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bob charles wrote: »

like myself, I buy whatever I think can leave a few quid for me not anyone else , I dont have a single Jersey:D maybe thats where my failing is.

delaval surely has a few culls not in calf you can have a go with. Won't break d bank! see how they go!

simx

bob charles wrote: »

like myself, I buy whatever I think can leave a few quid for me not anyone else , I dont have a single Jersey:D maybe thats where my failing is.

Made money off the only jerseys i ever bought, they were weanlings, everyday i looked at them i half regretted buying them so got a notion that i didnt like them anymore one day and loaded them up and brought them back to mart i bought them in, had €45/head on them after expenses, had them 5 weeks, mightnt of had much more if i kept them 2 years

mf240

Most lads that buy jersey calfs finish them as bulls themselves, very rearly see them in the store ring.

There very hard to manage as bulls. They would get up on themselves.

Muckit

I'd say you wouldn't want hairy hands

bob charles

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you got a few at 350-400kgs Jersey bulls would you take them and at what price.

No, wouldnt take them. worth less than a euro a kilo? they cost the same in feeding, accommodation, Tb testing, vaccination, time, herd etc as a good animal. How many customers would you have for Jersey bulls when the time would come.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

No, wouldnt take them. worth less than a euro a kilo? they cost the same in feeding, accommodation, Tb testing, vaccination, time, herd etc as a good animal. How many customers would you have for Jersey bulls when the time would come.

It seems to me that it's all about timing with poorer cattle but the factories are hell bent on trying to drive out the dairy bulls at the same time as they have plenty of continental cattle to buy with the obvious intention of forcing down prices for the finishers of both types of cattle.

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

It seems to me that it's all about timing with poorer cattle but the factories are hell bent on trying to drive out the dairy bulls at the same time as they have plenty of continental cattle to buy with the obvious intention of forcing down prices for the finishers of both types of cattle.

You are right freedominacup was talking to a lad that got a few bulls away week before last over 24 months an O's and R's. He got 3.80 and 3.90 per KG. Factory manager short of stock. It is the same with ''O'' bulls in general. Since July factory's have not wanted them TBH they have penalised all heavy bulls to an extent. However as grass cattle finish coming off grass and with the bulk of shed cattle not going to come out until February then factory's will rise the price of these cattle.

Over last two months saw Fresian Bulls around the 400kg mark selling for less than 1.5/kg some as low as 1.25/kg. No matter how inefficient these cattle are to feed there is a margin of between 150- 300/head depending on price, weight, feedcosts etc. You also have to understand that you have way less Capital tied up in cattle they may be coming in at a 2/1 ratio or better than good Contenintal's.

However the skill is marketing and having ready when there is a shortage and then sell and make sure all are sold before numbers recover again.

bob charles

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You are right freedominacup was talking to a lad that got a few bulls away week before last over 24 months an O's and R's. He got 3.80 and 3.90 per KG. Factory manager short of stock. It is the same with ''O'' bulls in general. Since July factory's have not wanted them TBH they have penalised all heavy bulls to an extent. However as grass cattle finish coming off grass and with the bulk of shed cattle not going to come out until February then factory's will rise the price of these cattle.

Over last two months saw Fresian Bulls around the 400kg mark selling for less than 1.5/kg some as low as 1.25/kg. No matter how inefficient these cattle are to feed there is a margin of between 150- 300/head depending on price, weight, feedcosts etc. You also have to understand that you have way less Capital tied up in cattle they may be coming in at a 2/1 ratio or better than good Contenintal's.

However the skill is marketing and having ready when there is a shortage and then sell and make sure all are sold before numbers recover again.

You have to take into account the much lower FCE and the killout. I fail to see where the margin is in some of these bad Friesian animals, now a good friesian is a whole different kettle of fish. Most of the Continental cattle are coming in around 2.10/2.20 so not 2 to 1 for friesian to continental.

saranac1

I sent a British freisin 700kg liveweight to kepak and killed at 4.10/kg

I cant see the prices rising past 4.10 tbh

Another one at 550kg killed at 3.90/kg

connormi

Any sign of price rise this week yet, still very slow to rise down south anyway.

tatoo

connormi wrote: »

Any sign of price rise this week yet, still very slow to rise down south anyway.

I was quoted 4.05 for the coming week, midwest.

locky76

connormi wrote: »

Any sign of price rise this week yet, still very slow to rise down south anyway.

I was quoted by Dawn Charleville €4.15 for whitehead heifers with 10c on top for Hereford scheme and 12c bord via bonus, not bad for heifers I bought in August 2012 for €380...
They're around 520kgs at the moment, should be O+'s with a fat score of 3+...
I would expect a kill out of 50%...
I'll stick up the return sheet next week!

Mac Taylor

locky76 wrote: »

I was quoted by Dawn Charleville €4.15 for whitehead heifers with 10c on top for Hereford scheme and 12c bord via bonus, not bad for heifers I bought in August 2012 for €380...
They're around 520kgs at the moment, should be O+'s with a fat score of 3+...
I would expect a kill out of 50%...
I'll stick up the return sheet next week!

1,100 odd less deductions. Roughly speaking what do you think these will leave you after costs? Seems to me these will leave more than there more expensive continental cousins!

larrymiller

locky76 wrote: »

I was quoted by Dawn Charleville €4.15 for whitehead heifers with 10c on top for Hereford scheme and 12c bord via bonus, not bad for heifers I bought in August 2012 for €380...
They're around 520kgs at the moment, should be O+'s with a fat score of 3+...
I would expect a kill out of 50%...
I'll stick up the return sheet next week!

Lockey did you get the hereford scheme top up automatically or are you in it and have them prebooked etc

locky76

Mac Taylor wrote: »

1,100 odd less deductions. Roughly speaking what do you think these will leave you after costs? Seems to me these will leave more than there more expensive continental cousins!

3 bales of silage (€50) and 200kgs of meal the first winter (€60), a years grazing and all the usual costs etc. (€150), 8 weeks of meal at 4kgs per day plus a bit of silage for the last four weeks (€80).
Purchase price- €380
Costs- €340
Profit- €400...

locky76

larrymiller wrote: »

Lockey did you get the hereford scheme top up automatically or are you in it and have them prebooked etc

you automatically qualify with dawn if you quality assured, have AAX or HEX down on the card, are an O=, 2+ or better and are between 230kgs and 380kgs...
it's something like that anyway but they don't give you any paperwork explaining the scheme, all i know is i've qualified for the herefords I've sent to date...

bob charles

locky76 wrote: »

3 bales of silage (€50) and 200kgs of meal the first winter (€60), a years grazing and all the usual costs etc. (€150), 8 weeks of meal at 4kgs per day plus a bit of silage for the last four weeks (€80).
Purchase price- €380
Costs- €340
Profit- €400...

your costs for ~ 450 days on farm excluding grain are €215 or an average of 48c a day. I couldn't get within an asses roar of that figure unfortunately

locky76

bob charles wrote: »

your costs for ~ 450 days on farm excluding grain are €215 or an average of 48c a day. I couldn't get within an asses roar of that figure unfortunately

hey Bob, they were back of a fag box calculations, anything I've left out?
Still a good bit of fat with the margins involved, they were just a group of handy heifers I picked up last year, the angus sucklers are the bread & butter...

bob charles

locky76 wrote: »

hey Bob, they were back of a fag box calculations, anything I've left out?
Still a good bit of fat with the margins involved, they were just a group of handy heifers I picked up last year, the angus sucklers are the bread & butter...

Try and do a full cost estimate and see where the figure is, have you included mortality, land, interest, etc - these three alone could be €100

ellewood

bob charles wrote: »

Try and do a full cost estimate and see where the figure is, have you included mortality, land, interest, etc - these three alone could be €100

Buying fees and transport home

Factory fees and transport

Both probably E50/ head??

Brown Podzol

The only way to get a handle on your costs is to complete a profit monitor. Do one in January while the figures are fresh. All fixed costs and variable costs breakdown. you will then see where you can cut costs without effecting output.

locky76

bob charles wrote: »

Try and do a full cost estimate and see where the figure is, have you included mortality, land, interest, etc - these three alone could be €100

Yeah the credit for the extra cash output has to be factored in at say 6% on €10k- €600 or €50 a head.
No other real costs...
Never had an animal bought in which died on me, I usually buy farm to farm off people i know if possible so I'll ignore mortality.
I consider the 25 sucklers i run as paying for the bread & butter stuff in the farm, the heifers were only an add on which meant I had to buy a bit more meal and shake a bit more fertiliser, I have factored these costs in.
and to answer another poster, yes i have two profit monitors done at this stage...

epfff

Never had an animal bought in which died on me, I usually buy farm to farm off people i know if possible so I'll ignore mortality.

Jesus would you give a night course over the winter on how this can be done

Farmer Pudsey

locky76 wrote: »

3 bales of silage (€50) and 200kgs of meal the first winter (€60), a years grazing and all the usual costs etc. (€150), 8 weeks of meal at 4kgs per day plus a bit of silage for the last four weeks (€80).
Purchase price- €380
Costs- €340
Profit- €400...

locky76 wrote: »

Yeah the credit for the extra cash output has to be factored in at say 6% on €10k- €600 or €50 a head.
No other real costs...
Never had an animal bought in which died on me, I usually buy farm to farm off people i know if possible so I'll ignore mortality.
I consider the 25 sucklers i run as paying for the bread & butter stuff in the farm, the heifers were only an add on which meant I had to buy a bit more meal and shake a bit more fertiliser, I have factored these costs in.
and to answer another poster, yes i have two profit monitors done at this stage...

I would not disagree with your costs Locky. My own off the cuff for these type of cattle would be 90c-1euro/day for the first winter 100 euro for grazing, 80 euro for last 8 weeks might be a bit tight depending on how much silage they ate if they were mine they would have been killed of grass. I would have allowed 100 euro for transport, dosing fees/head. As you said you bought farm to farm.

On interest 600 sounds a bit high you may have had the money in the bank earning 1-2% interest or if in the farm account earning nothing. I run my enterprise on a 10K overdraft. Cost about 500/years. On 65 cattle out put it costs7.7/head/year.

On mortality over last 4 years I have lost 2 bucket fed cattle out of 250 odd on the farm(knock on wood). One was my own fault the other broke his tail. Allowinga cost of 600/head on value and disposal this works out at 5euro/head. I usually allow 15/head/year for mortality and vetinary in general cost.

Others include a land charge, in my own case I do not charge for land in cost I bought the farm in the early noughties it is now worth about 50% more than I paid about a 4% return for it. so it is hard to justify a land charge.

Some fellas think the profit moniter is the be all and end all nowadays. You can get caught up and think that you are making nothing when you look at it when in reality you may have a nice income from it.

Locky you said the cow are bread and butter. However if you allowed that you might be able to keep around 3 of these heifers for one suckler unit which would leave the most. Also do the costing with what it costs to replace them Stores in cases like you heifers are running nearly 100 more than last year. Light friesian Stores are cheaper but coloured cattle and heavier store are more expensive in general

bob charles

epfff wrote: »

Jesus would you give a night course over the winter on how this can be done

You better book the Citywest for that course so

restive

Is it true that kepak are paying two separate prices for overage and underage bullocks?

just do it

locky76 wrote: »

I consider the 25 sucklers i run as paying for the bread & butter stuff in the farm, the heifers were only an add on which meant I had to buy a bit more meal and shake a bit more fertiliser.

I think you're onto something here locky76, particularly for lads with heavy land. Better grazing out of land during wet periods and at the shoulders of the grazing period. Potentially they could be outwintered and sold next autumn meaning no extra housing required. And less work that sucks:).

saranac1

Word is that prices are to drop next week 10cents

Too much cattle been killed

mf240

saranac1 wrote: »

Word is that prices are to drop next week 10cents

Too much cattle been killed

The usual flush to get the last of the soft sellers, before prices steady and increase up to christmas.

severeoversteer

prices will have to increase between now and the new year , and stay increasing,

factories will be doing their utmost to stop it though,

when the factory rep tells you they're full up, chances are they aren't and there just trying to create a backlog for the week or two ahead and thus lower base price

I see that the usa hasn't had as few cattle to kill since 1970's
theyd want to open that door to the usa fairly lively for our prime beef cuts