Why do the Irish love the Democrats ?

Fr Tod Umptious

What is it with the Irish in Ireland and their love for the Democrats?
From the media to people on the street they all seem to have this great love for all things Democratic and think that all Republicans are crazy.
And it seems more so now that Obama is president. Why do Irish people see him as some sort of bastion of all that is good and righteous ?
I can’t understand it, because if you look at it, we Irish act far more like Republicans than Democrats.
Consider
1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?
Why are Labour not the biggest party ?
2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse
3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.
4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s
5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.
6. Climate Change -
So why is it we are so pro Democrats when it comes to the affairs of the United States.
Is it because we somehow want other people to do the socially responsible things in this world
Do as I say not as I do.

spank_inferno

Several reasons I suppose.

In my opinion....
- we have a leftist state media who certainly drink the democrat cool-aid... its audience (thats us!) tend to like what we are told to like.

- The democrats these days are more..."Hollywood", more desirable, their flag bearers are seen as being nicer, smarter people. (again probably tilted by the media)

- The Kennedys.

Cant think of anything else, but I do agree with you.
The Irish are very conservative.
Apart from the diocotomy of wanting someone else to do everything for them, from cradle to the grave... yet not pay for it, I see the Irish as being very GOP in their nature.

28064212

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?

The largest right-wing parties in Ireland are still to the left of the Democrats in the US, both on economic and social issues.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse

If the public sector was half the size, it would still be bigger per capita than the US equivalent.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.

Again, if the dole (and the minimum wage) was slashed here, it would still be more than the Democrats campaign for in America

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s

2 pro abortion referendums passed in the last 20 years (1992, 2002). Would abortion-on-demand pass? Probably not. But abortion in certain circumstances certainly would (again)

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.

That's just not true:
http://www.iccl.ie/news/2011/03/07/same-sex-marriage-poll-bolsters-case-for-reform-says-iccl.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0227/1224241892986.html

You're not comparing like for like. "Right" in Ireland is much closer to the Democrats than the Republicans

Memnoch

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What is it with the Irish in Ireland and their love for the Democrats?
From the media to people on the street they all seem to have this great love for all things Democratic and think that all Republicans are crazy.
And it seems more so now that Obama is president. Why do Irish people see him as some sort of bastion of all that is good and righteous ?
I can’t understand it, because if you look at it, we Irish act far more like Republicans than Democrats.
Consider
1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?
Why are Labour not the biggest party ?
2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse
3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.
4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s
5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.
6. Climate Change -
So why is it we are so pro Democrats when it comes to the affairs of the United States.
Is it because we somehow want other people to do the socially responsible things in this world
Do as I say not as I do.

Because the American right has shifted so far to the extreme that they make even centre right positions (like those of the democrats which are still to the right of centrist Irish politics) appear positively left wing.

Memnoch

spank_inferno wrote: »

Several reasons I suppose.

In my opinion....
- we have a leftist state media who certainly drink the democrat cool-aid... its audience (thats us!) tend to like what we are told to like.

- The democrats these days are more..."Hollywood", more desirable, their flag bearers are seen as being nicer, smarter people. (again probably tilted by the media)

Seriously?

Sarah Palin
Michelle Backman
Newt Gingrich
Rick Perry
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

Oh and let's not forget, the most recent republican president. Bush.

I mean... seriously?

Lukker-

Look at the republican states, it's pretty clear why people would want nothing to do with their ideals or values.

Solair

It's totally untrue that Ireland's voted for right-wing parties since the foundation of the state. We don't actually have any parties that you could define as right wing.

The Irish political system is absolutely centrist in almost everything it does and seems to generally go for consensus rather than hard left/right shifts. That's down to the nature of the electoral system and the nature of Irish politics generally.

FF and FG have a history of being socially quite conservative, in line with the Catholic Church's views on various issues. However, this was also the popular view at the time and I don't really think either party was particularly ideologically driven in that regard. They reacted to how they were being manipulated by a very powerful force in public life at the time in Ireland and they went with whatever got votes. The US democratic party, particularly the old-school democrats around Boston weren't all that different tbh.

In terms of economics, both FF and FG would be described as centre / centre left. They're both quite socialist in their leanings and fit into the model of the US Democratic Party much more than the Republican Party.

Labour is most definitely centre left, there's no way you could describe them as hard left.

Sinn Fein has moved from Left to Centre Left as there are no votes on the hard left.

Also, on the issues the OP mentioned above, opinion polling would suggest otherwise, particularly on Gay Marriage where there was actually very little opposition in polls conducted and abortion would quite possibly pass a referendum too if polls were to hold true in a referendum.

There's very very little market for US Republican style politics in Ireland. It's just totally alien to the political landscape here. We're very much social democrats.

If you think of it in a Simpson's context. Irish politicians almost all fit perfectly into the Diamond Joe Quimby mould of politics and he's a caricature of a Massachusetts / East Coast US Democratic Party type

Btw : In the context of US politics, a lot of East Coast old-school blue-blood Republicans (American versions of British Tories) are quite alienated by the current Republican Party. The shift towards religious-redneck conservative type driving forces has really left them feeling rather disconnected with the party and, in a lot of cases, they're moving toward the more conservative aspects of the Democratic Party. it's possible that Mitt Romney might bring them back on board again.

Sunnyisland

Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates.Just saying.

Solair

realies wrote: »

Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates.Just saying.

Irish-Americans and Irish people in Ireland have little in common politically though. They're two very different political environments.

My experience of Irish American Catholics is that they often have more in common with Irish values of the 1950/60s/70s than 2012. I found a lot of them to be quite surprisingly conservative.

Ireland's changed *a lot* - Almost unrecognisable in many respects when it comes to social stuff. There has been a huge divergence between the US and Ireland on a lot of these issues. Ireland's FAR more liberal than it used to be and those changes happened over a very short time 10-20 years.

southsiderosie

realies wrote: »

Exit polls show that in recent presidential elections Irish Catholics have split about 50-50 for Democratic and Republican candidates.Just saying.

Unfortunately it is behind a paywall, but the Wall Street Journal had a very interesting article yesterday on how Catholics in the US were kind of the ultimate 'swing' bloc of voters. The Catholic vote (which of course includes Poles, Italians, Mexicans, etc) 'predicted' the winner of 9 out of the last 10 presidential elections (and quite a few Congressional elections), so it is a pretty good bellweather.

RichieC

I get my US news from US sources so it's nout to do with RTE brainwashing.

Fact is we have nothing in common with the republican party. Not much with the Dems either. They are the slightly more rational of the two.

Manach

Given the geographically vast expanse of the US, there are likely to be very regional variations on the both party platforms, for instance a republican from the South vs one from the New England state. So a straight forward comparision with the US and Ireland need to take that into account.
As other posters mentioned, there is the tendancy to identify with the party of the Kennedy Brothers, and the great work they had done on behalf of the Irish community - Northern Ireland, Emmigration reform etc.
For myself, I'd identify with the traditional conservative social message of the Republicans, though would be a tad skeptical of some of their more pure free market slant.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RichieC

FF never really had a coherent political philosophy beyond what gets the votes. To ascribe any wing is folly.

Solair

RichieC wrote: »

FF never really had a coherent political philosophy beyond what gets the votes. To ascribe any wing is folly.

Yeah, they're basically just populists that change policy depending on which way the wind's blowing.

That's democracy for ya though. You give the people what they want. Unfortunately in the case of FF, that also tends to be stuff that it's very good for them like property bubbles and subsequent collapses.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

steelcityblues

Memnoch wrote: »

Seriously?

Sarah Palin
Michelle Backman
Newt Gingrich
Rick Perry
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

Oh and let's not forget, the most recent republican president. Bush.

I mean... seriously?

Rachel Maddow
Keith Olbermann
Chris Matthews
Al Sharpton

Both sides have their propagandists and overall wackos.

RichieC

Journalists and al sharpton..

steelcityblues

RichieC wrote: »

Journalists and al sharpton..

They are not 'journalists', they shamelessly spin for one side of the two headed monster, just like O'Reilly and Hannity on the other outlet.

I take it you have no problem with that, as long as it comes from your side of the fence.

As for Sharpton, he is a part of MSNBC these days, and has a history of racist remarks, btw.

Chuck Stone

28064212 wrote: »

If the public sector was half the size, it would still be bigger per capita than the US equivalent.

Does that include the Dept of Defence, NASA, foreign aid and private security contractors I wonder?

RichieC

steelcityblues wrote: »

RichieC wrote: »

Journalists and al sharpton..

They are not 'journalists', they shamelessly spin for one side of the two headed monster, just like O'Reilly and Hannity on the other outlet.

I take it you have no problem with that, as long as it comes from your side of the fence.

As for Sharpton, he is a part of MSNBC these days, and has a history of racist remarks, btw.

Beside the point. You compared to aming other things, a sitting governer and an ex governer.

southsiderosie

RichieC and steelcityblues, I think this is getting off-topic. Let's get back to the Irish and Democrats. If you want to start a thread about American media bias, feel free.

SSR

Memnoch

steelcityblues wrote: »

Rachel Maddow
Keith Olbermann
Chris Matthews
Al Sharpton

Both sides have their propagandists and overall wackos.

Don't know Chris Matthews and not very familiar with Al Sharpton (have heard of him but never really listened to him).

There are partisans and propagandists on all sides, sure. But the comparison is false.

This is part of the typical tactics of the right. Equivication. Please produce some quotes that show the people you listed to be just as crazy or stupid as the names I listed.

Edit: Or to put it another way, does the right have any sane/normal spokespeople left in the US? Ron Paul perhaps? But he is considered fringe by his own party so he can hardly considered to be one. And I'm not so sure about him anymore since I saw that picture of him at a party with some American neo nazi leaders.

steelcityblues

Memnoch,

They work for MSNBC, which is the 'blue' equivalent for FOX. No detailed explanations needed.

More interestingly, who would be a pro-Democrat person that you would concede is a dangerous partisan, as you have listed the Republicans. I agree with the names you have listed, too.

Memnoch

steelcityblues wrote: »

Memnoch,

They work for MSNBC, which is the 'blue' equivalent for FOX. No detailed explanations needed.

More interestingly, who would be a pro-Democrat person that you would concede is a dangerous partisan, as you have listed the Republicans. I agree with the names you have listed, too.

That's just it. I don't think it's the blue equivalent of Fox. I don't think anything can compete with Fox. The extent to which they lie, deceive, manipulate and obfuscate is just unbelievable.

Well the main person who I respect on the left is probably Noam Chomsky. Other than that there aren't really any left wing 'celebrities,' that I subscribe to. I have a grudging respect for Obama though he is centre right on a lot of issues.

Robert Fisk is another person I have a lot of respect for.

So in answer to your question. I don't really know of any left wing people who are as prominent and as crazy/dishonest/ignorant as the people I listed. Though I have heard Sharpton mention a couple of times as being a bit dodgy, but I haven't really paid enough attention to him to make up my mind about that.

I've seen Olbermann a couple of times. Yes he's partisan and he's a bit of a blowhard. But I don't find him creepy the way I find O'Reilly to be. With Olbermann I think he's genuinely passionate about his ideology. I don't think O'Reilly has an idealogy. I think he's just looking to propel his fame and fortune at any cost (bit like Romney.)

southsiderosie

Unless you think that an overwhelming love for Keith Olbermann explains why Irish people lean toward Democrats (and feel free to make a case for it! ), I don't see what this has to do with the OP. This is the last warning to stay on topic.

Richard

The Democrats are really a centterist, or even centre right party, whilst the Republicans are far right by European standards. They don't have a mainstream left-wing party.

In the UK, many members of the Conservative party supported Obama at the last election.

Fr Tod Umptious

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's a very interesting and true observation.

If you recall the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007

At the time the Irish media almost exclusively refereed it it as a bill crafted by Ted Kennedy, while in reality John McCain had a big input in it and the bill had support from none other than George W Bush.

Now it may be said that the Irish media would rightly focus on the 'Irish' angle to the bill, but it's no surprise to me that the Irish media largely overlook the t two high profile Reps. that supported it.

Memnoch wrote: »

Seriously?

Sarah Palin
Michelle Backman
Newt Gingrich
Rick Perry
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

Oh and let's not forget, the most recent republican president. Bush.

I mean... seriously?

Interesting that you omitted the two most high profile Republican's of the past four years there, McCain and Romney.

Or does the fact that the 2008 Rep candidate and the possible 2012 candidate are moderates not suit your argument ?

Jonny7

We don't have debate on evolution or creationism over here, we're past that. We're also quite relaxed as regards religion, its fairly classed as a hobby now rather than a central focus point.

So the religious aspect and the right-wing foreign policy aspect of most GOP contenders scare the bejesus out of us - and probably most of our counterparts in Europe.

Whilst the US was clearly divided down the line for Bush's second election, the rest of the world was polling 80% in favor of Kerry. Obviously its not just an Irish thing

Fr Tod Umptious

Jonny7 wrote: »

We don't have debate on evolution or creationism over here, we're past that. We're also quite relaxed as regards religion, its fairly classed as a hobby now rather than a central focus point.

So the religious aspect and the right-wing foreign policy aspect of most GOP contenders scare the bejesus out of us - and probably most of our counterparts in Europe.

Whilst the US was clearly divided down the line for Bush's second election, the rest of the world was polling 80% in favor of Kerry. Obviously its not just an Irish thing

To be fair I don't think they have the evolution or creationism debate in the US either.

Yes they may have it at the fringes of the Republican party but when it comes to the candidate running i.e McCain and possibly Romney, evolution or creationism is not an issue.

I really wonder how us Irish would take a to a Mormon running for high office.

irishh_bob

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What is it with the Irish in Ireland and their love for the Democrats?
From the media to people on the street they all seem to have this great love for all things Democratic and think that all Republicans are crazy.
And it seems more so now that Obama is president. Why do Irish people see him as some sort of bastion of all that is good and righteous ?
I can’t understand it, because if you look at it, we Irish act far more like Republicans than Democrats.
Consider
1. Our own politicians – Why have we elected right wing parties to be the biggest in parliament since the foundation of the state?
Why are Labour not the biggest party ?
2. Small Government – All I have hard for the last few years is that the public sector is too bloated and has to get smaller, something US republicans would espouse
3. Welfare state – Again all I hear is that the dole is too generous and the welfare recipients make more than workers. Cut the dole we are all shouthing.
4. Abortion – Not a chance a pro abortion referendum make it in Ireland in 2010’s
5. Gay issues – Gay marriage would struggle to get passed in a referendum, and gay adoption would have no chance.
6. Climate Change -
So why is it we are so pro Democrats when it comes to the affairs of the United States.
Is it because we somehow want other people to do the socially responsible things in this world
Do as I say not as I do.

1. until regan became president , something like 90% of irish americans voted democrat , JFK was a democrat

2. the republicans are traditionally the part of W.A.S.P,s

3. as for the media , the media in ireland are left wing so are going to have a lot more love for the more liberal party , that and the afforementioned irish america association with the democrats