How to tackle the drink problem

D1stant

Lots of noise about removal of below cost alcohol sales from Supermarkets & Garages. This penalises the responsible because of the irresponsible, just another stealth tax, Vintners Association plot, nanny state - whatever - pick your gripe

Price increases are a pretty blunt instrument. Cigs for example are approaching 10 quid a pack and I'm not sure its had much impact.

Would a quota system work?

Everyone over 18 is issued with a DrinkLink card to buy X units per month. Only the card holder would be served. When you have used up your credit you can go to a pub and pay through the nose until next months quota comes

My name is URL

A quota card seems as bit too Orwellian for my liking.

then everyone sells on their quota cards, people who want to drink will keep drinking, and all it'll be is a nightmare of forms for the rest of us

besides which, it should be up to people to partake or not as they choose, not the rest of us
that means any resulting medical bills etc should fall on them, of course

M cebee

My name is URL wrote: »

A quota card seems as bit too Orwellian for my liking.

prohibition lite

Overheal

Why should the state place so much social responsibility on everyone, just to satisfy the very small percentage of people who have no personal responsibility?

D1stant

bluewolf wrote: »

then everyone sells on their quota cards, people who want to drink will keep drinking, and all it'll be is a nightmare of forms for the rest of us

besides which, it should be up to people to partake or not as they choose, not the rest of us
that means any resulting medical bills etc should fall on them, of course

The card is not usable by another person

Of course people could 'card pool' but on average the consumption should come down?

And perhaps there is some weighting factor in charging for drink-related healthcare versus how many quota points you have used?

Just exploring this. Do not have the answers

quietriot

We've a drinking culture here that isn't going to be effectively tackled by quotas. The culture needs to be destroyed, but it is near to impossible as it's something that we are introduced to from a very early age here.

I don't think the answer lies in making everyone pay for the problem of a few though, absolutely not. I think that it should lie in tougher measures being taken to deal with those who develop a problem with it.

ShooterSF

If and it's a big if the state should interfere at all the only idea I could like in theory would be one that subsidises businesses that could be considered youth activities e.g bowling alleys, video game clubs, drama groups etc.
Offer alternatives to under 18s. Leave adults well alone.

af_thefragile

Make it free.

Then people will lose the novelty of drinking...



Seriously speaking, alcohol is a horrible substance. I'm around hospitals a lot and it is overwhelming the number of patients you see with all sorts of alcohol related problems. And not just physical health problems but mental and socials problems too. Its quite terrible when you witness the full burdern of alcohol on the person and on the hse.

tmc86

As much as the state pretend that they "care about minors drinking and high alcohol consumption" they'd never bring in a measure as sever as a quota system as it would significanlty restrict their revenue.

They're happy to be seen as concerned and worried with the way the country's drinking habits are going but deep down their eyes are lit up by gold euro signs.

I dont think that it would easily be accepted by people too. I for one would certainly not be an advocate of a quota system. I wouldn't want my freedom and personal choice to be restricted by our concerned government who would dictate how much I drink and when I can drink.

Having said that it might be a good idea to introduce for younger ages say from 18-21 to prevent heavy binge drinking when buying from an off licence.

quietriot

My solution to it, to start, would be something like:

One form of ID accepted for the sale of alcohol and ID for alcohol is mandatory. Within this, what would be, electronic ID has something that the seller scans to check for "records".

A "record" is gained if people end up in A&E due to something drink related (such as a drunken brawl) or involved with the Gardai due to drink. Could easily be added to the card by staff on hand when dealing with the drunks.

If there is a "record" on the card, the user is banned from purchasing alcohol for "x" time period. "x" grows with every record added, even if they're not concurrent i.e I get a record on my card, that record expires and I get a new record. The time period of the second record is dramatically more than the first.

Anyone found to purchase alcohol with their card for someone with a record on their own card or those underage gets a "record" or banned from purchasing alcohol in the future.

It would promote responsibility - responsible drinking, not buying kids drink, not buying alcoholics drink, etc. while letting people remain free to drink as much as they like under the knowledge that if they overdo it and end up in a situation, it may be the last drink they'll have for quite some time.

RichieC

It starts at home, stop looking for government to fix our problems with ****ty bureaucratic and costly measures that will ultimately just buoy the black market.

quietriot

ShooterSF wrote: »

If and it's a big if the state should interfere at all the only idea I could like in theory would be one that subsidises businesses that could be considered youth activities e.g bowling alleys, video game clubs, drama groups etc.
Offer alternatives to under 18s. Leave adults well alone.

A drunk adult coming home and beating or worse their wife/children because they're drunk does much more damage to themselves and others than under 18s who get drunk and have little fist fights or perhaps smash up the odd bit of property.

quietriot

RichieC wrote: »

It starts at home, stop looking for government to fix our problems with ****ty bureaucratic and costly measures that will ultimately just buoy the black market.

Yep, it does start at home, which is also interestingly where our culture of alcohol comes from.

A very simple and cost effective solution would be to impose mandatory sentences on anyone found to be selling or supplying alcohol to minors and to impose punishment on parents if their children are found to have alcohol on them. Not just fine the off-license/supermarket, jail the staff member who sold the child booze, or jail the guy who went in to buy it for them if applicable and then we'll see how easily they get it.

henryporter

How about putting something in our drinking water that would make us violently ill every time we drink alcohol?

Tazz T

I agree with QuietRiot's licensing system. You need a licence to drive a car, you should have a licence to drink which can have points added for anti-social behaviour etc. Anyone got drinking or intoxicated without when should be charged with an offence.

But I disagree with your 'our drinking culture starts at home'. Our drinking culture comes from drink being demonised in Irish society mostly as a result of the Catholic church - confirmation and all that. As a result of that and parents disallowing alcohol consumption, it's the first things teenagers do to rebel when they become teenagers.

Captain_Generic

quietriot wrote: »

Not just fine the off-license/supermarket, jail the staff member who sold the child booze, or jail the guy who went in to buy it for them if applicable and then we'll see how easily they get it.

If the availability of hash and weed is anything to go by, very easily

bleg

People should take responsibility for their own actions and the actions of those for whom they act as guardians.

alwayswright

quietriot wrote: »

A "record" is gained if people end up in A&E due to something drink related (such as a drunken brawl) or involved with the Gardai due to drink. Could easily be added to the card by staff on hand when dealing with the drunks.

Totally understand where you're coming from but this would make people who are seriously ill from alcohol avoid going to hospital in a time of need. Scaring people away from A&E is not the way to go

Pherekydes

quietriot wrote: »

Yep, it does start at home, which is also interestingly where our culture of alcohol comes from.

A very simple and cost effective solution would be to impose mandatory sentences on anyone found to be selling or supplying alcohol to minors and to impose punishment on parents if their children are found to have alcohol on them. Not just fine the off-license/supermarket, jail the staff member who sold the child booze, or jail the guy who went in to buy it for them if applicable and then we'll see how easily they get it.

People learn by example. Young people learn to binge-drink from their peers and their parents. Parents who drink responsibly at home, showing their children the responsible use of alcohol would end up in prison under your system.

The purchasing of alcohol (in supermarkets) is not the problem. They sell alcohol in French supermarkets, but they don't have a binge-drinking culture the way we and the British have.

sensibleken

Stagger closing times for a start so people dont race to get drunk

CageWager

They decreased pub/club opening hours - people start earlier and the "pre-sesh" is born.

They force off licences etc to stop at 10pm- People buy drink before 10 and often panic buy extra for fear that they run out and cant get any more.

They now want to limit the amount we drink by increasing cost at the bottom end and decreasing availability- History has shown that no matter what limitation is put in place the will to drink will drive people to find a way to get hammered. It's a laughable attempt by the government to pay lip service to how they're "tackling the drink problem".

Anyone with a bit of cop on will tell you that in order to solve a problem you must tackle the cause, not the effect. We need to figure out why people in this country need to get hammered in the first place, not just make it harder for them to get hammered and hope they'll drink less.

sensibleken

Tazz T wrote: »

I agree with QuietRiot's licensing system. You need a licence to drive a car, you should have a licence to drink which can have points added for anti-social behaviour etc. Anyone got drinking or intoxicated without when should be charged with an offence.

But I disagree with your 'our drinking culture starts at home'. Our drinking culture comes from drink being demonised in Irish society mostly as a result of the Catholic church - confirmation and all that. As a result of that and parents disallowing alcohol consumption, it's the first things teenagers do to rebel when they become teenagers.

so long tourist industry!

Captain_Generic

Pherekydes wrote: »

They sell alcohol in French supermarkets, but they don't have a binge-drinking culture the way we and the British have.

Its hard to drink with your head up your ass

heybaby

Tackling the problem of alcohol needs to be multi-faceted

1. massively increase the price of drink in pubs/ restaurants etc like they did successfully in sweden
2. reduce the number of outlets where you can purchase alcohol
3. reduce the opening hours of off-licenses like scandinavian countries
4. reduce the opening hours of pubs / nightclubs
5. make pubs liable for supplying drink to people already hammered like they do in Australia
6. the gardai need to have a zero tolerance approach to people drinking in the street and or drunk in public places
7. at governmental level there needs to be a complete ban on all drink related sponsorship, no more 'Heineken' cup rugby etc, surely alternative sponsors can be found
8. there needs to be a concerted effort to divorce the perception of the association of a pint of the black stuff with a romantic notion of oul ireland, tv pictures of successive american presidents drinking a pint of whatever in a pub somewhere in ireland simply re-inforce the stereotype that ireland is most associated with alcohol.
9. before im accused of being a killjoy, you need to remind yourslef that gargle costs the economy billions of euro in productivity and others costs every year. With the death of the celtic tiger now is the time for a bit of reflection on the excesses we all indulged in and an examination of irish society's relationship with alcohol. They dont call it the demon drink for no reason.

people will sell either their quotas or the drink from quotas

next they'll have IDs for everyone with this licence system

next we'll hear, you know, we have this licence system, let's use it for criminals too and keep tabs on everyone

next, sorry, we can't sell you anything/we are arresting you/we are denying you treatment because your id is showing up in our system. mistake and you're innocent? well that's your problem

in the meanwhile, govt announces x million being spent on the rollout of this new system
next year, x+y million because it went over budget
5 years after implementation when the country is already broke, we have this crap

and none of this addresses the issue that it should be personal responsibility only. not govt nanny state hand holding nonsense.
you get drunk and beat your wife, you get locked up/whatever justice measures.
you get drunk and stab someone, get locked up etc
none of the quota systems or prohibition in the world is going to stop someone getting drunk

tourists want to come here and drink? forget it

all posted by someone who does not like drinking for the most part, gets drunk about once or twice a year at the most, and wishes people would drink less, please note

mconigol

quietriot wrote: »

My solution to it, to start, would be something like:

One form of ID accepted for the sale of alcohol and ID for alcohol is mandatory. Within this, what would be, electronic ID has something that the seller scans to check for "records".

A "record" is gained if people end up in A&E due to something drink related (such as a drunken brawl) or involved with the Gardai due to drink. Could easily be added to the card by staff on hand when dealing with the drunks.

If there is a "record" on the card, the user is banned from purchasing alcohol for "x" time period. "x" grows with every record added, even if they're not concurrent i.e I get a record on my card, that record expires and I get a new record. The time period of the second record is dramatically more than the first.

Anyone found to purchase alcohol with their card for someone with a record on their own card or those underage gets a "record" or banned from purchasing alcohol in the future.

It would promote responsibility - responsible drinking, not buying kids drink, not buying alcoholics drink, etc. while letting people remain free to drink as much as they like under the knowledge that if they overdo it and end up in a situation, it may be the last drink they'll have for quite some time.

People have the right to a fair trial so some guard/nurse/doctor couldn't possibly do this...that leaves a judge and he can more or less do this anyway

af_thefragile

alwayswright wrote: »

Totally understand where you're coming from but this would make people who are seriously ill from alcohol avoid going to hospital in a time of need. Scaring people away from A&E is not the way to go

I don't think if someone feels they're about to die will refrain from going to ane just cuz their booze licence might be taken away.

Also usually its someone else who sees the drunk person lying on the ground or injured in a fight and they call the ambulance.

Pherekydes

Captain_Generic wrote: »

Its hard to drink with your head up your ass

Great! You've found the solution. :rolleyes:

ShooterSF

quietriot wrote: »

A drunk adult coming home and beating or worse their wife/children because they're drunk does much more damage to themselves and others than under 18s who get drunk and have little fist fights or perhaps smash up the odd bit of property.

Well then harshen the laws for assault. Simple.

Maximus Alexander

In my opinion, nothing will ever stop the drinking culture in Ireland. I see it as a symptom of living in a cold, wet, dark country with a small population.

The weather is rarely good enough to get the masses interested in outdoor activities and hobbies. Lack of sunlight has most people affected by SAD to some degree, whether they realise it or not. Just look at the difference in the general mood between a sunny week in June and any time between September and April. Small population and rip-off culture means that there's no real entertainment on hand that doesn't cost a bundle.

People drink because it's one of the only things they can think to do if they want to socialize in this country. I can't see that ever changing. That's not to say that everyone in the country follows this pattern.