Prison system

starviewadams

starviewadams wrote: »

Cloverhill and Wheafield are both decent enough too in comparison to Mountjoy,which is absolutely apalling.

Again, this is indicative of when they were built. Mountjoy was built in 1850, under British Rule. This was basically a hard labour camp with zero facilities.

Wheatfield and Cloverhill on the other hand were built around the time of the Celtic Tiger and would have been state of the art. It would make no sense to have them start out under Draconian conditions.

I'm not saying it's right. It's just possibly a reason why things are the way they are.

telekon

You're putting together a paper? Like a government white paper?


The country is so broke, the government has to seek 'professional' advice from After Hours...:pac:

44leto

Unless something catastrophic happens to me, or by some blind faith I am the victim of an injustice, I will never go to prison, I am certain of that.

In my mind, to end up in prison is a choice, one they don't have to make, so fkuc em is what i say. They really didn't have to end up there.

saywhatyousee

Why have prisons at all what is "right and wrong" is in fact just a matter of people's opinion's think about it!!

44leto

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Why have prisons at all what is "right and wrong" is in fact just a matter of people's opinion's think about it!!

Because society needs laws to protect society, that decides what is right and wrong in society. You need a system of deterrents to uphold this law.

starviewadams

44leto wrote: »

Unless something catastrophic happens to me, or by some blind faith I am the victim of an injustice, I will never go to prison, I am certain of that.

In my mind, to end up in prison is a choice, one they don't have to make, so fkuc em is what i say. They really didn't have to end up there.

A well thought out and considered thought process.

44leto

starviewadams wrote: »

A well thought out and considered thought process.

Why thank you kind sir.

saywhatyousee

44leto wrote: »

Because society needs laws to protect society, that decides what is right and wrong in society. You need a system of deterrents to uphold this law.

Laws decide on what is right and wrong in society?What if i did not vote for the current government sounds like persecution by the majority.Surely there should be a referendum every time the "Law" is changed.

mikemac1

Spot the anarchist

Next thing you'll be telling us you don't believe in private property and the land belongs to every Irish citizen

And ten thousand farmers are fetching their shotguns for you :eek:

saywhatyousee

mikemac1 wrote: »

Spot the anarchist

Next thing you'll be telling us you don't believe in private property and the land belongs to every Irish citizen

And ten thousand farmers are fetching their shotguns for you :eek:

What are you talking about of course i believe in private property???

byhookorbycrook

John Lonergan gave us a talk and the major factor in common for a huge amount of prisoners is poor literacy. He makes the point that it's a lot cheaper to set up proper pre-school intervention that to house one prisoner for a year.

later12

"The better the actual state of our prisons is known and understood, the more clearly will all men see the necessity of those arrangements, by which they may be rendered schools of industry and virtue, instead of the very nurseries of crime"

- Elizabeth Fry, Notes on a visit made to some of the Prisons.


Elizabeth Fry wrote her wise epistle in 1819. Almost 200 years later and we have not learned how to rehabilitate the common criminal. The system of incarceration employed in Ireland today is an ineffective and as irrational as it was two centuries ago. I would rather raze the prisons to the ground than have them maintained in their current order.

Irish prisons are no schools of industry. They remain the nursery not only of crime, but of a cheapened, denigrated level of human identity. We treat our prisoners appallingly, and they treat us appallingly in kind.

I would encourage anyone who is not yet convinced of the levels of humanitarian reform and intervention needed within the prison system to read the compelling reports of the former Inspector of Prisons, the late Mr Justice Dermot Kinlen.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/4thAnnRpt.pdf/Files/4thAnnRpt.pdf

bubbuz

Serious offenders, ie murderers, rapists, child abusers..... leave them in the appalling conditions of the modern day Irish prison.

Other offenders, ie assault, burglary, fraud etc....... bring back the chain gang, get them out doing hard labour, repairing our roads etc and get people moved off the dole and placed as security whilst the offenders are out. Money far better spent than improving prison conditions..... prisoners MADE to work for nothing, our roads being improved and less people on the dole

Odysseus

Omackeral wrote: »

Again, this is indicative of when they were built. Mountjoy was built in 1850, under British Rule. This was basically a hard labour camp with zero facilities.

Wheatfield and Cloverhill on the other hand were built around the time of the Celtic Tiger and would have been state of the art. It would make no sense to have them start out under Draconian conditions.

I'm not saying it's right. It's just possibly a reason why things are the way they are.

It was initally one man one cell, and each cell had a toilet when the brits first bulit it.

later12

bubbuz wrote: »

prisoners MADE to work for nothing, our roads being improved and less people on the dole

Apart from the fact that your suggestion would run into trouble with EU law, explain how exactly prisoners (who are generally unskilled labourers) working for nothing would realistically lower dole queues.

I mean I could see how they could take jobs from the labour force, but "lower" dole queues?

44leto

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Laws decide on what is right and wrong in society?What if i did not vote for the current government sounds like persecution by the majority.Surely there should be a referendum every time the "Law" is changed.

Its called a referendum and no you are born into the legality of that, it was invented by the Americans it is kind of a rights of man, or a rights of citizenship, if you go though human history it is actually a human achievement which started with the magna carta, it means you my dear chap have some sacred rights. Which is protected by a constitution, you are special and privileged, and many in this world of 8 billion envy you.

Jesus Wept

bubbuz wrote: »

Serious offenders, ie murderers, rapists, child abusers..... leave them in the appalling conditions of the modern day Irish prison.

As much as you may dislike it or wish to see it changed, most of these people are released at some point.

Can you not see that it would be better for society if when they were released, it wasn't after zero rehabilitation attempts and having been treated and taught to live like a feral animal for 20 odd years up to the day prior to being release back onto the streets?

Or do you want them to continue to rape, murder and abuse the people and children of the land?

Cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Ellie2008

telekon wrote: »

You're putting together a paper? Like a government white paper?


The country is so broke, the government has to seek 'professional' advice from After Hours...:pac:

No, I wish, I'm doing a course out of personal interest but I would hope to get an article published somewhere on the state of our prisons as it is my hope that maybe if the wider public knew more about the conditions in Mountjoy they would have more sympathy for those locked up there, therefore if the Minister did try push reforms through he wouldn't meet with a public backlash. Its quite ambitious I know and judging from the response to the poll maybe naive but a girl can dream!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ellie2008 wrote: »

No, I wish, I'm doing a course out of personal interest but I would hope to get an article published somewhere on the state of our prisons as it is my hope that maybe if the wider public knew more about the conditions in Mountjoy they would have more sympathy for those locked up there, therefore if the Minister did try push reforms through he wouldn't meet with a public backlash. Its quite ambitious I know and judging from the response to the poll maybe naive but a girl can dream!

People are not going to have much sympathy for a convicted criminal, especially if he's a repeat offender.

If the Minister pushes through reforms, I would hope he'd have enough sense to try and do something that would reduce recidvism rathre than just punish more, but a boy can dream too!