Shooting at night with a lamp

gearoidol

Can someone please explain whether it is legal to shoot rabbits/foxes at night with a lamp(dazzler) from inside the ditch with a 22 lr

kemen

60 feet from road/house, not out of a mechanically propelled vehicle dats it really i think

foxboy

gearoidol wrote: »

Can someone please explain whether it is legal to shoot rabbits/foxes at night with a lamp(dazzler) from inside the ditch with a 22 lr

nothing illegal about this
must be 60ft from the road and fire away from road
would also have to know the land very well to be sure of good backstops

Farmlife

kemen wrote: »

60 feet from road/house, not out of a mechanically propelled vehicle dats it really i think

Don't mean to change the subject, but how are you for pulling into a field, parking up and shooting from the back tray of a crew cab? would this still be classed of out of a MPV?

garv123

• You need permission from the landowner.
• Dont fire in the direction of a road, house or livestock.
• You cant shoot from a vehicle.
• As regards distance from road, everyone says different and the english law is 60 feet. Dont think it mentions it in irish law, but im sure you can use common sense.
• Caliber doesnt matter as long as you're sure of your backstops.

robbie mars

2nd garv

Vegeta

rgugliel wrote: »

Don't mean to change the subject, but how are you for pulling into a field, parking up and shooting from the back tray of a crew cab? would this still be classed of out of a MPV?

Could go against you if a Judge was so inclined.

To be 100% sure just step out and lay on the ground instead.

what a day

I shot a fox from road side ditch once, was standing beside the jeep which was parked in the hard shoulder. Just as i was about to pull the trigger a gardai car pulled up behind me:eek:. He just looked at my licnence and rifle and told us not to be shooting from the road into some ones land we dont have permission to shoot.

Vegeta

what a day wrote: »

I shot a fox from road side ditch once, was standing beside the jeep which was parked in the hard shoulder. Just as i was about to pull the trigger a gardai car pulled up behind me:eek:.

Must have been some shot if you hadn't even pulled the trigger.

He just looked at my licnence and rifle and told us not to be shooting from the road into some ones land we dont have permission to shoot.

Condoning illegal activity is against the charter so lets leave this one be ok. Any issues then PM me.

garv123

rgugliel wrote: »

Don't mean to change the subject, but how are you for pulling into a field, parking up and shooting from the back tray of a crew cab? would this still be classed of out of a MPV?

Ive seen on youtube before videos from ireland of people using the bonnet of jeeps as a rest in a field so I'm not sure myself. although 2 around here managed to crack their windscreens with .270's apparently.

johngalway

garv123 wrote: »

Ive seen on youtube before videos from ireland of people using the bonnet of jeeps as a rest in a field so I'm not sure myself. although 2 around here managed to crack their windscreens with .270's apparently.

:pac:

Oh I'd say there was a small bit of ribbing over that.

ronannee

Lamping of Foxes - The Legal Position

Section 45 of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000 amends Section 38 of the 1976 Act which applied to the use of lamps, mirrors, dazzling equipment etc., for the purposes of hunting. Section 38 of the '76 Act was substituted by this completely new Section. The amendment states that it will be illegal for any person to hunt any protected wild animal or protected wild bird while using a lamp, light, torch, mirror or other artificial dazzling device. Also prohibited are any devices for illuminating, image intensifying or heat seeking, night sights, or any device which the Minister may declare as coming within this category.

It will be lawful to use such devices while ringing or marking or while hunting for educational or scientific purposes under licence issued by the Minister. The Minister may amend or revoke an order made under this Section. The most important thing for hunting people to know about this Section is that the ban on the use of lamps and the other equipment mentioned, applies only to protected wild birds and protected wild animals. Therefore, contrary to what some people would assert, and have asserted in the past, even people in regulatory positions, it is not illegal to hunt by lamping foxes or rabbits, neither of which are protected and no licence is necessary. This is a question which comes up again and again. However, please note that while it is not illegal to lamp a fox or rabbit from a public road for the purposes of shooting, it most definitely is illegal to shoot from a road. In addition, it should be borne in mind that the use of a mechanically propelled vehicle may not be used for the purposes of hunting any wild animal, whether the vehicle is stationary or moving. Therefore a hunter must not be in any vehicle while lamping. (Section 44 Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000).

This has always been the case and this distinction needs to be emphasised here. The shot should be taken from inside the field and then at a distance of not less than 60 feet (measured in meters now) from the road and shooting away from the direction of the road. Legally, lamping and shooting are two distinctly different acts.



Taken from NARGC Website

Regards Ronan.

gearoidol

garv123 wrote: »

• You need permission from the landowner.
• Dont fire in the direction of a road, house or livestock.
• You cant shoot from a vehicle.
• As regards distance from road, everyone says different and the english law is 60 feet. Dont think it mentions it in irish law, but im sure you can use common sense.
• Caliber doesnt matter as long as you're sure of your backstops.

Told the uncle who shoots with years today that u are allowed shoot at night barring the above conditions and he point blank refused to believe me.He rang the local seargent in front of me and seargent said "absolutely nobody allowed shoot at night except wildlife rangers".

Where does that put me as i shoot in the same region as this seargent if he ever catches me out at night lamping?

garv123

gearoidol wrote: »

Told the uncle who shoots with years today that u are allowed shoot at night barring the above conditions and he point blank refused to believe me.He rang the local sarent in front of me and seargent said "absolutely nobody allowed shoot at night except wildlife rangers".

Where does that put me as i shoot in the same region as this seargent if he ever catches me out at night lamping?

What did your uncle disagree about?

Maybe the sergeant taught you meant shooting deer at night? Think some rangers have a section42 to do that.

But he is wrong saying you cant lamp at night. 110% wrong. If you speak to him again ask him to talk to his super or the fire arms officer they should correct him. If you meet him out theres no point causing hassle for yourself by arguing with him at night but you can always go into the station to sort it out the following day.

To be honest some guards dont know their ass from their elbow when it comes to firearms.

It is 100% legal to lamp rabbits and foxes on land you have permission on.

gearoidol

garv123 wrote: »

What did your uncle disagree about?

Maybe the sergeant taught you meant shooting deer at night? Think some rangers have a section42 to do that. on.

~The uncle is convinced you cannot shoot any gun at night full stop.

I was standing next to him when talking to local sergeant and he had phone on speaker and he clearly said noone can shoot at night ,he didnt specifically mention deer or anything

gearoidol

garv123 wrote: »

If you meet him out theres no point causing hassle for yourself by arguing with him at night but you can always go into the station to sort it out the following day.

good adivce here i think

bazza888

in fairness maybe your uncle only deer hunts or pheasant shoots the odd time,cause everyone knows espeicially if they have been shooting years that you can shoot at night for fox and rabbits

kildare.17hmr

You should show your uncle and the sgt the bit of legislation posted on the first page of this thread.

Garv is right tho alot of guards havent a clue when it comes to guns!

kemen

still cant work this out.

can u lamp out of a vehicle "legally"

kildare.17hmr

kemen wrote: »

still cant work this out.

can u lamp out of a vehicle "legally"

You can shine a lamp out of a vehicle no problem but to stay legal you need to go into the field to shoot(60 yards now mesured in meters or so they say)

landkeeper

no you can't

it should be borne in mind that the use of a mechanically propelled vehicle may not be used for the purposes of hunting any wild animal, whether the vehicle is stationary or moving. Therefore a hunter must not be in any vehicle while lamping. (Section 44 Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000).

kildare.17hmr

Hunting and shining a lamp are different things, was this not discussed here recently?

landkeeper

i was quoting the nargc

kildare.17hmr

Id like to see something thats not from nargc but written in law that says i cant shine a lamp into a field while from a vehicle.

Iv often driven past my permissions and had a scan of the fields to see if there is anything lurking around and gone in to shoot, have i broken the law doing that? I very much doubt it

landkeeper

pm;)

kildare.17hmr

Still not convinced lad,

disturb for the purpose of hunthing, i get that bit but i just seem to remember this being talked about before ether here or on IS and it went the other way. Cant find the thread now but ill have a look tomorrow

Vegeta

You cannot hunt from a vehicle. We all accept this bit I'm guessing

Section 36 of the Wildlife Act, 1976 as amended by Section 44 of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act, 2000 says the following:
Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section but subject to, section 42, a person shall not hunt or disturb for the purpose of hunting—

1. any protected wild animal by means of a mechanically-propelled vehicle, vessel or aircraft, whether it is being so propelled or is stationary,

Bits in red were removed in 2000 so it now reads:

"any wild animal by means of a mechanically-propelled vehicle, vessel or aircraft, whether it is being so propelled or is stationary"

So there can be no arguing that point I'd guess.

If you read the definitions in the act, found here

Hunting is defined as searching for(among other things).

When you shine a lamp you are searching for foxes, therefore hunting them.

meathstevie

Classic argument for the case that when one reads legislation he/she should also read the interpretation of it.

offalyvoere22

Hey sorry to hijack your tread. I live in tullamore and since im not from here and any1 i know here dosent own a gun exept me im looking for a shooting partner.iv permission on a few farms that have plenty of foxs. Have lamping gear to. Just taught id see whos about here cause its getting quite annoying shareing my gun with the people i bring.

Oh iv a voere 22lr hence the name

homerhop

According to a mis informed female garda in the Nass area it is illegal, and dare you say other wise because if you do so you are "getting smart" with her and saying that she doesnt know how to do her job.
I think lads should print off the NARGC web page that states lamping is not illegal and start carrying a copy with them when they go out.

meathstevie

No worries homerhop, there's also serious compensation to be gotten if you get arrested for a non-existent offence.

kildare.17hmr

Im yet to come accross this garda you speak of homer. Got a name? Pm me

offalyvoere22

gearoidol wrote: »

garv123 wrote: »

• You need permission from the landowner.
• Dont fire in the direction of a road, house or livestock.
• You cant shoot from a vehicle.
• As regards distance from road, everyone says different and the english law is 60 feet. Dont think it mentions it in irish law, but im sure you can use common sense.
• Caliber doesnt matter as long as you're sure of your backstops.

Told the uncle who shoots with years today that u are allowed shoot at night barring the above conditions and he point blank refused to believe me.He rang the local seargent in front of me and seargent said "absolutely nobody allowed shoot at night except wildlife rangers".

Where does that put me as i shoot in the same region as this seargent if he ever catches me out at night lamping?

When i applied my silencer i told the firearm officer i need it for shooting at nite and lamping.she said no problem work away.i think it depends on the garda

meathstevie

What it all boils down to is the simple fact that firearms regulations and their use is a fairly detailed field of knowledge that only represents a small fraction of a very busy Garda's workload.

As a consequence it's probably not a service priority either so every once in a while a bit of mutual understanding and courtesy goes a long way.

garv123

offalyvoere22 wrote: »

When i applied my silencer i told the firearm officer i need it for shooting at nite and lamping.she said no problem work away.i think it depends on the garda

Nope it doesnt, the garda in the Op's situation are wrong. Simples.

Ghost.

Two or three men in a vehicle.

What if the man holding the lamp from the vehicle is not in posession of his firearm? But another passenger in the same vehicle is in posession of his own firearm.

Sure the man with the lamp cannot be considered to be hunting as he has no firearm. And the man with the firearm cant be deemed to be using a lamp for hunting as he is not using a lamp.

Is that right or wrong?

Vegeta

Ghost. wrote: »

Two or three men in a vehicle.

What if the man holding the lamp from the vehicle is not in posession of his firearm? But another passenger in the same vehicle is in posession of his own firearm.

Sure the man with the lamp cannot be considered to be hunting as he has no firearm. And the man with the firearm cant be deemed to be using a lamp for hunting as he is not using a lamp.

Is that right or wrong?

Wrong unfortunately.

According to the definitions in the act, searching for fauna is considered hunting.

offalyvoere22

Vegeta wrote: »

Ghost. wrote: »

Two or three men in a vehicle.

What if the man holding the lamp from the vehicle is not in posession of his firearm? But another passenger in the same vehicle is in posession of his own firearm.

Sure the man with the lamp cannot be considered to be hunting as he has no firearm. And the man with the firearm cant be deemed to be using a lamp for hunting as he is not using a lamp.

Is that right or wrong?

Wrong unfortunately.

According to the definitions in the act, searching for fauna is considered hunting.

Tell me this,if im out lampin and garda happins to see the lamp and come over,dose he or she have the power to seize my firearm ?

garv123

offalyvoere22 wrote: »

Tell me this,if im out lampin and garda happins to see the lamp and come over,dose he or she have the power to seize my firearm ?

Are you breaking the law? or do they spot you in the middle of a field you have permission to be in?

offalyvoere22

garv123 wrote: »

offalyvoere22 wrote: »

Tell me this,if im out lampin and garda happins to see the lamp and come over,dose he or she have the power to seize my firearm ?

Are you breaking the law? or do they spot you in the middle of a field you have permission to be in?

Iv a legal firearm,legal silencer,permissions and no houses for well over 500 meters. Everyone has a differant answer to this question .evan the garda i deal with says work away but reading this tread she seems to be wrong. I just wanna know if they can seize my gun or not.cheers

Ghost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost.
Two or three men in a vehicle.

What if the man holding the lamp from the vehicle is not in posession of his firearm? But another passenger in the same vehicle is in posession of his own firearm.

Sure the man with the lamp cannot be considered to be hunting as he has no firearm. And the man with the firearm cant be deemed to be using a lamp for hunting as he is not using a lamp.

Is that right or wrong?

Wrong unfortunately.

According to the definitions in the act, searching for fauna is considered hunting.

So if what you say is correct, according to the definition of the act all bird watchers and nature watchers are in fact hunting!
As are any farmers checking their livestock at night with a lamp from a vehicle. They would technically be breaking the law if they did so from a vehicle.
It wouldnt surprise me if that was the case.

johngalway

offalyvoere22 wrote: »

Tell me this,if im out lampin and garda happins to see the lamp and come over,dose he or she have the power to seize my firearm ?

If you have:

Permission to be where you are.
All licenses in order.
Not doing something illegal like lamping deer etc.
Not shooting from the road.

Then I don't see how they can take it from you. I think you can be told to "move on" though.

I've been stopped a fair few times on my way to and fro by the long arm of the law, also while geared up in a field after crossing one field to another. Conversation usually goes like this:

Guard: Evenin, what ya at?
Me: Howdy, just out after a few foxes.
Guard: Have you got a license for that yoke?
Me: Yep, want to see it?
Guard: No/yes (usually no).
Guard: Who's land are you on:
Me: Joe Bloggs.
Guard: Does he know you're here at this?
Me: Yep.
Guard: You have a license for that?
Me: Yep, still have it Want to see it?
Guard: Ah, no, see any fox yet? There's a lad I see crossing the road regular near Seamus' house around 2am..... etc.

Once you're not acting the bollix out and about, and you're not acting the bollix with them they're grand.

Only sticky point is when someone else has been acting the bollix out and about and they're P'd off about calls to the station. Cos it's hard to prove you're not the bollix to a fella who see's lamping as only a nuisance.

As they say in the films "Just act normal" They're only out doing a job.

Cass

offalyvoere22 wrote: »

Tell me this,if im out lampin and garda happins to see the lamp and come over,dose he or she have the power to seize my firearm ?

Hunting is not just the act of shooting. Hunting is infact the enitre process of searching for and shooting at quarry. So using a lamp from a vehicle is the same as (legally) shooting from a vehicle - ie not allowed.

Now the only time a Garda can seize the firearm is if they believe you to be causing reckless endangerment. I'm paraphrasing here.

Ghost. wrote: »

So if what you say is correct, according to the definition of the act all bird watchers and nature watchers are in fact hunting!

No.

Bird watchers by the very defintion are watching birds, and not searching for them for the purposes of shooting them - ie. hunting. There is a law regarding the photograohing of wildlife that i'm not overly familiar with but will try and find it.

As are any farmers checking their livestock at night with a lamp from a vehicle. They would technically be breaking the law if they did so from a vehicle..

Again no.

The purpose is not for hunting. I mean a farmer is not going throught the fields, "lamping" his livestock for the purpose of hunting it. Now if he was out shining a light on his livestock and had a rifle/shotgun in the car e moght have a harder time explaining his actions.

Nobody is saying its not slightly daft. However there are instances when its is allowed (whether legally or by the deiscretion of any Garda on the scene) and others when it is not allowed. That is why certain laws are vague. It leaves the final say with the Garda in question.


The simple fact is this.

• Shooting form a vehicle whether on a road, moving, stationary, in a field, etc is illegal.
• Lamping from a vehicle is also illegal.

If in doubt, stop, put feet on the ground, and have yourself covered.
Also this has come up again, and again with different distances, etc.

Kildare.17hmr wrote:

.............but to stay legal you need to go into the field to shoot(60 yards now mesured in meters or so they say.

I know thats from the NARGC website, and for safety reasons i'm not going to say "ignore" it, but as the only (vaguely) related law states 60 feet (18mtrs/20yards/), and this has not been amended since it still stands.

Of course, as said before, if anyone can find anything new or some amendment to this i'd happily like to be corrected.

Vegeta

Ezridax wrote: »

No.

Bird watchers by the very defintion are watching birds, and not searching for them for the purposes of shooting them - ie. hunting. There is a law regarding the photograohing of wildlife that i'm not overly familiar with but will try and find it.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

The hunting definition specifically makes allowances for bird watchers and photographers.

but does not in this Act include stalking, attracting, searching for or lying in wait for any fauna by an unarmed person solely for the purpose of watching or of taking or making photographic or other pictures, and kindred words shall be construed accordingly;

Also fauna are defined as wild animals and as livestock are not wild animals then farmers would not be breaking the law checking their stock with a lamp from a vehicle

kildare.17hmr

So there ya have it lads your "just checkin the stock" for the farmer........






Joke

Spunk84

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

So there ya have it lads your "just checkin the stock" for the farmer........

Joke

i think we have a loophole Lads :eek: seriously if your stopped or a gard happens upon you at night whilst lamping. Stay calm, relax and be truthful with them.Usually they know who owns the land or the farmer so if you start lying or making up things they will go to town on you.Been pulled by gards a few times and it always ends up showing them how to call a fox in:p ...Most of them are human and actual have never seen someone lamping before. I always ask them do they want to go off for a half hour and lamp which usually breaks the tension:cool:

If they tell you to move one then do so! Doesn't mean you cant drive around the other side of the field and lamp back to your original position again.