GAME in serious trouble

Sephiroth_dude

ah this is sad news,I'll be sad if game in cork closes down.

Doctor DooM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's sad to see these high street stores closing but to be honest other than a few bargains I never buy in them anymore. It's not even that digital that is killing them, it's the online stores that sell boxed copies. They only stock the big games so it's near impossible to find stuff like Tactics Ogre for the PSP (requiring me to take a trip to the other end of dublin when the closest Gamestop didn't have it). I can find any game I want online. Also they just can't match the prices of online stores with many big games dropping to 15-20 euros in 6 months. You'll find the same game for 40-45 in a high street store.

This a thousand times. I would rather shop in bricks and mortar, but they don't service me at all.

I went into Game not too long ago. The newest FG, King of Fighters XIII, had come out, and no where had it in town.

I asked in HMV and was basically looked at like I was insane, then told it wasn't out in Europe (it was) and that I had the name wrong (I hadn't).

My trip into Game was the most telling though, as I was informed I was about the 15th person to ask for it that day, with a shrug. It was all I could do not to grumble "might be an idea to get some in then, you being a game shop and all".

I want to spend money in bricks and mortar, but they don't want me too. I HAD to go to Amazon and wait for it.

ghostchant

Kinski wrote: »

I've had good experiences with the likes of Amazon and Play when returning faulty items. Popped them back in the post, and they were swifty replaced, the price of postage refunded.

On topic, it's a shame to think that staff in GAME may end up losing their jobs.

That's fair enough, but I discovered the 3DS was faulty on friday evening (the day of release), and had my replacement on Saturday morning. If I was willing to wait a week or more for the replacement I wouldn't have pre-ordered it in the first place

EDIT: I distinctly remember seeing KOF13 in GAME Dawson St. a few weeks ago, and came across plenty of new (and cheap) copies of Tactics Ogre in both GAME and HMV around the time of release. Gamestop are awful for anything remotely obscure though.

kearneybobs

You gotta ask, where are our games gonna come from if Gamestop will pretty much pull out of Ireland and Game could be going under too. Everything online??? or digital?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

It's an unfortunate reality of the current business that credit insurance is practically impossible to get - and credit itself from suppliers is getting harder and harder to maintain.

I'm not going to speack specifically about Game but in general terms the previously untouchable big boys of the industry are now being viewed as likely to default on their debt. In our own case you wouldn't believe me if I told you how tight our current limits are - we're effectively paying cash up front for our stock.

The average price of a game is massive - think of it this way a shop full of tins of beans would have a stock holding value of maybe 1% of the stock holding value of a game store. When your credit terms change / are cut at all you need to have massive amounts of cash tied up in your stock. This is what sunk Zavvi and it most likely will sink more.

Doctor DooM

ghostchant wrote: »

EDIT: I distinctly remember seeing KOF13 in GAME Dawson St. a few weeks ago, and came across plenty of new (and cheap) copies of Tactics Ogre in both GAME and HMV around the time of release. Gamestop are awful for anything remotely obscure though.

Yeah, over in the FG forum people started seeing copies of it around the place 2 or 3 weeks after release.

By which time, we'd all bought them online, and now no doubt they won't stock the next one as it sold so badly...

Stev_o

Id be pretty gutted to see GAME shut down in its current. However I think it is quite obvious that they'll be scaling towards being a online distribution service in the future since it's the only real viable option for them bar shutting down.

Honestly I don't know why shops like that are given such a rough time, yeah if your a PC Gamer the hay day of having multiple shelves of games is long and truly gone but im still able to go and buy a AAA game or a mid tier game at a competitive price compared to steam (60 quid for the MW games, nice one Valve). Plus iv always had good customer support in their, iv never had a problem trouble returning a game, even for the PC, again if you try this on Steam you'll likely punch a wall and want the Valve HQ to be bombed given how bad the customer service is.

Blowfish

Mr Bloat wrote: »

Look a little further than your own short-sighted outlook, to a future where all games have to be downloaded and there is nowhere, apart from Tesco to go and buy a game. I don't want that and after a while of that future, people like yourselves will be on this forum complaining that there is nowhere to browse games anymore.

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with that concept?

The last game I bought in a bricks and mortar shop was 4 years ago and even then it was only because I happened to be in town at the time of a midnight release.

I've over 100 items in my Steam library and yet don't even have a CD/DVD drive on my machine as it's just not needed any more.

If they have any sense, Game will push towards being an online only company with the odd physical shop here and there. Being honest though, they are very very late to that game so may not survive there either.

longhalloween

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Game will probably end up in bankruptcy, but I doubt this means the complete end of their bricks and mortar stores. Locations in the sticks will close, but profitable shops in major population centres will remain open.

I'm not surprised to see Game closing. In the Ilac at least they have a fairly poor selection of PS3 and 360 games i.e a whole shelf of the same game and only one of two facings in the used game section.

Used game prices are good, but Smyths, HMV and XtraVision are very similar.

Sad to see them go, but I don't think I've ever bought anything there.

Mr Bloat

Blowfish wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with that concept?

The last game I bought in a bricks and mortar shop was 4 years ago and even then it was only because I happened to be in town at the time of a midnight release.

I've over 100 items in my Steam library and yet don't even have a CD/DVD drive on my machine as it's just not needed any more.

If they have any sense, Game will push towards being an online only company with the odd physical shop here and there. Being honest though, they are very very late to that game so may not survive there either.

Maybe I'm old school but I love roaming around a gaming shop, picking up boxes here and there and looking at different stuff. I too have an extensive Steam library but I love the physical copy of a game. I have a decent collection of ebooks too but that doesn't stop me from enjoying browsing in the local library or book shops!
I'm not advocating for one second that people should shop in Game to keep them afloat. Game have dug their own grave with the policies and practices they have been going with but I wouldn't like to see gaming retail stores disappear completely. However, if Game moves to online only and Xtravision shuts down and the likes of HMV cater only for AAA titles, that leaves us with Gamestop. While I have no real beef with Gamestop, any company that has a monopoly like they may end up having usually ends up destroying itself. Which is pretty much what happened to Game once they became the dominant company in the UK after they took over Gamestation.

Wetai

Last time I was in game in Galway I noticed that they've had LOST pre-owned(i think) on PS3 in the hall-type section when walking in the door + going straight for YEARS now. It's still been there for as long as I can remember being in there. It's not strictly their fault, but still :P.

Gbear

It's just the way of things. It'll be interesting to see what city centres around the world look like when the shops are all replaced by websites..

Will Grafton St. just be a big row of McDonalds?

degrassinoel

starbucks more likely

calex71

There will always be a bricks and mortar of some kind I think, even if it turns out to be the only show in town which means bad for prices and competition etc.

Has the games industry slumped? In my experience no although it is so much harder now for new IP to establish itself without major $ behind it and that is a very big problem imo worse for the industry as a whole than anything else. Companies say pre-owned is killing them and adding all kinds of stuff like on line pass etc. but sure if the games and gamestops were not accepting trade-in's business for all concerned would be worse I think, I know I would not get as many new games, it would cut my game spend in half at least, and them people would simply go to adverts/gumtree/ebay etc to trade / swap.

It's a case i think of the industry wanting to see shops go under to a certain degree, as they would be wholeheartedly in favor of a digital distribution route to market over all platforms, for reasons I don't have to explain.

I think in the next 3-5 years well have seen a massive change in how games are delivered to us, as I said there will always be shops on the high street but will they just be a place you walk into if you don't have a credit card and get your game on a memory key and authenticate online later? thats not likely but one a many possibilities.

Anyway if game go under thats a fair few on the dole

kearneybobs

EA have even mentioned concern about a major European retailer an investor call earlier today.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-01-ea-concerned-at-financial-health-of-major-european-retail-partner

EA boss John Riccitiello has voiced concerns about the financial health of a "major European retail partner".
Speaking during an investor call earlier today, Riccitiello didn't name the company in question, but explained that the situation could affect the publisher's next set of financials.
"We are concerned with the financial condition of one of our major European retail partners, which could lead to both increased bad debt and lost sales," he said.
Chief financial officer Eric Brown also chimed in later during the call.
"We are focused on some isolated European retailer issues that have recently been announced. A negative outcome could adversely affect our Q4 results."
Could they be referring to GAME? As reported by Eurogamer earlier this week, multiple UK industry sources claim that the retailer has lost credit insurance with a number of agencies.

degrassinoel

I was thinking why couldnt the likes of game get licenses to sell digitally as well boxed in their shops. I guess there'd be a whole legal can of worms with different publishers and that?

i use steam and origin myself but if i had a choice of keeping people in irish jobs by buying online through their client/website i'd do that rather than blow my cash on steamsales.

In fairness though, Game's selection of pc titles is just poor at best. I still dont understand why they've pretty much ignored that entire market for years in favour of consoles.
Maybe i'm just gettin' old

OwaynOTT

Everything going online is bad for us all. It may be a tenner cheaper but in the long run its going to cause problems.
Look at 3. They offer an extra tenner off the phone if bought online but if you experience an issue it's straight to the store and expect them to help. They haven't got the comission from The sale and will lose out on more whilst they help. The more phones and games bought online mean the stores will close and any issues will have to be handled over the phone and that's a crappy situation to be honest. Being passed around different representatives from another country or even from here it's all the same.
Meanwhile all these retail stores shut down. Where do the staff to? On the live register. They spend less as a result. Which is bad.
Automation and electronic advancements aren't all great. It's just a way for big business profits to enlarge.

Next time your in tesco go to the person at the till and boycott the self service checkout.

calex71

degrassinoel wrote: »

I still dont understand why they've pretty much ignored that entire market for years in favour of consoles.
Maybe i'm just gettin' old

One word sums it up pretty much ..... GREED no money to be made on used PC games. and they can't sell used Steam titles.

Sounds harsh but that's the bottom dollar in a nutshell, they established their current business model around buy cheap used and sell used high.

If i could pay a bookie to take odds I'd be Xtravison, HMV, gamestop to fall in that order

OwaynOTT

Xtravision been on their last legs for a couple of years. Their games gone to crap can't get credit but people still rent movies. Not everyone has a decent Internet connection and a lot of the country won't see it for years.
I read something the other day that something like only 1 in 5 Irish porple have ever downloaded a movie. I'd believe it as in work I deal with a lot of people using the Internet and watching movies is rarely a priority.
So they(extra vision) will struggle on for a few years yet with rentals and used DVDs. They pay crap wages and name a tidy profit on food and use DVDs/games. 20-30% on food and 30/40% on preowned/previewed.

Helix

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Xtravision been on their last legs for a couple of years. Their games gone to crap can't get credit but people still rent movies. Not everyone has a decent Internet connection and a lot of the country won't see it for years.
I read something the other day that something like only 1 in 5 Irish porple have ever downloaded a movie. I'd believe it as in work I deal with a lot of people using the Internet and watching movies is rarely a priority.
So they(extra vision) will struggle on for a few years yet with rentals and used DVDs. They pay crap wages and name a tidy profit on food and use DVDs/games. 20-30% on food and 30/40% on preowned/previewed.

a tiny, tiny fraction of xtravisions income comes from rentals. the majority comes from sales

OwaynOTT

Helix wrote: »

a tiny, tiny fraction of xtravisions income comes from rentals. the majority comes from sales

Pre-owned games and pre rented DVDs sales. And food like I mentioned.

Oh and the ****ty add ons they make you buy with consoles.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

degrassinoel wrote: »

I was thinking why couldnt the likes of game get licenses to sell digitally as well boxed in their shops. I guess there'd be a whole legal can of worms with different publishers and that?

i use steam and origin myself but if i had a choice of keeping people in irish jobs by buying online through their client/website i'd do that rather than blow my cash on steamsales.

In fairness though, Game's selection of pc titles is just poor at best. I still dont understand why they've pretty much ignored that entire market for years in favour of consoles.
Maybe i'm just gettin' old

calex71 wrote: »

One word sums it up pretty much ..... GREED no money to be made on used PC games. and they can't sell used Steam titles.

Sounds harsh but that's the bottom dollar in a nutshell, they established their current business model around buy cheap used and sell used high.

If i could pay a bookie to take odds I'd be Xtravison, HMV, gamestop to fall in that order

Small counter to that - We don't stock PC games because we can't source them. The minimum order quantities are massive and combined with falling demand for physical games (because of the rise of services like Steam etc) means we simply can't stock them. Granted a company the size of Game should be able to buy enough and spread them around their stores but the point is that the publishers of certain games are quite happy for them not to be widely available in physical form because digital distribution makes them more - cuts out the middle man as such.

I've mentioned this numerous times before on boards but the pre owned market for console games is propping up the high street stores and keeping game prices for new copies artificially low. You can get the latest releases for €49.99 instead of €64.99 - €69.99 because of the pre owned market (69.99 being the RRP of top titles like Gears 3 for example) The lean towards pre owned was in part fueled by the high costs of new games - costs set by the publishers. There are times game stores including ourselves are loss leading or making a pittance on new games just to keep business / footfall going and are relying on pre owned sales to pay the bills. It's a ridiculous situation tbh.

It really isn't as clear cut as the "greedy retailer screws developers by making huge profit on pre owned games" scenario that a lot of people think it is.

ShadowHearth

I know I don't want anyone to losse their jobs and I do like brick and mortar shops, but 65-70eu for 1 game was a piss taking back then!

Ronan cork

i much prefer gamestop to be honest but losing an option is never a good thing. xtravision have pulled out of cork city center completely which is a sign of the changing times but is more about a business model that worked really well 10 years ago doesn't work anymore. i think this is true for game aswell but gamestop have changed their model to include used dvd's and cds, used hardware and even mobiles and i think that if they simplified their trade in system they would provide a great 'rental' service. e.g buy a new game for say €50 and bring it back within 7 days and get €45 store credit, within 14 days for €40 etc...xtravision were about €9 to rent a game for a week...I know it's more complicated than that but i'm not paid to work that out for them!! i also feel that these shops are overstaffed most of the time (usually 4+ staff in a tiny shop) and apart from the rates and lease wages are always the biggest expenditure...

Varik

Gamesnash.ie: Pat wrote: »

I've mentioned this numerous times before on boards but the pre owned market for console games is propping up the high street stores and keeping game prices for new copies artificially low. You can get the latest releases for €49.99 instead of €64.99 - €69.99 because of the pre owned market (69.99 being the RRP of top titles like Gears 3 for example) The lean towards pre owned was in part fueled by the high costs of new games - costs set by the publishers. There are times game stores including ourselves are loss leading or making a pittance on new games just to keep business / footfall going and are relying on pre owned sales to pay the bills. It's a ridiculous situation tbh.

It really isn't as clear cut as the "greedy retailer screws developers by making huge profit on pre owned games" scenario that a lot of people think it is.

Even if used games were to disappear these lower price points have been set.

phone games for €1 have already changed peoples views on higher priced portable games (3ds, vita), and while it's apples and oranges and personal taste as to the value of these games that won't apply when you see a game for €64.99 that as far as the majority are concern should be €49.99 still.

I think that shops that were cutting things close will still have to and possibly fail or raise prices and guarantee it.

There are few games that i need day one, online is fine for everything else and the less specialized shops can serve for the big games. This would leave me stuck if i really wanted a more niche game on release but many shops can't help with that now as things are.

xtravision here are far better than US versions, i listening to the engadget HD podcast and they listed out all the things blockbuster could have done and that xtravision were already doing.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Varik wrote: »

Even if used games were to disappear these lower price points have been set.

phone games for €1 have already changed peoples views on higher priced portable games (3ds, vita), and while it's apples and oranges and personal taste as to the value of these games that won't apply when you see a game for €64.99 that as far as the majority are concern should be €49.99 still.

I think that shops that were cutting things close will still have to and possibly fail or raise prices and guarantee it.

There are few games that i need day one, online is fine for everything else and the less specialized shops can serve for the big games. This would leave me stuck if i really wanted a more niche game on release but many shops can't help with that now as things are.

I believe you are correct - the perceived value of games has undoubtedly been lowered here in Ireland and the UK. It's compounded by the fact that most of the internet sites are based in Jersey / outside the EU and their prices do not include VAT.

If pre owned games were suddenly removed from the equation it is a 100% guaranteed outcome that high street stores here would close / or raise prices and drive more people online - ultimately closing the high street stores as you suggest.

As an example for you it costs us VAT inclusive €50.73 to buy in Fifa 12 at the moment. We're meant to be selling it for €59.99 - €64.99 here in Ireland but it can be picked up for €49.99 (it's cheaper for us to go down to another retailler and buy if off them!) - If we or anyone else priced it at €59.99 / €64.99 we'd be accused of ripping people off. Compare that to the perceived cheaper sites like sendit / the hut etc - current price for Fifa there is €46.99 but if you were to add 23% VAT onto that price you're bringing it to €57.81 quite close to the actual RRP that is set here in Ireland - which the vast majority of customers would say is a rip off price if it was offered to them here in store.

It's why I see the future being very bleak for high street games retailling here and my view point is echoed by the financial controllers underwriting credit insurance etc - hence the reports that started this OP but to be fair to Game they're not the only ones in this position - this is an industry wide issue.

Realistically what needs to happen IMO is for pre owned game sales to be stopped altogether and the publishers to come on board with lower cost prices to retaillers to compensate for it - and if at all possible lowered by enough to pass on some of this to the customer to bring prices lower at retail. This needs to happen to make it more attractive to customers who can no longer part fund their purchase by trading in. That keeps retaillers open on the high street which publishers and gamers do need.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I know I don't want anyone to losse their jobs and I do like brick and mortar shops, but 65-70eu for 1 game was a piss taking back then!

Back then though games were being sold at the price point the publishers suggested - and the cost price to the retaillers was even higher than my example above. There was little emphasis on pre owned sales and this was the pricing needed to make a profit / stay in business. It wasn't a piss take at all but this echoes Variks point - the market here won't accept the price points needed.

danthefan

This might sound stupid but I've never seen how selling used game is massively different from piracy. The retailer can actually profit from the game twice, while the second time the developer gets nothing. I know the original purchaser of the game no longer has a copy, being one difference. Maybe I haven't thought it through very well. On the other hand I've bought plenty of used games so I'm not complaining. And I buy very few games in shops anymore, I either buy from Steam (as about 75% of my games purchases are for the PC) or buy from an online retailer as they tend to be cheaper.

RobbingBandit

HMV in Henry Street don't have any Final Fantasy XIII-2 C.E OR L.E. I went into 4 gamestop stores today looking for the Crystal Edition, only 2 of the 4 stores got 1 each on Xbox none on PS3, each store got more than 1 Batman Collectors Edition, not a good sign for any gamers without Credit Cards.

cloud493

Its not out till tomorrow is it?( FF 13 -2)