How do I get .308 rifle without Deer Licence

shooter69

Hi All, New to posting but long time reader.. I have a .223 and Sako .17HMr and would like to now upgrade to .308 (preferably TRg 22 or the like.) my problem is this: Most supers Im told want you to show a deer licence before they will let you have a .308 cert..im going for my HCAP but am told that the coillte tenders for shooting are thin on the ground. Is it better to join a club like National shooting centre and apply that way? At least then I can get used to the rifle before I take the HCAP course... Im in North county Dublin so no Deer or land big enough to take that route on the application..:(

Any suggestions welcome...:)

johngalway

Target shooting if you're not shooting deer, AFAIK.

garv123

pay for a range big that you can use a .308 in.

Or get in the car, and drive around to farmers away from where you live, introduce yourself to them and ask for permission to shoot deer on their land.

Cant you use the same farmers gave you permission for the hmr and 223?

juice1304

if you can't shoot it whats the point in having it? if i were you i'd join midlands if i wanted to shoot untill i got my permission sorted.
our super dose'nt like high power rifles might i add.

Gonzor

Without meaning to derail the thread, if a person joined the midlands and was refused the licence could they cancel the membership since its of no benefit to them?

Gonzor

Also for shooter69, I dont know if this would work but ya never know

If you havent got the deer licence maybe you could see about getting a section 42 with your name on it and then use that as your reason. I know thats what I'd be looking into if I was in your shoes.

dev110

Gonzor wrote: »

If you havent got the deer licence maybe you could see about getting a section 42 with your name on it and then use that as your reason. I know thats what I'd be looking into if I was in your shoes.

As far as I know you need to have a deer licence before you can be nominated on a Section 42

Gonzor

dev110 wrote: »

As far as I know you need to have a deer licence before you can be nominated on a Section 42

I guess thats the end of the section 42 idea..!!

EDIT: Now, anyone any ideas on cancelling membership at the midlands upon refusal of a FAC.?

shooter69

garv123 wrote: »

pay for a range big that you can use a .308 in.

Or get in the car, and drive around to farmers away from where you live, introduce yourself to them and ask for permission to shoot deer on their land.

Cant you use the same farmers gave you permission for the hmr and 223?

Thanks garv123, I think you can't use same farmers ..the local land has no deer and no chance of getting it.. Might try some farmers further from home..wouldn't know where to start though!!

4gun

Have a drive around and meet up with some farmers where you see the deer warning signs, the huge majority WILL give you permission,as they consider deer to be the biggest nuisance on their land,
FARMERS DONT BITE !
I know down here in kerry every one we ever asked told us to work away and advised us to when and where the deer are about

Apply for a deer license and away you go,

or you can go and join a range 600eu or there a bouts for the first year in the midlands
If you want to target shoot as well, you may consider it money well spent

Tackleberrywho

shooter69 wrote: »

Thanks garv123, I think you can't use same farmers ..the local land has no deer and no chance of getting it.. Might try some farmers further from home..wouldn't know where to start though!!

Red Deer in Slane just up the road from Balbriggan North Co Dublin.
You may get out on shanks mare

I'd think about the rifle you are considering buying though, the Rifle is not very suitable for target work with a 26" barrel (most .308 Target rifles are 32" to maximise Muzzle velocity), and very heavy for hunting.

I would not get a stalking rifle with a barrel longer than 24", my current one is 21" including the chamber and that is really well balanced.

dev110

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I'd think about the rifle you are considering buying though, the Rifle is not very suitable for target work with a 26" barrel (most .308 Target rifles are 32" to maximise Muzzle velocity), and very heavy for hunting.

It depends on the distance he was thinking on shooting.
30-32" for 800-1000 yards to be competitive but there are lads who ran the 26" TRG out to 1000 yards with no trouble.

If he was just shooting to 300-600 yards as practice for deer stalking it would be perfect.

garv123

shooter69 wrote: »

Thanks garv123, I think you can't use same farmers ..the local land has no deer and no chance of getting it.. Might try some farmers further from home..wouldn't know where to start though!!

One of the lads used the same permissions for all three of his guns and deer licence with no bother. They might not even check if there is deer on the area you have down. you can stick them down and get another permission with deer on it around where tack said.

poulo6.5

shooter69 wrote: »

Hi All, New to posting but long time reader.. I have a .223 and Sako .17HMr and would like to now upgrade to .308 (preferably TRg 22 or the like.) my problem is this: Most supers Im told want you to show a deer licence before they will let you have a .308 cert..im going for my HCAP but am told that the coillte tenders for shooting are thin on the ground. Is it better to join a club like National shooting centre and apply that way? At least then I can get used to the rifle before I take the HCAP course... Im in North county Dublin so no Deer or land big enough to take that route on the application..:(

Any suggestions welcome...:)

first of all do you want to take up deer stalking or do you want to take up target shooting.
if you want to start deer stalking you will need to have a hunters license. in order to get a hunters license you will need to either get a coillte let or get up of your ass and get out there. i know there are plenty of deer all around you if you are really interested in deer stalking you will make it your business to find out where they are.
if its target shooting you want the .308 for then join a range.

Gonzor wrote: »

Also for shooter69, I dont know if this would work but ya never know

If you havent got the deer licence maybe you could see about getting a section 42 with your name on it and then use that as your reason. I know thats what I'd be looking into if I was in your shoes.

you must have a deer hunters license in order to be a nominated stalker on a section 42, that would mean the farmer would apply for a section 42 and put your name on it.
that would bring us back to square one, the op needs to get out there and press the flesh.

shooter69 wrote: »

Thanks garv123, I think you can't use same farmers ..the local land has no deer and no chance of getting it.. Might try some farmers further from home..wouldn't know where to start though!!

they will check up on new applicants and where they put down as their permissions. if there are no deer on the land they will know.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Red Deer in Slane just up the road from Balbriggan North Co Dublin.
You may get out on shanks mare

I'd think about the rifle you are considering buying though, the Rifle is not very suitable for target work with a 26" barrel (most .308 Target rifles are 32" to maximise Muzzle velocity), and very heavy for hunting.

I would not get a stalking rifle with a barrel longer than 24", my current one is 21" including the chamber and that is really well balanced.

as tack said above there are some fine deer not to far away from you.
but if you want to get a rifle for both deer and target, they are two different types of shooting. a handy stalking rifle is short and light and a dedicated target rifle is long and heavy.
if you want to do both you can but you will have to compromise, ie, get a 24"-26" medium weight barrel might be good for both.
the thing is it will be heavy to carry around stalking but you will be able to do it and to short to be competitive but you will still be able to do it.

my preference is deer stalking so i bought a rifle with a 22" barrel, but yesterday i was with a lad doing a bit of target practice out to 800y so you can still have a bit of crack with a short barrel.

any way best of luck with your application and dont be shy. get out there and find the deer spots and knock on doors.

shooter69

Cheers for all the help guys, much appreciated. Want to shoot deer but also want to target practice (to hone my skills on .308 as its a big step up from a .17!) will adopt the knock on doors policy over weekend and see if I can get some farmers to help me out. Would two permissions be enough ?

Tack - point taken on the barrel length - ultimately want to shoot deer rather than target..

Will let you know how I get on..Now who do i know in Slane...:D

Tackleberrywho

shooter69 wrote: »

Cheers for all the help guys, much appreciated. Want to shoot deer but also want to target practice (to hone my skills on .308 as its a big step up from a .17!) will adopt the knock on doors policy over weekend and see if I can get some farmers to help me out. Would two permissions be enough ?

Tack - point taken on the barrel length - ultimately want to shoot deer rather than target..

Will let you know how I get on..Now who do i know in Slane...:D

1 farmer is enough if he has enough deer on his land. Some parts of Ireland you would get a deer stalking permit on 20acres that was infested with deer, others you would need 100 acres where there are deer on the land the odd time and so forth.

This guy will give you a ballpark on prices.

A TRG is the price of two stalking rifles so I would never advise a novice to get one for stalking or Target shooting.
There are better starter rifles for a fraction of the price.

"If" money is no object, have a look at Blaser, http://www.blaser-usa.com/R8-Professional.1050.0.html

shooter69

Cheers Tack, many thanks for advice, the blaser looks tasty! As we're on the subject what would you advise to go for in a .308 if I get licence

Cass

Gonzor wrote: »

Without meaning to derail the thread, if a person joined the midlands and was refused the licence could they cancel the membership since its of no benefit to them?

No.

You pay membership to shoot on the range, as with any range, so why would they refund you the money because you didn't get the license you wanted. Also i would be cautious of using a range to get a firearm if you have no intention of shooting on the range.

Every range is obliged to inform the Gardai/DoJ every 6 months of it's members, attendnce, etc. So if you joined to get a license, and did not attend the range then your reason for wanting/seeking the firearm no longer stands as valid.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

........ the Rifle is not very suitable for target work with a 26" barrel (most .308 Target rifles are 32" to maximise Muzzle velocity),

The rifle is perfectly sited for long distance target work. Having used one myself along with 4 other lads in FTR with no problems. Grnted a longer barrel will be more benficial, but a TRG will shoot 1,000 yards straght out of the box from the off. Ask dCorbus. Was holding some impressive scores with his before his swapped out for the longer barrel.

and very heavy for hunting.

That much i agree with. At 14lb with scope & bipod its not an easy carry.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A TRG is the price of two stalking rifles so I would never advise a novice to get one for stalking or Target shooting.
There are better starter rifles for a fraction of the price.

New - yes. Second hand - No.

V bull has a lovely set up in the for sale section for an unbelievable price. Considering the rifle new can be more than he is looking for the entire set up.

Also as a cross over type rifle the TRg is a superb choice. Yes its heavy but not as heavy as say a Savage FTR with its 30" barrel. The Savage is over 12 piund without scope, bipod, etc. Plus the 30" barrel is a drawback for huting.

I've said before you will not get a rifle that does both types of shooting well. If you are lokking for a dedicated rifle for one or the other then go for one or the other. If you are looking for a rifle that does both then you need to makes allowances. As in heavy hunting rifle, but good for target. Or not great at anything over 800 yards for target shooting, but a light and good hunting rifle.

Tackleberrywho

shooter69 wrote: »

Cheers Tack, many thanks for advice, the blaser looks tasty! As we're on the subject what would you advise to go for in a .308 if I get licence

Sako
http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_24&products_id=153

Tikka
http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_24&products_id=164

to the cheaper Remington
http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_24&products_id=148

in that order for .308.
All are free floating pillar bedded light but very accurate

Blaser would be over €2600 entry level AFAIK

It wasn't me!

Don't know about the Blaser (though don't think so) but neither the Sako nor the Tikka come pillar bedded.

poulo6.5

short barrels can shoot out to 1000y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xesBYKRzqew

i dont have a video of my own to put up so i chose this one as it is a genuine video and he is using a 20" Remington sps tactical.

i will add that he is using his own loads tailored to suit his rifle. something we are not allowed to do over here as of yet

Tackleberrywho

A good remington in the right hands works well.
I would only get the free floated models which the sps tactical is according to their technical data.

My Remington VSSF II .223 came Pillar bedded and it was incredibly accurate with 55 grain ammo.
My VTR .308 came with a 20" barrel but the stock was poor.
I changed the stock around a bit and groups improved, I think the SPS Tactical is an underrated rifle, especially for stalking where you want to shoot deer out to moderate ranges with low(ish) powered stalking scopes.

I had a Sako 75, it was Free Floating, very acurate, cycled well; but was it worth the extra money??

I changed it as the rust spots that would not go away pee'ed me off (considering she was supposed to be all weather)
It was heavier than the Remington and only came in grey which I never really liked, but put up with.

tac foley

I have to admit that the country and western group singin' away on the firing point are a bit off-putting for me, but that is some great shooting.

As you can see, the .308Win still has plenty of oomph left at 1000yds.

I forgot to mention that I did something like this last year over in OR, with a 16" barrelled Desert Tactical Arms rifle and Hornady Match ammunition. About the same degree of success, too - at least, I missed as much as he did. The range was shorter though, at only 920 yards.

tac

Cass

poulo6.5 wrote: »

short barrels can shoot out to 1000y

Correct. Thats my point about the TRG............

Ezridax wrote: »

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

............ the Rifle is not very suitable for target work with a 26" barrel ..............

The rifle is perfectly sited for long distance target work. Having used one myself along with 4 other lads in FTR with no problems. Grnted a longer barrel will be more benficial, but a TRG will shoot 1,000 yards straght out of the box from the off..

Barrel length only comes into it when looking at dedicated target work. At this point as said above you need to decide if you want such a dedicated rifle for either target work or hunting. So if you want to do a bit of target work but mostly hunting then look at a hunter, join a range, and see what you can do with it, but do not expect to get the same results as a target rifle.

That video by poulo6.5 is rather refreshing. The lads in it were not afraid to show how they started well, but went to bits on the third string. Most any rifle will cover the distance, thats never the issue. The issue is consistant/repeatable results at those distances.

I think i'm starting to wander into target shooting talk at this point so maybe i should stop. If you (OP) are looking for a deer rifle then 1,000 yards will never be an issue for you. Nor should 900, 800, 600, etc. yards.

What you seem to want is a deer/hunting rifle. The Sako above is a good rifle, but at €1,900 is fairly expensive. Tikka, Remmy, Savage, CZ, etc are good rifles for little cost. Good for 300 yards, plus target shooting with factory ammo. Also you could buy one new with scope for the same price as the Sako (rifle) only. I still would not overlook a second hand rifle. All the gear, scope, etc already sorted for you for less than new price.

If you are considering membership of a range, and a bit of target shooting only for the purposes of getting the license, but do not intend to use the range i would advise against it. We all had to start somewhere, which involved knocking on doors, asking, begging, etc. If you would like to get into a bit of target shooting and progress into deer stalking later then by all means join a range.

Tackleberrywho

shooter69 wrote: »

Hi All, New to posting but long time reader.. I have a .223 and Sako .17HMr and would like to now upgrade to .308 (preferably TRg 22 or the like.) my problem is this: Most supers Im told want you to show a deer licence before they will let you have a .308 cert..im going for my HCAP but am told that the coillte tenders for shooting are thin on the ground. Is it better to join a club like National shooting centre and apply that way? At least then I can get used to the rifle before I take the HCAP course... Im in North county Dublin so no Deer or land big enough to take that route on the application..:(

Any suggestions welcome...:)

shooter69 wrote: »

Thanks garv123, I think you can't use same farmers ..the local land has no deer and no chance of getting it.. Might try some farmers further from home..wouldn't know where to start though!!

shooter69 wrote: »

Cheers for all the help guys, much appreciated. Want to shoot deer but also want to target practice (to hone my skills on .308 as its a big step up from a .17!) will adopt the knock on doors policy over weekend and see if I can get some farmers to help me out. Would two permissions be enough ?

Tack - point taken on the barrel length - ultimately want to shoot deer rather than target..

Will let you know how I get on..Now who do i know in Slane...:D

(this is the first time I tried multiquoting so I hope it works

Going from your info supplied, I'd consider swapping your .223 for a .243, you still require deer permit, still require €80 for a new application but you will have a Calibre well capable for all Irish deer, and yet an excellent foxer.
There is a Howa going in the forsale section for reasonable money, there are scopes also very appropriate for the calibre and use in the for sale section.

In 2011 I shot a deer on a friends permission in DUBLIN.
I was told there was no shooting in Dublin, all sewn up yada yada yada.
Meath is full of deer, if you are in the Rural North County Dublin, it's just up the road.
Drive into farmers yards and get a few more permissions.
Some Farmers will say no, some will say yes. Be nice and polite to all of them, even if they say no, I'd ask them is their any of their neighbours that may want foxes & Deer shot also, just in case.

The rifle you were asking about initially in the forsale question is brilliant value, being sold by a gent, in brilliant condition.........But in my opinion; not suitable for you.

I don't mean any offence by that, I just hate to see when people buy something and regret it as it was not what they thought it was going to be.

Stalking involves walking up hill and down dale, you will see very few guys who struggle to catch their breath walking up stairs out stalking,( I know I could improve my fitness and I do a lot of stalking/hillwalking)
So a nice tidy compact rifle is great, especially if you wish to use a moderator as a mod adds 4" approx to barrel length.
A 26" barrel with a 4" mod will catch every low branch as you walk under the tree line because you forget the rifle shouldered is well above your head height.

Gonzor

Ezridax wrote: »

No.

You pay membership to shoot on the range, as with any range, so why would they refund you the money because you didn't get the license you wanted.

Maybe Im missing something here but if you dont get the licence then the membership is no good to ya

It wasn't me!

Gonzor wrote: »

Maybe Im missing something here but if you dont get the licence then the membership is no good to ya

No, but that's nothing to do with the range. You need the membership to support your application. Your acceptance of membership wouldn't be contingent on receiving the licence because the range has no responsibility for whether you get it or not. In any case, if you've got membership of a range suitable to use the firearm on, are of good character and the firearm is suitable for the purpose you propose to use it for, it's unlikely you'd be refused the licence, but your best bet is to speak to the super in advance of either joining the range or applying for the licence to gauge how they feel. If you shelled out 600 odd beans without doing all you could to make sure it would be what you needed to support your application, well, more fool you.

Cass

Why would you join a range?
To get the license for a gun unde the pretense of target shooting when you actually want it for deer stalking?

Thats a fraudulent application.

If you want to target shoot then join a range. If you use the range as a reason for getting another firearm then the range must support the caliber/type of firearm and the primary use of the firearm must be for target shooting.

If you want a rifle for deer stalking then put a deposit on a rifle, get land permissions, send away application with the rifle you are going to buy, and if successful then pay the balance.

My point is using a range to circumvent the process for getting a rifle because you don't have land permissions is wrong. As such the range have no obligation to refund you the money due to lack of a license or refusal of a new license. Its your choice to join or not to.

Gonzor

Ezridax wrote: »

Why would you join a range?
To get the license for a gun unde the pretense of target shooting when you actually want it for deer stalking?

Thats a fraudulent application.

If you want to target shoot then join a range. If you use the range as a reason for getting another firearm then the range must support the caliber/type of firearm and the primary use of the firearm must be for target shooting.

If you want a rifle for deer stalking then put a deposit on a rifle, get land permissions, send away application with the rifle you are going to buy, and if successful then pay the balance.

My point is using a range to circumvent the process for getting a rifle because you don't have land permissions is wrong. As such the range have no obligation to refund you the money due to lack of a license or refusal of a new license. Its your choice to join or not to.

I think you missed my point. I mean, say for somebody who has no firearms and is wanting to take up target shooting.

They join the midlands, apply for their first rifle. Then if they get refused the licence can they cancel the membership?

(Sorry to derail the thread like this )

clivej

When I wanted to get my .308 I had it mind like you to deer stalking a d target shooting. I was with the Midlands range at the time but the super still was asking about a deer license to get the license.
But got the Rolfe in the end ok

So with stalking and target shooting in mind I bought a Sako 75 laminated varmint in 308. It has a 24" fluted barrel and looks very good. I also have the sako synthetic stock that I put on for the stalking season as its just a little over 1lb lighter.

Easy enough to carry around the fields and forest at all up weight of 8lb

Cass

I cannot speak for the midlands so this is my opinion ONLY. I thought you were refering to what i was discussing above. If its the case of what you mention above then i'm sure there is some sort of compromise that could be reached.

However if you are in Dublin there are ranges closer that would suit a smallbore rifle. If you want a full bore for target shooting only then there are only a hanful of ranges, and with the new range SIs that list gets smaller. However i would be surprised to find someone refused without a valid reason or some previous occrance that prevented them from getting a license if it is for target shooting. I know of at least 7 people recently that have gotten their first license for a .308 for target shooting.