Civil Law

iamanengine

I'm currently in leaving cert hoping to do civil law if i get the points (440) and was just wondering if anyone could give me some information on the criminal law side of things e.g. is it interesting and is there much business involved in the course?i didn't do business for the leaving cert and am not that bothered with it

Lockstep

Criminal law is one module that you do over a year. Other than that, you're doing a lot of different modules like equity, European law, admin law and so on. You have a fair bit of leeway in what modules you pick.

atticusfrost

Howdy,

I recently graduated from the BCL and can tell you that if you don't like business orientated modules, you can minimise the amount of business modules you do. You have to do Contract law and Company Law as mandatory modules in first and second year. In second and third year you have more leeway to choose your way and the selection is fairly decent; for example I hated commercial law subjects so I did things like Human Rights, LAw of the Sea and Evidence.

If you have an interest in law and in different areas of law then the BCL is a good choice. Good lecturers and good supports in the law school and I really can't rate them higher.

Best of luck in your choices whatever you choose.

All the best,
AF

iamanengine

hmm,i do like the sound of it,thanks il probably go for that as my 1st choice now

fseoighe

I'm in 2nd Civil law atm, and in all likelihoods you wont touch the criminal side of things until second year.

First year is primarily about grasping the basic fundamentals of the legal system.
You will most likely study Tort("civil" law, issues between individuals), Constitutional Law, Contract Law and Legal Research.

Anyway, good choice... Its a very enjoyable course.

Good luck with the LC!

iamanengine

Thanks Does anyone have any information in regards to is the course recognised abroad?as in can i get to America and will my degree be recognised?would i have to start all over or just sit an exam?

fseoighe

Well, that all deppends on what you want to do after college.

If a professional quailification is on your mind (kings inns/ blackhall place), then you will have to pass the bar in whichever juristiction you wish to work.

If this isn't on your mind, then this is a very good degree for either further study or to enter employment.

I can say this though, this is a degree based on the common law system (ie ireland, england & wales, the states) and it will be more recognised in these juristictions that in civil law countries (scotland and europe for example).

Hope this helps, and dont hesitate to ask anymore questions, i wish i had someone who knew something about law when i was filling out my cao!

iamanengine

fseoighe wrote: »

Well, that all deppends on what you want to do after college.

If a professional quailification is on your mind (kings inns/ blackhall place), then you will have to pass the bar in whichever juristiction you wish to work.

If this isn't on your mind, then this is a very good degree for either further study or to enter employment.

I can say this though, this is a degree based on the common law system (ie ireland, england & wales, the states) and it will be more recognised in these juristictions that in civil law countries (scotland and europe for example).

Hope this helps, and dont hesitate to ask anymore questions, i wish i had someone who knew something about law when i was filling out my cao!

haha thank you so much!well at the end of it all i basically want to become a barrister in america. my mam was trying to put me off doing law in college she said an irish law degree is no good for getting work in america. is this true? do you know what you have to do to become a lawyer in america with an irish degree?

also do you know are there good career opportunities as a barrister in ireland?she said its a very tight knit community and unless your from a law background you basically screwed

fseoighe

Actually, a Irish law degree is a very good degree for practising in America.

With this degree, you can sit the for the bar in either the state of New York or California.

American legal firms love European students, and even more if you study a language. You can study French, Italian, and Spanish (last time I checked) with you law degree in NUIG, .

Friary Law, in Dublin: http://www.friarylaw.ie/
they will help you prepare for the New York Bar, and give a talk in NUIG every year.

One thing though, the legal profession is not split, as it is in Ireland.
You pass the bar, and you will become an Attorney-at-Law (Barrister and solicitor merged)!

I might be completely wrong, but I have a strong feeling that only California and New York accept Irish/European student to the bar.

In contrast to Ireland, passing the bar is all that is needed to become qualified. In kins inns or Blackhall, you have to do up too 2 years unpaid work experience before you are admitted, so it might be worth your while to do your degree in Galway then move straight towards getting to the bar in the states.

BTW: Each state in the US is a different jurisdiction, so if your qualified to practice in NY, that only allows you to practise in NY. To practise in any other state you must pass the bar in that state.

Sorry for rambling on, but i hope this helps in some way!!!

fseoighe

Hey, i didnt see the second part of your post there, sorry

Well, I hope to qualify as a barrister after the BCL, and I know absolutely no one in the legal profession

It is a big help, no doubt about it, if your father is a Barrister working for a big firm, and your mother is a Supreme Court Judge, but if you are serious about it then it doesn't matter. It will be harder, and you will have people doing the course with you that will have all the connections, and get all the internships, and get a job straight after college.

But, in the end, it is all about the work you put in.

There's a person in my year who's Grand Mother was a Supreme Court Judge, and I will guarantee you she will walk into a firm straight after college.

Alot of the legal profession, especially barristers, is networking. You have to almost bring in all your own cases.

--- Ok the economy is F#@$ed, and we cant do anything about that, and there are alot of unemployed layers out there, but all you have to have in your mind is that it will be a different world in 5 years when your qualified.

Don't worry about things like that until you are in that position because until then you can do absolutely nothing about it.....

If you really want something go for it, and succeed, never mind what is happening in the world.....

iamanengine

thank you so much!thats seriously good news and what i needed to hear!fully sure i want to get civil law now,really good information thanks again

iamanengine

also one last thing,so your saying to go to america and sit the bar i would just need the law degree?i wouldnt need to go to kings in or devel for a year?

Raisins

iamanengine wrote: »

also one last thing,so your saying to go to america and sit the bar i would just need the law degree?i wouldnt need to go to kings in or devel for a year?

No your BCL will qualify you for the NY Bar.

My advice is that you are thinking way to far ahead. Decide whether you want to study law first and then consider your career options after that. You might well change your mind and want to be a solicitor or work somewhere else once you enter the degree. The BCL is a very good starting point and that's the most important thing. All options are on the table from there.

iamanengine

Thanks, yeah i know that is extremely far ahead it's just that that is a route i'm interested in and just wanted to make sure it was at least an option. On another note though i have mocks tomorrow and seriously wondering if i'll be able to get the 450 Panic attacks, not good!

But besides that thanks for the advice. At the moment being a solicitor doesn't appeal to me but in a few years who knows.

Raisins

I'm sure you'll be fine. Just in case though make sure to have Arts down as second choice so that you can still do law through Arts. Doing a BA and then doing a one year LLB is a very good option too.

Best of luck.

Lockstep

Raisins wrote: »

I'm sure you'll be fine. Just in case though make sure to have Arts down as second choice so that you can still do law through Arts. Doing a BA and then doing a one year LLB is a very good option too.

Best of luck.

Yup, that's what I'm doing.

If you're dead set on doing law, the BCL is a great option. If you're interested in mixing it up a bit, then the BA is a good option as you can then do the one year LLB to round off your legal education and get the full qualification.

iamanengine

Yeah i do have arts down just in case

Lockstep wrote: »

Yup, that's what I'm doing.

If you're dead set on doing law, the BCL is a great option. If you're interested in mixing it up a bit, then the BA is a good option as you can then do the one year LLB to round off your legal education and get the full qualification.

Is there much competition that way? As only the top 100 can go through to 2nd year if i'm right? Just worried i won't make the cut if it's really competitive?

tiger_cub

Don't forget about the B Corp programme either there Iamengine. I did the BCL and while it is a great course I feel the BCorp programme gives graduates more employment opportunities the way things are right now.

iamanengine

Your probably right but isn't that more business orientated? Also i heard there's accountancy as one of the modules? I'm not very business orientated haha

Lockstep

iamanengine wrote: »

Is there much competition that way? As only the top 100 can go through to 2nd year if i'm right? Just worried i won't make the cut if it's really competitive?

Depends really. There's quite a high failure rate IIRC but when I did it, everyone who passed the year got onto the 2nd year (the dropout rate is quite high as a load of people start it, realise they can;t hack it and drop out). I got a 65 and came 2nd in the year for first year which gives you an idea of harsh it can be, it gets much much better after first year though as they're effectively weeding people out.
If you complete the BA in Legal Science, you're automatically enrolled on the LLB programme unless you tell them otherwise. So basically, if you get into the 2nd year BA and can graduate, then you're sound.

Corporate law is also an option. It's very similar to the BA in Legal Science but instead of law with an arts subject, it's law with business. You still need to do the LLB at the end of it to have a recognised law degree. If you're interested in the business end of things, it's a great choice, or you can mix law with something like history, English, economics or politics.

iamanengine

65 percent? and came second? wow the exams must have been pretty ridiculous then? Also yeah corporate law does't really appeal to me so it's lookin like either through arts or civil law. Either way leads to the LLB so all good, would a post grad be a good idea? I know miles ahead of myself but just wondering

Lockstep

iamanengine wrote: »

65 percent? and came second? wow the exams must have been pretty ridiculous then? Also yeah corporate law does't really appeal to me so it's lookin like either through arts or civil law. Either way leads to the LLB so all good, would a post grad be a good idea? I know miles ahead of myself but just wondering

It gets a lot easier after first year (keep in mind university marks are very different to school), a pass s 40% and an A is anything above 70% so percentages don't work the way they do in school. I got a 1st Class Honours (70%+) in my BA which isn't a 70% in school!

If you do Legal Science you do 4 subjects in first year (I did history, sociology/politics, Legal Science and archaeology) and kept on Legal Science and History. You do contract law and Irish legal systems (or you did when I did it) then in second year you do Tort and Constitutional Law before doing Criminal Law, EU Law and Company Law in Final year. You also have some optional modules along the way (I did international human rights law and the law of the sea but there's other options like health law and media law)
You can also do Erasmus at a European or North American university. I went to Leuven in Belgium and did a load of EU and international law subjects. It's a great way to round out your legal education.
If you like the look of another arts subject, Legal Science is a good idea if you're like me and were desperate to mix law with something you have a deep personal interest in.
I'm currently doing the LLB and am weighing up which masters to take (I just got accepted to an LLM in the Netherlands and one in the UK) so if you've any specific questions, I'd be happy to help out. I never intended keeping Legal Science past first year so it's a pleasantly surprising route to go down.


If you're interested in pure law, I'd definetly reccomend the BCL as well as you can finish it a year quicker than the BA/LLB combo so really it's up to you. You'll be doing similar law courses anyway, although Arts is a fair bit lower in points.

cat_xx

65% would be regarded as a good result in law exams, examiners don't usually give out more than 75%

iamanengine

Wow college exams sound a lot more difficult then in secondary school!! Nice one though LLM in Netherlands that would be a blast. Thanks you've helped a tonne, at the moment i'm aiming for the BCL but i'd still be happy going the arts route. Also you have to just pass all your other arts subjects is that right?

Edit : How did you find sociology and history as well? As i'd be interested as doing them as the other subjects.

Lockstep

I'd say you'll be fine. If you're dead set on law, the BCL is very handy and even then you can put down the BA as backup.

I loved soc/pol and history. Would have kept them both on if I could. In first year, they're both very introductory bbut you can specialise a lot more after first year. For example, there's history courses on everything from military history to the Troubles to Native American history. Likewise, Soc/Pol allows you to do everything from international relations to the sociology of war.

Basically: BCL is perfect if you know you want to do law. If you're unsure or are worried about points, the BA is an excellent option.

paperpackages

Raisins wrote: »

I'm sure you'll be fine. Just in case though make sure to have Arts down as second choice so that you can still do law through Arts.

Reading this I'd also recommend putting Public and Social Policy down, even before Arts. If you're set on a career in law, it's a very law based course. I'm in my first year of it so ask if you want any more info

Lockstep

PSP is a very good course (essentially you cover a mix of law, economics, sociology and politics subjects) giving you grounding in complementary areas
.
However, if you know you want to do law, Legal Science or Corporate Law would be a better option: the LLB is two years long for PSP students and one year for LS/CL students, given they cover more law during their undergrad.
End result is the same, just that LS/CL enables you to do get the qualification a year quicker/for €6000 less.

iamanengine

PSP sounds good but it seems more direct and cheaper to go through arts? Does PSP have much of a focus on law? I would have thought it more direct then arts. How long is that course?

Also thanks a tonne for the help it's really helped.

THEMRMONGOOSE

Does anyone know if the points for civil law will drop a bit from 450? I got 445 last year and I'm considering doing it as well because it seems like a good course.

Lockstep

iamanengine wrote: »

PSP sounds good but it seems more direct and cheaper to go through arts? Does PSP have much of a focus on law? I would have thought it more direct then arts. How long is that course?

Also thanks a tonne for the help it's really helped.

PSP is an arts degree but one where you essentially do 1/3 law, 1/3 Soc/Pol and 1/3 economics instead of 50% in two subjects.

It's a more indirect way of getting into law (for example, the LLB is two years long for PSP students and it's not an automatic entry as it is for Legal Science/Corporate Law students)
Basically, it has its own advantages and disadvantages. If you (for example) plan on going into policy-making or politics, PSP and the LLB is an excellent choice as you get the law qualification as well as grounding in economics and sociology/politics.
If you want to be a lawyer, LS/CL are more direct.

Basically to get a law qualification:
You can get a BCL (3 years)
You can do a BA in LS then the LLB (4 years)
You can do a B.Corp then the LLB (4 years)
You can do Commerce then the LLB (5 years)
You can do a BA in PSP then the LLB (5 years)
Keep in mind you can also do a year abroad for any of these degrees, so just add on a year to any of the above: I did a BA International and am now doing the LLB so it's taken me 5 years for example.

THEMRMONGOOSE wrote: »

Does anyone know if the points for civil law will drop a bit from 450? I got 445 last year and I'm considering doing it as well because it seems like a good course.

Hard to say, given the current difficulties in the legal profession it is very possible. It's certainly not guaranteed though, but there's no harm in putting it in on your CAO.

minimary

I want to do the B.Corp Intl. and then hope to do the New York Bar, I know its better to do the LLB afterwards can you be eligible for the New York bar without it?