Shady Dealer

JoeRadd

Hi All,

I bought a used car off a dealer in Dublin less than a month ago. I test drove it two days before i bought and noticed the check engine light was on, i spoke to the dealer and said i would take it if he fixed what ever was causing the check engine light to come on and also flush and change the oil as there was mustard coloured gloop in it he swore was condensation.

He agreed and i returned two days later and took it. On the drive home though the check engine light came on and stayed on. this was 2 days before christmas so i called them and told the but they asked me to wait until the new year to bring it in to them to be looked at again

I did this and again the problem looked fixed until i was driving home when the newly fixed check engine light came on again.

the car isnt even in my name yet.

Am i in the right asking for them to take the car back and refund me?

they have attempted and failed repairs twice and refuse to pick up the car or in anyway put themselves out to fix the issue.

The mouthy gentleman there keeps saying to me ''it was a trade sale'' as if it would mean something to me

MarkR

That mustard looking stuff is more commonly compared to mayonaise. Means water in the oil. Means run a fecking mile.

Car seems to be a lemon. Engine light coming on during a test drive really should have warned you off.

Go back to the dealer, failing that small claims. "Trade Sale" has no affect on sale of goods.

Tallon

You mean he actually said there was condensation in the oil and you took it?

Zulu

<snip>
Pulled a similar stunt on me. Shorted the engine light behind the dash. I got stung. I'd never go near them again.

L-M

MarkR wrote: »

That mustard looking stuff is more commonly compared to mayonaise. Means water in the oil. Means run a fecking mile.

Please do research before you blabber crap.

Yes, it means water in oil. But many, many cars have this purely on the oil cap as it is condensation (ie. water and oil mixed).

Mostly happens on smaller cars or car that do a lot of short journeys.

MidlandsM

Op, if you signed for the car and it stated "trade sale" on the invoice/reciept or any documentation, your on your own.

If you did'nt he must fix it - check what documents you have.

voxpop

What car is it ?

JoeRadd

MidlandsM wrote: »

Op, if you signed for the car and it stated "trade sale" on the invoice/reciept or any documentation, your on your own.

If you did'nt he must fix it - check what documents you have.

The invoice said "sold as seen" but when I bought it their was no check engine light on and their was new oil with no mustard in it, so as seen at that point was a perfectly normal car. The engine light only came on when I was driving it home

JoeRadd

voxpop wrote: »

What car is it ?

Saab 95 2001

ants09

MidlandsM wrote: »

Op, if you signed for the car and it stated "trade sale" on the invoice/reciept or any documentation, your on your own.

not worth the paper its written on

ants09

JoeRadd wrote: »

The invoice said "sold as seen" but when I bought it their was no check engine light on and their was new oil with no mustard in it, so as seen at that point was a perfectly normal car. The engine light only came on when I was driving it home

Hi JoeRadd 'sold as seen' aint worth a curse in legal terms

MidlandsM

OP, you're on yer own.

Max Power1

Zulu wrote: »

I was being a bold boy?
Pulled a similar stunt on me. Shorted the engine light behind the dash. I got stung. I'd never go near them again.

<snip>

JoeRadd

MidlandsM wrote: »

OP, you're on yer own.

Why do you say this, On the day i bought the car there was no check engine light and no mustard in the Oil, with in one hour of purchase something had gone wrong and caused the check engine light to come on.

I don't see how im on my own. The dealer has attempted to correct the problem a second time this Saturday gone but again on the drive home the light came on again.

Why would they attempt a repair if they had no liability, i think they think ill just lie down if they claim they have no responsibility.

By attempting repair twice they are pretty much declaring its their responsibility are they not?

JoeRadd

Ill avoid the **** out of them

PauloMN

I could be wrong here, but I think a "dealer" must provide a 3 month engine and gearbox warranty as a minimum on any car sold when selling to a member of the public.

I would write the dealer a letter pronto explaining the situation, and use the Small Claims Court to recoup the costs of getting the car fixed elsewhere if it comes to that. Try to get everything down on paper before you go to the Small Claims Court. I got a full refund of a deposit I had paid to a dodgy dealer through the Small Claims Court, and it only costs a tenner or so.

Your gloop could be a head gasket failure which will be a costly fix.

ants09

MidlandsM wrote: »

OP, you're on yer own.

JoeRadd wrote: »

Why do you say this, On the day i bought the car there was no check engine light and no mustard in the Oil, with in one hour of purchase something had gone wrong and caused the check engine light to come on.

I don't see how im on my own. The dealer has attempted to correct the problem a second time this Saturday gone but again on the drive home the light came on again.

Why would they attempt a repair if they had no liability, i think they think ill just lie down if they claim they have no responsibility.

By attempting repair twice they are pretty much declaring its their responsibility are they not?

OP first off all it aint a trade sale, they are hiding behind the term trade sale which aint worth a curse in a court off law and they know that, they just want you to go away

MidlandsM

ok, but then the fact that the mouthy gentleman there keeps saying to me ''it was a trade sale''...does'nt sound like you have much more to get out of him, and he's washing his hands of you and the car.....regardless of what recourse you have or think you might have.

The fact is that by the time you might chase this dealer all over the place in the courts or wherever, you'll be out lots more cash than you are now.

Max Power1

JoeRadd wrote: »

Ill avoid the **** out of them

So it was that dealer then?

JoeRadd

MidlandsM wrote: »

ok, but then the fact that the mouthy gentleman there keeps saying to me ''it was a trade sale''...does'nt sound like you have much more to get out of him, and he's washing his hands of you and the car.....regardless of what recourse you have or think you might have.

The fact is that by the time you might chase this dealer all over the place in the courts or wherever, you'll be out lots more cash than you are now.

Cheers

I was going to go the way of the small claims court. Also i was hoping to resolve this soon as i need a car for work so im generally just looking for informed opinions on the perdiciment and i must im getting a good bit of help here.

Im also an incredibly principled individual and i will see this out to a conclusion whether it be i get my money back or i torch the thing on their property (Probably wont get this far).

JoeRadd

Max Power1 wrote: »

So it was that dealer then?

<snip> im going to point them in the direction of this thread as i seem to be getting a lot of in favour advice from you lot and i want to allow them to resolve the matter without being named and shamed.

MidlandsM

JoeRadd wrote: »

Cheers

I was going to go the way of the small claims court. Also i was hoping to resolve this soon as i need a car for work so im generally just looking for informed opinions on the perdiciment and i must im getting a good bit of help here.

Im also an incredibly principled individual and i will see this out to a conclusion whether it be i get my money back or i torch the thing on their property (Probably wont get this far).

before you go fill out the small claims court form, at least go down to him with the form and tell him you'll be filling it out and lodging it, that might stirr him into action......

JoeRadd

MidlandsM wrote: »

before you go fill out the small claims court form, at least go down to him with the form and tell him you'll be filling it out and lodging it, that might stirr him into action......

I need to go home and look at the receipt, as far as searching the CRO and other avenues i cannot find a company by the name above the door so it must be a Sole trader,

They are a reasonably sized used car seller BTW 20-30 cars on the lot from 2002-2010

ants09

JoeRadd wrote: »

Cheers

I was going to go the way of the small claims court. Also i was hoping to resolve this soon as i need a car for work so im generally just looking for informed opinions on the perdiciment and i must im getting a good bit of help here.

Im also an incredibly principled individual and i will see this out to a conclusion whether it be i get my money back or i torch the thing on their property (Probably wont get this far).

OP read the following link regarding your rights
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0013.html#sec13

if i was you i send them a nice wee letter and outline what you want done and give them x no of days to put the problem right and if they dont then you have no hesitation but to take legal action against them, also mention to them that badwill suffered to there business when you win the case

dr.fuzzenstein

Limerick man wrote: »

Please do research before you blabber crap.

Yes, it means water in oil. But many, many cars have this purely on the oil cap as it is condensation (ie. water and oil mixed).

Mostly happens on smaller cars or car that do a lot of short journeys.

I think he has a point.
Yes, it could be condensation, but how is one to know within a 20 minute car inspection if it's condensation or something more serious?
Mayonnaise in the oil cap and engine light on test drive, I would have to agree, don't touch with a 40 foot pole and run as fast and as far as you can, OP!

JoeRadd

JoeRadd wrote: »

....................

Im also an incredibly principled individual and i will see this out to a conclusion whether it be i get my money back or i torch the thing on their property (Probably wont get this far).

Let's not get carried away now, torching cars on dealer's forecourts :rolleyes:

JoeRadd

ants09 wrote: »

OP read the following link regarding your rights
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0013.html#sec13

if i was you i send them a nice wee letter and outline what you want done and give them x no of days to put the problem right and if they dont then you have no hesitation but to take legal action against them, also mention to them that badwill suffered to there business when you win the case

For sure, thanks,

I'm also going to try get hold of the owner as the guy i spoke to is beyond useless

Tigger

MarkR wrote: »

That mustard looking stuff is more commonly compared to mayonaise. Means water in the oil. Means run a fecking mile.

Car seems to be a lemon. Engine light coming on during a test drive really should have warned you off.

Go back to the dealer, failing that small claims. "Trade Sale" has no affect on sale of goods.

trade sale means business to business
small claims don't do business to business

MidlandsM

JoeRadd wrote: »

The invoice said "sold as seen" but when I bought it their was no check engine light on and their was new oil with no mustard in it, so as seen at that point was a perfectly normal car. The engine light only came on when I was driving it home

the OP states the invoice said "sold as seen", not trade sale.

PauloMN

Tigger wrote: »

trade sale means business to business
small claims don't do business to business

Doesn't matter in any case as he's a consumer, not a business, so even if they wrote "trade sale" on it, it wouldn't count.

MarkR

Limerick man wrote: »

Please do research before you blabber crap.

Yes, it means water in oil. But many, many cars have this purely on the oil cap as it is condensation (ie. water and oil mixed).

Mostly happens on smaller cars or car that do a lot of short journeys.

Water in the oil Engine light. Recurring problem. Trade sale. And you think I am talking crap?

I'm no mechanic, I work with computers. I do know that a lot of alarm bells are ringing from the OP's description of what has happened so far. Feel free to disagree, but there's no need to be rude.

The only issue seems to be a check engine light coming on which the dealer has succeeded in temporarily turning off twice. Seems as you need a car if I was you I'd get the issue diagnosed and go from there.

Is there still signs of condensation in the oil or is it ok now? Any oil or water consumption or any other issues aside from the light being on?

JoeRadd

RoverJames wrote: »

The only issue seems to be a check engine light coming on which the dealer has succeeded in temporarily turning off twice. Seems as you need a car if I was you I'd get the issue diagnosed and go from there.

Is there still signs of condensation in the oil or is it ok now? Any oil or water consumption or any other issues aside from the light being on?

There is a tiny bit still there, less than originally, although it looks like its coming back

....... so is the mustard type stuff gone now?

mickdw

they are obviously just clearing the fault codes without any repair being carried out.

You were foolish to buy it firstly and even more foolish to even entertain sold as seen being recorded on the invoice.

JoeRadd

Could someone explain what Sold as seen means in this situation because as seen at that point was

No check engine light
No mustard

Thanks for the replies people

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

....... so is the mustard type stuff gone now?

^ ?

TestTransmission

1.Thread cleaned up.

2.Please don't name and shame garages and accuse them of something.

3.Please don't add tags to the thread also naming these garages.

MidlandsM

JoeRadd wrote: »

Could someone explain what Sold as seen means in this situation because as seen at that point was

No check engine light
No mustard

Thanks for the replies people

it mean you've accepted it, as it was when you bought it.

JoeRadd

MidlandsM wrote: »

it mean you've accepted it, as it was when you bought it.

Good cos neither problem was present when money was exchanged

heres a pick of the goo just taken for those interested

http://www.imgur.com/YVZ9x.jpg

JoeRadd

JoeRadd wrote: »

Good cos neither problem was present when money was exchanged..................

lol, you've missed the point there a bit

JoeRadd

RoverJames wrote: »

lol, you've missed the point there a bit

dont see how,

i saw a car, it had goo and the check engine light was on, i said i would buy that car if those problems were not there. so that day i did not buy it

i saw a car two days later (same car) there was no check engine light on and there was no goo in the oil. i purchased this car

Max Power1

TestTransmission wrote: »

1.Thread cleaned up.

2.Please don't name and shame garages and accuse them of something.

3.Please don't add tags to the thread also naming these garages.

Fine, lets just say that <snip> seem to have taken the <snip> regarding this issue.

mickdw

JoeRadd wrote: »

RoverJames wrote: »

lol, you've missed the point there a bit

dont see how,

i saw a car, it had goo and the check engine light was on, i said i would buy that car if those problems were not there. so that day i did not buy it

i saw a car two days later (same car) there was no check engine light on and there was no goo in the oil. i purchased this car

Sold as seen means you are buying it as is,taking all its associated problems, visible or not IMO.

EPM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Fine, lets just say that <snip> seem to have taken the <snip> regarding this issue.

Naming and shaming not only could potentially get boards in trouble, put also the poster. Despite an on thread clear-up and warning you felt the need to name a garage again.

People have better things to do than to clean up your rubbish. Banned for 4 days.

JoeRadd

mickdw wrote: »

Sold as seen means you are buying it as is,taking all its associated problems, visible or not IMO.

OK but its a contradiction then because he told me he would repair the problems

Which trumps which?

mickdw

And he will now say that this is a different issue as the check engine light will come on for any one of 1000 problems.
Selling it sold as seen would imply that no warranty was given. You should never have bought it 'sold as seen'.
Whether or not a dealer can legally sell a car to a consumer without a warranty (sold as seen) is another issue.
There are some people who go into a dealer when buying and act the hard man - bargaining him down and asking what he can sell it for out the door, cash sale, no comeback, thinking they know a thing or two about cars and dont wish to pay for stuff such as warranty. Its hard to blame the dealer in cases like this if he then sells the car 'sold as seen' whether this is allowable or not.
Did you go to the dealer and agree to zero warranty if the noted issues were repaired?
If so, its your problem.

L-M

MarkR wrote: »

Water in the oil Engine light. Recurring problem. Trade sale. And you think I am talking crap?

i qouted one part of your post in relation to the oil on cap, in which you stated something that was wrong and i merely corrected you on that.

So yes, you were talking crap.

An engine management could be something simple.

if you're not a mechanic, you deal with computers, what are you doing giving someone advice on a car with mechanical problems?

JoeRadd

mickdw wrote: »

And he will now say that this is a different issue as the check engine light will come on for any one of 1000 problems.
Selling it sold as seen would imply that no warranty was given. You should never have bought it 'sold as seen'.
Whether or not a dealer can legally sell a car to a consumer without a warranty (sold as seen) is another issue.
There are some people who go into a dealer when buying and act the hard man - bargaining him down and asking what he can sell it for out the door, cash sale, no comeback, thinking they know a thing or two about cars and dont wish to pay for stuff such as warranty. Its hard to blame the dealer in cases like this if he then sells the car 'sold as seen' whether this is allowable or not.
Did you go to the dealer and agree to zero warranty if the noted issues were repaired?
If so, its your problem.

i was no hardman i paid what they were asking for and a warranty was not discussed.

infact 'sold as seen'' and ''trade sale'' were not mentioned either. i was handed a folded up receipt which i didnt look at untill the next day that had ''sold as seen'' written on it, my signature is nowhere near this piece of paper BTW.

Also shannon still have no record of the change of ownership roughly one month on

All i said was i suspected the mustard was a gasket leak to which i was categorically told it was not and it was simply condensation and they offered to flush and replace the oil.

they also claimed the check engine light was an O2 sensor and they still hold that claim after ''replacing'' it twice.

JoeRadd

JoeRadd wrote: »

..............

All i said was i suspected the mustard was a gasket leak to which i was categorically told it was not and it was simply condensation and they offered to flush and replace the oil.
...................

So what makes you think that's not the case?

LFC Murphy

MidlandsM wrote: »

Op, if you signed for the car and it stated "trade sale" on the invoice/reciept or any documentation, your on your own.

If you did'nt he must fix it - check what documents you have.

What is a trade sale?