FTP - Functional Threshold Power....how big is yours!!

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

tunney wrote: »

I don't have that much faith in DCs reviews to be honest.

Confusing lots of pictures with critical analysis I believe.

I like pictures.

tunney

Miles Embarrassed Ubiquity wrote: »

Not lab tested but DC has done it in that link above, P2M reading 6w lower out on the road compared to PT and they are similar indoors but i would expect the PT to read lower indoors.

He tested on a very narrow range of power. Basically 150-250.

Interesting bit is

15-20 minute section:
PowerTap Average: 171.6
Power2Max Average: 161.3
Variance: 6.3%
50-55 minute section:
PowerTap Average: 207.1
Power2Max Average: 201.5
Variance: 2.7%

The difference isn't consistent here. Given both are claimed +/- 2% 4% would be the max you'd expect for the delta, and you'd expect this to be different.

When I got my CT I found a contact who used to work for Racermate and he gave me a protocol to determine the difference between a PM and the CT and then told me how you could (off the record) change the CT to match. This protocol had lots of big words in it and was rather comprehensive. Something like this would be good. Not "I just rode for an hour"

tunney

Miles Embarrassed Ubiquity wrote: »

So "a watt is watt" really depends on what you use so:)

Which is fine as long as your unit is always consistent.

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

Which is fine as long as your unit is always consistent.

Mine is consistently all over the place, is that the same thing? :rolleyes:

Tranche

mrbungle wrote: »

Hey!

I ran my power pilot and P2M together the other night for 80min doing various drills, warmup, Z4 12mins, easy, Z4 12mins and a few other bits after.
I uploaded both files into TP and compared the summaries and trend and from what I could make out the P2M was reading 9-10% lower than the PowerPilot.

I'm sticking with the P2M as it'll be used for turbo/road/racing for consistency.

@mrbungle

Running same 2 PM's as well and I am noticing around a 5% difference between the P2M and the Power Pilot, with the P2M recording the lower figure. Using the P2M numbers now, even though they are lower, as this will be my race PM.

El Director

Later today I become a REAL man

pgibbo

El Director wrote: »

Later today I become a REAL man

Assuming you don't blow up!!!! :pac:

sconhome

El Director wrote: »

Later today I become a REAL man

You got your big buoy last weekend, what's kept you?

dx22

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 253 watts |231 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|203.3 watts|2.36|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|200 watts|3.07| 227watts|3.5|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|211 watts|3.11| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M


Getting there gradually!

El Director

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 253 watts |231 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|203.3 watts|2.36|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|200 watts|3.07| 227watts|3.5|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|211 watts|3.11| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
El Director|287 watts|287 watts|3.7|300watts|4|T5+T20*.95|Quarq SRAM Red


First FTP yesterday for me. Paced okay I think and slightly higher than I thought it would be. Report later tonight/tomorrow but file here.

BennyMul

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 231 watts |255 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|203.3 watts|2.36|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|200 watts|3.07| 227watts|3.5|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|211 watts|3.11| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
El Director|287 watts|287 watts|3.7|300watts|4|T5+T20*.95|Quarq SRAM Red


Back to where I was this time last year but starting to think I have hit my FTP limit. still a load of weight to drop which at the moment is harder that increasing my FTP.

Tranche

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 231 watts |255 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|203.3 watts|2.36|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|200 watts|3.07| 227watts|3.5|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|230 watts|3.42| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
El Director|287 watts|287 watts|3.7|300watts|4|T5+T20*.95|Quarq SRAM Red

9% increase in one month. Happy enough. 4 months to reach my goal.

Green&Red

I'm told that 270W will see me break the hour mark for a 40k TT, anyone able to verify this? Or give a good estimate?

Presuming a good TT bike setup

Fazz

Green&Red wrote: »

I'm told that 270W will see me break the hour mark for a 40k TT, anyone able to verify this? Or give a good estimate?

Presuming a good TT bike setup

Means nothing if you're over 70kg.

Means less if lacking depth in endurance.

Finally, wind/course/aero position etc.

At a guess, on a flat route assuming good aero position and endurance id say ftp of 4.4 ish wouldn't be far off.

I did a 57 I think in Athlone, on around 4.2/4.3 and medium depth/endurance at best last year.
It wasn't 40k though but avg speed was just shy of 40 - think 39 odd kph for it.
So ftp of 4.4 w/kg should cover it.

tunney

Fazz wrote: »

Means nothing if you're over 70kg.

Means less if lacking depth in endurance.

Finally, wind/course/aero position etc.

At a guess, on a flat route assuming good aero position and endurance id say ftp of 4.4 ish wouldn't be far off.

I did a 57 I think in Athlone, on around 4.2/4.3 and medium depth/endurance at best last year.
It wasn't 40k though but avg speed was just shy of 40 - think 39 odd kph for it.
So ftp of 4.4 w/kg should cover it.

On a flat(ish) course w/kg isn't that important at all, it's all about w/CdA

Fazz

tunney wrote: »

On a flat(ish) course w/kg isn't that important at all, it's all about w/CdA

True, but that's even harder to measure/quantify in the real world though?

Hence a rough guesstimate at w/kg first for a basic answer, but we know there are many many variables so even my guess is not worth much really.

d4r3n

Fazz wrote: »

True, but that's even harder to measure/quantify in the real world though?

Hence a rough guesstimate at w/kg first for a basic answer, but we know there are many many variables so even my guess is not worth much really.

220 - 300 watts (depending on equipment) should see you hit 40 kph average according to here

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Ask LCD, he near held it for 200kms in Abu Dhabi:)

BennyMul

a nice piece on using Power or HR.
http://www.sigmacoaching.com/using-power-or-heart-rate-vol-1/#more-1075

tunney

Fazz wrote: »

True, but that's even harder to measure/quantify in the real world though?

Hence a rough guesstimate at w/kg first for a basic answer, but we know there are many many variables so even my guess is not worth much really.

CdA is actually pretty easy to measure in the field using inexpensive equipment (a power meter and a few other things) Provided you have the software and the know how.

tunney

BennyMul wrote: »

a nice piece on using Power or HR.
http://www.sigmacoaching.com/using-power-or-heart-rate-vol-1/#more-1075

A case of trying to get a name but going against the grain. Doesn't mean he is right at all

Seen a few cases of "I'm different as a coach there fore AMAZING"

Left with a feeling of "total boll0cks" after reading

tunney

tunney wrote: »

CdA is actually pretty easy to measure in the field using inexpensive equipment (a power meter and a few other things) Provided you have the software and the know how.

sorry for the vagueness earlier, house full of sickness (well just the girls), messy.....

Anyways look at golden cheetah with aerolab plugin works off virtual elevation. Key thing being to know the height of the hill in question, GPS doesn't do height and barometer isn't close enough so detailed maps OSI maps or surveyors equipment.

peter kern

BennyMul wrote: »

a nice piece on using Power or HR.
http://www.sigmacoaching.com/using-power-or-heart-rate-vol-1/#more-1075

I would be interested why you think this is a nice article
it says
-heart pumps "nutrients" to muscle
-their is 3 energy systems
-power dosnt tell you when the tank is empty( i dodnt really think anybody even the biggest advocates have expected a powermeter to do that )
and only metabolic testing will tell you how to train proper.




If that guy writes an Article about "Zones" and "periodisation" please post it.

sconhome

The message I got from the post (and why I thanked it) was that HR can be a cheap, accurate and efficient way of judging your athletic performance and potential in training as it is a direct connection to your system.

Focus on achieving a particular wattage does not necessarily take account of fatigue or energy levels within the muscles.

tunney

amphkingwest wrote: »

The message I got from the post (and why I thanked it) was that HR can be a cheap, accurate and efficient way of judging your athletic performance and potential in training as it is a direct connection to your system.

Focus on achieving a particular wattage does not necessarily take account of fatigue or energy levels within the muscles.

If you actually believe the second paragraph above then you really need help with your power meter.

As for the first paragraph there are about as many holes and issues as the article. (Okay the article had way more but it was much longer)

BennyMul

peter kern wrote: »

I would be interested why you think this is a nice article
it says
-heart pumps "nutrients" to muscle
-their is 3 energy systems
-power dosnt tell you when the tank is empty( i dodnt really think anybody even the biggest advocates have expected a powermeter to do that )
and only metabolic testing will tell you how to train proper.




If that guy writes an Article about "Zones" and "periodisation" please post it.

Hi Peter,
Why I found it interesting is over the past time I have been using the PM and only this, but I feel that this is a one dimensional view, where as introducing the HR element adds extra,
Now I may be off but when I read it did make some sense but I may be easily fooled,

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

If you actually believe the second paragraph above then you really need help with your power meter.

As for the first paragraph there are about as many holes and issues as the article. (Okay the article had way more but it was much longer)

Think the 'help needed' is a given.

I suppose what I got from reading the piece (& by no means gospel, its another viewpoint) is similar to where I've been with training.

HR by itself has been a good system for me to monitor and improve fitness. Power is also proving to be a good system for me, but it is the combination of both which is working best.

I think this article joined the dots a little bit for me in this respect.

sconhome

BennyMul wrote: »

Hi Peter,
Why I found it interesting is over the past time I have been using the PM and only this, but I feel that this is a one dimensional view, where as introducing the HR element adds extra,
Now I may be off but when I read it did make some sense but I may be easily fooled,

Funnily enough I think we are looking at it from either end. I'm coming from a HR based training background and adding power to the equation and your doing power and looking at HR.

peter kern

amphkingwest wrote: »

Funnily enough I think we are looking at it from either end. I'm coming from a HR based training background and adding power to the equation and your doing power and looking at HR.

should you not look at it from the centre ;-) and at the centre should always be the brain. ( even cheaper than hr )
if you want to supplement the brain fine but neither hr or powermeter can replace the brain.

what i would suggest is that anybody reads something special from that article is that they are very suceptible to fall for anything that sounds a bit sciency when their is not much meat in it.
anyway I guess their is a part 2 comming so it would be equally wrong to say its a ot of BS.

sconhome

I agree Peter, the body is central to the whole equation, articles like that sometimes help join the dots of understanding though.