Teens and Dating- help!!!

The Princess Bride

My 15 year old has a boyfriend- I haven't met him as he's from a different town.They met at an underage disco and he asked her out by text week later.They've been to the cinema together & nothing since as both have JC mocks over next month.She's asked if they can get together post exams,and that's why I'm posting.

Now I feel society has changed so much since I was a teen- I have a great relationship with all my children and they regularly talk/tell about everything and anything.

I suppose the big dilemma is how to supervise dates,(without being neurotic!!)and when to say no.
She is 'a rock of sense',a straight A student who is very popular with everyone,generous,kind etc...I adore her and am so proud to be her mom.

But what if he invites her to his?When do you,as a parent ask/wonder what's too far?
A friend gave her 15yr old permission to go to boyfriend's house,(he said "you can trust me" )and they had sex.....consentual,yes,but underage and girl regretted it since etc....

So I'm wondering ,how do you parents decide.

Lola92

I was your daughter in this situation about 5 years ago! :P

My advice - invite him to your house! Let your daughter choose a movie to rent and maybe lunch also? That way you will get an idea of his character and get to meet him in person to make your own judgement. Make it known to your daughter that he is welcome to come over and visit rather than possibly being in his or else out roaming the streets as my father would say! :pac:

Also although it may seem a little premature I would revisit the safe sex topic with your daughter, maybe ask her if she sees them getting serious in that department in the future. Just to keep the paths of discussion open and let her know she could come to you if she was considering it. It probably isn't what you want to hear but you are better off to know if that is the case and can take precautions in case!

cynder

Sound advice from Lola.

I would want to meet the boy too and before she went on any date with him. I would also invite the boy over for family dinners now and then so my husband can have a little chat with him


I would allow her on cinema dates, And lunch dates unsupervised. His house when his parents are in. Our house when we are in for the first 6 months anyway. It's all well n good but I'm not in the situation yet so this is going on how I think I would react.

The Princess Bride

Thanks ladies.....funnily enough,its not the safe sex thats an issue.
My attitude has always been -come to me anytime/whenever/before and we'll discuss contraception -I'd rather they have safe sex at 15 than unsafe sex at any age..... (not irresponsible,a fact of life and living today)

We did the "you bring him to our house" with our other daughter and it worked well.Some of their friends have boyfriends and bring them to their bedrooms to watch tv.I wouldn't allow that in a fit,asking for trouble,surely.
This dating scenario is a big thing when it seems like only yesterday she was my baby girl.

My older girl met him,and she found him nice,plus the date to cinema involved other friends too.His parents are seperated and it seems like he has a close bond with his mother,which is a major plus with me.....
oh for the days when we didn't date until we left home....ha!
have a nice Sunday and thanks!

GarIT

There is absolutely no point at all in trying to keep them appart. There a lot more likely to do more when they are out of you house than when they are in it. They won't do anything too serious in her room with you in the house anyway. Kids these days don't need a room or a house to do anything anymore. You can even get a lot done even in a cinema, youd be surprised how things happen now. I don't want to say too much because my mammy is on here but just trust her to do what she thinks is right, if you try to police her she will want to do it even more. If anything happens at least they are inside and safer, if it would happen inside it would happen anyway.

Abi

Lola92 wrote: »

I was your daughter in this situation about 5 years ago! :P

My advice - invite him to your house! Let your daughter choose a movie to rent and maybe lunch also? That way you will get an idea of his character and get to meet him in person to make your own judgement. Make it known to your daughter that he is welcome to come over and visit rather than possibly being in his or else out roaming the streets as my father would say! :pac:

Also although it may seem a little premature I would revisit the safe sex topic with your daughter, maybe ask her if she sees them getting serious in that department in the future. Just to keep the paths of discussion open and let her know she could come to you if she was considering it. It probably isn't what you want to hear but you are better off to know if that is the case and can take precautions in case!

This is fantastic advice Lola, and I'm sure it would work so long as the relationship between parents and child aren't overly strict.

GarIT wrote: »

There is absolutely no point at all in trying to keep them appart. There a lot more likely to do more when they are out of you house than when they are in it. They won't do anything too serious in her room with you in the house anyway. Kids these days don't need a room or a house to do anything anymore. You can even get a lot done even in a cinema, youd be surprised how things happen now. I don't want to say too much because my mammy is on here but just trust her to do what she thinks is right, if you try to police her she will want to do it even more. If anything happens at least they are inside and safer, if it would happen inside it would happen anyway.

My parents were, or moreso my mother, was very strict on me. There was no such thing as bringing friends let alone boyfriends into our family home, and when I met my ex at 16 there was no hope of her winning me over. She made my arsehole ex seem like a better option, and I ended up moving out when I was 17 years old. To be more precise, she threw me out because I was with him and acting erratically, not coming home when I should etc. I did this because her efforts to protect me smothered me, and don't ask most teenagers to understand you're only trying to protect them. They have an undeveloped view of the world, and it's all about them, for the most part.

Tell her to invite him over, but at the same time ask her to be honest with you about their relationship, and ask her to talk to you about when she feels like her relationship might be nearing the point of sex. I had sex underage, but I still went to my family doctor and asked for the pill. This had nothing to do with my mother, because the idea of me having sex would have meant she'd have locked me in my room for eternity. The moral of the story being, I'd have loved to be able to talk to her, but the love back was a choke hold, and I just couldn't talk to her.

Best of luck on this one, it's a tough time for all, but she sounds like a very smart girl. Gentle guidance from you will see her through this stage.

KittyeeTrix

The moral of the story being, I'd have loved to be able to talk to her, but the love back was a choke hold, and I just couldn't talk to her.

You phrased this very well Abi.....

This is the type of thing I do not want occuring with my daughter. We have very open and honest chats already and she is only 12. We watch 16 and pregnant as well as Teen Mom every week and in doing so opportunities arise for discussion on the topic of sex.

She knows I will not judge or condemn her whatever the age is that she will begin to experiment as I've told her so. I've told her that I want to make sure she is emotionally/psychologically protected and for that reason I would prefer that she be a minimum of 16 before she becomes serious with any boys, however, she knows that my priority is to keep her physically safe and that she may come to me before that age to talk and organise protection if the case arises.

There will be no recriminations from her coming and talking to me. I will tell her my concerns if I have any but will ultimately follow her wishes....(within moral/legal reasons of course:D)

She's a smart, well developed girl and I'm hoping that the confidence she has about herself at this young age will allow her to be able to wait till she is more emotionally mature before embarking down a sexual experience path:)

stargazer 68

Op sound advice from everyone on here! My daughter is 19 and at University and I still worry about her boyfriends etc!! My son is 13 and says he's not interested in girls yet but ya never know!

cynder

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

This is the type of thing I do not want occuring with my daughter. We have very open and honest chats already and she is only 12. We watch 16 and pregnant as well as Teen Mom every week and in doing so opportunities arise for discussion on the topic of sex.

I dont watch it but my lady does (now and then) and she asked me the one day if she got pregnant at 16, what would i do? would i be mad?

I told her I would take care of the baby, if that's what she wanted. Because she would need to finish school and go to college, get a good job so she could look after the little one herself. I said i wouldn't be mad but disapointed. I dont want to encourage her to go out and get pregnant at 16! But if it does happen i will be there to support her.

She has done life plans for school and all state she is having one child in her late 20s as she wants to be a forensic detective with the FBI.

I think if i saw she was approaching that stage i would take her down the the gps and get her sorted with contraception. Even if she isn't at that stage at 15/16, i would talk to her about starting the pill.

The Princess Bride

I have never said I'd try to keep them apart- why would I do that?

Her older sister was seeing a guy last year,who was nice but a bit of a twat.
I sat back and waited and sure enough,she realised that he wasn't for her and broke it off and gets embarrassed about it now,as she feels stupid for having dated him.....but we all have to make mistakes and learn from them.
I believe if I "forbid" them being together,they'd become closer anyways.

Am surprised some of you are so keen to go down the "pill" route.
I'm talking a 15 year old girl,and introducing hormones into a hormonal rollercoaster that is a teenager- the nurse in me has seen too many horror stories,and I wouldn't touch the pill myself,if you paid me and most of my nursing pals are the same- my opinion only.
Some of her friends are on it (14-15) and she thinks that's too young......have a bumper box of condoms,but sex isn't on the agenda at the moment, we've had the chat again.

Abi,it's sad that you couldn't talk to your mother,I'd be devastated if they felt they couldn't come to me about anything,but then teenagers sometimes want to do their own thing,regardless.

I am very very close to my girls,(only 42 myself and feel younger!!!)and we talk about everything.Their friends love coming over here as I'm the cool mom(yes,I have my rules too)- I would be more concerned for their younger brother down the line,as boys are more easily led astray-but that's for a thread in a few years.:eek:

Thanks folks,great to have this forum at last.

He's just asked her to go to The Hunt Ball with him-fierce posh....anyone got a loan of a size 6-8 long dress,please????

cynder

msthe80s wrote: »

Am surprised some of you are so keen to go down the "pill" route.
I'm talking a 15 year old girl,and introducing hormones into a hormonal rollercoaster that is a teenager- the nurse in me has seen too many horror stories,and I wouldn't touch the pill myself,if you paid me and most of my nursing pals are the same- my opinion only.
Some of her friends are on it (14-15) and she thinks that's too young......have a bumper box of condoms,but sex isn't on the agenda at the moment, we've had the chat again.



Thanks folks,great to have this forum at last.

I put myself on the pill at 16. i went to the gp said i wanted to go on the pill, it agreed with me so i had no trouble. Stopped taking it at 18 as i broke up with my guy and it was expensive.

There will come a time that when 2 teens are very much attracted to eachother that one thing leads to another and a condom is the last thing on their mind, in the heat of the moment they can get carried away even if they have best intentions not to have sex. (hence my now 12 year old daughter (got back together sex) and im 31) I know the pill doesnt protect against std's (hoping her first will be a virgin). But if that scenario did arrive at least there wouldn't be a baby 9 months later. It also helps regulate periods and helps with acne.

With my lady being diabetic there are added complications but under proper medical supervision she should be ok.

Daisy M

The pill would be a last resort in my opinion. I was on it from 17 to 21 and it wasnt until I came off that I realised how badly it affected me, I was too young to know the difference and be able to realise what I was feeling wasnt normal.

I can never ever understand when parents are urged to get their daughter on the pill. While a teenage pregnancy wouldnt be ideal there are far worse things that can happen to teenagers/adults who dont practice safe sex, stds, hiv,aids and infertility would be much worse than a teenage pregnancy.
Parents need to make their teens aware of all the risks and how best to avoid them.

up for anything

msthe80s wrote: »

He's just asked her to go to The Hunt Ball with him-fierce posh....anyone got a loan of a size 6-8 long dress,please????

Most hunt balls nowadays aren't that posh. They're for 15-16 year olds who are too old for the youth discos and too young for regular night clubs. As for a long dress... :D She'll take you looking at dresses that you mistake for tops. :pac:

The Princess Bride

up for anything wrote: »

Most hunt balls nowadays aren't that posh. They're for 15-16 year olds who are too old for the youth discos and too young for regular night clubs. As for a long dress... :D She'll take you looking at dresses that you mistake for tops. :pac:

I know- but she said a long dress, ah sure they're innocence(me or her...I don't know which;))

cynder

QUOTE :I can never ever understand when parents are urged to get their daughter on the pill. While a teenage pregnancy wouldnt be ideal there are far worse things that can happen to teenagers/adults who dont practice safe sex, stds, hiv,aids and infertility would be much worse than a teenage pregnancy.
Parents need to make their teens aware of all the risks and how best to avoid them.

I think thats because where teens and common sense come in, teens lack common sense. Because the medical profession are not naive they know that teens will succumb to passion before common sense and need a back up plan. Not all teens will tell their parents they are in a sexual relationship and for those parents who know there will be situations where no one has a condom or cant get hold of one and some are not going to use common sense they get swept away with passion.

I would also assume a lot of teens dont tell their parents they are in a sexual relationship, so the medial advice is put them on the pill just in case a back up plan in case all else fails. I would also assume that some parents dont even talk to their kids about sex/stds/pregnancy and so on.



The only way around that would be to have a supply of condoms in the house or put one in your daughters purse or sons wallet, for when a situation would occur.



You also have the issue of burst condoms.



I totally agree there are worst things then getting pregnant, primary concern would be HIV, AIDS, Hepatitis C, syphilis chlamydia, and so on. How ever much you can ingrain USE PROTECTION you never know if they will or wont. I think if your teen said they did have unprotected sex (which i dont think they would, they would probably say the condom burst) you would rush them dont to gp to get tested for and sti/std and give them the morning after pill (if it was a female).





When my daughter has a serious boyfriend i will talk to her about both of them getting checked for stds before they start an unprotected relationship. Its the only way for them both to be safe. I cant force them to do it, it will be up to themselves.

Fea.

Firstly I have to say, this place is absolutely great for taking your mind off other things, thank you, I'm loving it !!!

But more importantly, I'm sure most are aware that all kids are different and we have to treat each one individually as we get to this teenage dating and sex stage. (sorry for stating the obvious ) but case in point...

I have two boys, eldest a rock of sense, wouldn't worry about him for a second, he's actually got more sense than me. Second boy, a different kettle of fish, have to watch him like a hawk. He's the charmer, women literally throw themselves at him. When my eldest got really serious with his first gf, I have him a condom and told him, 'please, be safe and think first'. his reply 'good parenting skills mum'. Second son, same situation, I gave him a condom and told him 'if ever he's with a girl and things start to get too hot and heavy, right at that moment, my face would pop into his mind.' My eldest son has told me that I've probably scarred him for life...

My two girls are younger and are thankfully still at the stage 'boys? ewwww'.
Teenagers are harder but so much more enjoyable than toddler tantrums and teething
enjoy them xxx

BengaLover

I think 15 is too young to have a boyfriend and go out on dates (PERSONALLY) - but I do also think that the having of a boyfried can seem more important to teens than the actual relationship itself..Kind of a status symbol if you will, for want of a better way to express it, they think its something they need and if their peers are in relationships then they dont want to miss out..Just found out my soon to be 17yr old is on the pill, and when I enquired gently if she really needed or should be having sex at 16 she told me to get with it, that everyone was on the pill/having sex..
Times sure have changed and the absolute fact is that teens ARE having sex earlier and earlier, so its up to the parents to make sure that they are fully informed in every way possible. I also have a 14yr old and am hoping with all my heart she doesnt develop any relationships too young.

I wonder if you asked 10 people the question: 'Was the first person you had sex with the right person?', how many would say NO..

The Princess Bride

BengaLover wrote: »

.........I do also think that the having of a boyfriend can seem more important to teens than the actual relationship itself..Kind of a status symbol if you will,


Just found out my soon to be 17yr old is on the pill, and when I enquired gently if she really needed or should be having sex at 16 she told me to get with it, that everyone was on the pill/having sex..
Times sure have changed and the absolute fact is that teens ARE having sex earlier and earlier, so its up to the parents to make sure that they are fully informed in every way possible.

I agree with so much of what you've said.
When I had mine in the late '90s,if anyone told me I'd be discussing contraception with them at 14/15/16- I'd have laughed.

Don't wish to harp on again about pill- but my oldest girl's friend is on it since 2nd year,and was unwell recently and my daughter was telling her about increased risks of pregnancy during gastro/taking antibiotics etc....and this girl knew- nothing- about this.That's scary.

Indeed,I've read posts from females in other threads here, and it astounds me that these women take this tab every day,but do not actually know what it does/how it does it/what not to do.

And that is why I feel strongly about these teens- they want to grow up so so quickly,but still need their parents to parent -even if the children don't realise it.

C.D.

I'm in my mid-twenties now, but had a string of short relationships in my teens. My mother was always very, very strict on friends (let alone girlfriends coming back to the house). As a result, she never met, and didn't know what they or my friends were like- she just hated them all because any time spent with them was time not spent studying.

When I look back at my teens, I am horrified at the places I made out/had sex with girls- not because I'm ashamed, but more so they were very, very dodgy places. And you do hear stories of very unpleasant things happening to couples in secluded locations. Teenagers are going to have sex. End of. Better they do it in a safe environment and better that you can be a part of their relationships and advise, console and share in their ups and downs instead of becoming a totalitarian outsider.

ToxicPaddy

A little off topic I know but from reading some of the responses it amazes me the openness between parents and their kids these days. Its fantastic that a parent can talk to their children about anything.. kudos to all the parents in here as that's the way it should always be.

When I was a teenager, I was questioned about everything and trusted with nothing and I was a quiet reserved one. Didn't drink or smoke, was too interested in sports to even look at a girl twice until I was at least 16 or 17 and even then didn't have the confidence to do much about it even if i did get lucky once or twice

My youngest sibling is 13 years younger than me and I could see how different my parents treated her, gave her space, trusted her but at the same time kept an eye on things. Now granted she had 3 older siblings also looking out for her, giving her advice, having those little chats too but she didn't do anything terribly stupid, is extremely intelligent, outgoing and has a large circle of great friends.

Back on topic..

I don't have kids, but most off my friends do and I have lots if young mid teen cousins etc so I see how they react to different things, but one thing is for certain, if you tell them not to do something or try and stop them doing it, they will everything in their power to do it..

up for anything

Make your daughter's boyfriend's mother your ally. Insist that if she is going to his place that you ring his mother to ok it and make sure that she will be around while they are together there and the same for when he comes to your house. My daughter is older but his mother and I pick up the phone to each other. It's also good to find out her take on meeting up during the week when there is homework to be done etc and length of dates at the weekend.

The Princess Bride

up for anything wrote: »

Make your daughter's boyfriend's mother your ally. Insist that if she is going to his place that you ring his mother to ok it and make sure that she will be around while they are together there and the same for when he comes to your house. My daughter is older but his mother and I pick up the phone to each other. It's also good to find out her take on meeting up during the week when there is homework to be done etc and length of dates at the weekend.

I agree completely with this advice.

Luckily,my daughter is 100% committed to study,school and has the next 3 years already planned for herself.
Meeting up during the week would never be an issue with either because of school,sport and geography(suddenly there's an advantage to living in the middle of nowhere:D)- but I see your point, and thanks.

Interestingly- we've always been very close,but have become closer this past while- she can't believe how cool(:eek:) I am .
So much easier to be on their side( but in charge!) than fighting all of the time.

Sut mae!

Post deleted
Trolling

Lola92

Sut mae! wrote: »

I was a 15 year old lad once so I know this - there is only ONE REASON why a 15 year old lad would have any interest in hanging around a girl.

Really? That is a tad OTT a statement to make don't you think?

I'm never having any kids, but hypothetically, I would absolutely forbid it outright. No boys.
Someone mentioned the lad going into the house and into the bedroom. WTF? Absolutely not. I would be raging furious if this were to happen.

Did you think of the rebellion and what that behaviour might lead to? I would be of the opinion it is better to go along with it and stay informed, closely monitoring etc. At least then you know your own child would be more likely to share and confide in you rather that secrets and sneaking around!

Too young for the pill. No way in hell.

If she were to become pregnant I would be furious also and i'd have the toerag brought up for statutory rape.

no way. no way.

Do you not think that maybe it is better safe than sorry and better to have your child protected in a sexual relation than putting a blanket ban on contraception?

My daughter is only a toddler but I plan on discussing sex etc. with her from an early age. I want her to feel that she can talk with me and approach me with any issues and concerns she has about boys/relationships as she gets older.

KittyeeTrix

Any updates OP?? Did you meet with him yet?

The Princess Bride

OP here- thanks to everyone for your input.

Yes- nice lad, they like each other and I'm smiling...but from very close by!
They went to the dance and had a great time.( They looked well together.)
Went to cinema for Valentine's Day and gave each other presents(ah!)

She is getting results from mocks today -all excellent- he is studying this week and she has already told him that if he texts,she won't reply as his studies are more important.
(Rock of sense my daughter- should really clone her!:D)

Maeki

You need to talk to your teen about her behavior and how risky it is for her to get pregnant. I mean, common its not like they are praying when they are alone or somewhere private right? Its okay to have a boyfriend just make sure that they won't do extra curricular activities, if you know what I mean. Tell her about the hardship of being a young mother, how its gonna eat her time, energy and money and won't be able to enjoy "the single life" after school. And most of all tell her the high risk of getting diseases such as hiv, std, hepa and even death due to prolonged labor due to her small pelvis. If this kind of talk won't stop her, I don't know what can. :rolleyes:

Good Luck mommy.

denballs

msthe80s wrote: »

My 15 year old has a boyfriend- I haven't met him as he's from a different town.They met at an underage disco and he asked her out by text week later.They've been to the cinema together & nothing since as both have JC mocks over next month.She's asked if they can get together post exams,and that's why I'm posting.

Now I feel society has changed so much since I was a teen- I have a great relationship with all my children and they regularly talk/tell about everything and anything.

I suppose the big dilemma is how to supervise dates,(without being neurotic!!)and when to say no.
She is 'a rock of sense',a straight A student who is very popular with everyone,generous,kind etc...I adore her and am so proud to be her mom.

But what if he invites her to his?When do you,as a parent ask/wonder what's too far?
A friend gave her 15yr old permission to go to boyfriend's house,(he said "you can trust me" )and they had sex.....consentual,yes,but underage and girl regretted it since etc....

So I'm wondering ,how do you parents decide.

OK..IM Gonna be honest cause lying to you is,nt gonna help.......if they met at the disco.....the minimum that happend was they kissed most of the night....now i stress that thats the minimum.

I must admit its weird him inviting her to cinema and not seeing her much........hmm..

15 year old virgins wether male or female are rare these days to be perfectly honest.....it really comes down to....is sh and is he good looking and confident...if they both are...they,ll most likely have sex within a month......if they are,nt good looking then the guys probably new to this stuff and will go slow at first.

How her friends act will also decide wether she will want to...if most of them have....she will want to...if most of them hav,nt she will want to wait.

Now heres my opinion.......Give her condoms and tell her that you dont think she should but if she gets pregnant you,ll kill her...lol:D

The Princess Bride

denballs wrote: »

OK..IM Gonna be honest cause lying to you is,nt gonna help.......if they met at the disco.....the minimum that happend was they kissed most of the night....now i stress that thats the minimum.

I must admit its weird him inviting her to cinema and not seeing her much........hmm..

15 year old virgins wether male or female are rare these days to be perfectly honest.....it really comes down to....is sh and is he good looking and confident...if they both are...they,ll most likely have sex within a month......if they are,nt good looking then the guys probably new to this stuff and will go slow at first.

Now heres my opinion.......Give her condoms and tell her that you dont think she should but if she gets pregnant you,ll kill her...lol:D

Thanks for the advice- I think.
Amazingly I've been 15 myself....for a full year too...and I went to discos......had boyfriends.....and more!;)
I talk openly with my children- why wouldn't I?

She hasn't seen him since Valentine's as he's been studying-and he lives 2 towns away.They don't drive:rolleyes: we live in the sticks and the public transport service is......oh,there isn't one.
Both good looking- so what- but hey,you don't marry all you court!

My attitude has always been I'd rather they have protected sex at 15(even though I wouldn't be encouraging it) that unprotected at 17+...believe me, I've seen too many teen pregnancies to want it for my girls.

denballs

msthe80s wrote: »

Thanks for the advice- I think.
Amazingly I've been 15 myself....for a full year too...and I went to discos......had boyfriends.....and more!;)
I talk openly with my children- why wouldn't I?

She hasn't seen him since Valentine's as he's been studying-and he lives 2 towns away.They don't drive:rolleyes: we live in the sticks and the public transport service is......oh,there isn't one.
Both good looking- so what- but hey,you don't marry all you court!

My attitude has always been I'd rather they have protected sex at 15(even though I wouldn't be encouraging it) that unprotected at 17+...believe me, I've seen too many teen pregnancies to want it for my girls.

Oh wait you guys liv somewhere...besides Dublin...out there in the wasteland ...A.K.A farmville......well thats different.....every place has different culture....I was talking Dublin behaviour.....I honestly have no idea what you guys do out there....

STAR2011

I hope you don't mind but I am going to hikack the thread and look for a bit of advice! I have a 16year old boy who is in his first "real" relationship and is head over heels in love!

Now she is a lovely girl but she comes with some baggage. First, if you ask her what do you want to do when you finish school - she will say nothing, my husband will keep me!!!!! (I hate this attitude) And her family are very pushy, drop her to the house and stay for 4 hours, inviting him to family events, refering to him as a Son-in- law, serioulsy expensive xmas/birthday presents (from her mother, grandparents and her aunt) and its like they are delighted she is in such a serious relationship where as I am not! I think they are too young.

I am trying to encourage him to keep up contact with his male friends, asking him about them and saying we haven't seen them in a while, bring them over etc etc but this is not proving easy, he is only interested in spending his free time with his girlfriend!

So I suppose what I am asking is - how to discourage it without him knowing thats what I am doing or should I leave it to run its course and hope he sees sense and also how to deal with her pushy family - who seem to think we are all one big happy family now!