Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

whats the story with lasers

  • 25-01-2012 12:51am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 572 airsoftdes


    Hey was just wondering what the story is with
    the colours and usage of lasers


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,502 defenderdude


    airsoftdes wrote: »
    Hey was just wondering what the story is with
    the colours and usage of lasers


    Some info worth reading here...

    http://irishairsoft.ie/?p=109
    http://irishairsoft.ie/?p=104


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭ andy_g


    We also have it mentioned in the airsoft adverts charter :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭ Beez


    Am i reading that wrong or is it saying overpowered lasers are classed as firearms in the eye of the law? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,160 Inari


    Firearms components - however as far as I know that is specific to them being gun-mounted.

    In Ireland there are a LOT of legal grey areas - you can buy laser modules in a variety of colours in component shops such as Petes, Maplin, Radionics etc. However, as far as Airsoft is concerned, once it is capable of being gun mounted, then if it is outside of the legal parameters then it is a firearms component, and thus illegal.

    That is my understanding of it at least


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,993 ✭✭✭✭ o1s1n


    Inari wrote: »
    Firearms components - however as far as I know that is specific to them being gun-mounted.

    In Ireland there are a LOT of legal grey areas - you can buy laser modules in a variety of colours in component shops such as Petes, Maplin, Radionics etc. However, as far as Airsoft is concerned, once it is capable of being gun mounted, then if it is outside of the legal parameters then it is a firearms component, and thus illegal.

    That is my understanding of it at least

    I think he was talking about overpowered lasers themselves, not necessarily those which are mounted on airsoft guns.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 503 mafo


    One day farts on the airsoft site will be banned because it will be treated as a chemical weapon :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,765 ✭✭✭ Stercus Accidit


    Lasers are completely useless on the field as you cant even see the dot. The legal limit is 5Mw power and they have to be red, green or blue are restricted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    o1s1n wrote: »
    I think he was talking about overpowered lasers themselves, not necessarily those which are mounted on airsoft guns.
    Beez wrote: »
    Am i reading that wrong or is it saying overpowered lasers are classed as firearms in the eye of the law? :rolleyes:

    Regarding Laser modules othen than those which are mountable on a firearm/RIF, there is no legislation.

    There is legislation surrounding them in other countries and we are due to be pulled into line - but Irish law itself does not at the moment list any regulation wrt lasers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    Lasers are completely useless on the field as you cant even see the dot.

    Correct.
    The legal limit is 5Mw power and they have to be red, green or blue are restricted.

    Refer to my previous post - or feel free to cite the relevent act & subsection as if it's there, I'd love to know about it (and I'd wholeheartedly endorse it) - but I've yet to see it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 Eloise Obedient Headphones


    Really, green and blue are restricted? (I'm talking in terms of non gun mounted here)
    Cause I have four green lasers 50 - 200mw and a blue one 50mw. All bought online and I received the 50mw green one last week.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 984 CpcRc


    Really, green and blue are restricted? (I'm talking in terms of non gun mounted here)
    Cause I have four green lasers 50 - 200mw and a blue one 50mw. All bought online and I received the 50mw green one last week.

    This page that was linked earlier says about the 5mW limit. And it says that lasers are to be within the 630-680nm range. Red is within this range but blue and green are not. The visible light spectrum is here. So looks like no blue or green, or violet too :eek:.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 Eloise Obedient Headphones


    I'm talking in terms of none airsoft related use, as in for home use, would they still be of the not-so-legal status?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,395 Decoy


    I'm talking in terms of none airsoft related use, as in for home use, would they still be of the not-so-legal status?

    I believe they are illegal in their own right, forget any airsoft-related use. I have no idea if it would be considered a felony of just a misdemeanour, more knowledgable folk than I can answer that, but be thankful that they are not viewed in the same way as UK law where possession of a green laser comes under the anti-terrorism act!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    Again, and in the interest of validation of the facts as opposed to hearsay (which is unfortunately what I believe this all to be)- does anyone have a link to the legislation which covers any/all of the above?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    CpcRc wrote: »
    This page that was linked earlier says about the 5mW limit.

    ...inconjunction with an RIF (ie: a mountable laser). This is not an outright legislation regarding lasers in general.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,765 ✭✭✭ Stercus Accidit


    So there is no specific legislation in that case, just a letter from the DOJ that we are interpreting to be specific to lasers designed to be attached to a firearm or RIF.
    I don't see what's wrong with people citing the limits the DOJ did, I wouldn't like to see more powerful lasers in use at games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭ dinko4gr


    So there is no specific legislation in that case, just a letter from the DOJ that we are interpreting to be specific to lasers designed to be attached to a firearm or RIF.
    I don't see what's wrong with people citing the limits the DOJ did, I wouldn't like to see more powerful lasers in use at games.

    a laser with an output >5mW is dangerous to the eye. At 5mW the look away reflex or eyelid blinking effect will protect you from serious damage. even though i owned a 20mW green laser build in an AN/PEQ i never skirmished with it. To be honest if there was someone with a green laser on the same site i would be i d demand from the marshal to have him remove it pre game on the spot (and lets not go to the or else side of it)... not that red ones are innocent. i understand the attraction of it specially with the green laser line effect, but noone is entitled to turn a game into something that is potentially extremely dangerous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,048 OzCam


    They're not as safe as people think they are.

    Can I Safely Use a Laser Pointer?
    - Ken Barat, Certified Laser Safety Officer, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

    See also Laser_safety on wikipedia - excellent article.

    And if you need any more... You Only Received One Set of Eyeballs?

    BTW, there's a huge difference in eye safety between class IIIa (now 3R) and class IIIb (now 3B).

    Damage caused by a laser shining into the eye can occur in milliseconds, may not be noticeable at the time, and is permanent.


    Lasers:
    - with output of less than 5 milli Watts
    - in the light frequencies of 630 to 680nm
    used to be labelled Class IIIa (the letter A is significant), the new labelling system is Class 3R.

    IANAL but my understanding is that possession of a laser above Class 3R is legal for certain purposes (eg Astronomy) but you need to be able to demonstrate "due cause", and airsoft doesn't count as a defence.

    A Class 3B laser is over 5 mW and is capable of instant eye damage in some circumstances.

    Even class 3R lasers are not 100% safe for players wearing glasses, as the beam can still be focussed on the back of the eye and cause permanent damage. Any player with glasses should have the right to insist on not being lit up for this reason - and they're tactically useless anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,613 ✭✭✭ bullets


    I've asked for this information before and so far nobody has provided it
    when it comes to the "Law" and airsoft.

    Forget about the IAA getting a "response" from the DOJ and forget about what people
    think or say, Forget about the safety aspects about if your eye can blink in time to safe ya from damage
    and forget if its a Laser Pointer used for pointing at stars, using in presentations or if its designed to be mounted to a firearm or replica.

    Lets stick to cold hard plain jane facts and laws.

    Could somebody please post a link where it states in IRISH law that anything over 5mw
    is NOT legal. (Regardless of if its a Pointer or a sight)

    I've a Green pointer bought from Maplin that I use to great affect to get the cats out at night, rain hail or snow
    shine the lasers out the door and they run out and chase it.

    Could somebody please post a link where is specifies the wavelength
    where under IRISH law that restricts the importation/Sale/Use of Green/Blue/Purple/Amber lasers etc or wavelengths that fall outside of the Red visible spectrum.

    I am not saying anyone is Right or Wrong but I went looking for this information before that's specific to Ireland and I could not find it, but
    I'm sure someone posted it someplace on boards before, so if someone has the links it will ease a wee little bit of frustration.

    PS. For the record, I would be against using them in a skirmish, but I am fascinated with lasers and would love an extremely high powered one
    to do childish things like light matches, pop ballons and be able to see a solid beam in daylight.

    ~B


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Steve


    I'd also be interested in knowing the basis of this in law.

    I've used lasers, powerful ones, ones that can cut or weld bits of steel together in the past and there were no legal permits or licenses required over and above general industrial health and safety regulations. Point is, they're not illegal to own / operate in an industrial capacity.
    I honestly don't know for sure where they stand legally in terms of airsoft (other than they were prohibited under the charter before I got here) or in terms of a personal individual owning one.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,201 hightower1


    It always seemed mad from my point of view that lasers seem to be a touchy subject here with mods because its a grey zone where no one can seem to find legislation on their legal status yet legislation can clearly be found on the restriction of importing RIFs without the correct licensing yet people can openly talk about importing RIFs from abroad?

    Not trying to kick off , just always found that strange is all. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭ BioHazRd


    hightower1 wrote: »
    It always seemed mad from my point of view that lasers seem to be a touchy subject here with mods because its a grey zone where no one can seem to find legislation on their legal status yet legislation can clearly be found on the restriction of importing RIFs without the correct licensing yet people can openly talk about importing RIFs from abroad?

    Not trying to kick off , just always found that strange is all. :)

    That is because even though the import legislation is on the books, it has not been implemented yet. As of right now, it is not illegal to import a RIF without having a license.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    @ Bullets & Steve:

    That's pretty much exactly what I was getting at.

    Anything above class IIIa is serious sh*t and IMO should not be available without some sort of permit - the risk of accidental injury is far too great. However, as far as I can tell, the law as it currently stands is devoid of any regulation whatsoever regarding the sale, supply or ownership of non-mountable laser devices.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,086 ✭✭✭✭ TheDoc


    From this topic appearing a year or two ago, I'm pretty sure the we arrived at the status of " there is no law"

    And in relation to airsoft " its down to the site owner".

    I've used red and green lasers home and abroad, no idea what sort of power they are, but there was no issues with either, other then the fact there was a MASSIVE visible green line to me at night in Senny and Sweden, take form it what you will, look cool, are rubbish in practice.

    But I'd also, as whats being pointed out above, avoid hearsay scaremongering and stick to facts.

    And the fact is there was a letter from the Doj years ago that no one remembers, and other then that its just down to the site owner.

    Might be an idea to just ask before you commence a days play, and dont have it taped to the point of it being a nuisance to remove if the site owner says no.

    Personally wouldnt have an issue but thats just me...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Steve


    extremetaz wrote: »
    @ Bullets & Steve:

    That's pretty much exactly what I was getting at.

    Anything above class IIIa is serious sh*t and IMO should not be available without some sort of permit - the risk of accidental injury is far too great. However, as far as I can tell, the law as it currently stands is devoid of any regulation whatsoever regarding the sale, supply or ownership of non-mountable laser devices.
    Anything above IIIa can cause retinal damage in a matter of milliseconds, so can a properly aimed steak knife - neither are illegal in their own right.

    My take on it is, having real the blurb again on the IAA site, is whilst there are vague provisions in law that say that a laser (in any form) in a format that is mountable (define that) on a firearm renders the <1 joule exemption for airsoft devices void and therefore puts it into firearms license land.

    It's not illegal to do it, it's as legal as driving a car, you just need a license to do so - in this case a firearms license.

    IMO, it's not illegal to own any 'unmountable' (in terms of this debate) laser device regardless of classification (i.e anything from a green laser pointer for use in an office presentation to a pulsed YAg used for electronic component welding to a CO2 laser used for cutting 10mm steel plates in half). The issue here is it *seems* to turn your airsoft device into a firearm once attached - even by securing it with electrical tape.

    As with most things in Irish legislation, nothing ever becomes 'real' law until a case goes to court, is heard, decided, and a precedent is set - the government here have never had the balls to produce accurate, well defined legislation (except for when they are imposing new taxes or fish-in-barrel motoring penalties). This is the problem here, there is no precedent and there won't be until someone gets arrested and tried for having a laser taped to a RIF.

    The above is just my opinion / take on it as a user here, not as a mod.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    Steve wrote: »
    Anything above IIIa can cause retinal damage in a matter of milliseconds, so can a properly aimed steak knife

    This is the only aspect of the above post with which I take issue.

    "properly aimed" implies intent - therefore the cover is there from a legal standpoint.

    A 500mW laser on the other hand (upper end of class IIIb) requires no such intent (and nothing even approaching intent for that matter) at ranges extending well beyond arms length.


    The quoted point is entirely nonsensical.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Jsmurff


    I HATE green lasers I've often had headaches from them making contact with my eyes regardless of how many times I tell the same retard not to do so......

    I wish everyone would just stick to 5mw red lasers that (in terms of Airsoft at least) are meant to be used as aiming aids when firing from the hip and not 'tactically' blinding their apponents which can easily be done with a very high lumen torch of which I have absolutely no problem with as I often do it myself :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,369 ✭✭✭ gerrowadat


    Anyway, to summarise:

    Whatever about the legality, gun-mounted lasers are stupid and don't do anything but give people a handy 'shoot here' indicator. Get skillz.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Jsmurff


    gerrowadat wrote: »
    Anyway, to summarise:

    Whatever about the legality, gun-mounted lasers are stupid and don't do anything but give people a handy 'shoot here' indicator. Get skillz.

    Yes actually your right a torch is more usefull for the same purpose you would use the laser for


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,369 ✭✭✭ gerrowadat


    Jsmurff wrote: »
    Yes actually your right a torch is more usefull for the same purpose you would use the laser for

    Torches are also for spas. All you do is wreck yours and your team's natural night vision. On any sort of night game scenario, a torch just isn't worth it.


Advertisement