SOPA- now with added ACTA

Doctor DooM

So yet another anti piracy/ government can do anything they bill is doing the rounds in congress and has lead to an epic PR fail from Capcom.

From the little I've read so far (and I'll wait til I read UltraDavid's inevitable post on the topic before I say anything for deffos) it seems this one is very similar to the last.

An organisation called the ESA (Entertainment Software Association) has come out in support of the bill.

The ESA represent many huge media corporations... including Capcom.

If I am understanding correctly, there was a piece on another, unrelated website saying Capcom, Sony, Nintendo and some others had withdrawn the ESA's stated support.

They actually didn't, it seems, but they've stayed remarkably quiet. they don't want to touch it, it seems.

Except for Capcom, who've come out and said the ESA represents their views on this matter.

Personally finding it quite difficult not to fly off the handle about this, and on the Big Two last night Spooky made several comments along the lines of "fine, if I am not wanted I can just go elsewhere". Capcom Unity has 2 threads full of people asking why the hell they did this.

SOPA apparently will be a terrible thing for internet usage in general in the States, outside of streaming. I need to find out more about it.

Fergus_

I was actually just reading about SOPA this morning.

Completely oppose this, this could potentially affect our scene with your channel could be closed down or prevented from uploading further couldn't it?

Doctor DooM

Fergus_ wrote: »

I was actually just reading about SOPA this morning.

Completely oppose this, this could potentially affect our scene with your channel could be closed down or prevented from uploading further couldn't it?

The likely outcome of SOPA passing in it's current form as I read it is that Youtube and any American video streaming site would immediately cease allowing any and all video game footage immediately, with permission from the developers or not, so yes.

I can see a future of possibly uploading to some Check site or something like that, but with Americans afraid to stream and popular sites unable to upload without risk of censure, it wouldn't be good for anyone involved with SF.

Sabre0001

You'd have to wonder if they're thinking about the backlash at all? They'll get control over streams (and a nice financial boost as a result), but is it really worth it. Capcom has said they'll look after people who have helped so you can assume that the likes of EVO, Cross Counter and so on would get licenses - but at what cost, both to the organisation and to the community at large.

Disappointing really...

K.O.Kiki

The worst thing is that *we* can't do jack-shít about it.

Doctor DooM

Sabre0001 wrote: »

You'd have to wonder if they're thinking about the backlash at all? They'll get control over streams (and a nice financial boost as a result), but is it really worth it. Capcom has said they'll look after people who have helped so you can assume that the likes of EVO, Cross Counter and so on would get licenses - but at what cost, both to the organisation and to the community at large.

Disappointing really...

Capcom wanting to help doesn't matter when the US govt. can jail anyone they feel like who's streaming/ uploading vids .. UNLESS Capcom are willing to grant people proper full licenses to stream.

Can anyone see Capcom granting me one, for example?

The fact they've supported the ESA's position is rather silly, to me too.

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

The worst thing is that *we* can't do jack-shít about it.

Yes, that really is the thing that grates, we've got to hope America comes to their senses...

Sabre0001

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Capcom wanting to help doesn't matter when the US govt. can jail anyone they feel like who's streaming/ uploading vids .. UNLESS Capcom are willing to grant people proper full licenses to stream.

Can anyone see Capcom granting me one, for example?

The fact they've supported the ESA's position is rather silly, to me too.



Yes, that really is the thing that grates, we've got to hope America comes to their senses...

Yeah, sorry that's what I mean. They'll have a license for EVO for example ($$$ likely), but the everyman is screwed. Wondering if they've weighed up pros and cons - i.e. money from own stream / license vs bad feeling and general community damage.

Doctor DooM

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Yeah, sorry that's what I mean. They'll have a license for EVO for example ($$$ likely), but the everyman is screwed. Wondering if they've weighed up pros and cons - i.e. money from own stream / license vs bad feeling and general community damage.

There's plenty of knee jerk reactionary posts on capcom-unity about the whole thing about boycotting capcom games. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. Would be a lot more interesting if the last 2 years of my work weren't at jeopardy

Doctor DooM

http://www.destructoid.com/hate-sopa-tell-the-esa-and-its-members--218936.phtml

Least people are trying!

albel nox

From what i have heard about SOPA and PITA over the last month or so is that its mainly big business out to sensor alot of independent productions so that they can make more money.

Thats about the gist from what i've read

PPC

I've heard that Google, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, PayPal and a few other big sites say that they will turn their sites offline if SOPA comes in.
Hopefully these companies have enough power to resist this bill coming in.

Misty Chaos

I've being following the whole SOPA debacle on Reddit the past while. Can't say I know the ins and out of it but what I do know is that it is seriously bad news and am obviously against it.

Its a massive mess if you ask me and comes down to nothing more than massive hollywood corporations just trying to protect their bloated profits ( not to mention turn the internet into an equivalent of cable, which no right thinking person wants! :mad: )

Doctor DooM

albel nox wrote: »

From what i have heard about SOPA and PITA over the last month or so is that its mainly big business out to sensor alot of independent productions so that they can make more money.

Thats about the gist from what i've read

The basic gist is that it'll be hyper easy to prosecute for pirating. This is what they want, and I don't necessarily disagree that it's way too easy to pirate, so yes it's completely about money.

The side effect (which some people might also call the main effect) is that yes, it appears a large business will be able to sabotage any net based presence quite easily... So whatever the initial intent it, it could certainly be used the way you say.

(This is all from my laymans understanding and I am very open to correction til I hear from someone who knows better).

PPC wrote: »

I've heard that Google, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, PayPal and a few other big sites say that they will turn their sites offline if SOPA comes in.
Hopefully these companies have enough power to resist this bill coming in.

As pointed out above, I don't see how any one of these businesses would be able to continue unimpeeded as the website will be responsible for the actions of those posting on it (I really can't believe that, it seems incredible in the literal sense of the word) so yes, it would be the end I think of the viable US presence for a lot of them.

Again, assuming the people I have been reading up from aren't conspiracy theory loonies

albel nox

PPC wrote: »

I've heard that Google, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, PayPal and a few other big sites say that they will turn their sites offline if SOPA comes in.
Hopefully these companies have enough power to resist this bill coming in.

As far as i am aware, American people can go to the local governor or whatever it is and protest against it to them. If enough complain the governor or what would have to oppose the bill as no matter how much funding he would get for his re-election there would be no point if he angered all his would be voters and wouldn't get another term in his position.

Owwmykneecap

The money behind SOPA is crazy big. It will pass.

As for the blackout, Alexis from Reddit has tried contacting the sites with little response.

If anyone will do it it will be Wikipedia, in fact I think it was essentially Jimmy Wales' idea.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/83688294/

Orim

It's not just with politicians , it can be done with businesses. I know that Godaddy in the states has withdrawn it's support after a boycott of thier services. So that is something that is possible for anyone that uses American companies that are supporting the bill.

EDIT : The bad news is that this is what? The fourth or fifth time in the last year or so that the same bill has esstentially been tried. There's enough money behind that I reckon it will just keep getting pushed till it passes.

Doctor DooM

Three ESA members stand against them.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/05/esa-member-epic-games-speaks-out-against-sopa/

You're looking awfully **** right now, capcom.

K.O.Kiki

Rock Paper Shotgun have a list of ESA members for/against/undeclared.

PPC

Capcom have given some info on their stance

Capcom Forums wrote:

Link
Guys, a few points:

1. We are members of the ESA (along side pretty much every other major publisher in our industry).

2. We've only ever stated that the ESA represents us in legislative matters (again, like every other publisher). We have not stated any stance on our support (or not) for SOPA. Inferring more than that is bad journalism (which seems to be rampant based upon the rereporting of a six word response to inquiry).

3. Months ago I've commented that streaming folks/video uploading have absolutely nothing to worry about. We've always been very accomodating to our supporters (and as this thread would demonstrate, even our detractors) and I don't ever see that changing.

The ESA is working with representatives to improve solutions to what is a real problem. For more details, Gamasutra had a statement from the ESA that states:

"As an industry of innovators and creators, we understand the importance of both technological innovation and content protection, and do not believe the two are mutually exclusive. Rogue websites -- those singularly devoted to profiting from their blatant illegal piracy -- restrict demand for legitimate video game products and services, thereby costing jobs."

"Our industry needs effective remedies to address this specific problem, and we support the House and Senate proposals to achieve this objective. We are mindful of concerns raised about a negative impact on innovation. We look forward to working with the House and Senate, and all interested parties, to find the right balance and define useful remedies to combat willful wrongdoers that do not impede lawful product and business model innovation."

At Capcom, we're game makers, not legislators. We do not have an internal stance on this particular issue and are not planning to. We'll get back to making games. Thanks.

Doctor DooM

Capcom have given some info on their stance

Capcom Forums wrote:

Link
Guys, a few points:

1. We are members of the ESA (along side pretty much every other major publisher in our industry).

2. We've only ever stated that the ESA represents us in legislative matters (again, like every other publisher). We have not stated any stance on our support (or not) for SOPA. Inferring more than that is bad journalism (which seems to be rampant based upon the rereporting of a six word response to inquiry).

3. Months ago I've commented that streaming folks/video uploading have absolutely nothing to worry about. We've always been very accomodating to our supporters (and as this thread would demonstrate, even our detractors) and I don't ever see that changing.

The ESA is working with representatives to improve solutions to what is a real problem. For more details, Gamasutra had a statement from the ESA that states:

"As an industry of innovators and creators, we understand the importance of both technological innovation and content protection, and do not believe the two are mutually exclusive. Rogue websites -- those singularly devoted to profiting from their blatant illegal piracy -- restrict demand for legitimate video game products and services, thereby costing jobs."

"Our industry needs effective remedies to address this specific problem, and we support the House and Senate proposals to achieve this objective. We are mindful of concerns raised about a negative impact on innovation. We look forward to working with the House and Senate, and all interested parties, to find the right balance and define useful remedies to combat willful wrongdoers that do not impede lawful product and business model innovation."

At Capcom, we're game makers, not legislators. We do not have an internal stance on this particular issue and are not planning to. We'll get back to making games. Thanks.

Hmm. The only way, once again, that someone like me will have "nothing to worry about" is if I get a free license from them.

Not that it will matter if youtube doesn't exist in its current form because this bill will pass.

Nice sidestep Capcom, but your peers are still coming out against this, and it will still negatively impact your games.

Sabre0001

Sounds like they're backpeddling once again. Seems to be the way Capcom is playing lately. Come out with something...wait for reaction and alter behaviour based on it.

And as Doom says, it could be all for show. If YouTube and other hosting sites decide to play it super safe, it won't matter what their stance is.

What they need to do is provide an actual, clarified stance - i.e. we're against it and making our thoughts known to ESA.

albel nox

Thats just the type of BS you'd expect from a company like Crapcom.

They don't wanna say they're against it but not saying it makes them look bad to the people who buy there games. So they can just hide behind this ESA (ohhh we're like everyone else durrr) crap as if it removes they're abilities to make decisions.

This whole thing is a real shame, its just corporate censorship. It a huge blow to communities like this which are some of the greatest examples of use of the internet IMO.

Orim

Give them a chance guys they're obviously busy coming up with new gems for us to buy.

albel nox

But how will we hear about them!? Noooooo!

Plumpynuter

This is worrying but its not only the laws but enforcement by the companies that's important. There are loads of copyrighted material on streams and youtube but only some companies enforce their rights. If Capcom decided that only one person/company could stream their games then it would be detrimental to their brand. I am sure they know that (Capcom's Solicitors and Accountants excluded :rolleyes:).

Taking Call of Duty as an example. It is all over the web and far more popular then fighting games on youtube. They are incorporating instant recording and uploading into their games to encourage this practice. If somebody in the future was to make big money from streams they might want a share. Modern media companies would much rather partner themselves with companies then restrict them from streaming. For the games companies the price of the ticket is the game. Did any of you see the attempt from Activision to make their own show on COD elite. It ended up so far as no more then celebrity COD with players throwing grenades at choppers. They must have got a TV company to make it. Shiny but sh1te.

Its all about intellectual property and brand protection. If one game makes it mainstream (TV or huge ratings for streams, millions of viewers) as it where then the company that makes the game will want their share and control of how their brand is portrayed.

What can you do? It might mean in the long run, real sponsorship and big prizes and investment. They will always want local tournaments and streams. I still think that the UFC model is the model for fighting games in the future. We are a generation away from the visuals and production of fighting games getting to a level that they will go mainstream but I do think it will happen.

Some of the lads are looking for pay per view on streams at the mo and it is just not worth it for the production and professionalism of the streams.

Plumpynuter

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Capcom have given some info on their stance


Hmm. The only way, once again, that someone like me will have "nothing to worry about" is if I get a free license from them.

Not that it will matter if youtube doesn't exist in its current form because this bill will pass.

Nice sidestep Capcom, but your peers are still coming out against this, and it will still negatively impact your games.

True it is more the vagueness of their position that is the problem.

Doctor DooM

Plumpynuter wrote: »

This is worrying but its not only the laws but enforcement by the companies that's important. There are loads of copyrighted material on streams and youtube but only some companies enforce their rights. If Capcom decided that only one person/company could stream their games then it would be detrimental to their brand. I am sure they know that (Capcom's Solicitors and Accountants excluded :rolleyes:).

Actually, the whole point about this and the last 2 bills is that it will take away the control from Capcom and hand it over to the US govt. They will be able to prosecute regardless of Capcom's desires.

Plumpynuter

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Actually, the whole point about this and the last 2 bills is that it will take away the control from Capcom and hand it over to the US govt. They will be able to prosecute regardless of Capcom's desires.

:eek: not good

Vyze

What's to stop non-American events and recordings, though? If a video sharing website not hosted in America (say, Nico Video) allows people from Europe, Japan, etc to upload videos from non-US games, the US government can't do much, can they?

Doctor DooM

Vyze wrote: »

What's to stop non-American events and recordings, though? If a video sharing website not hosted in America (say, Nico Video) allows people from Europe, Japan, etc to upload videos from non-US games, the US government can't do much, can they?

100% correct and I am already starting to use another provider than youtube for the odd video myself. If the worse came to worst I'd certainly try to continue, myself.

The thing is- you can't just remove America from fighting games. So many of the characters, the hype and tbh the money comes from there. I'm sure where the video is hosted is irrevelant if it's uploaded FROM America. That loophole pretty much doesn't exist from what I've heard.

Financially, America is a huge market too. Capcom, Arksys, SNK and what have you might be able to survive with 25-50% of their market vanishing but they certainly won't thrive, and the market will certainly shrink if this comes to pass.

Plumpynuter

:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhwuXNv8fJM

Doctor DooM

I made a short vid linking to that one.

Felt I had to do something.

PPC

If this goes through, I think everyone should email copyrighted content to the US government and then request their servers be taken down.

K.O.Kiki

eLive Pro throwing their weight against SOPA/PIPA

eLive Pro wrote:

A decision has to be taken and in this war, there is no hiding. As a Silicon Valley company and as a defender of the Liberty, we will stop supporting games, tournament, events and everything related to pro-SOPA editors.

I understand it’s a very big bummer, and trust me, I ain’t happy about this, but we can’t let these people take our freedom away.
eLive, and all the US eLive staffs, have signed the anti-censorship petitions and I will attend the different anti-SOPA/PIPA meeting in California.

Once again, there is no hiding and everything different from a clear “we are against SOPA/PIPA” is a pro-SOPA/PIPA action. I will personally mail and ask Capcom, SNK-P and Namco about their positions and from their answers, eLive will continue or hibernate its actions in Fighting Games.

Of course, no matter what, we won’t block people talking about these games on eLive.pro but eLive will definitely stop promoting games by sending players to events.

Doctor DooM

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/jan/08/team-elive-pro-twitchtv-stand-against-sopa/


Twitch.tv moving against GoDaddy just as destructioid did...

Also SOPA seems to have gone caustic in several places in America. It's looking good that it and PIPA might get shot down.

C'mon America.

ayjayirl

Doctor DooM wrote: »

C'mon America.

....for Freedom!

ayjayirl

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/desopa/

http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-dancing-add-on-kills-dns-and-ip-blockades-111130/

Example of how the internet beasts legislation. ggs.

1man3letters

damn after watching that video my eyes have been opened :eek:
(thanks for posting it plumpynuter)

i thought of this as why would game companies not want free advertising for there games but holy crud it goes ALOT deeper than that

so if this goes through it will be like living in china with bush as president :mad:

K.O.Kiki

Um... Bush hasn't been the president of the USA for about 4 years now...

1man3letters

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Um... Bush hasn't been the president of the USA for about 4 years now...

yes kiki i know this
but seeing as his administration was a censoring cover up piece of garbage i think my statement still valid

K.O.Kiki

TBH Obama's one isn't looking much better...

1man3letters

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

TBH Obama's one isn't looking much better...

yea i dont care for that puppet either,promises change...changes promises

Doctor DooM

In case people aren't following, some interesting developments in this.

Reddit are having a 12 hour black out to protest SOPA. This has lead to widespread media coverage in America, which is actually making reddit more and more popular. Apparently Wikipedia is in discussion among its board about how to join them.

MLG is one of the latest to drop goDaddy as their hosting firm (one of the original major advocates of SOPA). GoDaddy have now rescinded their support of the bill.

I've seen a couple of news articles saying the bills have gone caustic (meaning being attached to them would be dangerous for a congressman) but I don't know if that's wishful thinking or not.

powerofscience

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I've seen a couple of news articles saying the bills have gone caustic (meaning being attached to them would be dangerous for a congressman) but I don't know if that's wishful thinking or not.

This is pretty true, it used to have quite a lot of support until recently. But now congressmen are dropping support left and right. Probably in part due to the large amount of emails, phone calls, letters, and stuff they received from people angry about their support of SOPA. I was one of the people who sent my congressman a letter, well an email actually. I know that many people set up to have in person meetings with congressmen as well to explain how dangerous SOPA is, and what it could mean for the internet and freedom of speech in general.

I know that the bill failed to pass Congress, but it's not completely dead. Although from what I've heard, and seen, it appears to be hemorrhaging support rapidly and it'll only be a matter of time before it is dropped. Though that could be wishful thinking.

chopperbyrne

Now Americans need to make sure PIPA isn't sneaked through in its wake.

powerofscience

1man3letters wrote: »

but seeing as his administration was a censoring cover up piece of garbage i think my statement still valid

Not entirely true, it's not quite so simple.

1man3letters wrote: »

yea i dont care for that puppet either,promises change...changes promises

This is for sure true.

"All the troops out of Iraq in 6 months" *sends in a **** load more troops*

powerofscience

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Now Americans need to make sure PIPA isn't sneaked through in its wake.

This isn't the first time PIPA's showed up. They've been trying to pass it for years and it gets shot down every time. I'm not too worried about it.

Doctor DooM

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Now Americans need to make sure PIPA isn't sneaked through in its wake.

powerofscience wrote: »

This isn't the first time PIPA's showed up. They've been trying to pass it for years and it gets shot down every time. I'm not too worried about it.

It only needs the one time to pass.

I'm worried people will see PIPA as the slightly friendlier version of SOPA.

powerofscience

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It only needs the one time to pass.

I'm worried ponies will see PIPA as the slightly friendlier version of SOPA.

While that is one of the many possibilities of the Continuum Shift. I think it is more likely that politicians will be afraid to support anything that resembles SOPA, due to how unpopular it is. This bill has popped up under different names in different states many times over the years and has never passed. As long as SOPA remains caustic, then I think no one will want to support anything like it.

Even if SOPA does die I doubt this is the last we'll hear of it or PIPA. Some politician will always want to use this as a scapegoat to make it look like they're doing something while ignoring the real problems we have, like our declining education, or our rising unemployment, or, oh yeah our outrageously high national debt.

Oh America... *sigh*


http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I want to cry every time I see this.

Goody2shoes15

powerofscience wrote: »

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I want to cry every time I see this.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Compare the stars and stripes to the tricolour on this...:(

powerofscience

Goody2shoes15 wrote: »

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Compare the stars and stripes to the tricolour on this...:(

Wow, suddenly I don't feel so bad. But, remember your country is the size of the state I lived in, and we've got 50 of 'em, and that's not counting our territories. Still, Ireland has the highest percentage of external debt by a large margin, I had no idea. I suppose it makes sense though, a lot of things are imported here right?

I'm moving to China, screw this crap. Oh wait, I am moving to China . But still as an American . Damn you Joe!