Boxer in dirty protest!!!

sineadc1984

Hi,
We are at our wits end with our boxer pup. He's 5 months old now and gorgeous in fact he is the perfect dog especially with our 15month old daughter apart from his "dirty protests" as we're calling them!!

Basically when he's left by himself he poo's everywhere and when I say poo I mean diarrohea. We have had him since he was 8 weeks old & Myself and my daughter are at home all day most days the most he is ever really left alone is about 4/5 hours and he has the run of the garden and a double insulated kennel when we are out.

When we are here he potters around the house with us and is put out for his food in the morning&evening and left out for an hour or 2 for fresh air he goes in and out all day no accidents in the house he heads to the back door everytime he needs to go out, he's been trained to go in a specific area and he does most of the time, no major problems with that. The problem is when he's been inside for a few hours if I need to put him out for any reason. I bring him out & i leave only to come back to him after pooing all over the back doorstep infront of the door!! When it's cold out he's allowed sleep inside he has his bed in the utility room nice and cosy in his crate he slept there last night and we got up this morning to his dirty protest all over the floor. Maybe we should have locked him in his crate but this has only started in the last month we always left the door of the crate open for him to stretch his legs during the night. Ive googled it and from all I can find is separation anxeity could this be the case? Anyone any ideas how to deal with it?

planetX

look into his diet first, there may be a physical cause to the diarrhea - especially with him doing it at night.

Honey-ec

As PlanetX said, I'd be taking a long, hard look at his diet; he definitely shouldn't have diarrhea on a regular basis, his stools should be nice and firm, so there's definitely something wrong there.

Diet aside, 5 months is still very young and it would be normal for a dog to still be having accidents at that age. It can take up to a year for some dogs to be completely house-trained.

But seriously, do look at his food, because long-term diarrhea is going to be very hard on him.

meoklmrk91

As other posters have said take a look at his food. I have a boxer and he was 8 months before he was house trained to the point where he could be trusted. They just can't hold it for very long when they are puppies.

Boxers have notoriously bad tummys, and long term diarroea is not right, when he goes in the back yard or on walks does he have solid or runny poos, or is it just specifically these protests?

What food is he on at the moment?

toadfly

I agree it might be a problem with food. I've had my staff lose about 25% of her body weight through diarrhoea over about 6 weeks. She is now on a specialist medicated food and has gained 1.15kg kg in 2 weeks. She more then likely has an intolerance and we still have to figure out what it is that's causing it.

Have you taken him to the vet?

david75

You're leaving him outside at night? did i read that right? double insulated or not, the kennel is outside, boxers are an indoor breed and if he were allowed to live inside, you'd find he'd respect the house a lot more as he feels he belongs and wouldn't be pooing inside on you. that said, if it's diarrhea, then there's definitely something wrong. Weigh him every 2 days and take him to the vet and make sure he has water available all the time.
hope he gets better!

sineadc1984

Cheers for all the replies!!
We have changed his food back to Wafcol he was on a different one and it really didn't agree with him he was having diarreha when out for walks aswell as all over the yard. Since he's been on that his stools have been like there supposed to be apart from when he's left on his own.

With the toilet training I'm expecting accidents but what was waiting for me this morning was unnatural and I've been keeping an eye all day and his stools are fine.

@David yeah most nights he is outside as the vet had told us at his last check-up that once it wasn't below 5degrees he was fine and then we told him about the kennel he said he's fine outside so unless it's been below 5degrees he's been outside. That's a good point though maybe because we are letting him in most of the day until we're going to bed and then he's being put out in the cold it's stressing him out

I might see how he goes tonight and call by the tomorrow.

niallam

We've tried him on Clinivet puppy food and Wafcol puppy food, both were recommended because supposed to be hypoallergenic and easy on his stomach. he's been on the Wafcol only for the last 2 months.
Some googling suggested that because puppy food has more nutrients they need more fat in them and this causes diarrhea but some days it's solid now and others it's not. It's not like we're using a cheap food which i would understand maybe causing stomach problems.
His poo has never been solid but always more of a toothpaste texture, not hard but not runny.
He's house trained, took hours outside while he was a puppy to do it but he wont go inside if he's in all day, let him out once an hour to pee and poo if he needs and only sh1ts inside the moment he's put in the back hall at night and the door closed.
He's fed at 9am and 5pm, last night after his dinner he had 2 poo's outside, 1 at about 7 and 1 at about 10pm.
Another reason we believe he's doing it in protest when he's put out is because he's moved his poo area, i used to clean it every 2 days (on concrete) but now it could be fully clear and he continues to poo right on the doorstep instead. 3 times a day i've been cleaning it some days because cant step out the door.

@david75 - he's a dog, i don't believe in an "inside dog", 4' x 4' custom built kennel for him, puppy treats when he's good inside but he's still a dog, i'm not going to have him at the kitchen table sharing dinner or in the bed between us, the vet said keep under 4c keep him in BUT given the fact he has a good kennel then 0c is no problem, its when the temp drops under 0c is when to bring him inside which just makes poo everywhere the second the door closes.

He was 16kg's at 4 and 1/2 months but will weigh him again tonight but his weight isn't being effected in any way.

planetX

I'm not mad on the thread title - it makes it sound like the dog is doing this on purpose. He's a 5 month old pup! It isn't right to have such runny poos, if it isn't diet it could possibly be a viral tummy bug, some kind of doggy cold? If it is purely from stress then you need to look at the causes - if it's all over the doorstep is the dog fretting to get inside? Having the run of the garden on his own is not necessarily a good thing, most dogs aren't interested in exploring without a person around.

Just an idea - are you giving him any chews? They give my dog the runs.

niallam

planetX wrote: »

I'm not mad on the thread title - it makes it sound like the dog is doing this on purpose. He's a 5 month old pup! It isn't right to have such runny poos, if it isn't diet it could possibly be a viral tummy bug, some kind of doggy cold? If it is purely from stress then you need to look at the causes - if it's all over the doorstep is the dog fretting to get inside? Having the run of the garden on his own is not necessarily a good thing, most dogs aren't interested in exploring without a person around.

Just an idea - are you giving him any chews? They give my dog the runs.

He is usually outside from when he's put out at 11pm or later at night until probably once he has had his first poo after his breakfast 9-10am (60% of daily total food), then he's in all day, walked at some stage during the afternoon until i get home from work and walk him again. Then he gets his dinner at 5-6pm, the remaining 40%, and he's out again until the baby goes to bed at about 8ish and he's back in until its time to go back out for bed.
Better life than most dogs might have probably
I'll stop all his treats for a week now and see if that makes any difference.
He does know what he's doing though because he gives you that "i've just been bold" look.

tk123

Ok what stands out to me (i'm too lazy to do loads of quotes - sorry! :pac:)

1 - he's a 5 month old baby with the runs from something you're feeding him - he's not trying to take a stand against you by pooing everywhere

2 - Different foods suit different dogs - you may need to try different types until you find one that suits your dog. There's no boxers in the gang in our park so I can't advise but some posters here have boxers so they may be able to advise on what diets work for their dogs

3 - Puppies and dogs with upset tummies need small meals often - 2 meals a day may be more than he can handle at this stage. My guy was still on 3 or 4 meals a day at that age.. if the meals are too big it can give them the runs

5 - Cut out all treats for the time being as they could be the problem. Put some of his food in a lunch box/jar and use that as treats - he'll still see it as a treat if it comes from the jar. You want to do a process of elimination so say he's fine with his food then you add in one type of treat and see what happens etc.

4 - Close the door of the crate at night - you want him settled and asleep where he can't get up to puppy mischief!

5 - Puppies are happy when they have a routine so maybe think of keeping him inside in the crate at night (as the weather is crap at the moment) until his tummy has settled down - at least this way you can rule chopping and changing between in out as adding to the problem.

6 - If he's inside at dinner time he can go into his crate with the door closed and be trained to sit quietly - you don't need to buy him a high chair and bib to sit at the table with you

7 - You're not allowed ask questions about puppies without showing us pics!!!

EDIT
8 - Re the 'bold look' - he's trying to appease you - ie he's reacting to you/your tone/bodylanguahe not what he's done. Are you giving out to him/have you punished him for having an accident?!

andreac

Im getting confused, who owns this dog, Niallam or Sineadc1984??

star-pants

andreac wrote: »

Im getting confused, who owns this dog, Niallam or Sineadc1984??

I think it might be they both do? or at least both accounts belong to the one family and maybe accidentally posting from the other.

Honey-ec

andreac wrote: »

Im getting confused, who owns this dog, Niallam or Sineadc1984??

I'm guessing they're a couple who both post.

Have to :rolleyes: at the implication that all people who allow their dogs to live inside have them begging from the table and sleeping in the bed with them, though.

niallam

Yes he's our dog and we both post I'm just better at typing more waffle

tk123 wrote: »

Ok what stands out to me (i'm too lazy to do loads of quotes - sorry! :pac:)

1 - he's a 5 month old baby with the runs from something you're feeding him - he's not trying to take a stand against you by pooing everywhere

2 - Different foods suit different dogs - you may need to try different types until you find one that suits your dog. There's no boxers in the gang in our park so I can't advise but some posters here have boxers so they may be able to advise on what diets work for their dogs

3 - Puppies and dogs with upset tummies need small meals often - 2 meals a day may be more than he can handle at this stage. My guy was still on 3 or 4 meals a day at that age.. if the meals are too big it can give them the runs

5 - Cut out all treats for the time being as they could be the problem. Put some of his food in a lunch box/jar and use that as treats - he'll still see it as a treat if it comes from the jar. You want to do a process of elimination so say he's fine with his food then you add in one type of treat and see what happens etc.

4 - Close the door of the crate at night - you want him settled and asleep where he can't get up to puppy mischief!

5 - Puppies are happy when they have a routine so maybe think of keeping him inside in the crate at night (as the weather is crap at the moment) until his tummy has settled down - at least this way you can rule chopping and changing between in out as adding to the problem.

6 - If he's inside at dinner time he can go into his crate with the door closed and be trained to sit quietly - you don't need to buy him a high chair and bib to sit at the table with you

7 - You're not allowed ask questions about puppies without showing us pics!!!

EDIT
8 - Re the 'bold look' - he's trying to appease you - ie he's reacting to you/your tone/bodylanguahe not what he's done. Are you giving out to him/have you punished him for having an accident?!

i'll reply to each one

1 - dont know if it's in protest but he knows he's doing it, within 1 min of the door closing he poo's everywhere, and always diarrhea.

2- He's been on the same food for over 2 months now and the runs is only a new thing with him. He's been on it since the start but we tried Clinivet, because it was on a 50% off offer, and it didnt agree with him so changed back to the Wafcol, actually probably 3ish months now.

3- He's been on 2 feeds a day since we got him at 8 weeks old. Roughly 40g per kg of body weight is his rough amount. Not sure if it's too much or enough but thats what he gets

4- have cut all the treats since yesterday.

5 - He's inside when under about 4c but will be outside when over that. It doesnt matter whether he's in or out though. Inside he instantly poo's on the floor once the door closes and outside he poo's on the doorstep (not in his usual area) in the same time frame.

6 - He actually sits in his bed without moving when we have dinner, he's very well behaved in everything else he does too and brilliant with the baby.

7 - i'll find a pic

8 - He's never been punished for having an accident, when i was house training him i spend anything up to 40 mins outside at a time with him to wee at night outside, he still had the odd accident put i'd just pick him up and put him outside when he did, he never once had a poo inside until this problem started, he'd go on the papers we'd have down alright in the back hall where he sleeps when he was younger

I know he's nervous and that's what causing this problem, he doesn't like being left alone and it's probably because we have him inside with us so much that he feels lonely and anxious when he's put to bed on his own, i'm not getting into his bed and reading him a story till he's asleep lol . But it's how to fix the problem that has me to be honest????

Honey-ec wrote: »

I'm guessing they're a couple who both post.

Have to :rolleyes: at the implication that all people who allow their dogs to live inside have them begging from the table and sleeping in the bed with them, though.

I didn't imply that ALL people who let their dogs live inside have them at that, just i'm not one to have it. I've had house dogs since i was a baby, sometimes up to 4 at the one time over the last 30 years but they slept outside as well until the weather got too cold as i do with my pup now.

DBB

niallam wrote: »

I know he's nervous and that's what causing this problem, he doesn't like being left alone and it's probably because we have him inside with us so much that he feels lonely and anxious when he's put to bed on his own, i'm not getting into his bed and reading him a story till he's asleep lol . But it's how to fix the problem that has me to be honest????

IMO you've hit the nail on the head here. Whilst I wouldn't rule his diet out (it's clearly not agreeing with him in the longer term: his poops should be consistently dry and hard: sorry if that's TMI!), it sounds to me like you've got separation issues going on here.
It's great when pups have someone with them almost all the time. But, it is also important to teach them to cope with being on their own. The problem tends to be more marked in cases like this where the pup is very used to having company, but when it's gone, the vacuum left is huge.
The anxiety is manifested in him quite literally ****ting himself. He has also probably learned that the closing door is a predictable indicator that he's going to be left alone, and so the closing door itself has essentially become a cue for him to get nervous and for his bowels to loosen.
I think you need to go back to absolute basics here. First, get a DAP Diffuser and plug it into the room where he's sleeping, as close to his bed as possible.
Second, stay in the room with him and let him settle in his bed. Walk towards the door, then turn around and immediately come back in again. Do this lots and lots of times, until you can see that pup is not all that interested in what you're doing any more.
Gradually walk further towards the door. Eventually, go out the door before immediately turning around and coming back in. When he's bored stupid with this, start to stay outside the door just a little bit longer before returning. Gradually build up the length of time you're out.
When he's bored with this, start to close the door bit by bit behind you.
Gradually, build it up so you can close the door and spend increasingly longer outside the door away from pup.
the idea here is that you are conditioning the pup that when you go out, you will be back, each and every time. It also habituates the pup to your coming and going, because you do it so often that the pup gets bored with you coming and going all the time, rather than it being abig, emotional novelty.
Yes, it will take time, and countless repetition, but you can get a lot achieved in short bursts. I do this as standard with foster dogs who, by their veryt circumstances, tend to be very anxious about being left/losing their new "rock", and it works really well, though you do need to give it time.


Some other things to try in conjunction with this: give pup a stuffed Kong Toy with something yummy (you may have to toy around with fillings that won't disagree with his sensitive Boxer tum... Boxers are notorious for digestive problems).
Try putting a baby gate at the doorway instead of using the door itself: some dogs get really upset at the closed door, but are quite happy int he same room as long as they can see out.
Keep a radio playing at a low volume so that the silnece isn't as obvious when you leave.

david75

I was thinking anxiety too, Boxers suffer seperation anxiety in a big way. But if you are leaving him outside at night(at 5 months i really don't understand how you can do this, he's still a baby, but how and ever) is it possible he's eating plant foliage and that's contributing to the diarrhea?

this place http://boxerforums.org/ and boxerworld.com/forums are an excellent resource for boxers and everything health related. on there is a list of different plants/foods etc that boxers are allergic to.

Also, boiled rice and chicken is a great food to get his belly straight.

david75

funnily enough:
http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/dog-training/160062-separation-anxiety-crate-causing-nervous-pooping.html

Honey-ec

DBB wrote: »

Some other things to try in conjunction with this: give pup a stuffed Kong Toy with something yummy (you may have to toy around with fillings that won't disagree with his sensitive Boxer tum... Boxers are notorious for digestive problems).

Cooked pumpkin is excellent for firming up stools and very easy on the tum for Boxers. Just stuff the Kong with it, then bung it in the freezer for a few hours. Of course, it's a crap time of year for sourcing pumpkins, but you can get it tinned in some delis. Just make sure it's actual pumpkin and not pumpkin pie filling.

Cows Go µ

When you find a food that does agree with him, all we do is soak it then freeze it in a kong. That way it takes him a while to get it out and keeps him busy and you know its going to agree with him. Though with the kong, you nearly have to have it instead of a meal as you can fit far more than you'd think in them. We give ours hooves, they are so busy chewing (and making sure no one is going to take theirs) that they don't even know we've gone, even the one who used to have some separation anxiety

baaaa

can't imagine a 5 month old boxer sleeping outside these winter days,their thincoat makes them very succeptible to the cold.
he is probably getting sick with the cold.
you could quadrouple insulate the kennel and it would make no difference as it's open and has no heat source.
guaranteed that he spends the nights shivering and sick, waiting for you to get up for heat,poor thing.

Gold Leaf Tea

Boxers have really thin coats, and really do feel the cold. My lady has a coat/jacket to wear outside during the day this time of year, and sleeps indoors. I don't think it's fair to keep a boxer outside at nighttime, even in summer. With regards to food, mine has had a lot of digestive problems(as is typical of the breed), and I have found that Arden Grange Lamb and Rice has worked best for her, in fact there has been no more issues since she started eating it, and I had pretty much tried her with every premium dry food under the sun previously.

niallam

2 days now since i've started to mix his food half and half, got a food off my mother that she gets in her vet's, Active Veterinary + i think it's called, it looks like nuts mixed with muesli Anyway, stopped all the treats and with swapping to the mix of food has done the trick. I also did as DBB said and when i put him to bed i went back in to check him a few times for the first 20 minutes so he knew i was still around.

The better thing is he actually much prefers the new food too

Thanks for the replys folks, have sorted the problems.

Oh and for the last 2 posters - the vet told us what temperatures are safe for dogs to be outside, think i'll listen to him... I'll listen to him about what temperatures a dog can sustain outside...

niallam

baaaa wrote: »

can't imagine a 5 month old boxer sleeping outside these winter days,their thincoat makes them very succeptible to the cold.
he is probably getting sick with the cold.
you could quadrouple insulate the kennel and it would make no difference as it's open and has no heat source.
guaranteed that he spends the nights shivering and sick, waiting for you to get up for heat,poor thing.

:rolleyes:
please don't call the ispca on me I somehow doubt cold related diarrhea is what a is wrong with him... Start another thread though if you want to talk about that

tk123

You were lucky there - sometimes it can take trial and error to find a food that suits! I'd play it safe for a couple of weeks now and then if you're going to start giving him treats again do it one variety at a time in case there's any problems so you're not trying to figure out what the problem is.
Another thing I just thought of - you could try a snugglesafe pad in the kennel when he's outside if you any way worried about the temp dropping. They're made of hard plastic so really tough and you just microwave them for a few mins - they stay warm for a good 12 hours.

niallam

The kennel is carpeted and everything for him and full of pillows, if it's cold out he's inside, that's how this problem started about 3 weeks ago. The problem turned out to be diet/anxiety related diarrhea not pneumonia from being out in >0c temps.
Looking at the size of that snugglesafe pad he'd need about 4 of them

andreac

niallam wrote: »

The kennel is carpeted and everything for him and full of pillows, if it's cold out he's inside, that's how this problem started about 3 weeks ago. The problem turned out to be diet/anxiety related diarrhea not pneumonia from being out in >0c temps.
Looking at the size of that snugglesafe pad he'd need about 4 of them

To be honest, carpet doesnt keep the cold out unless the kennel is properly insulated. A lot of people are under the impression if a kennel has blankets etc the dog will be warm but thats def not the case. The wooden walls of a kennel dont keep the cold out unless the kennel is fully insulated. Boxers dont have thick coats so dont have a big hairy coat to keep them warm.

niallam

andreac wrote: »

To be honest, carpet doesnt keep the cold out unless the kennel is properly insulated. A lot of people are under the impression if a kennel has blankets etc the dog will be warm but thats def not the case. The wooden walls of a kennel dont keep the cold out unless the kennel is fully insulated. Boxers dont have thick coats so dont have a big hairy coat to keep them warm.

Did you even read any of the posts in this thread???????? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
The kennel has a double layer of insulation in the walls, roof and even under the floor....... We had it built specially for the dog.
It's a long way from central heating that dogs came from...

Anyway enough of going off the original topic please.

david75

so would you spend the night in it?
even fully clothed you'd be warmer than the dog would be.
and you'd still be freezing.

niallam

Roof opens up on it too, just took a pic on the phone there, all walls, the door, under floor and the roof insulated.

Anyone wants one built let me know lol

niallam

david75 wrote: »

so would you spend the night in it?
even fully clothed you'd be warmer than the dog would be.
and you'd still be freezing.

I'm going on the advice of my vet regarding the temperature to leave a dog outside in... Unless your a vet i'll take his word on what to do, but thanks anyway for your overwhelming concern...