies, users. I know we don't have manufacturers here but we have the rest.

The mission of the CLC is to defend the interests associated with the use of campers in all its aspects and especially the reception of such vehicles, parking them, their environment, the rights and obligations of users, the administrative and technical regulations and taxation.

The CLC also are involved in actions to promote development and understanding at national, regional and local representation by governments, government agencies and officials of the requirements of motorhomes.

It is the CLC who are spearheading the legal actions against local authorities in France who might unjustifiably put restrictions on the movement and parking of motorhomes

stapeler

bo.jangles wrote: »

Is there any one on here that could write a strong letter we could copy or counter sign and send to the TDs for Roscommon and to the Minister for tourism high lighting some of the points raised. I would love to do something but am useless at putting in on paper.

At a MH rally at a Roscommon racecourse about 3-4 yrs ago, Michael Finneran TD and then minister of state welcomed us all down and said what a great boost we brought to the local economy. Things must have changed, He's not a TD anymore (I think he's a racecourse manager) and they dont want motorhomes There's certainly a County Council team that should be lobbied and make them explain their reasons for their actions.

Micky Dolenz

I wonder how strictly it would be policed. I suspect it would not be.

Have yet to get any hassle for parking overnight anywhere, signs or not.

WildWater

niloc1951 wrote: »

What we really need here is the formation of an organisation similar to the CLC in France.
This organisation includes manufacturers, retailers, rental companies, users. I know we don't have manufacturers here but we have the rest.

The mission of the CLC is to defend the interests associated with the use of campers in all its aspects and especially the reception of such vehicles, parking them, their environment, the rights and obligations of users, the administrative and technical regulations and taxation.

The CLC also are involved in actions to promote development and understanding at national, regional and local representation by governments, government agencies and officials of the requirements of motorhomes.

It is the CLC who are spearheading the legal actions against local authorities in France who might unjustifiably put restrictions on the movement and parking of motorhomes

It would be great to have such an organisation here and I would certainly join and give time to it. I am not really interested in joining a club to go on rallies but I would join a club that had an active campaign for the provisions of Aires in Ireland. Unfortunately, I cannot find one. Anyone know of a club that is active in this space?

Outside of that how feasible is it to establish a new lobby group?

bo.jangles

Outside of that how feasible is it to establish a new lobby group?

I do not know but if think of trying to set one up count me in

jakejudy123

Just to let you know there has been a lot of publicity about this topic on local radio Shannonside in the last few days. I sent them an email and will be talking on the show tomorrow in defence of motorhomes. It would be great if some of you could send emails to joe@shannonside.ie between 9am and 12 noon in support of campervans.

Old Timer

WildWater wrote: »

It would be great to have such an organisation here and I would certainly join and give time to it. I am not really interested in joining a club to go on rallies but I would join a club that had an active campaign for the provisions of Aires in Ireland. Unfortunately, I cannot find one. Anyone know of a club that is active in this space?

The only group or club that I know of that was succesful in locating an airs was, the Munster Motorhome Club, they lobbied local Co.Co. officials for an aires at Askeaton, Co. Limerick. Perhaps they need new blood to continue their fight for aires in the Munster region.

killalanerr

http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2012/03/07/4009439-new-byelaw-to-block-camper-vans-from-local-car-parks-/
Now the campsite owner is suggesting we dump into the Shannon,

niloc1951

killalanerr wrote: »

http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2012/03/07/4009439-new-byelaw-to-block-camper-vans-from-local-car-parks-/
Now the campsite owner is suggesting we dump into the Shannon,

If you read the article above it was not the camp site owner who made the ridicules suggestion but his buddy Councillor Tony Ward http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/Services/Corporateservices/Local_Representatives/Athlone_Electoral_Area/Councillor_Tony_Ward.html

jakejudy123

I was supposed to be on Shannonside Radio fm104.1 today to discuss above but it was postponed until tomorrow morning at 9.30 ish. In an article in Westmeath paper the councillor in question said "the big concern that I had was in relation to the sewage and refuse (from the campervans) where is that going. Is it going into the River Shannon". !!!!
he really knows nothing about campervan people does he. I really think everyone involved in the camper van community should contact Roscommon County Council just email them at customerservice@roscommoncoco.ie and ask for it to be passed on to the relevant councillors meetings.

Letters can also be sent to local paper roscommon herald as follows:
editor@roscommonherald.com.

It really doesnt affect me personally as I am from Roscommon and do not holiday here but I am disgusted at the attitude towards us campervan owners who are a band of very responsible people on the whole.

bo.jangles

sent e-mail to minister of tourism office also copys to Roscommon c.c and to Roscommon TDs Luke Flanagan TD, Denis Naughten TD , Frank Feighan TD.
Ministers office said
matter has been passed on to relevant dept.
Denis Naughten TD
Thank you for your e-mail which I have referred to the County Manager requesting that he make direct contact with you regarding this matter
Regards.
Nothing from others.

zambo

hi
Maybe they would be better off inspecting the boats on the shannon,not all of which have holding tanks for sewage.I know of several barges which have marine type heads which pump directly overboard which are still in use.
yours zambo

killalanerr

zambo wrote: »

hi
Maybe they would be better off inspecting the boats on the shannon,not all of which have holding tanks for sewage.I know of several barges which have marine type heads which pump directly overboard which are still in use.
yours zambo

In fairness im sure we dont want to get into an us and them with the boating community but i would like to be treated equally and be offered the the same services that are available to them and not to be subjected to the misinformation that is been touted by our Councillor mate

bo.jangles

jakejudy123.
if that was you on the radio great job and well done you put over your view and mine is the same perfectly.
Thanks.

jakejudy123

Was just interviewed on Shannonside FM re above along with Colin from Cork. I think it was a good interview. Interviewer was very sympathetic and we got the point across that when u park your camper you are not camping simply parking. Interviewer said he had gotten a huge response from all over Ireland and abroad on this issue and that camper van owners were disappointed and outraged about the enforcement of this by law in County Roscommon made by someone with little understanding of how camper vans actually work.
I am now going to email Roscommon County Council. I have already written a letter to the Editor of Roscommon Herald and will also email various councillors on this issue. I suggest we all do the same and not let this issue lie or it wont end here but will be taken up elsewhere. As I said I live in Roscommon and do not use the van in this county except at a local festival but I am shocked and saddened by this narrow minded attitude towards our community.

niloc1951

https://citrix.sharefile.com/d/s7fe1597bb2d41a99

jakejudy123

bo.jangles wrote: »

jakejudy123.
if that was you on the radio great job and well done you put over your view and mine is the same perfectly.
Thanks.

thanks very much, it was me, busy now sending off emails to councillors, this has really annoyed me, mainly the comments made about camper van owners perhaps dumping in the Shannon!!

Irishgoatman

Well done jakejudy123, good interview.

You mentioned a certain premises on the Carrick road, they are very welcoming to campers as you obviously know. I've been friends with the owner for about 20 years and that's were I went last weekend for my first trip this year. Great music and craic.
The advantage for them is the large car park.

I'm in Mayo and will certainly be getting onto Roscommon council.

niloc1951

Bump

The weather is nice and the west bank of the Shannon is an lovely area to spend some time.

However, remember Co. Roscommon doesn't want us so why not consider an more welcoming destination to leave behind your Euro's.

jakejudy123

Yes but also let the County Council know u are staying away. I sent emails to the councillor involved and the Lord Mayor but of course didnt receive a reply to either . Also sent email to County manager and heard nothing back. Am I surprised - well NO!

niloc1951

jakejudy123 wrote: »

Yes but also let the County Council know u are staying away. I sent emails to the councillor involved and the Lord Mayor but of course didnt receive a reply to either . Also sent email to County manager and heard nothing back. Am I surprised - well NO!

I wrote to the Co. Co. CEO who replied
".........................representations were received from the owner of a designated caravan park objecting to the fact that caravans and other vehicles used for living accommodation were parking overnight in an adjacent public car park instead of in the caravan park.........................."

The whole process looks highly unconstitutional to me, after all Article 6 says, laws must only be enacted to serve the requirements of the common good, so passing laws to serve the aims of local vested interests in the private sector would seem to be repugnant to the constitution.

irishllanaber

The whole process looks highly unconstitutional to me, after all Article 6 says, laws must only be enacted to serve the requirements of the common good, so passing laws to serve the aims of local vested interests in the private sector would seem to be repugnant to the constitution.[/QUOTE]

I have also written to all involved, no reply from anybody. this is a good point you raise regarding the constituton. Have you made the co co aware of this

unfit2006

Well done JakeJudy.

I took the van for a spin around Lough Ree yesterday. I called in at Hodson Bay where there were a few vans parked up in the carpark. Not sure if they had overnighted or were just daytrippers like ourselves.. I didnt notice whether the signs around Hodson Bay area regarding overnight camping/caravanning were any more conspicuous than I have come across elsewhere.

Further up along the western side of Lough Ree we encountered 1.8m height barriers at the little "harbour" area in Lecarrow. These have to be the lowest barriers that I have ever encountered. We watched drivers of ordinary cars and SUV type vehicles almost come to a stop as they passed under these 6 foot barriers as their roof ariels barely scraped under.
We also came across the same barriers at the lakeside harbour carpark around Portrunny.
I am unsure as to whether these ultra low barriers are the work of Roscommon County Council or Inland Waterways. Maybe someone on here from around that area may know more about them.

Overall, the impression given is that of a statutory authority using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If there is a problem with antisocial elements using these areas for long term parking up, then they should deal with that problem. Why must we all suffer on the head of it ?
If it is a case of a Local Authority stating that they moved in order to protect the interest of a local caravan site owner, then I believe their action is bordering on being illegal in light of the onus on them to only legislate to protect the overall public good.

One way or the other, Roscommon C.C. does not come out of this looking too good in my opinion.

irishllanaber

Here is an article I came across, I copied it and sent it on to roscommon co co..... Do you think it will make a difference?.........
Fylde welcomes motorhomers

Motorhome owners will be welcome in St Annes when Fylde Council opens one of its seafront car-parks to overnight visitors this spring.

The prosperous motorhomers will be able to stay for up to three nights in a pilot scheme that will last to the end of summer.

The car-park chosen is the one at the rear of St Annes swimming pool – selected as it offers good sea views while not being visible from the road.

Councillor Albert Pounder, Fylde Council cabinet member for Customer and Operational Services, said: “Motorhomers are good, responsible citizens and tend to be prosperous. “Many come at the moment but they have to go home at the end of the day. From this spring they will be able to make a weekend of their visit and, we expect, they will spend money in shops, cafes and restaurants.

“They tend to be people who have good disposable incomes – exactly the sort of people we need for the tourism business in the area.

“In France, many towns have ‘aires’. They are places where motorhomers can stay overnight and they typically have electricity hook-ups and running water. You can drive from one end of France to the other by staying in aires.

“Fylde will be one of the first places in England to have one of these continental-style areas and we know there is already interest within the motorhoming community.”

The swimming pool car-park will not have electricity and water hook-ups. If this summer’s trial is a success, such facilities will beconsidered for future years – as will possible use of other car-parks. Caravans will continue to be banned.

Behaviour will be monitored while charges for overnight stays are yet to be decided. A three-night limit will be imposed to protect local hoteliers.

Councillor Pounder added: “There has been a problem in recent years with motorhomes parking on the roads which is suitable for neither residents nor motorhomers.

“We hope this trial period will make a positive out of a negative – we can get them off the road while using one of our existing assets at no cost to the Council Tax-payer.

“Motorhoming has grown very fast in recent years and we want Fylde to be at its forefront.”

Des32

The following is the reply I got to my email to some members of Roscommon county council.

Brick wall and head stuck in the sand comes to mind.


I know where I will not be going this summer.



I am writing to you on behalf of Roscommon County Manager Frank Dawson. The County Manager has asked me to respond to your e-mail query.Roscommon County Council’s position regarding car parks in the county is as follows. Car park Bye Laws were adopted by Roscommon County Council in September, 2011, under the Road Traffic Acts 1961 – 1994. The Bye Laws refer to 39 public car parks throughout the county and include conditions to regulate and manage the use of the public car parks.

The conditions prescribe the duration and method of parking and the restrictions that apply to all vehicles including cars, buses, caravans, motor homes, camper vans etc. using the car park. Caravans, motor homes, camper vans and other vehicles providing living accommodation may park in the car park between 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. daily. These vehicles may not park overnight because the car parks are not designed to facilitate vehicles providing living accommodation. There are caravan parks geographically located throughout the county that provide overnight parking facilities for caravans, camper vans and motor homes visiting the county.

Roscommon County Council welcome all tourists to the county and has a proud record of the development of a number of tourist attractions, leisure facilities and amenity areas in the county and also work with and support tourist organisations, tourist providers and the community in tourism development and promotion. The Council is satisfied that the Car Parking Bye Laws will not have a negative effect on tourism in the county.

Le meas



Úna Ní Chuinn,
Administrative Officer,
Community and Enterprise Section,
Roscommon County Council,
Roscommon West Business Park
Circular Road,
Roscommon.

email: unichuinn@roscommoncoco.ie

unfit2006

Compare the above to the press statement from Fylde Council in the UK. It also goes some way to explain why motorhome owners still flock to France in their droves where they are welcomed by local towns and villages and encouraged to stop over in their region. Aires , Municipal sites and commercial sites all operating together to provide a comprehensive, value for money, locally based tourist product.
Surely Mr. Dawson, his officials and the public reps. can see this opportunity for themselves. As it stands, their handling of this issue in County Roscommon has created such a negative impression for the County that they couldnt attract more negative comment even if they tried.
To what extent was the decision taken by RCC a result of pressure from business interests in one area of the county and one public representative in particular ???? Motor caravans were a soft target for the public rep and the Council in this particular instance. But is this a "home town win" or a case of shooting ones self in both feet.

On a different note, it makes one wonder how effective RCC have been in dealing with other (more challenging) instances of "overnight camping" in non-designated areas within their area of control.

As Paul Daniels would say .... "not a lot"

Irishgoatman

Thanks for posting this Des,

Do you, or anyone know what the penalty is for overstaying the 8pm deadline?.

If it's not too drastic I might be tempted to test them by parking, somewhere nice along the Shannon, having a few drinks and if I'm told to move plead "sorry I've had too much to drink to drive". Whatever the result it might make a few inches in the papers!!.

Anyone prepared to help bail me out if I'm arrested? .

Irishgoatman

I've just sent the person who replied to Des an email asking what the penalty would be.
Reply might be interesting!.

For some reason I feel really bolshie at the moment.:)

Buford T Justice

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I've just sent the person who replied to Des an email asking what the penalty would be.
Reply might be interesting!.

For some reason I feel really bolshie at the moment.:)

That's old age crankiness creeping in again. Just need a pipe and tweed blanket in the corner and shaking you're stick and you'll be all set.

Irishgoatman

Buford T Justice wrote: »

That's old age crankiness creeping in again. Just need a pipe and tweed blanket in the corner and shaking you're stick and you'll be all set.

Sounds as though you've been spying on me (or speaking with one of my ex wives).:eek:

Buford T Justice

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Sounds as though you've been spying on me (or speaking with one of my ex wives).:eek:

Nah, I've got it creeping up on me too (and I'm only 30 EEK!) I can feel the random grouchiness and being a cynical old crank coming out every so often.

Irishgoatman

It's a great excuse when there's a good cause like this one to fight.