Would you like to see Ireland leave the European Union?

TroikaBox

I have have thought about this quite alot, and I think Ireland would be better off without the European Union. The game is up. You can't buy back your own debt with taxpayer money for the next decade or two. Your kids will be paying for this many, many times over throughout their lives.

Do we have any real option here?:(

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

Sindri

If we leave we are ****ed.

Daithi 1

****ed if you do, ****ed if you dont.

My name is URL

Leaving the EU would be disastrous for Ireland. The EU isn't the problem anyway, using it's functions to continue propping up a lame currency and financial institutions is what's causing the problems.

Mike 1972

TroikaBox wrote: »

Your kids will be paying for this many, many times over throughout their lives.

No they wont.

Ive no kids

TroikaBox

Sindri wrote: »

If we leave we are ****ed.

At least we would have our independence:D Would be pretty bad in the short-medium term I will admit. The patriots of this country did not fight for independence of this island only to hand it over to faceless Politicians in Brussels. I despise this culture of eu wide regulations being forced on everybody. They want to micromanage every aspect of your life. Kinda like a boss from hell.

NinjaK

Sindri wrote: »

If we leave we are ****ed.

And what are we now??
If we were not in the EU we wouldn't have had the crash, well at least not as bad, with all the lending European banks gave to us.
We should cut our losses before we lose all sovereignty and start looking after our people.

Eric Cartman

if we left the EU wed be a bit fcked , but leaving the euro isnt a bad idea

dlofnep

To be honest at this point, yes. Democracy in the EU will continue to be eroded. It's happening with small steps, so it's hard to judge it at any one point - but in 50 years from now, Ireland's role in the EU will be as a subservient state - where the majority of it's policies will be controlled or influenced from Brussels. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a liar, or naive.

I say get out now, and work out trade agreements similar to Norway.

TroikaBox

dlofnep wrote: »

I say get out now, and work out trade agreements similar to Norway.

I can't understand how policies cannot be negotiated without the hand of the European Union deciding for us. Works for Switzerland and Norway quite well. We would still have our United Nations representation, which is arguably more important over the long term. I think Ireland should establish trade agreements with the Commonwealth too. Provided they keep out of political issues of the south.

Chuck Stone

There is no 'we'.

TroikaBox

Chuck Stone wrote: »

There is no 'we'.

The Democratic will of the people:D

The Waltzing Consumer

TroikaBox wrote: »

At least we would have our independence:D Would be pretty bad in the short-medium term I will admit. The patriots of this country did not fight for independence of this island only to hand it over to faceless Politicians in Brussels. I despise this culture of eu wide regulations being forced on everybody. They want to micromanage every aspect of your life. Kinda like a boss from hell.

Remember the days when we had bar-stool republicans talking about how they would fight for the "ra" and give out about the Brits, all the while, watching the British TV, shopping in their British shops and basically being the most hypocritical fools in the land??

Well, they have long since gone, thank God, only to be replaced by the paranoid Dana-esque bar-stool anti-European Union people :rolleyes:

Can you name some of thes horrible forced regulations laid down by the EU? Is it better safety in the workplace? Minimum standards for employees, better treatment, no discrimination? Is it road safety? The television without frontiers? The fact you can live, travel and work anywhere in the EU?

f**king bastards!!

I bet you take advantage of all the good things they have brought in, only to moan and whinge.

Chucky the tree

dlofnep wrote: »

To be honest at this point, yes. Democracy in the EU will continue to be eroded. It's happening with small steps, so it's hard to judge it at any one point - but in 50 years from now, Ireland's role in the EU will be as a subservient state - where the majority of it's policies will be controlled or influenced from Brussels. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a liar, or naive.

I say get out now, and work out trade agreements similar to Norway.

Excellent, hopefully that will mean Irish peoples voting in Fianna Fail in the future won't be so damaging to us again.

mike65

Ireland and Scotland can form a Celtic Union.

TroikaBox

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Can you name some of thes horrible forced regulations laid down by the EU? Is it better safety in the workplace? Minimum standards for employees, better treatment, no discrimination? Is it road safety? The television without frontiers? The fact you can live, travel and work anywhere in the EU?

The very notion that a commission of faceless unelected individuals can rule greater precedence over our own laws is an illustration of the fact they believe their "laws" are better than ours. What is the point in a sovereign country, if the bureaucrats can just overrule and piss all over our own Constitutionally derived laws? It smacks of silliness.

Not going to list a load of laws, there are too many to count. I would guess alot of these "laws" are passed through the motions without being read properly. Anybody with an ounce of brain would not pass laws forbidding children under 8 to blow up a balloon without adult supervision.

http://europrices.org/EU-blog/article_1_Simply-stupid-laws-in-EU.html

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

f**king bastards!!

This I can agree with. The programmer rules are INSANE. Software bugs can not be eradicated, and the environmental parameters that may affect usage of a software program are so varied, you can't predict failure 100%. Power outage? Time to fine these "programmers". These people really are dinosaurs.

The Waltzing Consumer

TroikaBox wrote: »

The very notion that a commission of faceless unelected individuals can rule greater precedence over our own laws is an illustration of the fact they believe their "laws" are better than ours. What is the point in a sovereign country, if the bureaucrats can just overrule and piss all over our own Constitutionally derived laws? It smacks of silliness.

Not going to list a load of laws, there are too many to count. I would guess alot of these "laws" are passed through the motions without being read properly. Anybody with an ounce of brain would not pass laws forbidding children under 8 to blow up a balloon without adult supervision.

So you think every idea written in the very early part of the 20th Century for our Constitution is as valid now as it was back then?

Ireland sometimes needs to be dragged kicking and screaming? You ever work before, I can guarantee you if you have, you have benefited from EU law. Do you think Irish employers will willing to give you all the benefits and protection you have without the EU? Not a chance

But hey, if you want to go fight for a pro-Catholic Church constitution which made homosexuality a monstrosity, locked up innocent women for zero reasons and tortured children for decades, I will respect that, at least we know where you stand.

Batsy

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Remember the days when we had bar-stool republicans talking about how they would fight for the "ra" and give out about the Brits, all the while, watching the British TV, shopping in their British shops and basically being the most hypocritical fools in the land??

Well, they have long since gone, thank God, only to be replaced by the paranoid Dana-esque bar-stool anti-European Union people :rolleyes:

Can you name some of thes horrible forced regulations laid down by the EU? Is it better safety in the workplace? Minimum standards for employees, better treatment, no discrimination? Is it road safety? The television without frontiers? The fact you can live, travel and work anywhere in the EU?

f**king bastards!!

I bet you take advantage of all the good things they have brought in, only to moan and whinge.

It amazes me how the Irish were very good at fighting British rule but, when it comes to the EU, are happy to just sit on their arses and do nothing whilst the EU craps on you.

Trevor451

No. The reasons so many firms set up in Ireland is because of our EU membership (common trade area, single currency) etc.

patwicklow

Lets get out and the sooner the better we can survive its built in.

ejmaztec

Mike 1972 wrote: »

No they wont.

If I do have some, they'll all be in Australia

fyp alternative

twinQuins

I eagerly await the idiotic comparisons to Norway and Switzerland...

Stinicker

I voted no but I would like Ireland to leave the EU and and remain a part of the EEA and EFTA like Norway giving us access to European markets without the regulation of interference from Brussels Germany.

Amirani

NinjaK wrote: »

And what are we now??
If we were not in the EU we wouldn't have had the crash, well at least not as bad, with all the lending European banks gave to us.
We should cut our losses before we lose all sovereignty and start looking after our people.

UK banks gave just as much lending as any other Eurozone country, it would've been just as bad, probably worse because we'd have an incredibly weakened currency.

Batsy

Trevor451 wrote: »

No. The reasons so many firms set up in Ireland is because of our EU membership (common trade area, single currency) etc.

Nope. Businesses have been attracted to Ireland because of your low corporation tax rate. Nothing to do with the EU.

I should point out, though, that the EU wants stricken countries like Ireland to INCREASE their corporation tax rate. So it's fair to argue that the Eu is actually trying to take away the incentive for foreign firms to go to Ireland.

TroikaBox

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

So you think every idea written in the very early part of the 20th Century for our Constitution is as valid now as it was back then?

Mostly, yes. There are exceptions, but these EU wide laws are eroding our own Constitution. Ireland has become a shadow of it's recent free state past.

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Ireland sometimes needs to be dragged kicking and screaming? You ever work before, I can guarantee you if you have, you have benefited from EU law. Do you think Irish employers will willing to give you all the benefits and protection you have without the EU? Not a chance

Why do we require the EU for these regulations though? Why not write and maintain our own regulations. What the hell is the LRC for? If I don't like working, I would leave. Private Enterprise should not be chained down by too many anti competitive laws and regulations.

Doc Ruby

I think we could do without the rafts of legislation being handed down from Europe and to be honest I'm a bit uncomfortable about where the whole thing is headed, but we need to stay in the free trade area and the euro isn't bad either. Even if we left the euro our currency would still be pegged to it so in or out doesn't make much odds.

Overall, keep the free trade, dump the rest, yes even including structural aid and grants.

TheZohanS

Batsy wrote: »

It amazes me how the Irish were very good at fighting British rule but, when it comes to the EU, are happy to just sit on their arses and do nothing whilst the EU craps on you.

To be fair the Irish were never good at fighting anything, it was a minority that fought against British rule and achieved so much. And those that did fight were ridiculed and given little support. It's the same today, there are a few vocal protesters that get knocked and ridiculed by the masses.

I wonder how history will judge the Irish people of today, I doubt it will be all that favourably.

ejmaztec

Ireland would be nuts to leave the EU, in the same way that it would be nuts for the UK to pull out.

One day they're going to have to write off all of the deficits, because they know full well countries like Ireland haven't got a snowball in hell's chance of clearing them otherwise.

Chucky the tree

Batsy wrote: »

Nope. Businesses have been attracted to Ireland because of your low corporation tax rate. Nothing to do with the EU.

I should point out, though, that the EU wants stricken countries like Ireland to INCREASE their corporation tax rate. So it's fair to argue that the Eu is actually trying to take away the incentive for foreign firms to go to Ireland.

The EU had a massive role to play. The free trade within the EU was alot more important than our low corporation tax.

TroikaBox

Fact is. You can say Ireland was a poor country during the free state era(before 73) but at least the Economy was stable. A moderately rich but very stable economy will always trump a very rich but extremely unstable economy. Look at where the EU has lead us too. A complete economic failure of catastrophic proportions. Slow and steady wins the race as they say.

Stability > Economic expansion

Gareth2011

Im not sure about the whole thing. I know we have come along way since joining the EU with regards to "everything". But I don't like the way merkozy is trying to literally take control of our little island. Now they want to do greece's budget for them so they can get it how they want it. I don't want to see that happen to Ireland or else there will be riots literally because the poor can't take anymore between the government, troika, germany, france. I think we prob would be better off out of it but id say its certain we would notice the difference.

Da Shins Kelly

We should leave the Euro anyway. I wouldn't mind leaving the EU completely, but I definitely think we should be distancing ourselves instead of trying to get in even further. I really don't like where the EU seems to be going. It's becoming more and more controlling, which doesn't sit well with me at all.

The Waltzing Consumer

TroikaBox wrote: »

Mostly, yes. There are exceptions, but these EU wide laws are eroding our own Constitution. Ireland has become a shadow of it's recent free state past.


Why do we require the EU for these regulations though? Why not write and maintain our own regulations. What the hell is the LRC for? If I don't like working, I would leave. Private Enterprise should not be chained down by too many anti competitive laws and regulations.

Free state? Who the hell calls Ireland the Free State anymore??

When Ireland joined the EU, EU law superseded Irish law, and guess what? It had modernised, educated and improved Ireland in many many areas. It has it's weaknesses of course, but does everything. You have obviously never studied or lived in Ireland pre-EU membership and I think you have not a clue.

Why do we need the EU for these regulations? Because that's their job, our Government was not bringing in these laws, we needed the EU to do that.

The LRC concentrates on industrial relations They are not a legislative body.

Anti-competitive laws? You do know the EU forced the Irish governments to be competitive, we had lots of monopolies before the EU, it was them who made it competitive.

You don't know much do you?

The Waltzing Consumer

TroikaBox wrote: »

Fact is. You can say Ireland was a poor country during the free state era(before 73) but at least the Economy was stable. A moderately rich but very stable economy will always trump a very rich but extremely unstable economy. Look at where the EU has lead us too. A complete economic failure of catastrophic proportions. Slow and steady wins the race as they say.

Stability > Economic expansion

Yes, pretty clear you are talking out your ass here now. Go back to history class, come back when you learn a few things.

Chucky the tree

TroikaBox wrote: »

Fact is. You can say Ireland was a poor country during the free state era(before 73) but at least the Economy was stable. A moderately rich but very stable economy will always trump a very rich but extremely unstable economy. Look at where the EU has lead us too. A complete economic failure of catastrophic proportions. Slow and steady wins the race as they say.

Stability > Economic expansion

This has to be a joke?

ejmaztec

TroikaBox wrote: »

Fact is. You can say Ireland was a poor country during the free state era(before 73) but at least the Economy was stable. A moderately rich but very stable economy will always trump a very rich but extremely unstable economy. Look at where the EU has lead us too. A complete economic failure of catastrophic proportions. Slow and steady wins the race as they say.

Stability > Economic expansion

As regards Ireland pre 1973, your opinion is more than laughable.

The Waltzing Consumer

Chucky the tree wrote: »

This has to be a joke?

It's not, and sorry if it offends people, but this is the standard of intelligence from groups like occupy dame street and Dana-esque anti EU people.

They are like our version of the Tea Party. Absolutely mad, hysterically stupid and constantly checking their tyres as they believe everyone is out to kill them.

Amirani

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Im not sure about the whole thing. I know we have come along way since joining the EU with regards to "everything". But I don't like the way merkozy is trying to literally take control of our little island. Now they want to do greece's budget for them so they can get it how they want it. I don't want to see that happen to Ireland or else there will be riots literally because the poor can't take anymore between the government, troika, germany, france. I think we prob would be better off out of it but id say its certain we would notice the difference.

You should literally only used the word literally when something literally is going to happen.

TroikaBox

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ireland would be nuts to leave the EU, in the same way that it would be nuts for the UK to pull out.

I would argue Britain would be ok without the Union. They are without a shadow of a doubt the most anti-EU country within the EU. Only Switzerland and Norway come to mind.

The arrogance of these people is shocking. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2087874/Martin-Schulz-new-European-Parliament-president-says-eurosceptics-mentally-weak.html

Amirani

TroikaBox wrote: »

I would argue Britain would be ok without the Union. They are without a shadow of a doubt the most anti-EU country within the EU. Only Switzerland and Norway come to mind off the top of my head. Lets not forget, most British Islands are ultimately the responsiblity of the Crown, but they are not governed by the European Union. And for good measure.

Why don't you argue it then. I reject your claim that the UK would be okay if it chose to leave the Eurozone.

Sindri

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Free state? Who the hell calls Ireland the Free State anymore??

You don't know much do you?

He said at least the economy was stable during the free state, even though we engaged in a Tariff War with Britain and our currency was pegged to the sterling.

ejmaztec

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

It's not, and sorry if it offends people, but this is the standard of intelligence from groups like occupy dame street and Dana-esque anti EU people.

They are like our version of the Tea Party. Absolutely mad, hysterically stupid and constantly checking their tyres as they believe everyone is out to kill them.

As long as they don't notice the pool of brake-fluid, we'll be okay.

Sindri

Ah lads he's only a misinformed troll. Stop feeding him.

Amirani

Batsy wrote: »

Nope. Businesses have been attracted to Ireland because of your low corporation tax rate. Nothing to do with the EU.

I should point out, though, that the EU wants stricken countries like Ireland to INCREASE their corporation tax rate. So it's fair to argue that the Eu is actually trying to take away the incentive for foreign firms to go to Ireland.

Ireland would have none of its multinationals without the EU. If corporation tax rates are the determining factor, why don't they locate in India, which has far lower rates then us. Ireland having the second lowest in the EU is a factor, but the important point is the access to the EU market.

TroikaBox

NiallSparky wrote: »

Why don't you argue it then. I reject your claim that the UK would be okay if it chose to leave the Eurozone.

That is ultimately the responsibility of their own Parliament. Will be interesting to see how the situation pans out. I hope the EU is eventually consigned to the dustbin. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5ivJVDejz-lFl-BcWuHt603cTwzfA?docId=N0183901327753870958A

ejmaztec

TroikaBox wrote: »

I would argue Britain would be ok without the Union. They are without a shadow of a doubt the most anti-EU country within the EU. Only Switzerland and Norway come to mind.

The arrogance of these people is shocking. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2087874/Martin-Schulz-new-European-Parliament-president-says-eurosceptics-mentally-weak.html

It doesn't take a genius to know that the Daily Mail is the the most anti-EU doom-mongering rag in the UK, to be taken with a pinch of salt at all times.

Even the UK can't survive on its own in this world.

TroikaBox

ejmaztec wrote: »

It doesn't take a genius to know that the Daily Mail is the the most anti-EU doom-mongering rag in the UK, to be taken with a pinch of salt at all times.

Even the UK can't survive on its own in this world.

As far as I know, the Daily Mail aren't calling euroskeptics "weak". Slate the source of the information, not the medium. I treat the Daily mail as a medium only. If you can't be bothered to refer to the original source, well more luck to you.

tonycascarino

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

We should leave the Euro anyway. I wouldn't mind leaving the EU completely, but I definitely think we should be distancing ourselves instead of trying to get in even further. I really don't like where the EU seems to be going. It's becoming more and more controlling, which doesn't sit well with me at all.

Exactly my opinion on the matter:)

oppenheimer1

Stinicker wrote: »

I voted no but I would like Ireland to leave the EU and and remain a part of the EEA and EFTA like Norway giving us access to European markets without the regulation of interference from Brussels Germany.

So we can sit by the fax machine waiting to be told what directives we have to adopt with no input into them in order to stay in said market?

TroikaBox

Sindri wrote: »

He said at least the economy was stable during the free state, even though we engaged in a Tariff War with Britain and our currency was pegged to the sterling.

The EU would never allow Protectionism without their own approval. The country was poorer. But it was also more fiscally stable. You don't need to be needlessly rich to have a stable banking situation. EU is similar to a pyramid scheme. Those at the top will always benefit the most.