ULSU EGM

Polar Ice

ninty9er wrote: »

it would be fairly safe to say more will be rolling over than recovered by next October.

Since over 50% of 223k will be rolled over, what sort of impact will that have on cash flow? Will that impinge on C&S reserves (they'll get rolled over too unless required, right?)

When are we going to see the 2011 accounts?

ninty9er

Polar Ice wrote: »

Since over 50% of 223k will be rolled over, what sort of impact will that have on cash flow? Will that impinge on C&S reserves (they'll get rolled over too unless required, right?)

When are we going to see the 2011 accounts?

I'll have to get back to you on those. The audit hasn't started yet, not sure the auditors have even looked to start an audit plan, but I could be wrong.

Polar Ice

ninty9er wrote: »

I'll have to get back to you on those. The audit hasn't started yet, not sure the auditors have even looked to start an audit plan, but I could be wrong.

Non audited accounts are good too.

ninty9er

Polar Ice wrote: »

Non audited accounts are good too.

http://ulsu.ie/about/manacc/int/manacc2012

smcgiff

Can ULFM be transferred to C&S?

I think the management structure within ulsu may need reform to avoid future financial mistakes.

Alas, I don't see how c&s can remain immune from the overall financial mess.

cambridge

great point. one that was made at the start of the year. ulfm perhaps may be better suited as a society rather than the propaganda right wing of the co office. get more volunteers.

wnolan1992

cambridge wrote: »

great point. one that was made at the start of the year. ulfm perhaps may be better suited as a society rather than the propaganda right wing of the co office. get more volunteers.

AHAHAHAHAHA That made me laugh.

PROGRAM_IX

Much as I'd hate to see C&S lose any money for something that is arguably not their fault, I'd rather every club and society take an x% cut than lose a C&S staff member the way the SU has.

You might think that a pay/budget cut rather than a redundancy is how it would obviously go, but as we saw during the week it's not always as clear cut as that. Two sabbat positions are gone and further cuts are coming - redundancies were mentioned, albeit as a last resort. Personally, I would have preferred to cut the sabbat allowance as sceptre theorised rather than eliminate any.

Anyway, my point is simple: Money can be raised, but Paul and Liz cannot be replaced. Obviously the student body as represented at the EGM doesn't feel the same about the C&EO and CO.

OhMSGlive

PROGRAM_IX wrote: »

Money can be raised, but Paul and Liz cannot be replaced.

Statement of the thread right there. Words cannot describe the work they do for the C&S.

Ginge Young

smcgiff wrote: »

Can ULFM be transferred to C&S?

I think the management structure within ulsu may need reform to avoid future financial mistakes.

Alas, I don't see how c&s can remain immune from the overall financial mess.

Ok I kind of want to be as clear and concise as possible on this.

1) Clubs and Societies have always run within budget, never incurring debts and if cuts need to be made they are. There has never been a problem in C+S Financially as long as I have been there or the years before that I believe.

2) The problem with the SU is the management structure. New Sabbats come in every year with no accountability and they spend spend spend without having a clue of what they are doing. (Anyone remember the 4 screens that cost 30k, that they got 15k off us and then never maintained?) This year in particular I can see efforts for this to be halted, which I welcome.

3) C+S should be hit? Can't remain immune? Over 150,000 euro was TAKEN from us over the summer, we were not even consulted. The SU Constitution states that they will not be held liable for any debts incurred by C+S so why should we get hit when they incur the debts? (Yes I am aware there are legal issues surrounding that most likely).

4) Any changes to capitation of course would be fine so long as the C+S are consulted with. It is not a decision to be made alone by the executive and I will be doing everything I can to ensure that it is not.


Clubs and Societies have done everything they can to keep themselves going over the years. We have remained successful in this respect and now with 68 (I think) C+S in existence a cut to their capitation needs to be consulted with them.

I think there was confusion at the EGM when Rob (I think it's rob) stated should we should be feeing the pinch too. Why should we feel the pinch if none of the debt is ours? And even if we do, we should be consulted with. No cowboy hero moves being pulled within the SU to take over 150k euro from us and disguising it as SU Reserves (Which I might add are detailed in the audited accounts and C+S Reserves do not form an official part of the SU Reserves). Most in C+S felt if they had just been consulted about the money they would have had no problem giving a loan to the SU.

Sorry being involved in the working group has given me a better insight into everything. If there are to be ANY changes C+S MUST agree to them and with constitutional changes being put forward at the next GM I am glad to say that some members within the SU agree with this.

shabouwcaw

I think it should also be noted that the 2/3 of capitation that the C&S receive is a ratio. We're not taking money from the SU. It's not the C&S fault that while they operated within their 2/3 of capitation, through past mismanagement the SU decided to exceed their 1/3 in terms of liabilities.

The C&S/SU allocation question is one of prioritisation. Where do you think the money works harder for students? I would argue that the distributive democratic grassroots nature of C&S means that students are spending money by students for students in an extremely efficient way, providing good value for money. I would hate to see that system and that prioritisation changed due to structural unaccountability in a organisation that has traditionally seemed distant and irrelevant to students.

But yeah, keeping Paul and Liz is the most important thing for the preservation of C&S as service providers. We could muddle through anything else as long as they're there.

cambridge

PROGRAM_IX wrote: »

Anyway, my point is simple: Money can be raised, but Paul and Liz cannot be replaced. Obviously the student body as represented at the EGM doesn't feel the same about the C&EO and CO.

nobody is irreplaceable

freyners

cambridge wrote: »

nobody is irreplaceable

that statement is one of the most overused statements ive heard, its also a load of bull

yes no one is irreplaceable, but its the quality of the replacement that is in question. No-one could do the amount of work that Paul and Liz do for c&S of the same quality with the same commitment. end of story. You would be very naive to think otherwise.

PROGRAM_IX

freyners wrote: »

cambridge wrote: »

nobody is irreplaceable

that statement is one of the most overused statements ive heard, its also a load of bull

yes no one is irreplaceable, but its the quality of the replacement that is in question. No-one could do the amount of work that Paul and Liz do for c&S of the same quality with the same commitment. end of story. You would be very naive to think otherwise.

I agree. And in any case, regardless of the persons involved being irreplaceable - a matter of opinion, it's true - I was referring to the *positions* they hold, Development and Liaison Officer for Clubs and Societies, which if taken away are definitely irreplaceable. C&S *needs* full time people like Paul and Liz. No two ways about it. And I think they happen to fill their roles exceptionally well.

Jester252

I would like to point out that if the SU gets more money it will not solve the problem. The SU need to addresses the issuses that got it into this place for a second time. The best way to stop a fire is to remove its fuel source not add in more fuel

wnolan1992

Jester252 wrote: »

I would like to point out that if the SU gets more money it will not solve the problem. The SU need to addresses the issuses that got it into this place for a second time. The best way to stop a fire is to remove its fuel source not add in more fuel

Very true, but at the moment, expenditure is artificially inflated because there're debts to be serviced. If money was reallocated from the capitation, it would help pay back the debt quicker, thus reducing expenditure in a way that would not result in the loss of core services or staff cuts.

I do take your point though that the SU does need to tighten up spending.

Jester252

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Jester252 wrote: »

I would like to point out that if the SU gets more money it will not solve the problem. The SU need to addresses the issuses that got it into this place for a second time. The best way to stop a fire is to remove its fuel source not add in more fuel

Very true, but at the moment, expenditure is artificially inflated because there're debts to be serviced. If money was reallocated from the capitation, it would help pay back the debt quicker, thus reducing expenditure in a way that would not result in the loss of core services or staff cuts.

I do take your point though that the SU does need to tighten up spending.

If they was a change in the cap and the SU got more money to paid off the debts. What about 5-10 years down the line where they have a surpluse and it spend spend spend and all of a sudden debt for a 3rd time. This is what happend to Ireland. The SU needes to fix this within they budget if they what to make sure it doesn't happen again. They need to make people accountable for their actions.

wnolan1992

ninty9er wrote: »

http://ulsu.ie/about/manacc/int/manacc2012

Reading through October-December, the actual figure for Student Centre Rent is 0EUR.... and the budgeted was 25,000... what's that about?

Jester252 wrote: »

If they was a change in the cap and the SU got more money to paid off the debts. What about 5-10 years down the line where they have a surpluse and it spend spend spend and all of a sudden debt for a 3rd time. This is what happend to Ireland. The SU needes to fix this within they budget if they what to make sure it doesn't happen again. They need to make people accountable for their actions.

Ideally, measures would be implemented now to ensure something like this can't happen again, BEFORE any reallocation was done. Yes, those that are responsible for this mess need to be held accountable.

yuppy700

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Very true, but at the moment, expenditure is artificially inflated because there're debts to be serviced. If money was reallocated from the capitation, it would help pay back the debt quicker, thus reducing expenditure in a way that would not result in the loss of core services or staff cuts.

I do take your point though that the SU does need to tighten up spending.

Whats with this vendetta you have against clubs and societies ??? Don't start looking at them as some cash cow you can dip into just to get the Drumroe shop re-opened. It closed because it wasnt making a profit. End of story. Clubs and socs money is not the answer to the SU debt. Why don't you just go to the larger shop in the courtyard and spend your money there ? I'm no expert in business but I think it is safe to say that more people spending money in your shop decreases loss or improves profit, or as tesco would say "every little helps". You can't seriously talk about realocating capitation money because walking is an inconvenience for you.

wnolan1992 wrote: »

now the SU will be lucky if I spend any money on their services at just because it's inconvenient to walk all the way to the SU courtyard for a frozen pizza or a bag of Tayto or something small like that.

Do you remember typing that in the drumroe shop thread. Here's the link. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526917

here's the post too.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76678974&postcount=3

Some people.....

Why do you think that clubs and socs should pay for the shops when you yourself are unwilling to walk five minutes to buy a pack of tayto's or a pizza and help put some money back into the union ?

wnolan1992

yuppy700 wrote: »

Whats with this vendetta you have against clubs and societies ??? Don't start looking at them as some cash cow you can dip into just to get the Drumroe shop re-opened. It closed because it wasnt making a profit. End of story. Clubs and socs money is not the answer to the SU debt. Why don't you just go to the larger shop in the courtyard and spend your money there ? I'm no expert in business but I think it is safe to say that more people spending money in your shop decreases loss or improves profit, or as tesco would say "every little helps". You can't seriously talk about realocating capitation money because walking is an inconvenience for you.



Do you remember typing that in the drumroe shop thread. Here's the link. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526917

here's the post too.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76678974&postcount=3

Some people.....

Why do you think that clubs and socs should pay for the shops when you yourself are unwilling to walk five minutes to buy a pack of tayto's or a pizza and help put some money back into the union ?

I don't believe I've ever said that the capitation should be reallocated to re-open Dromroe. In fact, re-opening Dromroe hasn't been in my mind since learning the full extent of the situation at the EGM, so I think you're misinterpreting my points.

I do not have a "vendetta against clubs and socs", C&S are a great example of how to manage things well. I am merely saying that I believe it is preferable to reallocate capitation to avoid loss of core services provided by SU in the short term future. I can't make my point of view any clearer without repeating myself, so please read some of my other posts.

To address the post from the other thread, yes, I do remember typing it. I believe it was done on the night the shop closed, so it was a gut reaction. And I stand by what I said, I won't walk to the courtyard for a pack of Tayto, as I can do without it, whereas I would have called into Dromroe on my way back from lecturers as it was convenient.

Jester252

What are the core services that you dont what to see cut

wnolan1992

Jester252 wrote: »

What ate the core services that you dont what to see cut.

No particular order of importance, off the top of my head:

An Focal. (cuts could/should be made, but I'd hate to see it go completely out of print for money's sake)
The Sabbatical Team - We've already lost two, I'd hate to see it reduced further if things don't pick up.
SU Building open until 11.
SU Shop open until 9-10 (can't remember which)
NiteLink (although if this is sponsored then I guess it's in danger)
Ents Manager
Cheaper photocopying/printing.

OhMSGlive

wnolan1992 wrote: »

SU Shop open until 9-10 (can't remember which)

9pm.

ninty9er

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Very true, but at the moment, expenditure is artificially inflated because there're debts to be serviced. If money was reallocated from the capitation, it would help pay back the debt quicker.

Not really. ULSU, as already stated, doesn't have any significant debt to speak of.

Jester252

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Jester252 wrote: »

What ate the core services that you dont what to see cut.

No particular order of importance, off the top of my head:

An Focal. (cuts could/should be made, but I'd hate to see it go completely out of print for money's sake)
The Sabbatical Team - We've already lost two, I'd hate to see it reduced further if things don't pick up.
SU Building open until 11.
SU Shop open until 9-10 (can't remember which)
NiteLink (although if this is sponsored then I guess it's in danger)
Ents Manager
Cheaper photocopying/printing.

University will not have no shop on the campus
Photocopying is not a core services if it goes pay a little more
Can sabbat lock up they work they until the wee hours of the morning
The two sabbats lost rep issues not money. Pay cut needed.
An Focal will have cuts.
Ent manger will only go as a last option

yuppy700

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I do not have a "vendetta against clubs and socs", C&S are a great example of how to manage things well. I am merely saying that I believe it is preferable to reallocate capitation to avoid loss of core services provided by SU in the short term future. I can't make my point of view any clearer without repeating myself, so please read some of my other posts.

To address the post from the other thread, yes, I do remember typing it. I believe it was done on the night the shop closed, so it was a gut reaction. And I stand by what I said, I won't walk to the courtyard for a pack of Tayto, as I can do without it, whereas I would have called into Dromroe on my way back from lecturers as it was convenient.

You mean to say that you will only support the Students' Union if the opportunity arises while you are on your way home ? How noble of you...

Also i wouldn't deem some of the services you listed as core services.

wnolan1992 wrote: »

No particular order of importance, off the top of my head:

An Focal. (cuts could/should be made, but I'd hate to see it go completely out of print for money's sake)

anfocal.ie is important. The print edition, not so much. The number of print editions should be greatly reduced to save money. You don't seem to realise that the reason we are having this conversation is for money's sake. I would be strongly opposed to realocating the capitation just to save a newspaper that I don't read. I get most of my news online anyway. E.g www.thomondstudenttimes.com www.anfocal.ie

The Sabbatical Team - We've already lost two, I'd hate to see it reduced further if things don't pick up.

And clubs and socs should foot the bill because ?
We only lost the CSO because of the money. I thought that the comms office got the chop over no longer being representational of the students or something like that.

SU Building open until 11

Nah, it could afford to close sooner. I could live with it being open till 10 or even 9. I think that has probably been the latest I have been in there and even then it was only to get the stables sticker. I would gladly get my business conducted in there earlier if it meant not having to realocate the capitation.

SU Shop open until 9-10 (can't remember which)

Nah, Roll it back an hour to 8pm. 8:30am-8:00pm is ample time for someone to get something from the shop. That's over 11 hrs!

Anyway why would you give a toss about the SU Shop ? Surely they will be lucky to have your custom again after closing drumroe.

The capitation doesnt need to be changed to keep the opening hours of the shop extended.

NiteLink (although if this is sponsored then I guess it's in danger)

I can't bad mouth the Nitelink. Have used it many a time to get a lift to the lodge. Would be terrible to lose it. This is one point worthy of consideration of realocation of the capitation.

Cheaper photocopying/printing.

The SU doesn't do cheaper printing. Only photocopying. Anyway how much photocopying are you doing that you can't afford the extra 2 cent a page ? You should be able to afford it considering that you don't buy pizza or taytos anymore.

Realocating the capitation to save money on printing ? Stop going off the top of your head and think before you post. The adults among us are trying to have a discussion

Ents Manager

A second valid point ! I knew you had it in you. This and the nitelink would be the only 2 things on your list of core services that I support shouldn't be changed or a least merit the consideration of realocating the capitation. Get rid of the ents manager and you are starting to talk about redundancies. I have never had to do it but I bet it is pretty ****ty having to fill out a P45 and then going home telling your family that you can't pay the mortgage or afford the rent.


wnolan : You don't seem to understand any of what's going on. Either that or you are just an incredibly self centred individual. This is a very inconvenient (and that is putting it softly)situation that the SU are in and realocating the capitation for convenience is downright selfish.

wnolan1992

ninty9er wrote: »

Not really. ULSU, as already stated, doesn't have any significant debt to speak of.

Sorry if I misunderstood when Philip Mudge said that "repaying debts was factored into the budget" during the EGM. I took that to mean that the SU was spending money to service debts, and this money was adding to gap that needs to be closed between income and expenditure.

yuppy700 wrote: »

You mean to say that you will only support the Students' Union if the opportunity arises while you are on your way home ? How noble of you...

No yuppy, that's not what I said and you know it. What I meant was that I wouldn't impulse buy as much as I did when I passed by the shop. And it was you that brought the shop back into this anyway, not me.

Also i wouldn't deem some of the services you listed as core services.

Neither would I, those were just the ones I could come up with off the top of my head (as I said in the post).

anfocal.ie is important. The print edition, not so much. The number of print editions should be greatly reduced to save money. You don't seem to realise that the reason we are having this conversation is for money's sake. I would be strongly opposed to realocating the capitation just to save a newspaper that I don't read. I get most of my news online anyway. E.g www.thomondstudenttimes.com www.anfocal.ie

In one of my previous posts I basically made the same point about reducing print runs. What I was getting at, was that if it were a choice between getting rid of all print version of AF, then I would prefer reallocation of capitation to be looked into.

Nah, it could afford to close sooner. I could live with it being open till 10 or even 9. I think that has probably been the latest I have been in there and even then it was only to get the stables sticker. I would gladly get my business conducted in there earlier if it meant not having to realocate the capitation.

I was led to believe that Clubs and Socs hold meetings in there. (or workshops, etc in the case of some C+S's), so the extra 2 hours of breathing space is pretty useful. But I'm willing to concede that maybe as a last resort closing earlier would be an option.

Nah, Roll it back an hour to 8pm. 8:30am-8:00pm is ample time for someone to get something from the shop. That's over 11 hrs!

You'd think, yet every time I pass the place at 8:50pm there generally seems to be a pretty big crowd there still.

Anyway why would you give a toss about the SU Shop ? Surely they will be lucky to have your custom again after closing drumroe.

Don't see how it matters whether I personally use the service or not. There're 12000+ other students in UL that might like to have the option.

wnolan : You don't seem to understand any of what's going on.

I wouldn't claim to understand everything, so I guess it's lucky I'm just giving my opinion on stuff on a forum rather than running for office.

Either that or you are just an incredibly self centred individual.

If I come across as such, then I apologise. I can assure you it's not intentional.

cambridge

ninty9er wrote: »

Not really. ULSU, as already stated, doesn't have any significant debt to speak of.

what are you like derek? The ulsu services debt is the SU's debt, stop trying to be pedantic and obfuscate the real issues.

Steeevvyb

Hi everyone,

If you left the EGM early and missed Paddy dealing with certain allegations on this website last week. We have the recording of all the fun in low quality Mp3. Audio gets better about 3 minutes in when Paddy starts. http://soundcloud.com/stephen-byrne-2/paddy-rockett

Stephen Byrne
TST

wnolan1992

Steeevvyb wrote: »

Hi everyone,

If you left the EGM early and missed Paddy dealing with certain allegations on this website last week. We have the recording of all the fun in low quality Mp3. Audio gets better about 3 minutes in when Paddy starts. http://soundcloud.com/stephen-byrne-2/paddy-rockett

Stephen Byrne
TST

Nice one.