TV set with DVB-T2 and DVB-S2

joceadaigh

Just wondering if there is any such thing as a combo HD TV set with both DVB-T2 and DVB-S2?? If so please post model name and mumber with source and price.
I know a lot of people who are expecting a lot more from Saorview than what is available and get a bit annoyed when I tell them they can get free sat channels with a set top box... they wonder why they got the new tv in the first place. (these are people out of the freeview overspill area, or dont want to erect a new aerial for wales and some would have existing dishes.)
A combo TV set would be great for these people... well for everyone.

excollier

Not sure such a thing exists.
There are Freesat/Freeview (not T2 though) but they are older models, probably discontinued by now - check out Panasonic and Sony

Finne1993

excollier wrote: »

Not sure such a thing exists.
There are Freesat/Freeview (not T2 though) but they are older models, probably discontinued by now - check out Panasonic and Sony

Panasonic GT20 series have both tuners as well as high end Samsung 3D TV's but they're expensive.

Finne1993

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4980786/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7CHome+entertainment+and+sat+nav%7C14419512/c_2/2%7C14419512%7CTelevisions%7C14419667.htm

Not a great example but just showing you they're out there

STB

There are plenty of UK Satellite and Irish DTT (Saorview) TVs with the integrated tuners out there. They wont have Freesat 7 epg facility on satellite (just now next) and they aren't Saorview approved, but they would display the stations etc, similar to what a HD combo box would do.

Philips XXpfl7655k_02
Philips XXpfl7606k 3d LED TV

Samsung UeXXd5700 LED TV
Samsung UeXXd6200 LED TV
Samsung UeXXd6500 LED TV
Samsung Ue46d6510 LED TV
Samsung UeXXd7090 LED TV

Sony Kdl XXex525baep LED TV

LG XXlv375s LCD TV

(the XX is the screen size, in many cases they start at 32" - the Sonys have a 26")

By the way you do know a combo box like the Ferguson is less than a €100. The combo TVs are expensive. It would seem to me to be cheaper to just add a combo box to cheaper LCDs........

joceadaigh

STB wrote: »

By the way you do know a combo box like the Ferguson is less than a €100. The combo TVs are expensive. It would seem to me to be cheaper to just add a combo box to cheaper LCDs........

Ye I was thinking there may be some cheaper models out there that may have these features but not many people know about. Its hard to find full specs on the samsung website.

Anyway, for the prices I see for the model already listed I'll be advising combo stbs instead. Its just a lot of people have it in their head they need to change their tv for saorview. Its hard to convince them otherwise. And of course they want everything saorview approved.

watty

The combo TVs are niche market rip offs. It costs them maybe €20 extra.

You can buy a 42" Saorview set and Humax Freesat HD PVR and still have change in some cases.

Note there are no properly compatible with Saorview and especially not with "Freesat HD" Combo boxes yet. Unless you have a Sky Sub, you can't beat a UK "Freesat+ HD" PVR for UK TV. Also that is were most of the channels are on. In reality Saorview has effectively four & half channels, RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4 and 3e, the RTE News news now is just repeats of main RTE and the other channel is mix of RTEjr and RTE1+1, i.e. Repeats.

joceadaigh

watty wrote: »

The combo TVs are niche market rip offs. It costs them maybe €20 extra.

I can see that from the prices i've found on the above listed... :mad:

You can buy a 42" Saorview set and Humax Freesat HD PVR and still have change in some cases.

I was hoping to a solution that would let older, or just less tech savy people have all the stations on one remote.

I've always hoped that we'd be able to get reliable freeview from wales here and not bother with distributing the satellite throughout the house, but neighbours trees are blocking Arfon transmitter, and the other main transmitters are a no-go if the post here on boards are anything to go by.
Haing to tell my dad what control he needs to watch whatever channel every day gets tirering... and what about others who dont have 4 grown-up lads to tell them. And trying to explain how to record is another story... I'm not looking forward to the forthcomming olympics when he'll want to record from satellite and terrestrial at the same time. :eek:
Of course its a piece of p*** for most people here...

Note there are no properly compatible with Saorview and especially not with "Freesat HD" Combo boxes yet. Unless you have a Sky Sub, you can't beat a UK "Freesat+ HD" PVR for UK TV. Also that is were most of the channels are on. In reality Saorview has effectively four & half channels, RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4 and 3e, the RTE News news now is just repeats of main RTE and the other channel is mix of RTEjr and RTE1+1, i.e. Repeats.

I think this whole digital swtichover was a huge lost opertunity for RTE and Government.

Rick_

Finne1993 wrote: »

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4980786/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7CHome+entertainment+and+sat+nav%7C14419512/c_2/2%7C14419512%7CTelevisions%7C14419667.htm

Not a great example but just showing you they're out there

That link has text at the top of the article saying "This TV will not work with digital signals in the Republic of Ireland, you will require a digital set top box or satellite source"

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5299342/c_1/1|category_root|Home+entertainment+and+sat+nav|14419512/c_2/2|14419512|Televisions|14419667/c_3/3|cat_14419667|LED+TVs|16180235.htm

This one doesn't, so I presume that it will work with Saorview, and is a damn good bit cheaper too.

ShaneOC

joceadaigh wrote: »

I can see that from the prices i've found on the above listed... :mad:

I was hoping to a solution that would let older, or just less tech savy people have all the stations on one remote.

I've always hoped that we'd be able to get reliable freeview from wales here and not bother with distributing the satellite throughout the house, but neighbours trees are blocking Arfon transmitter, and the other main transmitters are a no-go if the post here on boards are anything to go by.
Haing to tell my dad what control he needs to watch whatever channel every day gets tirering... and what about others who dont have 4 grown-up lads to tell them. And trying to explain how to record is another story... I'm not looking forward to the forthcomming olympics when he'll want to record from satellite and terrestrial at the same time. :eek:
Of course its a piece of p*** for most people here...

I think this whole digital swtichover was a huge lost opertunity for RTE and Government.

I got a saorview box, a freesat HD box and a harmony remote control for the folks. I set up two activities on the remote, "Watch Irish TV" and "Watch UK TV". They simply have to press one button or another and then it's just channel up/down for them and bob's yer uncle. They never used a guide before so they don't really care about it now. If they do want to use it it'll still be the same button on the remote.

recyclebin

joceadaigh wrote: »

Haing to tell my dad what control he needs to watch whatever channel every day gets tirering... and what about others who dont have 4 grown-up lads to tell them. And trying to explain how to record is another story... I'm not looking forward to the forthcomming olympics when he'll want to record from satellite and terrestrial at the same time. :eek:
Of course its a piece of p*** for most people here...

I had the same problem with my parents so I printed out the Freesat EPG from wikipedia on one A4 page. I then used a label printer to label all the remotes TV, DVD, Freesat and Saorview. I then wrote down how to switch between of each of them using the TV remote. I stuck the two sheets in a A4clear plastic sheet back to back so now they now can work the TV without having to keep asking me.

paulhardman

If anyone's interested, I picked up a Samsung UE46D8000 at the weekend for our lounge, beautiful telly. Specs say it has a DVB-T2 and -S2 tuner.

The interesting part is when you first plug it in, it asks you to select a country, UK or Ireland. If you select Ireland, it'll then do a network search on Air (Saorview) and Satellite, with selectable pre-programmed satellite channels built in. All the Saorview channels come in perfectly, along with all the FTA stuff available from 28.2E.

If you select UK, however, Freesat pops up as an option as well as Satellite... and magically it gives you the Freesat EPG as one option, and (UK)Freeview EPG on the Air setting. A quick renumbering of the Saorsat channels (which all appear in the 800s) and the TV now has full Freesat HD and Saorview... and a hard disc shoved in the back and it all records nicely.

Just thought you might like to know!

STB

paulhardman wrote: »

If anyone's interested, I picked up a Samsung UE46D8000 at the weekend for our lounge, beautiful telly. Specs say it has a DVB-T2 and -S2 tuner.

The interesting part is when you first plug it in, it asks you to select a country, UK or Ireland. If you select Ireland, it'll then do a network search on Air (Saorview) and Satellite, with selectable pre-programmed satellite channels built in. All the Saorview channels come in perfectly, along with all the FTA stuff available from 28.2E.

If you select UK, however, Freesat pops up as an option as well as Satellite... and magically it gives you the Freesat EPG as one option, and (UK)Freeview EPG on the Air setting. A quick renumbering of the Saorsat channels (which all appear in the 800s) and the TV now has full Freesat HD and Saorview... and a hard disc shoved in the back and it all records nicely.

Just thought you might like to know!

Thanks Paul.

Yes that model is a "Freesat HD" model. It has been mentioned here previously, but they are quite expensive at €1500+.

Pete2k

The current range of Freesat HD Panasonics work just fine as well and are considerably cheaper than some other makes. The correct audio option on TV3 & TG4 may have to be selected manually but this is the only issue.

championc

If your budget can't stretch to high end Panny's, look in Amazon for a Panny G20B.

joceadaigh

recyclebin wrote: »

I had the same problem with my parents so I printed out the Freesat EPG from wikipedia on one A4 page. I then used a label printer to label all the remotes TV, DVD, Freesat and Saorview. I then wrote down how to switch between of each of them using the TV remote. I stuck the two sheets in a A4clear plastic sheet back to back so now they now can work the TV without having to keep asking me.

I'd give it about 2hours before those instruction get "put in a safe place" and never seen again. I'd need to glue it to the coffee table.

NewHillel

paulhardman wrote: »

If anyone's interested, I picked up a Samsung UE46D8000 at the weekend for our lounge, beautiful telly. Specs say it has a DVB-T2 and -S2 tuner.

The interesting part is when you first plug it in, it asks you to select a country, UK or Ireland. If you select Ireland, it'll then do a network search on Air (Saorview) and Satellite, with selectable pre-programmed satellite channels built in. All the Saorview channels come in perfectly, along with all the FTA stuff available from 28.2E.

If you select UK, however, Freesat pops up as an option as well as Satellite... and magically it gives you the Freesat EPG as one option, and (UK)Freeview EPG on the Air setting. A quick renumbering of the Saorsat channels (which all appear in the 800s) and the TV now has full Freesat HD and Saorview... and a hard disc shoved in the back and it all records nicely.

Just thought you might like to know!

Yeah, I've been trying to justify buying one for the past three months. Problem is my current TV, now 5 years old, cost a fortune and is still working (too) well.
Good viewing.

championc

NewHillel wrote: »

Yeah, I've been trying to justify buying one for the past three months. Problem is my current TV, now 5 years old, cost a fortune and is still working (too) well.
Good viewing.

Now that's a difficult choice alright. Panny always seem to launch their new TV range about now every year and so you should see last years' models now being heavily discounted (in the UK anyway).

However, it strikes me that the next best option in a TV is an embedded (Linux) PC rather than Internet Widgets so that's something to be holding off for. Having said that, it's very easy to get an old PC, load up Ubuntu and connect it to your TV and you have a full media server and lots of other possibilities.

joceadaigh

championc wrote: »

However, it strikes me that the next best option in a TV is an embedded (Linux) PC rather than Internet Widgets so that's something to be holding off for. Having said that, it's very easy to get an old PC, load up Ubuntu and connect it to your TV and you have a full media server and lots of other possibilities.

Ye it's something a young family might be interested in but for the less tech savy it wouldn't be a priority.

A less expensive version of that Samsung sounds like the solution.

Finne1993

Paddy C wrote: »

That link has text at the top of the article saying "This TV will not work with digital signals in the Republic of Ireland, you will require a digital set top box or satellite source"

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5299342/c_1/1|category_root|Home+entertainment+and+sat+nav|14419512/c_2/2|14419512|Televisions|14419667/c_3/3|cat_14419667|LED+TVs|16180235.htm

This one doesn't, so I presume that it will work with Saorview, and is a damn good bit cheaper too.

Don't mind that, they're just obliged to put that note in as no Panasonic TVs are Saorview approved even though Saorview works fine on all of their latest models.

The OP wanted a TV with Freesat and Saorview, the TV you've linked to only has Freeview HD. Granted, its an awful lot cheaper but useless for UK channels unless you're near the border or on the South East Coast.

moz1

paulhardman wrote: »

If anyone's interested, I picked up a Samsung UE46D8000 at the weekend for our lounge, beautiful telly. Specs say it has a DVB-T2 and -S2 tuner.

The interesting part is when you first plug it in, it asks you to select a country, UK or Ireland. If you select Ireland, it'll then do a network search on Air (Saorview) and Satellite, with selectable pre-programmed satellite channels built in. All the Saorview channels come in perfectly, along with all the FTA stuff available from 28.2E.

If you select UK, however, Freesat pops up as an option as well as Satellite... and magically it gives you the Freesat EPG as one option, and (UK)Freeview EPG on the Air setting. A quick renumbering of the Saorsat channels (which all appear in the 800s) and the TV now has full Freesat HD and Saorview... and a hard disc shoved in the back and it all records nicely.

Just thought you might like to know!

Interested in one of these myself, could you tell me if series link is available on the freesat channels from the EPG?

championc

moz1 wrote: »

Interested in one of these myself, could you tell me if series link is available on the freesat channels from the EPG?

Is Series Link not a Sky thing only ?

wil

paulhardman wrote: »

If anyone's interested, I picked up a Samsung UE46D8000 at the weekend for our lounge, beautiful telly. Specs say it has a DVB-T2 and -S2 tuner.

The interesting part is when you first plug it in, it asks you to select a country, UK or Ireland. If you select Ireland, it'll then do a network search on Air (Saorview) and Satellite, with selectable pre-programmed satellite channels built in. All the Saorview channels come in perfectly, along with all the FTA stuff available from 28.2E.

If you select UK, however, Freesat pops up as an option as well as Satellite... and magically it gives you the Freesat EPG as one option, and (UK)Freeview EPG on the Air setting. A quick renumbering of the Saorsat channels (which all appear in the 800s) and the TV now has full Freesat HD and Saorview... and a hard disc shoved in the back and it all records nicely.

Just thought you might like to know!

I have a problem with the 7000, basically identical to the 8000 minus metallic surround and a few €
Cant seem to have both DTT and Sat channels listed in same favourites or channel list. Have to switch between sources (in tools) Air or Sat. contacted Samsung and they say it is not possible.
What you say seems to indicate otherwise, will have to play a bit more.

As for recording, USB keys wont work, needs a usb powered HDD min 5400rpm, 34mbs write.

A very pretty TV with a lot under the bonnet but not so sure about the Smart parts

Apogee

championc wrote: »

Is Series Link not a Sky thing only ?

No, it's available in the UK on DTT (Freeview+) and additionally on satellite (Freesat+).

The Cush

wil wrote: »

Cant seem to have both DTT and Sat channels listed in same favourites or channel list. Have to switch between sources (in tools) Air or Sat. contacted Samsung and they say it is not possible.
What you say seems to indicate otherwise, will have to play a bit more.

I have a similar Sony DTT/Sat TV, two separate tuners therefore two separate channle lists. If you could receive Saorview and the UK terrestrial service Freeview (same tuner) it would be possible to have them in the one list.

BionicRasher

watty wrote: »

The combo TVs are niche market rip offs. It costs them maybe €20 extra.

Panasonic TXL42D25L
have this and it was far from a rip off being a lot cheaper than other 42 inch models such as basic Sony with only 1 tuner etc at the time of purchase. Works with DVB-T and S getting me Saorview and Freesat

PressTheButton

tui0hcg wrote: »

Panasonic TXL42D25L
have this and it was far from a rip off being a lot cheaper than other 42 inch models such as basic Sony with only 1 tuner etc at the time of purchase. Works with DVB-T and S getting me Saorview and Freesat

The verb RIP OFF has 1 sense: 1. deprive somebody of something by deceit.

Panasonic state the TX-L42D25L is an 'Ireland Model' (as per your link) but it is not totally suitable for receiving Ireland's digital terrestrial television (DTT) service. Feel deceived?

There is a reason why the Panasonic TX-L42D25L could never be Saorview approved. It is not equipped with MHEG5 middleware. You are therefore deprived of some aspects of the Saorview service.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

BionicRasher

PressTheButton wrote: »

The verb RIP OFF has 1 sense: 1. deprive somebody of something by deceit.

Panasonic state the TX-L42D25L is an 'Ireland Model' (as per your link) but it is not totally suitable for receiving Ireland's digital terrestrial television (DTT) service. Feel deceived?

There is a reason why the Panasonic TX-L42D25L could never be Saorview approved. It is not equipped with MHEG5 middleware. You are therefore deprived of some aspects of the Saorview service.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

The TV was never advertised or sold as Saorview compatible but yet it gets Saorview (bar the MHEG5) and it will do all I wanted it to do so therefore it is 'far from a rip off'

The phrase rip-off has a few explanations and the TV does not fall in to any of these for the price paid

rip-off (r p ôf , - f )
n. Slang
1. A product or service that is overpriced or of poor quality.
2. Something, such as a film or story, that is clearly imitative of or based on something else.
3. A theft.
4. An act of exploitation.

Q.E.D

STB

Regardless of all that there is number of reasons that non Saorview certified Panasonic products should not be pushed here.

Remember this is a thread about combo sat and dvb-t TVs. Panasonic have employed very strange interpretations of standards in their combo products so far, with incomplete firmware to diasble functionality outside the destined Country for DVB-T reception on combo products. This has been a valuable lesson for Irish people who have bought their products. Their support has been nothing short of dismissive to the Irish punter (there are countless threads - Panasonics support has been consistently - hard luck not meant for Ireland). They do not fix the problems.

In the case of the L model from late 2009/early 2010 there really is no excuse for not having MHEG5 included with the Irish profile in the software settings. Most manufacturers leave its use open (ie Samsung/Sony/LG). The min and basic spec has not changed since Feb 2008.

In the Panasonic products that have been hacked (because of the lack of easy firmware fixes) they still have problems with audio streams which require manual interaction everytime you change a channel.

Only a moron would suggest any model Panasonic for Saorview reception unless it is certified. Given that there never will be a Combo Freesat/Saorview certified product it would be a massive leap of faith to recommend one. Do not learn the hard way.

I dont sell TVs or work for any other manufacturer, I can only give you my and other peoples (bad) experiences of Panasonic suitability for non certified TVs.

tui0hcg wrote: »

The TV was never advertised or sold as Saorview compatible but yet it gets Saorview (bar the MHEG5) and it will do all I wanted it to do so therefore it is 'far from a rip off'

The phrase rip-off has a few explanations and the TV does not fall in to any of these for the price paid

Forget about certification for a second.

The minimum standards for basic reception of Saorview were openly published in Feb 2008. The basics.... MPEG4 AVC and MHEG5 (per Uk profile).

How come these setting couldnt be employed in Panasonic sets released until 2011 when the country setup is Ireland ? After all these L models are "Irish" models. Suitability ? How come the other manufacturers could get it right ? Would a firmware release be too much to ask for or do the sales figures not merit it?

Posters here have been talking about the specs on this very site since 2008. Its not as if all the manufacturers havent known. Wherent Panasonic were chairing the CEDA group for long enough ? Basic compatability for Ireland in pan european shipped TVs must have been a low priority.

Hopefully their products in the future will allow more interoperability between the UK and Ireland..

BionicRasher

STB wrote: »

Remember this is a thread about combo sat and dvb-t TVs.

My Panasonic TXL42D25L is such a TV - so not sure where you are going there as the OP asked for any TVs that had combo sat and dvb-t

STB wrote: »

Only a moron would suggest any model Panasonic for Saorview reception unless it is certified. Given that there never will be a Combo Freesat/Saorview certified product it would be a massive leap of faith to recommend one. Do not learn the hard way.

I take offence to you suggesting this as I am far from a moron. My TV will get Saorview presently but I am fully aware it may not always get Saorview if something drastic changes in the future and I am not recommending the OP buys one tomorrow but I do reccommend Panasonic as the TV is top class in picture quality and feature set. I am offering advice on a TV that has a combo set of receivers that the OP originally asked about

If the OP wants to get a Panasonic then surely its up to them and a case of buyer beware

STB

tui0hcg wrote: »

My Panasonic TXL42D25L is such a TV - so not sure where you are going there as the OP asked for any TVs that had combo sat and dvb-t



I take offence to you suggesting this as I am far from a moron. My TV will get Saorview presently but I am fully aware it may not always get Saorview if something drastic changes in the future and I am not recommending the OP buys one tomorrow but I do reccommend Panasonic as the TV is top class in picture quality and feature set. I am offering advice on a TV that has a combo set of receivers that the OP originally asked about

If the OP wants to get a Panasonic then surely its up to them and a case of buyer beware

Its nothing personal !

Panasonic may well be top class in your mind, but their basic operation in Ireland has to be questioned if not certified given their previous form.

Feature set !!!! Dont you think that the basics should be available in your L model (MHEG5 ????) given they are advertised and MARKETED for Ireland by Panasonic!

Right tuners and right middleware are the basics. It is no good having high PQ if you have to connect a Saorview box because the manufacturer couldnt get the bloody basics right.

Look I only suggest you google Panasonic and boards.ie and you will understand my justification for only a "moron would recommend".....

And yes it is the reason why I didnt list ANY Panasonics in my original reply to the OP.

BionicRasher

STB wrote: »

Its nothing personal !

Panasonic may well be top class in your mind, but their basic operation in Ireland has to be questioned if not certified given their previous form. Feature set !!!! Dony you think that the basics should be available in your L model given they are advertised for Ireland!

Look I only suggest you google Panasonic and boards.ie and you will understand my justification for only a "moron would recommend".....

OK - but show me what basics are not available that Panasonic have advertised for this TV?
Everything seems to work for me - DVB-S feed is fine DVB-T feed is fine it seems that the TV is operating as expected and basically doing its job of providing a combo set of TV feeds

When I bought this TV I was also looking for a combo TV and after a small amount of research I got this and it is performing exactly as it said on the tin. I was obviously delighted that I could pick up Saorview and Freesat so that’s all I expected

TBH I got this TV for the DVB-S, PVR and Ethernet connection features - it’s a bonus that it gets Saorview but for 3 and a bit pretty poor stations provided by Saorview I could do without.
The 'feature set' of the TV is top notch compared to similar priced and sized TVs on the market at the time of purchase and I don’t see any item that Panasonic advertised that is not working on the TV

STB

tui0hcg wrote: »

OK - but show me what basics are not available that Panasonic have advertised for this TV?
Everything seems to work for me - DVB-S feed is fine DVB-T feed is fine it seems that the TV is operating as expected and basically doing its job of providing a combo set of TV feeds

When I bought this TV I was also looking for a combo TV and after a small amount of research I got this and it is preforming excatly as it said on the tin. I was obviusly delighted that I could pick up Saorview and Freesat so thats all I expected

MHEG5 is a minimum requirement for Digital TV in Ireland. It was a minumum requirement in [url=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/10144/151838.pdf[/url] when first published. Your TV was marketed for Ireland in 2010 ? And still doesnt have the basic digital TV requirements for this country... middleware is a basic requirement ! Other countries profiled are fine of course. We do not use MHP!

BionicRasher

STB wrote: »

MHEG5 is a minimum requirement for Digital TV in Ireland. It was a minumum requirement in 2008 when first published. Your TV was marketed for Ireland in 2010 ? And still doesnt have the basic digital TV requirements for this country. Other countries I am sure have !

The TV is not certified or advertised to work with Saorview so I don’t see where the minimum requirement even enters the equation

The OP asked for a list of TVs with dual inputs and this is one of those TVs

Dont want to bicker as I see your point but I am only providing information on a TV that fits the bill for the OP

STB

tui0hcg wrote: »

The TV is not certified or advertised to work with Saorview so I don’t see where the minimum requirement even enters the equation

The OP asked for a list of TVs with dual inputs and this is one of those TVs

Dont want to bicker as I see your point but I am only providing information on a TV that fits the bill for the OP

Okay... I would rather not be seen as some anti Panasonic crank but how many threads is there about problems with Panasonic products and Irish DTT? Certainly I was less than impressed in recommending them in the past only to discover that the firmware in both the first and second set of Freesat HD MPEG4 combo TVs had been short written to decode ONLY Mpeg2 flagged broadcasts on DTT despite the Tv's capabilities. The people who bought these products here where even less impressed.

Richer sounds took a view on this a good while back given the brand uncertainty and compatibility.

Dont you think that it a reasonable expectation that TVs marketed at this country that include an integrated Digital TV tuner should have fully preloaded software and middleware for this country ?

You are right. This is nothing to do with certfication. This has to do with how products are shipped and marketed. If we are part of Pan European product line, then the country setup option should at least enable the decoding of the 2 basics of the countries broadcast platform regardless of conformity to the full spec!

Certification via Saorview logos is of course about bringing certainty to punters so that punters dont have to second guess IF manufacturers are on the ball or even mildly interested that the country they are marketing their products at and that the not in-expensive item does have the basic requirements to decode and display that countries published broadcast standard. It is for this very reason that you do not see ATSC tuners marketed here!

As an aside how many Panasonic products have Saorview certification ? Is it a lack of interest or a lack of suitable products ?

BionicRasher

The TV fits the bill for the OP
I recommend it you don’t

End of.

STB

tui0hcg wrote: »

The TV fits the bill for the OP
I recommend it you don’t

End of.

Again Nothing personal. You have your view. I have mine and I hope I have backed up the reasons why. I am glad you are happy with your Irish marketed Panasonic TV despite it missing the basic requirements for Irish Digital TV enjoyment. Of course we have had this discussion before. MHEG5 isnt the be all and end all and if that was the only downfall then maybe it isnt the worst shortcoming compared with those of Panasonic combos in the past. Do be aware that the L model range are only now and next on the Satellite EPG which goes against the reasoning for the majority who buy combo TVs in the first instance ie Freesat software.

Who would be a consumer eh ?

BionicRasher

STB wrote: »

Nothing personal. You have your view. I have mine and I hope I have backed up the reasons why. I am glad you are happy with your Irish marketed Panasonic TV despite it missing the basic requirements for Irish Digital TV enjoyment. Of course we have had this discussion before. MHEG5 isnt the be all and end all and if that was the only downfall then maybe it isnt the worst shortcoming compared with those in the past. Do be aware that the L model range are only now and next on the Satellite EPG which goes against the reasoning for the majority who buy combo TVs in the first instance ie Freesat software.

Who would be a consumer eh ?

And I hope I have backed up the reasons why I have my view too - the TV has dual tuners (as requested by the OP) and works with Saorview and Freesat getting you the required channels and many people dont give a fiddlers about MHEG5 as long as they can watch a bit of BBC HD or other UK Freesat stuff and maybe a bit of what Saorview can offer too.

Happy days when you can get a great TV at that price with the 2 tuners and no extra boxes hanging off it to clutter up the room

BionicRasher

I used to get mad about the MHEG5 bit missing on the TV but gave up that cross a while back and now I am more than happy with the TV - if at a future date it gives up the ghost and wont do Saorview then I will deal with that when it comes but at the moment its a great bit of kit

championc

Anti Panasonic threads all started after 04 Nov 2010 when 100% previously satisfied Panny owners suddenly wanted their TV's to give them access to something for which the product was never intended to feature and for which the feature in the product was also not bought for.

People had bought LZ81's and G10L's (and others) and were delighted with them. Along came the Saorview "trial" and all of a sudden people had a BONUS of access using these TV's which were also able to pick up UK Freeview channels due to the MPEG-2 decoders on-board. So owners were celebrating having access to the Irish channels in glorious digital. Saorview was then "officially" launched on 31 Oct 2010 and the joy continued. Then, on 04 Nov 2010, the codec flag was changed from 0x01 to 0x16. There was no change in the transmission signals but the problem occurred when a "Freeview" set tried to scan looking for 0x01 channels and found none.

Their BONUS was suddenly gone. Owners got upset that Panny wouldn't change firmware to do something for which the Panny's were never intended. Ever since, the Panny's have been slagged off by several people. I 100% agree with tui0hcg that the Panny's sold do exactly what they promise. We all know that with a bit of effort, Panny could make a perfect product - but that's not the point.

Remember too that before the arrival of Sky and UPC boxes, the majority of sets sold in Ireland carried dual UHF and VHF equipped in order to cater for Cable customers. So certain features were sacrificed for the inclusion of the VHF.

So I am quite sure that anyone who bought a Panny and who were unhappy with them would have bought them straight back to where they came from but in all honesty, you can't go trying to return stuff a year or so later when it was previously the greatest thing ever.

NewHillel

championc wrote: »

Their BONUS was suddenly gone. Owners got upset that Panny wouldn't change firmware to do something for which the Panny's were never intended.

Silly me, there was I thinking that a Tv sold in Ireland should be able to pick up Irish TV broadcasts!

Time was Panasonic would have been top of my list. No longer.

BionicRasher

NewHillel wrote: »

Silly me, there was I thinking that a Tv sold in Ireland should be able to pick up Irish TV broadcasts!

Time was Panasonic would have been top of my list. No longer.

They can pick up Irish TV broadcasts
Just that they are not Saorview approved

STB

championc wrote: »

Anti Panasonic threads all started after 04 Nov 2010 when 100% previously satisfied Panny owners suddenly wanted their TV's to give them access to something for which the product was never intended to feature and for which the feature in the product was also not bought for.


People had bought LZ81's and G10L's (and others) and were delighted with them. Along came the Saorview "trial" and all of a sudden people had a BONUS of access using these TV's which were also able to pick up UK Freeview channels due to the MPEG-2 decoders on-board. So owners were celebrating having access to the Irish channels in glorious digital. Saorview was then "officially" launched on 31 Oct 2010 and the joy continued. Then, on 04 Nov 2010, the codec flag was changed from 0x01 to 0x16. There was no change in the transmission signals but the problem occurred when a "Freeview" set tried to scan looking for 0x01 channels and found none.

Their BONUS was suddenly gone. Owners got upset that Panny wouldn't change firmware to do something for which the Panny's were never intended. Ever since, the Panny's have been slagged off by several people. I 100% agree with tui0hcg that the Panny's sold do exactly what they promise. We all know that with a bit of effort, Panny could make a perfect product - but that's not the point.

Remember too that before the arrival of Sky and UPC boxes, the majority of sets sold in Ireland carried dual UHF and VHF equipped in order to cater for Cable customers. So certain features were sacrificed for the inclusion of the VHF.

So I am quite sure that anyone who bought a Panny and who were unhappy with them would have bought them straight back to where they came from but in all honesty, you can't go trying to return stuff a year or so later when it was previously the greatest thing ever.

No. Totally untrue.

The threads started a LONG time before that. It started with the PZ81 range released for HD Freesat and DVB-T in 2008/9. I suggest you search before jumping to Panasonic's defence with complete nonsense.

History
Panasonic released their first HD combo TV range in mid 2008. Combo means a DVB-T and DVB-S tuners. These combos have an MPEG4 processor on board to decode the HD broadcasts from the Satellite tuner via Freesat (MPEG4 broadcasts) and a DVB-T tuner which to the spec meant they had the capability to decode MPEG4 broadcasts via DVB-T .

And they did initially when RTE first broadcast MPEG4 (from day 1) but with an MPEG2 data descriptor.

When RTE changed this dvb descriptor in early 2009 people soon discovered through this forum that the software on the Panasonic combo TVs were deliberately crippled to disallow the reception of anything not flagged 0x01 which is MPEG2 broadcasts even though the hardware can decode (and did) MPEG4 broadcasts. This was through the fault of deliberately short written firmware. People have taken to hacking these TVs through the use of hotel files given that no solution was offered to these purchasers in Ireland by Panasonic.

Secondly there was NO RTE Trial. There was a DCMNR trial with BT which finished in July 2008. In August 2008 RTE started broadcasting DVB-T MPEG4 broadcasts and gradually started kitting and rolling out the main TX sites around the country. Initially these broadcasts did use the 0x01 descriptor. It changed in 2009 to 0x16 which is a flag for SD Advanced Codec of MPEG4. These were not defined in the 1st Panasonic Freesat HD Combo range of Pz81/LZD81. A few lines of code.

Then LG released a range of Freesat Combo TVs in April 2009 (LF7700). LG didnt employ shortcuts in the firmware and the TVs work fine with Saorview and have the full suite of DVB-T flags defined.

Then Panasonic released their 2nd range of Freesat Combo Tvs in mid 2009 - the G10b/15b range which again had shortcuts in the firmware for DVB-T reception in Ireland. People have taken to hacking them via the onboard hex editor as no other solution has been made available.

Then Sony released a Freesat Combo range (W5810) and like LG didnt employ Panasonic's narrow interpretation of what the TV should and shouldn't decode on the DVB-T side.

It is only NOW in the TV you bought (the G20b) that the consumer doesnt have to second guess what Panasonic have or havent employed as shortcuts. And the reason for that ? The full list of service descriptors MUST be defined for the terrestrial tuner for Freeview HD whih uses the MPEG4 processor and requires the full list !

Bonuses indeed! Bottom line. Panasonic were the only manufacturer of Combo TVs NOT to define the full list of services in their DVB-T/DVB-S Freesat range.

As a footnote to all of this given the uncertainty employed by manufacturers in how they ship and pre-program TVs with certain standards (or not) of countries published standards, RTENL had to introduce a certification process. This is where manufacturers submit their suitable products to Terracom for bench testing and can then be sold with Saorview certification badge, if they pass.

Walker where the first to get certification in 2010. Since then an additional 16 other manufacturing TV brands have received Saorview certification. Panasonic is not among them.

joceadaigh

STB wrote: »

No. Totally untrue.

The threads started a LONG time before that. It started with the PZ81 range released for HD Freesat and DVB-T in 2008/9. I suggest you search before jumping to Panasonic's defence with complete nonsense.

History
Panasonic released their first HD combo TV range in mid 2008. Combo means a DVB-T and DVB-S tuners. These combos have an MPEG4 processor on board to decode the HD broadcasts from the Satellite tuner via Freesat (MPEG4 broadcasts) and a DVB-T tuner which to the spec meant they had the capability to decode MPEG4 broadcasts via DVB-T .

And they did initially when RTE first broadcast MPEG4 (from day 1) but with an MPEG2 data descriptor.

When RTE changed this dvb descriptor in early 2009 people soon discovered through this forum that the software on the Panasonic combo TVs were deliberately crippled to disallow the reception of anything not flagged 0x01 which is MPEG2 broadcasts even though the hardware can decode (and did) MPEG4 broadcasts. This was through the fault of deliberately short written firmware. People have taken to hacking these TVs through the use of hotel files given that no solution was offered to these purchasers in Ireland by Panasonic.

Secondly there was NO RTE Trial. There was a DCMNR trial with BT which finished in July 2008. In August 2008 RTE started broadcasting DVB-T MPEG4 broadcasts and gradually started kitting and rolling out the main TX sites around the country. Initially these broadcasts did use the 0x01 descriptor. It changed in 2009 to 0x16 which is a flag for SD Advanced Codec of MPEG4. These were not defined in the 1st Panasonic Freesat HD Combo range of Pz81/LZD81. A few lines of code.

Then LG released a range of Freesat Combo TVs in April 2009 (LF7700). LG didnt employ shortcuts in the firmware and the TVs work fine with Saorview and have the full suite of DVB-T flags defined.

Then Panasonic released their 2nd range of Freesat Combo Tvs in mid 2009 - the G10b/15b range which again had shortcuts in the firmware for DVB-T reception in Ireland. People have taken to hacking them via the onboard hex editor as no other solution has been made available.

Then Sony released a Freesat Combo range (W5810) and like LG didnt employ Panasonic's narrow interpretation of what the TV should and shouldn't decode on the DVB-T side.

It is only NOW in the TV you bought (the G20b) that the consumer doesnt have to second guess what Panasonic have or havent employed as shortcuts. And the reason for that ? The full list of service descriptors MUST be defined for the terrestrial tuner for Freeview HD whih uses the MPEG4 processor and requires the full list !

Bonuses indeed! Bottom line. Panasonic were the only manufacturer of Combo TVs NOT to define the full list of services in their DVB-T/DVB-S Freesat range.

As a footnote to all of this given the uncertainty employed by manufacturers in how they ship and pre-program TVs with certain standards (or not) of countries published standards, RTENL had to introduce a certification process. This is where manufacturers submit their suitable products to Terracom for bench testing and can then be sold with Saorview certification badge, if they pass.

Walker where the first to get certification in 2010. Since then an additional 16 other manufacturing TV brands have received Saorview certification. Panasonic is not among them.

I didn't want to get involved in this argument at all, but I just thought I'd add this...
from the Minimum Receiver Requirements on the RTENL website.

1.2. Document History
Version Date Status Comments
0.1 09-11-2008 Draft Initial draft document based on Teracom ACD 2.0 document
0.1b 11-11-2008 Draft Comment 0.1 draft – Teracom comment; Per Tullstedt and Petri Hyvärinen
0.1c 17-12-2008 Draft Amendments to 0.1b draft - Marcus O’Doherty
1.0 19-12-2008 Edition 1 Final amendments to 0.1c draft – Marcus O’Doherty
2.0 24-10-2010 Edition 2 NorDig 2.2 update – Deasún Mac Giolla an Chloig

In my opinion Panasonic have nothing to answer for in regards TVs sold in Ireland prior to their Range under development from 2009, and probably released in 2010. That said I do believe in future proofing technology for the good of consumers. I also believe that legislation should have been passed soon after the publication of the first edition of the document that at a specified date all TV sold in Ireland should include these minimum requirements, and any TVs lacking this be bundles with a set-top-box.

I also think that if the release of a firmware update for certain TV sets is feasible the National Consumer Agency should take up this issue. I think the Authorities responsible have made a huge mess of the digital switchover and I don't think Panasonic are to take the blame for that.

Can anyone tell me can a firmware update add mpeg4 capabilities to a DVB-T Mpeg2 (freeview) TV?

As an owner of a FreeviewHD PVR and live in an overspill area i would always advise people to consider a FreeviewHD appliance over Saorview...
But my original post is really looking for DVB-T2 and S2 TV...

Sam Russell

joceadaigh wrote: »

In my opinion Panasonic have nothing to answer for in regards TVs sold in Ireland prior to their Range under development from 2009, and probably released in 2010. That said I do believe in future proofing technology for the good of consumers. I also believe that legislation should have been passed soon after the publication of the first edition of the document that at a specified date all TV sold in Ireland should include these minimum requirements, and any TVs lacking this be bundles with a set-top-box.

I also think that if the release of a firmware update for certain TV sets is feasible the National Consumer Agency should take up this issue. I think the Authorities responsible have made a huge mess of the digital switchover and I don't think Panasonic are to take the blame for that.

Can anyone tell me can a firmware update add mpeg4 capabilities to a DVB-T Mpeg2 (freeview) TV?

As an owner of a FreeviewHD PVR and live in an overspill area i would always advise people to consider a FreeviewHD appliance over Saorview...
But my original post is really looking for DVB-T2 and S2 TV...

Panasonic take the attitude that a TV sold in territory A should not be sold in territory B. To them, this is grey marketing and should be punished prevented. They have actively tried to prevent the upgrade of TVs (the G10B) for proper use, as the same TV can be fooled into working using a hack.

A simple software upgrade would solve all of these problems.

It should be a basis for a campaigne for an upgrade of the UK D-Book to align with the Nordig 2.2 standard with the Freeview HD standard so that full interoperability is achieved, as was promised by the Memorandum of Understanding signed by our then Minister. The DCNER should be the body to take up the cudgel.

There will be many UK viewers affected (in NI) and a small change is all that is needed. We know about LCN, Summertime, etc. Unfortunately, existing equipment is likely to be excluded. I will not hold my breath.

STB

joceadaigh wrote: »

1. Can anyone tell me can a firmware update add mpeg4 capabilities to a DVB-T Mpeg2 (freeview) TV?

2. As an owner of a FreeviewHD PVR and live in an overspill area i would always advise people to consider a FreeviewHD appliance over Saorview...
But my original post is really looking for DVB-T2 and S2 TV...

1. Yes and No. In the case of the combo TVs discussed above what dictates whether they can decode the Saorview channels on the DVB-T side is whether the processor onboard can process MPEG4 H264 video streams. In case of the original Panasonic 1st and 2nd generation DVB-T combo's the issue is that there was a MPEG4 chip onboard (for Feesat HD) but the full DVB service descriptors were not defined in the software. So yes that would be an easy firmware fix.

Early MPEG2 TVs with MPEG2 chipsets cannot be enabled to decode MPEG4 video with firmware.

However a lot of "Freeview TV" released since 2009 although having the Freeview tag actually have MPEG4 chipsets onboard and they have been loaded with hardware way above the Freeview required standard in decoding MPEG2. This is because in many cases the major manufacturers (LG/Sony/Samsung)started bundling MPEG4 chipsets as a basic standard within Europe. Accordingly they handle Saorview broadcasts and do not require firmware.

2. You are in an overspill area. Others in Ireland not in overspill areas will not require the DVB-T2 tuner. (I hadnt actually noticed the T2 tuner requirement, so my initial answer should be treated as such).

That being the case you will be best served by Freeview HD and Freesat HD combo products only.

There have only been 3 ranges T2 and S2 ranges with Freesat HD software released as such. The Panasonic G20b range, the Samsung D7000/8000 range and the Panasonic VT & GT30b range.

Sam Russell wrote: »

It should be a basis for a campaigne for an upgrade of the UK D-Book to align with the Nordig 2.2 standard with the Freeview HD standard so that full interoperability is achieved, as was promised by the Memorandum of Understanding signed by our then Minister. The DCNER should be the body to take up the cudgel.

There will be many UK viewers affected (in NI) and a small change is all that is needed. We know about LCN, Summertime, etc. Unfortunately, existing equipment is likely to be excluded. I will not hold my breath.

My understanding is that there is a working group of DCENR and UK DCMS which are looking at among other things, interoperability issues for NI.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

My understanding is that there is a working group of DCENR and UK DCMS which are looking at among other things, interoperability issues for NI.

Not much happening in this area according to Saorview: Brian - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76015283

joceadaigh

STB wrote: »

2. You are in an overspill area. Others in Ireland not in overspill areas will not require the DVB-T2 tuner. (I hadnt actually noticed the T2 tuner requirement, so my initial answer should be treated as such).

There is no guaranty that RTENL or anyone other future bradcaster/authority will not change to T2 some time in the future. I understand it is unlike in the near future, but it only took the UK 12 to change. I think it was a mistake on RTENL/DCENR not to adopt T2 from the beginning... but that's in the past. A commercial wing to saorview may find T2 preferable.

My understanding is that there is a working group of DCENR and UK DCMS which are looking at among other things, interoperability issues for NI.

Well with the state of the goingdigital.ie website, I don't think the department have any interest in digital tv. Looks like they'd be happy to leave the whole switchover to RTE/Saorview.

STB

joceadaigh wrote: »

There is no guaranty that RTENL or anyone other future bradcaster/authority will not change to T2 some time in the future. I understand it is unlike in the near future, but it only took the UK 12 to change. I think it was a mistake on RTENL/DCENR not to adopt T2 from the beginning... but that's in the past. A commercial wing to saorview may find T2 preferable.

At the time our standard was decided upon, DVB-t2 wasnt an available platform in any event.

Regardless, DVB-T2 is a solution to countries with the problem of not having enough bandwidth and frequencies for the number of stations they have. The UK has this problem and with the advent of HD via MPEG4 and the bandwidth required for HD and its number of SD stations using lossy MPEG2 encoding, T2 was the solution to the UK's problem for even more efficient use of the spectrum to serve their 66million population.

Having a small population we don't have that problem. The DVB-T platform and the efficient MPEG4 codec are fine for HD delivery without limitation. It is unlikely that such a similar commercial selection of channels will ever be terrestrially available in Ireland. The advertising market size and the size of our population dictates this.

Most countries within Western Europe are using the DVB-T platform.

STB

The Cush wrote: »

Not much happening in this area according to Saorview: Brian - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76015283

Cush, I am sure some sort of workaround solution will be found regarding receiver interoperability without converging standards. Perhaps a more direct question for Brian perhaps rather than the one Sam asked.

championc

STB wrote: »

Then Panasonic released their 2nd range of Freesat Combo Tvs in mid 2009 - the G10b/15b range which again had shortcuts in the firmware for DVB-T reception in Ireland.

I wasn't aware that "b" models were made for the Irish market.

I fully accept that Panny have been completely "shortsighted" in their approach in alienating the Irish market. I also fully agree that it would seem that a simple change to their firmware would also have allowed the devices with MPEG-4 chipsets to tune in to Irish Broadcasts by identifying the 0x16 flag. However, it would seem from Panny's viewpoint that they are afraid to risk any changes to a firmware that successfully runs how many thousand sets in the UK - a market for which the sets were designed to primarily operate in.

My understanding too is that all combo sets made by Panny are also sold on the basis that the DVB-S tuners are for Freesat and I believe Freesat is supposed to be restricted to the UK audience only