NCT then fix or Fix then NCT?

DConway

Hey
Just wondering what you guys think, my girlfriends car, a 98 Hyundai Accent, is due an NCT next month. She had a safety check done for free a few weeks ago and a couple of minor issues were brought to our attention, minor in terms of safety, but would fail an NCT apparently.

Now i'm wondering, should we fix it up and send it through? Or put it through and fix whatever the NCT throws up? Girlfriend wants to get it all sorted before she puts it through, I don't think its a good idea, as it could turn into a case of throwing money at bad.

What do you guys think?

Thanks for your help!

Mar4ix

do some simple check, like all lights, handbrake, wipers and liquid levels. if all fine, go for nct, than fix.

Nissan doctor

What were the minor issues?

F-Stop

Get fillings then go to dentist, or go to dentist and find out if I need any fillings? What a fcuking dilemma...

mickdw

Fit nothing apart from obviously blown bulbs etc. Take it to nct. It will cost under 30 quid for a retest. I guarantee you that you will save much more than that by only fixing what the nct guy tells you compared to fixing what a garage wants you to fix. Dont forget its in a garages interest to sell stuff and also even the most genuine garage cannot know exactly what will pass or fail so when dealing with borderline worn items, sometimes to stop the customer coming back complaining that the car failed having had full preperation at the garage, they will replace they possible fail items.

johngalway

From painful and costly experience, NCT, then fix!

Nissan doctor

Surely 'boarderline worn' items should be replaced anyway regardless of if they pass the NCT or not?

I'm well aware that there are plenty of garages who will over sell but most reputable garages carry out NCT pre checks for free and you can always get a second opinion.

This attitude of 'only fix what the NCT fail' gets on my nerves. People would have no idea how many cars I've seen come through the door with major issues and fresh NCT's and ones that are in for post NCT repairs and I find other issues which the NCT haven't noted.

IMO the point of having repairs done is to have your car a safe as possible not to get a bit of paper in the window.

mickdw

The direct objective here is to obtain an NCT. The advice given is directly aimed at obtaining the valid NCT as cheaply as possible. How the car is maintained after that is neither here nor there. There cannot be an argument for going with garage recommendations versus going with NCT results to determine the works required to get the NCT passed

Nissan doctor

mickdw wrote: »

The direct objective here is to obtain an NCT. The advice given is directly aimed at obtaining the valid NCT as cheaply as possible. How the car is maintained after that is neither here nor there. There cannot be an argument for going with garage recommendations versus going with NCT results to determine the works required to get the NCT passed

That's often the problem, The direct objective should be having as well maintained and safe a vehicle as possible, the NCT should only be a back up to that objective.

Mar4ix

well nct is vital to pass, as without it, will lead to trouble with garda. And have to be done as cheap as possible.

Problem here, is, people not servicing and maintaining the car.

I know guy, who killed brand new ssang yong with mercs 3.1 diesel engine in 2 years... never serviced, now he is driving pug 306 , which he drives a year since he bought it, never serviced.... guess, what will happen ?

mickdw

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That's often the problem, The direct objective should be having as well maintained and safe a vehicle as possible, the NCT should only be a back up to that objective.

Thats a whole other argument though. So anymore when someone asks this commonly asked question on this forum, they should perhaps be attacked and just told to maintain their car properly.
Where does the OP stop with a 98 accent in preparing the car for the test?
Should they do all bushes that are slightly worn? Should they have an emissions test done. If so why pay for this when test will tell you for sure?
If they shouldnt have an emission test done, why do the bushes as the NCT man might find an expensive emissions fault that might make the car uneconomical to put on the road etc. I dont disagree with the argument for mantaining the car but there is the very sensible argument here of what is economical to do and at what point you would cut your losses with a 98 accent. That comes back to my point, that you will end up spending money on what are borderline items even before you know where you stand with the car which to my mind is lunacy of the highest order.

Nissan doctor

In the case of the OP though, they have had the car checked by a garage and where told it only needs a couple of minor things so why would they be worried about the car failing on other, more serious things?

If the garage gave them a huge list of expensive things then fine, you can put it through and see what you can get away with, but assuming the OP trusts that the garage has checked the car properly, why wouldn't they just have the couple on minor things sorted(they will presumably be needed anyway) and then be sorted for the test?

It seems that if people have a car pre-checked by a garage and get a huge list....they are being ripped off and should just go to the NCT.

If they get told it needs some small minor things....they are still being ripped off and should go to the NCT.

If they are told its OK, but then it fails the test on something.....then the garage is useless because they missed something.

Garages can't win:rolleyes:

mickdw

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Garages can't win:rolleyes:

That was kinda my original point

1rishguy

DConway wrote: »

Hey
Just wondering what you guys think, my girlfriends car, a 98 Hyundai Accent, is due an NCT next month. She had a safety check done for free a few weeks ago and a couple of minor issues were brought to our attention, minor in terms of safety, but would fail an NCT apparently.

Now i'm wondering, should we fix it up and send it through? Or put it through and fix whatever the NCT throws up? Girlfriend wants to get it all sorted before she puts it through, I don't think its a good idea, as it could turn into a case of throwing money at bad.

What do you guys think?

Thanks for your help!

I was an Inspector with the NCT, my advice, get it into them, they will test it. If it passes it passes and if it fails bring it to a mechanic to repair the faults. JOB DONE.

An Ri rua

NCT then fix!!

They're the Orwellians. They tell you how many fingers they're holding up. It doesn't matter what you or a mechanic prodigy feel !

I had 'advanced corrosion' apparently on my Xantia rear brake hoses. I'd jut come from a seriously good service at an Indy Cit specialist. We were quite happy with the car. FAIL ! we brought it back and got a wire brush and some black paint. The advanced corrosion on this dangerous 11 year old 200k car was suddenly replaced (in their expert minds) by shiny new parts. Problem solved.

THEY DECIDE what's real and what's not. In fairness, they're issuing the cert so its their call.

shawnee

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That's often the problem, The direct objective should be having as well maintained and safe a vehicle as possible, the NCT should only be a back up to that objective.

I understand where the car owner is coming from. I believe that the nct gives a better and more honest check on the cars than do most garages who sometimes just want to sell you a product. I had a Mondeo passed the nct two years ago and took it for a service to the Main Ford dealer a week afterwards and he recommended two new tyres. Now the tyres looked fine and indeed I drove another 10k on them without a problem. However the garage recommended changing them at Ford prices..;) Similarly my sister took her fiesta to a Main Ford dealer to get it ready for nct., they charged 480 euro and when I took it to the nct a week later it failed on a bulb which proved very difficult to remove and replace. I have no doubt that they simply overlooked it as it took my mechanic a half hour to remove and replace it.
Take it to the NCT when you have checked the obvious things , otherwise you could be wasting your money.;)

johngalway

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Garages can't win:rolleyes:

Blame that on the dodgy garages who try to rip people off. I've had two experiences of it in my time, that I know of.

angelfire9

shawnee wrote: »

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That's often the problem, The direct objective should be having as well maintained and safe a vehicle as possible, the NCT should only be a back up to that objective.

I understand where the car owner is coming from. I believe that the nct gives a better and more honest check on the cars than do most garages who sometimes just want to sell you a product. I had a Mondeo passed the nct two years ago and took it for a service to the Main Ford dealer a week afterwards and he recommended two new tyres. Now the tyres looked fine and indeed I drove another 10k on them without a problem. However the garage recommended changing them at Ford prices..;) Similarly my sister took her fiesta to a Main Ford dealer to get it ready for nct., they charged 480 euro and when I took it to the nct a week later it failed on a bulb which proved very difficult to remove and replace. I have no doubt that they simply overlooked it as it took my mechanic a half hour to remove and replace it.
Take it to the NCT when you have checked the obvious things , otherwise you could be wasting your money.;)

Have to say I cannot fault my local Ford dealership
I get my car serviced there yearly and indeed my father bought a 12 CE car off them this afternoon
I brought it in today (mine is an 04 Fiesta) to get him to do a pre NCT check on it they replaced a break light bulb and put in a new battery (badly needed) for free (I supplied the battery) gave me a list of things that will need looking at for it's next service (5000 more miles) but said Thebes is grand for the NCT fingers crossed he's right
They have replaced bulbs and done a few bits free of charge over the years and consequently I'd never get my car serviced anywhere else
What goes around comes around!

Dilbert75

The correct answer is:
NCT it. If it passes, then book it in for a routine service to get a general check over, as you normally would. If it fails, then book it in for an early routine service for a general check over, including the items that need to be fixed for the retest.

Eddie Smart

You pay 50 euro anyway for first NCT inspection. So let them do their job. If the car fails- you will know exactly what to do and you will not be ripped off by greedy mechanic in a garage telling you to do that that and that to pass the test. Even many garages advertize pre-NCT inspection, they can't guarantee pass, because they can't check imbalance on brakes and shocks, that testing equipment is not widely available.

Stheno

Eddie Smart wrote: »

You pay 50 euro anyway for first NCT inspection. So let them do their job. If the car fails- you will know exactly what to do and you will not be ripped off by greedy mechanic in a garage telling you to do that that and that to pass the test. Even many garages advertize pre-NCT inspection, they can't guarantee pass, because they can't check imbalance on brakes and shocks, that testing equipment is not widely available.

I'd an NCT last year, and did what was needed to get the car through it, and ignored the rest of it and three months later the steering rack failed, end of car.

If I'd had a full service along with fixing the NCT issues, it might have come up. Car had been fully serviced about six months before.

Lesson learned for me as I was doing high enough mileage and in a sense "trusted" the NCT to highlight issues.

Any sort of major work on the car now, and I ask for a full service, hardly adds to the cost if you are getting decent work done on the car.

I do of course get the car serviced regularly, but that's about once a year given my mileage now.

Doesn't pick up the bits and pieces.

My current car failed the NCT for a couple of reasons and is going in to get those resolved, along with a full service, general check, and confirmation that what the NCT is ok, actually IS ok

Nissan doctor

Eddie Smart wrote: »

You pay 50 euro anyway for first NCT inspection. So let them do their job. If the car fails- you will know exactly what to do and you will not be ripped off by greedy mechanic in a garage telling you to do that that and that to pass the test. Even many garages advertize pre-NCT inspection, they can't guarantee pass, because they can't check imbalance on brakes and shocks, that testing equipment is not widely available.

There is at least one independent garage chain who are investing in full NCT spec test equipment and have it in a couple of centres already.;)

Stheno

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There is at least one independent garage chain who are investing in full NCT spec test equipment and have it in a couple of centres already.;)

Good to know, especially on a yearly test, and if they are charging 50/55 to do it. My indie will do the emissions/lamps etc but for the suspension etc I'd gladly pay a well equipped garage the same as the test so as not to have the time limits.

Now I'm the sort who does the NCT early to have time to fix stuff.

Then again, I'm an alfa owner

teednab-el

I get my car serviced regularly and last year I got a full service on my car before nct. I had to get the timing belt done as well and kit as it was due and had to get a few parts changed in the car before test. It cost me 800 euro in total and then booked car in for nct. Everything passed bar the front brake line hoses which I had to get replaced and retest. I nearly ended up spending 1000 euro to get an 11 year old car through the nct. Next time though I'm going to nct the car first and fix faults then. It was an expensive but valuable lesson.

Nissan doctor

teednab-el wrote: »

I get my car serviced regularly and last year I got a full service on my car before nct. I had to get the timing belt done as well and kit as it was due and had to get a few parts changed in the car before test. It cost me 800 euro in total and then booked car in for nct. Everything passed bar the front brake line hoses which I had to get replaced and retest. I nearly ended up spending 1000 euro to get an 11 year old car through the nct. Next time though I'm going to nct the car first and fix faults then. It was an expensive but valuable lesson.

This is my point though, your service and timing belt were due anyway, regardless of NCT or not. It cost you less then €200 to get the NCT pass not almost €1000 as you say.

You said next time you'll just put it through the test first, but if you had done this for your last test, you would have failed on the brake lines and had to get those done and your car would have been due the timing belt/service anyway so it would have cost you exactly the same......what's the valuable lesson?

An Ri rua

Nissan doctor wrote: »

This is my point though, your service and timing belt were due anyway, regardless of NCT or not. It cost you less then €200 to get the NCT pass not almost €1000 as you say.

You said next time you'll just put it through the test first, but if you had done this for your last test, you would have failed on the brake lines and had to get those done and your car would have been due the timing belt/service anyway so it would have cost you exactly the same......what's the valuable lesson?

Its actually worse than that. A timing belt needing doing is a timing belt needing doing. I wouldn't like to give a car (particularly diesel) to the NCT guys with a timing belt and kit that needed doing. No friggin way. 11 year old car or not, it would be worth zero if the TB snapped at high revs.

A sweetly running car is worth more than what some mug will give you for it. Its what it will cost you to buy that peace of mind in a replacement. THAT'S a valuable lesson!

teednab-el

An Ri rua wrote: »

Nissan doctor wrote: »

This is my point though, your service and timing belt were due anyway, regardless of NCT or not. It cost you less then €200 to get the NCT pass not almost €1000 as you say.

You said next time you'll just put it through the test first, but if you had done this for your last test, you would have failed on the brake lines and had to get those done and your car would have been due the timing belt/service anyway so it would have cost you exactly the same......what's the valuable lesson?

Its actually worse than that. A timing belt needing doing is a timing belt needing doing. I wouldn't like to give a car (particularly diesel) to the NCT guys with a timing belt and kit that needed doing. No friggin way. 11 year old car or not, it would be worth zero if the TB snapped at high revs.

A sweetly running car is worth more than what some mug will give you for it. Its what it will cost you to buy that peace of mind in a replacement. THAT'S a valuable lesson!

Exacty you hit the nail on the head there. I had to get other parts replaced as so the car could withstand high reving. I agree things had to be done anyway but they had to be done before going through nct test as those guys would dog the s*it out of the car. It was a precaution mOre than anything.

Nissan doctor

teednab-el wrote: »

Exacty you hit the nail on the head there. I had to get other parts replaced as so the car could withstand high reving. I agree things had to be done anyway but they had to be done before going through nct test as those guys would dog the s*it out of the car. It was a precaution mOre than anything.

Ah come on, the NCT cannot rev a car any more then its designed rev limit and have no reason to continuously rev it that high anyway.

If a timing belt failed while the NCT are testing a car, then it would have failed on the road anyway. Revving a car while stationary is putting much less strain on an engine and components then accelerating hard on the road.

An Ri rua

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Ah come on, the NCT cannot rev a car any more then its designed rev limit and have no reason to rev it that high anyway.

If a timing belt failed while the NCT are testing a car, then it would have failed on the road anyway. Revving a car while stationary is putting much less strain on an engine and components then accelerating hard on the road.

That's not true at all. I'm a bit surprised at your posting that. Revving a diesel into the red is NOT recommended. Indeed some cars (Ford Focus Duratorq IIRC< I drove one) had a safety cut-off to protect the engine from such malignant behaviour. They could just as easily set the thresholds lower and test all cars at that level. Free revving of engines without load is also a way, in my opinion, to loosen engine mounts. Opinions anyone?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-347047.html
Free revving (giving it current) an electric motor is an ABSOLUTE no-no by the way. Without a load, its damaging.

Nissan doctor

An Ri rua wrote: »

That's not true at all. I'm a bit surprised at your posting that. Revving a diesel into the red is NOT recommended. Indeed some cars (Ford Focus Duratorq IIRC< I drove one) had a safety cut-off to protect the engine from such malignant behaviour. They could just as easily set the thresholds lower and test all cars at that level. Free revving of engines without load is also a way, in my opinion, to loosen engine mounts. Opinions anyone?

Free revving (giving it current) an electric motor is an ABSOLUTE no-no by the way. Without a load, its damaging.

All modern electronically controlled engines have built in rev limiters which is set in the ECU by the manufacturer as the maximum RPM the engine can rev to, you can not rev beyond this safe limit by pressing the accelerator. A well maintained, healthy engine can operate at its maximum RPM without issue. Also, free revving has much lower cylinder pressures, much lower forces on the likes of main/big end bearings, the transmission isn't engaged so no longitudinal force on the crank, on turbo engines, boost pressure cannot reach the levels they will reach when under load etc etc

The NCT test manual specifically states that the maximum RPM should not be held for 'any length of time' anyway for diesels.

Petrol engines are not revved any more then 3000rpm in the test which is no more then the rpm that most cars would be at on a motorway.

The standards for testing cars in the NCT are based on Europe wide standards and methods which are compiled together with information from vehicle manufacturers.

The link in your post relates, mostly, to truck engines, large capacity, high torque diesel engines are only designed to run at low RPM and low stress. No relation to much smaller diesel engines used for cars.

How, do you reason, no load revving can loosen engine mounts

As for electric motors....how is that relevant?

dr.fuzzenstein

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That's often the problem, The direct objective should be having as well maintained and safe a vehicle as possible, the NCT should only be a back up to that objective.

Knowing that you are a caring and honest individual, I'd trust you on that advice.
But people go to the garage and say "can you get it ready for the NCT" and the mechanic hears "can you please replace every major component on the car and fleece me for my last few pennies".
Colleague of mine brought her car to a garage before the NCT and spent €800 on a car that was in perfectly good order, including wheel-bearings, that I'm sure where not replaced, but only "replaced" if you know what I mean (who can tell if it's new or not when they can't see it?)
Did it once myself (when I was young and dumb) and got gutted like a kipper.

My advise in general would be to bring the car to the garage and say "general service", that way you have a chance that they mightn't say "oh, it needs a cat, new wheel bearing, discs and pads all round, shocks and new suspension".
Don't even mention the NCT to them.
Or just service the damn thing yourself.
Put mine through the NCT after oil change, new filters, fixing a bulb and it failed on tires, as I knew it would, because they where worn, but had no money that weekend. Visual re-test, all ok.
And I learnt that headlamps will stay in alignment once they don't get fiddled with, so I would only get them checked after they have been removed, once they pass the test.

And never, EVER do pre-NCT checks.

teednab-el

Nissan doctor wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

Exacty you hit the nail on the head there. I had to get other parts replaced as so the car could withstand high reving. I agree things had to be done anyway but they had to be done before going through nct test as those guys would dog the s*it out of the car. It was a precaution mOre than anything.

Ah come on, the NCT cannot rev a car any more then its designed rev limit and have no reason to continuously rev it that high anyway.

If a timing belt failed while the NCT are testing a car, then it would have failed on the road anyway. Revving a car while stationary is putting much less strain on an engine and components then accelerating hard on the road.

You should hear the noise of a 130bhp tdi revved to the last. It's not a nice noise believe me and this engine has been looked after by previous owner and myself with regular servicing oil and filters changed every 6000miles. That extreme revving ain't good. Luckily I always take it for a good long drive before the nct. Limit the chances of damage to engine. Can you imagine if the engine was cold and that high revving was done. Chronic.

Nissan doctor

teednab-el wrote: »

You should hear the noise of a 130bhp tdi revved to the last. It's not a nice noise believe me and this engine has been looked after by previous owner and myself with regular servicing oil and filters changed every 6000miles. That extreme revving ain't good. Luckily I always take it for a good long drive before the nct. Limit the chances of damage to engine. Can you imagine if the engine was cold and that high revving was done. Chronic.

I agree, revving any cold engine is bad practice, but the NCT are not allowed to do the smoke test on a diesel engine unless the engine temperature is up to the correct level.

Cosmo K

teednab-el wrote: »

Can you imagine if the engine was cold and that high revving was done. Chronic.

Why would the engine still be cold? We are using the car's OBD system to get a temperature and rpm reading, and the test software will not let you go ahead with the diesel test, unless the engine temperature is at least 80 degrees.

dr.fuzzenstein

Cosmo K wrote: »

Why would the engine still be cold? We are using the car's OBD system to get a temperature and rpm reading, and the test software will not let you go ahead with the diesel test, unless the engine temperature is at least 80 degrees.

On my NCT cert the oil temperature reads as zero besides the readout for my smoke level (which is nice and low, thank god)
How was the smoke test done so?
If someone tests cars all day, I'm sure at some stage they just want to get as many cars through as possible.

teednab-el

Cosmo K wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

Can you imagine if the engine was cold and that high revving was done. Chronic.

Why would the engine still be cold?.

It could be cold if you lived down the road from the nct centre i.e. less than a minute away.

Nissan doctor

teednab-el wrote: »

It could be cold if you lived down the road from the nct centre i.e. less than a minute away.

But then it wouldn't be tested...

Guy:Incognito

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There is at least one independent garage chain who are investing in full NCT spec test equipment and have it in a couple of centres already.;)

Incidentally would you know what it would cost in that chain to check brake imbalances?:) I'm waiting on a new caliper to arrive to fix my 40% imbalance and would like to know beforeI go back if its properly sorted.

barneygumble99

oil temp has to be at least 80 degrees before the test can commence but nothing stops you revving the car continuously to get it to that temperature. the machine will only take a reading when it has reached at least 80. nothing stops you taking a heat measurement off the exhaust with the infra red either.

Nissan doctor

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Incidentally would you know what it would cost in that chain to check brake imbalances?:) I'm waiting on a new caliper to arrive to fix my 40% imbalance and would like to know beforeI go back if its properly sorted.

I wouldn't, but I might know someone who could find out for you tomorrow.:P

teednab-el

Nissan doctor wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

It could be cold if you lived down the road from the nct centre i.e. less than a minute away.

But then it wouldn't be tested...

How?

Nissan doctor

teednab-el wrote: »

How?

http://www.ncts.ie/pdf/nctmanual.pdf

See page 10 and 11 of the NCT manual which includes:

"It is absolutely essential that the engine is at normal operating temperature before carrying out a smoke test. Testers should ensure that engines are not warmed up by being left idling or at half throttle. They should be warmed up by normal driving."

Bearcat

Should this thread not have been posted in women's own or an equiv mens mag magazine ? Will I won't I stuff.........

teednab-el

Nissan doctor wrote: »

http://www.ncts.ie/pdf/nctmanual.pdf

See page 10 and 11 of the NCT manual which includes:

"It is absolutely essential that the engine is at normal operating temperature before carrying out a smoke test. Testers should ensure that engines are not warmed up by being left idling or at half throttle. They should be warmed up by normal driving."

So basically you would have to take it for a good long drive before the NCT is it? Even though you're only living down the road from the test centre?

Jesus I thought it was enough to pay for the test or retest and then leaving the onus on me to make sure my engine was warm enough and in the process waste fuel heating the engine up for the NCT testers.

Guy:Incognito

teednab-el wrote: »

So basically you would have to take it for a good long drive before the NCT is it? Even though you're only living down the road from the test centre?

Jesus I thought it was enough to pay for the test or retest and then leaving the onus on me to make sure my engine was warm enough and in the process waste fuel heating the engine up for the NCT testers.

Woudl you rather they revved it cold?

teednab-el

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Woudl you rather they revved it cold?

No way. I wouldn't let them

Nissan doctor

teednab-el wrote: »

No way. I wouldn't let them

So if you don't want to waste fuel warming your car up(keeping in mind that your car uses much more fuel when cold), and you(rightly) won't let them rev your car when its cold....how do you propose to get your car tested?