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Septic tank charges

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    #182
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Who is responsible for all the sewage pipes that flow straight into rivers, harbours and lakes all over the country?

    Maybe they should sort that out first?


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    #183
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Who is responsible for all the sewage pipes that flow straight into rivers, harbours and lakes all over the country?

    Maybe they should sort that out first?
    If there is untreated sewage being pumped into any water bodies then of course it should be addressed, but I imagine your reason for wishing it to be addressed before septic tanks has little to do with the environmental damage it may be doing and more to do with the septic tank inspection regime costing you money?


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    #184
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Who is responsible for all the sewage pipes that flow straight into rivers, harbours and lakes all over the country?

    Maybe they should sort that out first?

    Or...as well?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #185
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Complete sop to the rural element today. A farcical registration fee of €5 that won't even cover the administration of the fee, never mind the inspections, and now talk of grants to fix tanks that are not up to scratch.


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    #186
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Complete sop to the rural element today. A farcical registration fee of €5 that won't even cover the administration of the fee, never mind the inspections, and now talk of grants to fix tanks that are not up to scratch.

    Why shouldn't the state assist rural dwellers? The state has spent billions of £/€'s over the last number of decades implementing public sewage schemes. Those people who live in urban areas have gained proportionality more from this investment by the state, which was funded by taxes collected by both the urban and rural dweller.

    The rural dweller has received no benefit as a result of massive investment in public sewage schemes even though they have paid to fund the implementation for such schemes and continue to pay for their upkeep. Now the state is implementing regulations which will inevitably require rural dwellers to spend thousands of euro on upgrading their own septic tank systems in order to ensure they comply with regulations.

    Let the state step in and fund a retrofit scheme if restoration work is required - let the rural dweller be granted aid in the same manner that the urban dweller has received aid through the implementation of public sewage schemes.


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    #187
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Why shouldn't the state assist rural dwellers?
    No problem with those who have a genuine reason (farmers) to live there. Not keen on subsidising people who made a lifestyle choice, be it rural schools with 6 kids per teacher, or septic tanks. If you can't afford to pay for it yourself you shouldn't have it.

    The local authorities should have refused planning permission on properties in locations with no services. Then we wouldn't be having this conversion.


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    #188
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    n97 mini wrote: »
    No problem with those who have a genuine reason (farmers) to live there. Not keen on subsidising people who made a lifestyle choice, be it rural schools with 6 kids per teacher, or septic tanks. If you can't afford to pay for it yourself you shouldn't have it.

    You would swear everyone with a septic tank lives some sort of desolate life up the mountains going by some of the reactions on Boards.ie

    I live within a three minute walking distance of my town centre, yet I still have a septic tank as the "urban" sewage scheme stops just before my house. Over 400,000 householders in Ireland have a septic tank - they don't all live on the fringes of the Dingle Peninsula.


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    #189
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    I live within a three minute walking distance of my town centre, yet I still have a septic tank as the "urban" sewage scheme stops just before my house.
    n97 mini wrote:
    The local authorities should have refused planning permission on properties in locations with no services. Then we wouldn't be having this conversion.

    Seems especially true in your case.


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    #190
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Seems especially true in your case.

    Sure the state might as well force all 400,000 (over 30% of all households in Ireland) into Dublin city or the likes. :rolleyes:

    Its also quite laughable to suggest that everyone who lives outside the reach of a public sewage scheme does so as a lifestyle choice - and I think it clearly highlights the farcical nature of your entire argument.


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    #191
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Complete sop to the rural element today. A farcical registration fee of €5 that won't even cover the administration of the fee, never mind the inspections, and now talk of grants to fix tanks that are not up to scratch.

    But this is not about the cost.. This is about protecting the environment... thats what rural folks have been told page after page here..

    So whats the issue if it only costs a fiver? If the costs are kept to an absolute minimum then more people will sign up, and more potential issues will be solved..

    Win Win ... No?


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    #192
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    bothyhead wrote: »
    We are on a group tank, with 9 houses feeding into it. Who is responsible for registering it - A spokes person for the 9 houses? (no one would be that foolish), the 9 as a whole?, the farmer's land where it resides? (it's in a field behind the houses).

    Who is currently responsible for the maintenance of it? If you don't know that, then it's possibly not being maintained so it's a good thing there's a national inspection scheme being put in place.


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    #193
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    n97 mini wrote: »
    No problem with those who have a genuine reason (farmers) to live there. Not keen on subsidising people who made a lifestyle choice, be it rural schools with 6 kids per teacher, or septic tanks. If you can't afford to pay for it yourself you shouldn't have it.

    The local authorities should have refused planning permission on properties in locations with no services. Then we wouldn't be having this conversion.

    Posted from my Nokia97 mini on the Luas.


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    #194
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Welease wrote: »
    So whats the issue if it only costs a fiver?
    Who pays the rest?


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    #195
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Who pays the rest?

    The collective taxpayer - in the same manner that the collective taxpayer paid for public sewage systems the length and breadth of Ireland.


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    #196
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Something which I'm not sure has been discussed is the fact that you will require planning permission if you are required to upgrade your waste water treatment system.

    Have they confirmed for example a system designed and constructed in accordance with SR6:1991 will need to be updated to current standards. That would seem unfair and would open up a can of worms wih regards to other building standards.


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    #197
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Who pays the rest?

    The taxpayer...

    We don't run a consumption based tax system. The taxpayer funded our public sewerage systems, I can't think of any reason why any unconnected system which was implemented with the correct planning permissions and under the correct regulations should be any different..

    But again, this is not about the cost is it?.. It's about implementing an EU directive aimed at protecting our environment. I'm sure all those who whole heartedly supported it's implementation based on the environmental impact would have no issue with ensuring it's adequately funded from the public purse.. after all.. it effects us all doesnt it not just the tank owner...

    Or maybe the smell of s**t around here.. wasn't a leaking septic tank .. was it? ;)

    (Joking aside .. I have no objection to the inspections or charges.. if the charges or reasonable.. which given our waste in the PS/Need for revenue they are unlikely to be.. but I do object to only spectic tanks being the target when household sewerage systems that leak will go unchecked, and that some people will potentially be hit with large bills to retrofit systems that are fine, but no longer meet newer regulations).


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    #198
    Cicero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Something which I'm not sure has been discussed is the fact that you will require planning permission if you are required to upgrade your waste water treatment system.
    s.

    ....from personal experience....is where you will need extra money- a DEPOSIT of EUR7000 to hand over to the Council, once the planning permission is approved..for a job worth only 2-3 K..I haven't heard anyone complain yet about this required deposit but it's going to cause mahem....:mad:


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    #199
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    Welease wrote: »
    The taxpayer...



    (Joking aside .. I have no objection to the inspections or charges.. if the charges or reasonable.. which given our waste in the PS/Need for revenue they are unlikely to be.. but I do object to only spectic tanks being the target when household sewerage systems that leak will go unchecked, and that some people will potentially be hit with large bills to retrofit systems that are fine, but no longer meet newer regulations).

    It isn't just septic tanks - all domestic waste disposal systems are to be registered.

    See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/septic-tank-registration-charges.html


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    #200
    waster81
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭waster81


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Complete sop to the rural element today. A farcical registration fee of €5 that won't even cover the administration of the fee, never mind the inspections, and now talk of grants to fix tanks that are not up to scratch.


    But you're more than happy for rural families to subsidise urban families

    Who pays for the upkeep of urban water systems - it comes from all taxpayers

    Given your stance then urban dwellers should pay for their water systems


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    #201
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Ogham wrote: »
    It isn't just septic tanks - all domestic waste disposal systems are to be registered.

    See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/septic-tank-registration-charges.html

    On site systems.. which my understanding is doesn't cover the average dwelling connected to the public sewer system. So, those badly maintained systems can continue to leak effluent into the environment..

    Either we want to tackle the problem or we don't.. If we want to tackle the problem then registration shouldn't be necessary.. every dwelling has to get rid of it's effluent/grey water in some manner, therefore all systems should be regularily checked.


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    #202
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Why shouldn't the state assist rural dwellers? The state has spent billions of £/€'s over the last number of decades implementing public sewage schemes. Those people who live in urban areas have gained proportionality more from this investment by the state, which was funded by taxes collected by both the urban and rural dweller.

    The rural dweller has received no benefit as a result of massive investment in public sewage schemes even though they have paid to fund the implementation for such schemes and continue to pay for their upkeep. Now the state is implementing regulations which will inevitably require rural dwellers to spend thousands of euro on upgrading their own septic tank systems in order to ensure they comply with regulations.

    Let the state step in and fund a retrofit scheme if restoration work is required - let the rural dweller be granted aid in the same manner that the urban dweller has received aid through the implementation of public sewage schemes.
    waster81 wrote: »
    But you're more than happy for rural families to subsidise urban families

    Who pays for the upkeep of urban water systems - it comes from all taxpayers

    Given your stance then urban dwellers should pay for their water systems
    Public sewerage systems do not just benefit those who live in urban areas, they also benefit anyone who works, shops, socialises or uses recreational facilities connected to public sewers, regardless of where they live. Unless you live like a hermit you get some benefit from public sewers. Public sewerage systems are vital to the economy and therefore benefit everyone.

    Any grants given to owners of septic tanks will be for the benefit of that person alone with no benefit to the wider society. Public sewerage systems are an equitable way of spending public money because, regardless of where you live, you will get some benefit whereas grants given to the owners of septic tanks are exclusively for the people who use that house.


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    #203
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Public sewerage systems do not just benefit those who live in urban areas, they also benefit anyone who works, shops, socialises or uses recreational facilities connected to public sewers, regardless of where they live. Unless you live like a hermit you get some benefit from public sewers. Public sewerage systems are vital to the economy and therefore benefit everyone.

    Any grants given to owners of septic tanks will be for the benefit of that person alone with no benefit to the wider society. Public sewerage systems are an equitable way of spending public money because, regardless of where you live, you will get some benefit whereas grants given to the owners of septic tanks are exclusively for the people who use that house.

    umm not true.. the whole point of this change is because badly maintained spectic tanks can pollute water systems and the environment used by everyone....


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    #204
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Public sewerage systems do not just benefit those who live in urban areas, they also benefit anyone who works, shops, socialises or uses recreational facilities connected to public sewers, regardless of where they live. Unless you live like a hermit you get some benefit from public sewers.

    And the Vat and other taxes you the user hands over when frequenting these establishments........


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    #205
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Watching the news this evening, I saw a piece about a protest meeting of those opposing the household charge and septic tank charge......some were absolutely foaming at the mouth at the thought of having to pay €100 and €5.

    Mostly older people from what I saw. Perhaps they have never paid a penny in charges in their lives...pathetic. Get a real issue to oppose, is my advice. Ireland will never change with this attitude of non compliance and unaccountability. If it is costing now, think of all the decades where people have not had to pay and all those septic tanks with no regulation or inspection possibly polluting the environment. They need to get real and face up to their responsibility. Only 5% of households so far have registered and paid.


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    #206
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Mr.Micro wrote: »

    Mostly older people from what I saw. Perhaps they have never paid a penny in charges in their lives...pathetic.

    Think about that for a moment.
    50, 60, 70 years worth of charges.


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    #207
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    mikom wrote: »
    Think about that for a moment.
    50, 60, 70 years worth of charges.

    Well €100 and €5 seem to be a charge too much? One would think they, and only they had been singled out to pay, such was their indignation.


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    #208
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Well €100 and €5 seem to be a charge too much?

    Thin end of the wedge.
    In a year or two when this gets outsourced to a body like is in place for the NCT then you'll see the regular pulling of big bucks from each septic tank owner.
    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    One would think they, and only they had been singled out to pay, such was their indignation.

    If you don't roar for yourself shur who else would you roar for.
    Watch your own house.


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    #209
    MOSSAD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 317 ✭✭MOSSAD


    It's not so much the inspection as the apparatchiks that will do the inspecting. Look at the bloody planners-you present a house design and they send it back with altered doors, height, layouts.
    Just another way for the Irish to f@*k each other over.


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    #210
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    mikom wrote: »
    Thin end of the wedge.
    In a year or two when this gets outsourced to a body like is in place for the NCT then you'll see the regular pulling of big bucks from each septic tank owner.



    If you don't roar for yourself shur who else would you roar for.
    Watch your own house.

    I do not dispute that the cost will rise. I will pay, because it has been passed in to law and it is now a fact of life, whether I like it or not. I will have to pay the septic tank charge as well. The latter scheme has been in Cavan for years with some success for the home owner as well as the LA, and the environment. Many other costs will rise, fuel,gas, food, taxes, and other things and will they protest at these as well? Too many people have been unaccountable for too long, and I think its more to do with legally having to register to pay, and all that comes with that, than actually paying the €100.


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    #211
    waster81
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭waster81


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Public sewerage systems do not just benefit those who live in urban areas, they also benefit anyone who works, shops, socialises or uses recreational facilities connected to public sewers, regardless of where they live. Unless you live like a hermit you get some benefit from public sewers. Public sewerage systems are vital to the economy and therefore benefit everyone.

    Any grants given to owners of septic tanks will be for the benefit of that person alone with no benefit to the wider society. Public sewerage systems are an equitable way of spending public money because, regardless of where you live, you will get some benefit whereas grants given to the owners of septic tanks are exclusively for the people who use that house.

    The point is that urban dwellers have had their home sewerage systems paid for by all taxpayers.

    How exactly are those living in the countryside benefiting from this?


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