beef price tracker

Bass Reeves

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Patsy if you recoupled subsidies to production only then yes market forces would apply but with the safety net of a subsidy per head or some similar. The point of my argument is to Target what declining resources there are to active farmers not to passive landowners. What is active we can debate. Inflated cattle prices are doing nobody any good and is anyone making a decent margin??

Recouple subsidies, the arm chair boys will exit and let the trade find a new floor.

The alternative is the death spiral we’re all in.

Any recoupling of subsidies will play into the hand of processors and dairy farmers who will control supply. It willa slo paly into the hands of advisors and millers. It will force beef farmers into playing for extra ration, fertlizer and nitrates plans. As well as reseeding and contractors. Soa heap more works and costs for no return

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Bass on the tax code, if we all agree that farming is important for rural Ireland as the politicians call it and if we all agree the profit is going out of it then an farm specific tax code could apply. No reason why not. Manufacturing companies got it for years. Tech companies get it today. Why not for active farmers?

But you associate an active farmer is a lads that is farming full time. Like many from areas where the better land is there is a snobbery about a lad working and farming part time

Fireside Solicitor

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Any recoupling of subsidies will play into the hand of processors and dairy farmers who will control supply. It willa slo paly into the hands of advisors and millers. It will force beef farmers into playing for extra ration, fertlizer and nitrates plans. As well as reseeding and contractors. Soa heap more works and costs for no return





But you associate an active farmer is a lads that is farming full time. Like many from areas where the better land is there is a snobbery about a lad working and farming part time

No I don’t. I would means test it and I would link subsidies to production. I would end the day of just because I own land I get an entitlement. I know the system has grown around this concept over the past 30 years but it will kill us. Why? Because the money just won’t be there for it over the next 10-15 years. My issue is that as time goes on more land is moving into “passive” hands or at least it is where we are and the current system allows them stay passive and reap the benefits of the system. I want all of us real farmers who yes may have off farm income - I had one myself contracting - to get what’s in the pot first. I want the passive men who typically own decent land not to get entitlements based on land ownership They are wealthier first off and secondly they should be leasing the land tax free to an active farmer who will be productive. I’m not a socialist and neither do I begrudge these businesspeople but I believe that farmers produce good food and do a service to rural communities and that they are getting squeezed out by the current system and will get more squeezed. It’s a question of dividing the pie between who needs/deserves it and who doesn’t.

Bass Reeves

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

No I don’t. I would means test it and I would link subsidies to production. I would end the day of just because I own land I get an entitlement. I know the system has grown around this concept over the past 30 years but it will kill us. Why? Because the money just won’t be there for it over the next 10-15 years. My issue is that as time goes on more land is moving into “passive” hands or at least it is where we are and the current system allows them stay passive and reap the benefits of the system. I want all of us real farmers who yes may have off farm income - I had one myself contracting - to get what’s in the pot first. I want the passive men who typically own decent land not to get entitlements based on land ownership They are wealthier first off and secondly they should be leasing the land tax free to an active farmer who will be productive. I’m not a socialist and neither do I begrudge these businesspeople but I believe that farmers produce good food and do a service to rural communities and that they are getting squeezed out by the current system and will get more squeezed. It’s a question of dividing the pie between who needs/deserves it and who doesn’t.

If you tie subsiditiers to production even if it not directy tied to animals it will still be that are the main benificery's will not drstock farmers. If you do not tie it to animals you have to tie it to a stocking rate or to nitrates. This will mean you have to stock at a higher rate to get a higher subsidity. This will increase competition around the ring and the main benificary will be dairy farmers. There are 1.4 million dairy cows and about 550K suckler cows. If to access these higher rates of subsidities suckler farmer expand or other farmers expand into sucklers then the processors will have more cattle to kill and they will drop the price of beef as production expands. To maintain this level of production it means more reseeding, more fertlizer, more ration and guess who wins the those that provide these services or sell these products. As well it will mean that exporters wuill find it harder to compete for calves and weanlings so more cattle remain in the country to be slaughtered so procossers have more stock to access so they lower the price.

Muckit

MfMan wrote: »

Back on topic, what's being paid this week?

3.80 heifers

coolshannagh28

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you tie subsiditiers to production even if it not directy tied to animals it will still be that are the main benificery's will not drstock farmers. If you do not tie it to animals you have to tie it to a stocking rate or to nitrates. This will mean you have to stock at a higher rate to get a higher subsidity. This will increase competition around the ring and the main benificary will be dairy farmers. There are 1.4 million dairy cows and about 550K suckler cows. If to access these higher rates of subsidities suckler farmer expand or other farmers expand into sucklers then the processors will have more cattle to kill and they will drop the price of beef as production expands. To maintain this level of production it means more reseeding, more fertlizer, more ration and guess who wins the those that provide these services or sell these products. As well it will mean that exporters wuill find it harder to compete for calves and weanlings so more cattle remain in the country to be slaughtered so procossers have more stock to access so they lower the price.

Its a nil equation , as you say coupled payments disadvantage most farmers and the actual income is dispersed to retailers and processors; decoupled payments in a way are more advantageous to the farmer but again the actual payments are eaten up by advisors, vets etc ala BDGP /GLAS scheme so it is barely worthwhile participating .

_Brian

Coupling patients to production will drive beef numbers further and prices will slump completly.
As we’ve seen with Turkey live export markets are a precarious thing, meat consumption is down right across Europe (last numbers I saw anyway)

Doing something that drives increases in beef production needs to be carefully thought out regarding where all the extra beef is expected to be sold. We shouldn’t look to produce something just because we can, there needs to be a solid sustainable market for it.

The only changes I see with payments is more and more moving towards how land is farmed rather than production or farming type.

charolais0153

10 euro/ewe hasnt resulted in an increase in ewe numbers.
Bdgp hasnt resulted in an increase in suckler cow numbers.

patsy_mccabe

Where is the evidence that a suckler cow subsidy would simply pass on to the factories?

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Where is the evidence that a suckler cow subsidy would simply pass on to the factories?

The subsidy won't be allowed if there's the slightest chance of an increase in numbers.
If if it was paid on present numbers using the last few years as reference years it won't distort the trade but trying to get that simple fact through peoples skulls is near impossible.
Sucklers are unsustainable maybe but are they any worse than feeding poorly made freisian calves

_Brian

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Where is the evidence that a suckler cow subsidy would simply pass on to the factories?

That’s where all the rest of the profit has migrated to, that’s absolute evidence that they will engineer a system where it is passed to them. I’ve no doubt. History has proven it.

Goodeone

Anyone hear any prices for bulls?
Got quoted 3.75 from an agent for U grade bulls around 18 months old.

gerryirl

got 3.70 base for bullocks yesterday. got €4 a kilo with all in. Super cattle . they could have taken more feeding but whats the point

Cavanjack

Goodeone wrote: »

Anyone hear any prices for bulls?
Got quoted 3.75 from an agent for U grade bulls around 18 months old.

Heard 3.85-3.90 for u grades

Willfarman

gerryirl wrote: »

got 3.70 base for bullocks yesterday. got €4 a kilo with all in. Super cattle . they could have taken more feeding but whats the point

You had underage u grade cattle?

gerryirl

Willfarman wrote: »

You had underage u grade cattle?

Yes. They killed out 425 but they could have been fed for another two months without getting fat

Muckit

Got on well with heifers.
Bit of learning though with 4th one. She was a super girl and l thought she done. She just slipped out of QA....just. Had she made the 2+ she would have made an extra 18c all in and would have left another €70!

patsy_mccabe

Throw up the full docket. We won't tell anyone.

Muckit

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Throw up the full docket. We won't tell anyone.

Twud only confuse you Patsy!!

patsy_mccabe

Muckit wrote: »

Twud only confuse you Patsy!!

Ya, big money wrecks me head.

CloughCasey1

Muckit wrote: »

Twud only confuse you Patsy!!

Scored well Muckit. What hanging weights and ages ave?

Muckit

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Scored well Muckit. What hanging weights and ages ave?

A mixed bag. Everything from 325-440cold and 25-29mths.

Willfarman

A lot of beef being put into coldstores last week and this. Good sign or only a measure to control trade when the glut clears?

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

A lot of beef being put into coldstores last week and this. Good sign or only a measure to control trade when the glut clears?

Probably can't sell it quick enough, I'd say they're under presure to take cattle now.
In 2013 they were saying over 30000/week puts pressure on prices, over 38000 cattle killed last week

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Probably can't sell it quick enough, I'd say they're under presure to take cattle now.
In 2013 they were saying over 30000/week puts pressure on prices, over 38000 cattle killed last week

Wonder will this glut appear as way more cattle in marts the last month or so compared to say a non drought year

White Clover

wrangler wrote: »

Probably can't sell it quick enough, I'd say they're under presure to take cattle now.
In 2013 they were saying over 30000/week puts pressure on prices, over 38000 cattle killed last week

China are taking beef now. Would anyone know how much?

Reggie.

White Clover wrote: »

China are taking beef now. Would anyone know how much?

So are kuwait

charolais0153

White Clover wrote: »

China are taking beef now. Would anyone know how much?

Not enough to notice

White Clover

charolais0153 wrote: »

Not enough to notice

So we're told.....

tatoo

oneten wrote: »

Manual grading still goes on, if the grader code on your kill docket is anything other than 001 then your cattle have been manually graded, and is definitely being used by one factory to downgrade carcasses.
I've been on the receiving end of this thievery.
I'm told you can request the still images from the grading machine and have them assessed by an
" independent " assessor with the IFA if you are a member. I don't know how true this is.

I have found that since I signed up for the Hereford bonus that my cattle seem to be graded much more harshly, I would have got a reasonable - around 25% Rs, but now they grade as 0+, I'm getting in one hand while it's been simultaneously clawed back with the other.

Danzy

Reggie. wrote: »

Wonder will this glut appear as way more cattle in marts the last month or so compared to say a non drought year

Lot of marts quiet over the summer,still are in much of Munster.

Quieter than last year this Sept.

Could be well spread out over longer if the weather was any way reasonable.