Why do the Irish love the Democrats ?

Fr Tod Umptious

What is it with the Irish in Ireland and their love for the Democrats?
From the media to people on the street they all seem to have this great love for all things Democratic and think that all Republicans are crazy.
And it seems more so now that Obama is president. Why do Irish people see him as some sort of bastion of all that is good and righteous ?
I can’t understand it, because if you look at it, we Irish act far more like Republicans than Democrats.
Consider
1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?
Why are Labour not the biggest party ?
2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse
3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.
4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s
5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.
6. Climate Change -
So why is it we are so pro Democrats when it comes to the affairs of the United States.
Is it because we somehow want other people to do the socially responsible things in this world
Do as I say not as I do.

spank_inferno

Several reasons I suppose.

In my opinion....
- we have a leftist state media who certainly drink the democrat cool-aid... its audience (thats us!) tend to like what we are told to like.

- The democrats these days are more..."Hollywood", more desirable, their flag bearers are seen as being nicer, smarter people. (again probably tilted by the media)

- The Kennedys.

Cant think of anything else, but I do agree with you.
The Irish are very conservative.
Apart from the diocotomy of wanting someone else to do everything for them, from cradle to the grave... yet not pay for it, I see the Irish as being very GOP in their nature.

28064212

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?

The largest right-wing parties in Ireland are still to the left of the Democrats in the US, both on economic and social issues.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse

If the public sector was half the size, it would still be bigger per capita than the US equivalent.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.

Again, if the dole (and the minimum wage) was slashed here, it would still be more than the Democrats campaign for in America

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s

2 pro abortion referendums passed in the last 20 years (1992, 2002). Would abortion-on-demand pass? Probably not. But abortion in certain circumstances certainly would (again)

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.

That's just not true:
http://www.iccl.ie/news/2011/03/07/same-sex-marriage-poll-bolsters-case-for-reform-says-iccl.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0227/1224241892986.html

You're not comparing like for like. "Right" in Ireland is much closer to the Democrats than the Republicans

Memnoch

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What is it with the Irish in Ireland and their love for the Democrats?
From the media to people on the street they all seem to have this great love for all things Democratic and think that all Republicans are crazy.
And it seems more so now that Obama is president. Why do Irish people see him as some sort of bastion of all that is good and righteous ?
I can’t understand it, because if you look at it, we Irish act far more like Republicans than Democrats.
Consider
1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?
Why are Labour not the biggest party ?
2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse
3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.
4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s
5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.
6. Climate Change -
So why is it we are so pro Democrats when it comes to the affairs of the United States.
Is it because we somehow want other people to do the socially responsible things in this world
Do as I say not as I do.

Because the American right has shifted so far to the extreme that they make even centre right positions (like those of the democrats which are still to the right of centrist Irish politics) appear positively left wing.

Memnoch

spank_inferno wrote: »

Several reasons I suppose.

In my opinion....
- we have a leftist state media who certainly drink the democrat cool-aid... its audience (thats us!) tend to like what we are told to like.

- The democrats these days are more..."Hollywood", more desirable, their flag bearers are seen as being nicer, smarter people. (again probably tilted by the media)

Seriously?

Sarah Palin
Michelle Backman
Newt Gingrich
Rick Perry
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

Oh and let's not forget, the most recent republican president. Bush.

I mean... seriously?

Lukker-

Look at the republican states, it's pretty clear why people would want nothing to do with their ideals or values.

Solair

It's totally untrue that Ireland's voted for right-wing parties since the foundation of the state. We don't actually have any parties that you could define as right wing.

The Irish political system is absolutely centrist in almost everything it does and seems to generally go for consensus rather than hard left/right shifts. That's down to the nature of the electoral system and the nature of Irish politics generally.

FF and FG have a history of being socially quite conservative, in line with the Catholic Church's views on various issues. However, this was also the popular view at the time and I don't really think either party was particularly ideologically driven in that regard. They reacted to how they were being manipulated by a very powerful force in public life at the time in Ireland and they went with whatever got votes. The US democratic party, particularly the old-school democrats around Boston weren't all that different tbh.

In terms of economics, both FF and FG would be described as centre / centre left. They're both quite socialist in their leanings and fit into the model of the US Democratic Party much more than the Republican Party.

Labour is most definitely centre left, there's no way you could describe them as hard left.

Sinn Fein has moved from Left to Centre Left as there are no votes on the hard left.

Also, on the issues the OP mentioned above, opinion polling would suggest otherwise, particularly on Gay Marriage where there was actually very little opposition in polls conducted and abortion would quite possibly pass a referendum too if polls were to hold true in a referendum.

There's very very little market for US Republican style politics in Ireland. It's just totally alien to the political landscape here. We're very much social democrats.

If you think of it in a Simpson's context. Irish politicians almost all fit perfectly into the Diamond Joe Quimby mould of politics and he's a caricature of a Massachusetts / East Coast US Democratic Party type

Btw : In the context of US politics, a lot of East Coast old-school blue-blood Republicans (American versions of British Tories) are quite alienated by the current Republican Party. The shift towards religious-redneck conservative type driving forces has really left them feeling rather disconnected with the party and, in a lot of cases, they're moving toward the more conservative aspects of the Democratic Party. it's possible that Mitt Romney might bring them back on board again.

Sunnyisland

Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates.Just saying.

Solair

realies wrote: »

Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates.Just saying.

Irish-Americans and Irish people in Ireland have little in common politically though. They're two very different political environments.

My experience of Irish American Catholics is that they often have more in common with Irish values of the 1950/60s/70s than 2012. I found a lot of them to be quite surprisingly conservative.

Ireland's changed *a lot* - Almost unrecognisable in many respects when it comes to social stuff. There has been a huge divergence between the US and Ireland on a lot of these issues. Ireland's FAR more liberal than it used to be and those changes happened over a very short time 10-20 years.

southsiderosie

realies wrote: »

Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates.Just saying.

Unfortunately it is behind a paywall, but the Wall Street Journal had a very interesting article yesterday on how Catholics in the US were kind of the ultimate 'swing' bloc of voters. The Catholic vote (which of course includes Poles, Italians, Mexicans, etc) 'predicted' the winner of 9 out of the last 10 presidential elections (and quite a few Congressional elections), so it is a pretty good bellweather.

RichieC

I get my US news from US sources so it's nout to do with RTE brainwashing.

Fact is we have nothing in common with the republican party. Not much with the Dems either. They are the slightly more rational of the two.

Manach

Given the geographically vast expanse of the US, there are likely to be very regional variations on the both party platforms, for instance a republican from the South vs one from the New England state. So a straight forward comparision with the US and Ireland need to take that into account.
As other posters mentioned, there is the tendancy to identify with the party of the Kennedy Brothers, and the great work they had done on behalf of the Irish community - Northern Ireland, Emmigration reform etc.
For myself, I'd identify with the traditional conservative social message of the Republicans, though would be a tad skeptical of some of their more pure free market slant.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RichieC

FF never really had a coherent political philosophy beyond what gets the votes. To ascribe any wing is folly.

Solair

RichieC wrote: »

FF never really had a coherent political philosophy beyond what gets the votes. To ascribe any wing is folly.

Yeah, they're basically just populists that change policy depending on which way the wind's blowing.

That's democracy for ya though. You give the people what they want. Unfortunately in the case of FF, that also tends to be stuff that it's very good for them like property bubbles and subsequent collapses.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

steelcityblues

Memnoch wrote: »

Seriously?

Sarah Palin
Michelle Backman
Newt Gingrich
Rick Perry
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

Oh and let's not forget, the most recent republican president. Bush.

I mean... seriously?

Rachel Maddow
Keith Olbermann
Chris Matthews
Al Sharpton

Both sides have their propagandists and overall wackos.

RichieC

Journalists and al sharpton..

steelcityblues

RichieC wrote: »

Journalists and al sharpton..

They are not 'journalists', they shamelessly spin for one side of the two headed monster, just like O'Reilly and Hannity on the other outlet.

I take it you have no problem with that, as long as it comes from your side of the fence.

As for Sharpton, he is a part of MSNBC these days, and has a history of racist remarks, btw.

Chuck Stone

28064212 wrote: »

If the public sector was half the size, it would still be bigger per capita than the US equivalent.

Does that include the Dept of Defence, NASA, foreign aid and private security contractors I wonder?

RichieC

steelcityblues wrote: »

RichieC wrote: »

Journalists and al sharpton..

They are not 'journalists', they shamelessly spin for one side of the two headed monster, just like O'Reilly and Hannity on the other outlet.

I take it you have no problem with that, as long as it comes from your side of the fence.

As for Sharpton, he is a part of MSNBC these days, and has a history of racist remarks, btw.

Beside the point. You compared to aming other things, a sitting governer and an ex governer.

southsiderosie

RichieC and steelcityblues, I think this is getting off-topic. Let's get back to the Irish and Democrats. If you want to start a thread about American media bias, feel free.

SSR

Memnoch

steelcityblues wrote: »

Rachel Maddow
Keith Olbermann
Chris Matthews
Al Sharpton

Both sides have their propagandists and overall wackos.

Don't know Chris Matthews and not very familiar with Al Sharpton (have heard of him but never really listened to him).

There are partisans and propagandists on all sides, sure. But the comparison is false.

This is part of the typical tactics of the right. Equivication. Please produce some quotes that show the people you listed to be just as crazy or stupid as the names I listed.

Edit: Or to put it another way, does the right have any sane/normal spokespeople left in the US? Ron Paul perhaps? But he is considered fringe by his own party so he can hardly considered to be one. And I'm not so sure about him anymore since I saw that picture of him at a party with some American neo nazi leaders.

steelcityblues

Memnoch,

They work for MSNBC, which is the 'blue' equivalent for FOX. No detailed explanations needed.

More interestingly, who would be a pro-Democrat person that you would concede is a dangerous partisan, as you have listed the Republicans. I agree with the names you have listed, too.

Memnoch

steelcityblues wrote: »

Memnoch,

They work for MSNBC, which is the 'blue' equivalent for FOX. No detailed explanations needed.

More interestingly, who would be a pro-Democrat person that you would concede is a dangerous partisan, as you have listed the Republicans. I agree with the names you have listed, too.

That's just it. I don't think it's the blue equivalent of Fox. I don't think anything can compete with Fox. The extent to which they lie, deceive, manipulate and obfuscate is just unbelievable.

Well the main person who I respect on the left is probably Noam Chomsky. Other than that there aren't really any left wing 'celebrities,' that I subscribe to. I have a grudging respect for Obama though he is centre right on a lot of issues.

Robert Fisk is another person I have a lot of respect for.

So in answer to your question. I don't really know of any left wing people who are as prominent and as crazy/dishonest/ignorant as the people I listed. Though I have heard Sharpton mention a couple of times as being a bit dodgy, but I haven't really paid enough attention to him to make up my mind about that.

I've seen Olbermann a couple of times. Yes he's partisan and he's a bit of a blowhard. But I don't find him creepy the way I find O'Reilly to be. With Olbermann I think he's genuinely passionate about his ideology. I don't think O'Reilly has an idealogy. I think he's just looking to propel his fame and fortune at any cost (bit like Romney.)

southsiderosie

Unless you think that an overwhelming love for Keith Olbermann explains why Irish people lean toward Democrats (and feel free to make a case for it! ), I don't see what this has to do with the OP. This is the last warning to stay on topic.

Richard

The Democrats are really a centterist, or even centre right party, whilst the Republicans are far right by European standards. They don't have a mainstream left-wing party.

In the UK, many members of the Conservative party supported Obama at the last election.

Fr Tod Umptious

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's a very interesting and true observation.

If you recall the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007

At the time the Irish media almost exclusively refereed it it as a bill crafted by Ted Kennedy, while in reality John McCain had a big input in it and the bill had support from none other than George W Bush.

Now it may be said that the Irish media would rightly focus on the 'Irish' angle to the bill, but it's no surprise to me that the Irish media largely overlook the t two high profile Reps. that supported it.

Memnoch wrote: »

Seriously?

Sarah Palin
Michelle Backman
Newt Gingrich
Rick Perry
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

Oh and let's not forget, the most recent republican president. Bush.

I mean... seriously?

Interesting that you omitted the two most high profile Republican's of the past four years there, McCain and Romney.

Or does the fact that the 2008 Rep candidate and the possible 2012 candidate are moderates not suit your argument ?

Jonny7

We don't have debate on evolution or creationism over here, we're past that. We're also quite relaxed as regards religion, its fairly classed as a hobby now rather than a central focus point.

So the religious aspect and the right-wing foreign policy aspect of most GOP contenders scare the bejesus out of us - and probably most of our counterparts in Europe.

Whilst the US was clearly divided down the line for Bush's second election, the rest of the world was polling 80% in favor of Kerry. Obviously its not just an Irish thing

Fr Tod Umptious

Jonny7 wrote: »

We don't have debate on evolution or creationism over here, we're past that. We're also quite relaxed as regards religion, its fairly classed as a hobby now rather than a central focus point.

So the religious aspect and the right-wing foreign policy aspect of most GOP contenders scare the bejesus out of us - and probably most of our counterparts in Europe.

Whilst the US was clearly divided down the line for Bush's second election, the rest of the world was polling 80% in favor of Kerry. Obviously its not just an Irish thing

To be fair I don't think they have the evolution or creationism debate in the US either.

Yes they may have it at the fringes of the Republican party but when it comes to the candidate running i.e McCain and possibly Romney, evolution or creationism is not an issue.

I really wonder how us Irish would take a to a Mormon running for high office.

irishh_bob

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What is it with the Irish in Ireland and their love for the Democrats?
From the media to people on the street they all seem to have this great love for all things Democratic and think that all Republicans are crazy.
And it seems more so now that Obama is president. Why do Irish people see him as some sort of bastion of all that is good and righteous ?
I can’t understand it, because if you look at it, we Irish act far more like Republicans than Democrats.
Consider
1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?
Why are Labour not the biggest party ?
2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse
3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.
4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s
5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.
6. Climate Change -
So why is it we are so pro Democrats when it comes to the affairs of the United States.
Is it because we somehow want other people to do the socially responsible things in this world
Do as I say not as I do.

1. until regan became president , something like 90% of irish americans voted democrat , JFK was a democrat

2. the republicans are traditionally the part of W.A.S.P,s

3. as for the media , the media in ireland are left wing so are going to have a lot more love for the more liberal party , that and the afforementioned irish america association with the democrats

irishh_bob

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

agree that the irish media barely hides their contempt for the GOP but their is more to it than the illegal irish issue when it comes to the media over here , RTE and the irish times sees the democrats as their idealogical bedfellows in every sense

irishh_bob

steelcityblues wrote: »

Memnoch,

They work for MSNBC, which is the 'blue' equivalent for FOX. No detailed explanations needed.

More interestingly, who would be a pro-Democrat person that you would concede is a dangerous partisan, as you have listed the Republicans. I agree with the names you have listed, too.

comparing fox news to msnbc is redicolous , msnbc is no more a propoganda machine than the bbc or rte is , fox news is a blatant mouthpiece for the GOP

RichieC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Jonny7 wrote: »

We don't have debate on evolution or creationism over here, we're past that. We're also quite relaxed as regards religion, its fairly classed as a hobby now rather than a central focus point.

So the religious aspect and the right-wing foreign policy aspect of most GOP contenders scare the bejesus out of us - and probably most of our counterparts in Europe.

Whilst the US was clearly divided down the line for Bush's second election, the rest of the world was polling 80% in favor of Kerry. Obviously its not just an Irish thing

To be fair I don't think they have the evolution or creationism debate in the US either.

Yes they may have it at the fringes of the Republican party but when it comes to the candidate running i.e McCain and possibly Romney, evolution or creationism is not an issue.

I really wonder how us Irish would take a to a Mormon running for high office.

To be fair youre wrong. Even bush while in office weighed in in the "teach the controversy".. how many of the currenr crop of GOP candidates believe in evolution? it is a disgracfully mainstream debate in the US and is as a consrquence digging its nails in over here and britain.

Memnoch

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Interesting that you omitted the two most high profile Republican's of the past four years there, McCain and Romney.

Or does the fact that the 2008 Rep candidate and the possible 2012 candidate are moderates not suit your argument ?

I'd be happy to discuss this with you but I'm likely to be further sanctioned for going off topic.

I'll gladly debate this specific issue with you in another thread or on here if a mod deems it relevant to current discussion.

southsiderosie

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Interesting that you omitted the two most high profile Republican's of the past four years there, McCain and Romney.

Or does the fact that the 2008 Rep candidate and the possible 2012 candidate are moderates not suit your argument ?

Memnoch wrote: »

I'd be happy to discuss this with you but I'm likely to be further sanctioned for going off topic.

I'll gladly debate this specific issue with you in another thread or on here if a mod deems it relevant to current discussion.

As long as this doesn't descend into the usual Fox News-lamestream media slugfest - which is where things were going - it's cool.

Memnoch

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Interesting that you omitted the two most high profile Republican's of the past four years there, McCain and Romney.

Or does the fact that the 2008 Rep candidate and the possible 2012 candidate are moderates not suit your argument ?

Fair question. Do you think Romney and McCain are really representative of republican values or the conservative base?

Here is what Ann Coulter had to say about McCain after the 2008 election:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29385

Indeed, the only good thing about McCain is that he gave us a genuine conservative, Sarah Palin. He's like one of those insects that lives just long enough to reproduce so that the species can survive. That's why a lot of us are referring to Sarah as "The One" these days.

The entire article is worth reading but the above quote is particularly illuminating.

And more recently:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/30/us-anncoulter-idUSTRE7AS2T320111130

Mere hours after raising eyebrows and generating headlines by seemingly calling Sen. John McCain (R.-Ariz.) a "douchebag," the conservative pundit appeared on "The Joy Behar Show" to set the record straight.

No, Coulter clarified, she didn't call McCain a douchebag. She called him a dickweed.

See? All better!

As the GOP has shifted more and more to the extreme of their party in order to keep their base intact the more moderate among them have been pushed out to the margins.

I had a lot of respect for McCain, but the way he reversed on so many of his positions really showed how little integrity he had. I'm not talking about small reversals either. Without adopting this more extreme approach he wouldn't have gotten relected for his seat. He was under attack by a 'tea party candidate' and swung to the extreme right and had to get Sarah's endorsement to retain his seat.

Since then he was one of the most vocal opponents of repealing DADT. So I'm not sure if he is a moderate or a conservative or simply a panderer.

Romney seems to be in a similar vein. The reason he's being called a flip flopper is because in order to compete with people like Gingrich and Santorum he's been also forced to shift to the right. (Because this seems to be the extreme that the party's base currently inhabits.)

I don't believe for a moment that a moderate Romney represents a moderate republican party. He is loved by the establishment, that much is clear. If he wins the primary it won't be because he is a moderate but because he has a truck load of money behind him from big businesses for whom he has promised to slash taxes and regulations helping to shore up their massive profit margins.

So in answer to your question on Romney and McCain:

1) People like them are declared as RINO's within their own party. I don't think you will see the same level of vitriol ever directed by the left towards 'moderate democrats.' Is there even such a thing? Probably not because most democrats are moderate by definition, while in conservative politics moderate is almost a pejorative. Romney being attacked as a Massacheusits Moderate by his fellow primary hopefuls.

2) I'm not sure what either of their ideologies really is, since they seem to shift with the wind on many issues.

3) The only reasons republicans hold their nose and vote for these guys is because they can't stand the idea of a democrat (black) in office. Not that all republicans are racist. But I'd say a significant chunk of their base(maybe 20%?) probably is.

irishh_bob

Memnoch wrote: »

Fair question. Do you think Romney and McCain are really representative of republican values or the conservative base?

Here is what Ann Coulter had to say about McCain after the 2008 election:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29385



The entire article is worth reading but the above quote is particularly illuminating.

And more recently:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/30/us-anncoulter-idUSTRE7AS2T320111130



As the GOP has shifted more and more to the extreme of their party in order to keep their base intact the more moderate among them have been pushed out to the margins.

I had a lot of respect for McCain, but the way he reversed on so many of his positions really showed how little integrity he had. I'm not talking about small reversals either. Without adopting this more extreme approach he wouldn't have gotten relected for his seat. He was under attack by a 'tea party candidate' and swung to the extreme right and had to get Sarah's endorsement to retain his seat.

Since then he was one of the most vocal opponents of repealing DADT. So I'm not sure if he is a moderate or a conservative or simply a panderer.

Romney seems to be in a similar vein. The reason he's being called a flip flopper is because in order to compete with people like Gingrich and Santorum he's been also forced to shift to the right. (Because this seems to be the extreme that the party's base currently inhabits.)

I don't believe for a moment that a moderate Romney represents a moderate republican party. He is loved by the establishment, that much is clear. If he wins the primary it won't be because he is a moderate but because he has a truck load of money behind him from big businesses for whom he has promised to slash taxes and regulations helping to shore up their massive profit margins.

So in answer to your question on Romney and McCain:

1) People like them are declared as RINO's within their own party. I don't think you will see the same level of vitriol ever directed by the left towards 'moderate democrats.' Is there even such a thing? Probably not because most democrats are moderate by definition, while in conservative politics moderate is almost a pejorative. Romney being attacked as a Massacheusits Moderate by his fellow primary hopefuls.

2) I'm not sure what either of their ideologies really is, since they seem to shift with the wind on many issues.

3) The only reasons republicans hold their nose and vote for these guys is because they can't stand the idea of a democrat (black) in office. Not that all republicans are racist. But I'd say a significant chunk of their base(maybe 20%?) probably is.

if ann coulter spoke about john mc cain like that , thats just another reason for me to like the senator , insults from a poisionous reptile like coulter are a sure sign that mc cain is a decent skin

Memnoch

irishh_bob wrote: »

if ann coulter spoke about john mc cain like that , thats just another reason for me to like the senator , insults from a poisionous reptile like coulter are a sure sign that mc cain is a decent skin

Perhaps, but sadly, Coulter seems more representative of the republican base than McCain, which is why the Irish gravitate towards the democrats.

It's not that the republicans have crazies in their ranks. It's the level of prominence and popularity that these crazies achieve to the point where their insane ideas are defined as mainstream by the right wing and even trying to approach anything with a remotely balanced viewpoint is instantly labelled as far left extremism.

That is why Irish people and most others around the world gravitate towards the democrats.

Remember, Rush Limbaugh has the highest listenership of talk radio in the country.

randd1

Republicans don't appeal to most Irish people. The image of republican voter over here is that of the bible-thumping, non-Christian hating, anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-immigrant, pro-gun, racist, loony rednecks who doesn't believe in evolution while the view of republican politicians is gun apologist, other-country hating, imperialist warmongers who exist in politics to support the upper class. There also the view here that members of hate groups like the KKK would most likely be republican/tea party (probably because such groups are more likely to be in red states) and that doesn't appeal to many Irish people.

Its an unfair generalization of the vast, vast majority of republicans but its the view we have of them and its probably why we tend to gravitate to democrats. And arguably the US presidents who have been most influential in the Irish culture and the Irish psyche were democrats (JFK, Clinton).

matthew8

The media. RTE could convince the Irish people that the republicans are better if they wanted to.

hooradiation

matthew8 wrote: »

The media. RTE could convince the Irish people that the republicans are better if they wanted to.

I'm not sure RTE could bend reality that much. "Find them slightly less repugnant" might be the best they could hope for.

texidub

The 'why' of Irish support for the Democrats is one of those unthought givens in the Irish psyche --the broad support for the Palestinian cause in Ireland is another example.

I was back in Ireland during the build up to the last Presidential election. Obama supprters all around. Not one of them I asked --and I asked a lot of them-- could describe a single Obama policy.

Irish interest in US affairs is generally, superficial and aesthetic, rather than substantial or thought through.

I know this doesn't answer the 'why'.. but in a way that's my point. There is no 'why' to Irish support for the Democratic party... it's mostly unreflective and reflexive.

Obama has expanded the conflict in Pakistan, is sabre-rattling toward Iran.. and STILL enjoys huge support in Ireland.

Goodness, if Bush was pursuing these policies, there'd be condemnation left, right, and centre.

Maddeningly unprincipled stuff.

Mick7_62

As possibly the only American on this board let me tell you with 100% authority, the creationism v evolution topic is not discussed, let alone debated. We just don't care.

southsiderosie

Mick7_62 wrote: »

As possibly the only American on this board let me tell you with 100% authority, the creationism v evolution topic is not discussed, let alone debated. We just don't care.

You're not the only American on this board.

The issue does flare up occasionally, and it is an issue because if it gets written into Texas schoolbooks, it gets distributed around the country because they are a major textbook producer. Except these days, the debate isn't over creationism, it's 'intelligent design'. But since the economy tanked, people don't really have the energy to worry about this kind of silliness as much.

That said, part of the problem is that the stories that people outside of the US see about American politics and culture tend to be the most extreme or outrageous. So there is kind of an exaggerated sense of what is going on in the US, because people in Europe tend to disproportionately hear about the extremes of American politics and culture.

Mick7_62

Agreed. I also think that particular subject is debated more in the "24 hour" news-cycle than by real Americans. It's been my experience that it has little weight at the ballot box, and more weight with the talking heads on the "dumb box!"

Brian?

steelcityblues wrote: »

Rachel Maddow
Keith Olbermann
Chris Matthews

Both sides have their propagandists and overall wackos.

The above are certainly not "propagandists and wackos". They are journalists with left leaning opinions. They still tell the truth. Bill O'Reilly, Hannity, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter have been caught out many times as plain liars.

Living in the US for a couple of months now so I am exposed daily to Fox News, CNN and MSNBC.

MSNBC might only give you the opionion of one side of the political divide in terms of commentary, but at least they give you the truth in straight news. Fox "news" actually has no new programs but a constant stream of opinion pieces. There is absolutly now balance whatsoever. At least MSNBC regularly invites Republicans on their debate programs.

CNN is right wing, truthful and fairly balanced.


I've taken out Al Sharpton for a good reason BTW.

Dob74

Memnoch wrote: »

Seriously?

Sarah Palin
Michelle Backman
Newt Gingrich
Rick Perry
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

Oh and let's not forget, the most recent republican president. Bush.

I mean... seriously?

All exterme, and not taken seriously. None of the list would be elected in most states only solid red states like tx, min,and Al.

Bush run as a moderate and ran the country like Fianna Fail. Cutting taxes and increasing spending. That's why we and the US are ban-jaxted.

Foreign media coverage is biased against republicians. Probably because they are based in major cities which are strongly democrat.

Dob74

briankeating wrote: »

The above are certainly not "propagandists and wackos". They are journalists with left leaning opinions. They still tell the truth. Bill O'Reilly, Hannity, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter have been caught out many times as plain liars.

Living in the US for a couple of months now so I am exposed daily to Fox News, CNN and MSNBC.

MSNBC might only give you the opionion of one side of the political divide in terms of commentary, but at least they give you the truth in straight news. Fox "news" actually has no new programs but a constant stream of opinion pieces. There is absolutly now balance whatsoever. At least MSNBC regularly invites Republicans on their debate programs.

CNN is right wing, truthful and fairly balanced.


I've taken out Al Sharpton for a good reason BTW.

Fox news is a complete joke.
MSNBC is a business cannel and is wall street propagrada.
CNN I would consider it slightly left rather right. But is owed by time warner so it will be pro business.

Most Americans watch local news and arent bothered by the crap on cable news.
Brian Williams is by far the best source of news on a national level. 630 eastern time on NBC.

mcmoustache

There are three important reasons why I think the Irish prefer Democrats.

The first is their presidents over the last few years - regardless of how effective they were at running their country, Democrat presidents were more cuddly and likeable.

The second is that Republicans have had to pander to the religious crowd since Reagan and the associated rhetoric creeps us out.

The third is that in recent memory, Republicans have come across as more bellicose and fond of war.

I think that any deeper analysis is pointless because it doesn't factor into how people make their minds up about which side they prefer.

Brian?

Dob74 wrote: »

briankeating wrote: »

The above are certainly not "propagandists and wackos". They are journalists with left leaning opinions. They still tell the truth. Bill O'Reilly, Hannity, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter have been caught out many times as plain liars.

Living in the US for a couple of months now so I am exposed daily to Fox News, CNN and MSNBC.

MSNBC might only give you the opionion of one side of the political divide in terms of commentary, but at least they give you the truth in straight news. Fox "news" actually has no new programs but a constant stream of opinion pieces. There is absolutly now balance whatsoever. At least MSNBC regularly invites Republicans on their debate programs.

CNN is right wing, truthful and fairly balanced.


I've taken out Al Sharpton for a good reason BTW.

Fox news is a complete joke.
MSNBC is a business cannel and is wall street propagrada.
CNN I would consider it slightly left rather right. But is owed by time warner so it will be pro business.

Most Americans watch local news and arent bothered by the crap on cable news.
Brian Williams is by far the best source of news on a national level. 630 eastern time on NBC.

I think you're mixing up CNBC and MSNBC there horse. Rachel Maddow etc are on MSNBC, CNBC is the bidness network.

Unfortunately there are a large minority of people here who get their news via Fox. Check the ratings, Fox is out ahead.