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Lesbian parent hopefuls

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    #32
    CdeC
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭CdeC


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Why would they need an extra pair of hands? What about the possible custody complications? As someone with an adopted older brother and as godmother to a beautiful little boy who was born premature when his "natural father" kicked his mother in the stomach I find the implicit message that one needs a connection with their biological father a little insulting.

    My parents did not request the involvement of my brothers birth mother because they needed more "hands on" help.

    My best friend successfully obtained a protection order to ensure that her baby's natural father could not provide "hands on" help.(And we all know what his idea of "hands on" is - hands on her and most likely after a while, on the defenceless child).

    An ejacualtion does not make a father.

    I think you have insulted a lot of people with your post - single mothers, single fathers, straight couples who have adopted, infertile couples who have used assisted reproduction, gay couples planning to adopt or use assisted reproduction... Not to mention all the poor, disadvantaged families who (God love them) only have two parents raising the children, as distinct from those "3 parent families" that you seem to hold in such regard.



    This post is unbelievable. how can you say such things. Common sense indicates that an abusive parent should not be near the child. Why even bring that up.

    One does not NEED a connection with their biologicial father but of course if the option is there then it is a good thing. One does not NEED siblings but they can be a good thing. One does not need friends but they can be a good thing. Do you see what I mean.

    As for hands on help, Every parent finds it stressful. My own Sister has 3 kids under 3 (by accident) and she would like a lot of hands on help and luckily she has a lot of siblings to chip in, take one of the kids out so she can destress and was even more important when she recently fell ill.

    I am very pro non traditional families and your remark of an ejaculation does not make a father, I would love you to give your speech to these guys

    http://www.fathers.ie/


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    #33
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    CdeC wrote: »
    This post is unbelievable. how can you say such things. Common sense indicates that an abusive parent should not be near the child. Why even bring that up.

    One does not NEED a connection with their biologicial father but of course if the option is there then it is a good thing. One does not NEED siblings but they can be a good thing. One does not need friends but they can be a good thing. Do you see what I mean.

    As for hands on help, Every parent finds it stressful. My own Sister has 3 kids under 3 (by accident) and she would like a lot of hands on help and luckily she has a lot of siblings to chip in, take one of the kids out so she can destress and was even more important when she recently fell ill.

    I am very pro non traditional families and your remark of an ejaculation does not make a father, I would love you to give your speech to these guys

    http://www.fathers.ie/[/QUOTE]

    Why bring it up? Because of the assumption that just because a man has impregnated a woman, he will naturally be a "good thing" in a child's life. I thought that was blindingly obvious.

    Dont wave that fathers rights card at me to score points here - I support anyones right to be a parent if they are qualified to do the job (and in actual fact I dont agree with how easily the courts give rights of custody automatically to mothers but are so quick to discount the rights of the father) not to mention my complete lack of time and respect for "feminists". If a man and a woman have a baby together then of course he has the same rights as the mother (or should have) but do not insult my intelligence by comparing him at equitable level to a sperm donor who never set out to be the father of a child that he knows and rears and loves.

    Also, I am sorry that your sister finds it difficult with 3 kids (and she is to be commended for doing the job alone) but I do not see how your sisters desire or need for assistance (and before you jump down my throat, there is nothing wrong with that) can justify you telling potential lesbian parents that they should include the sperm donor in their child's life because they might not have enough hands on deck.It's ludicrous.


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    #34
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    Fathers rights and lone parents are irrelevant to this discussion. Keep it on topic folks, and try to play nice.


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    #35
    CdeC
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭CdeC


    OldNotWIse wrote: »

    Why bring it up? Because of the assumption that just because a man has impregnated a woman, he will naturally be a "good thing" in a child's life. I thought that was blindingly obvious.

    Dont wave that fathers rights card at me to score points here - I support anyones right to be a parent if they are qualified to do the job (and in actual fact I dont agree with how easily the courts give rights of custody automatically to mothers but are so quick to discount the rights of the father) not to mention my complete lack of time and respect for "feminists". If a man and a woman have a baby together then of course he has the same rights as the mother (or should have) but do not insult my intelligence by comparing him at equitable level to a sperm donor who never set out to be the father of a child that he knows and rears and loves.

    Also, I am sorry that your sister finds it difficult with 3 kids (and she is to be commended for doing the job alone) but I do not see how your sisters desire or need for assistance (and before you jump down my throat, there is nothing wrong with that) can justify you telling potential lesbian parents that they should include the sperm donor in their child's life because they might not have enough hands on deck.It's ludicrous.


    Ok again, the should versus the could is the key here Old not wise. If you read through the thread I have no issue with anonymous donors and if people choose to go down that route. The thread started with someone looking for advice and asking about opinions and specifically asked about couples who got a friend to donate versus anonymous donation.

    I am not comparing biological father in a heterosexual relationship to a sperm donor I am comparing anonymous donor Vs Involved donor and the postives and negatives between these two and I was arguing for the latter.

    I never stated that having an extra pair of hands as the one reason to include the biological father in the childs life. I said that this is one of the many benefits of having an extra adult involved in the childs welfare. Another benefit is the child can have a proper connection with both biological parents and of course I expect that the lesbian couple wouldn't pick a sex offender to be the donation for their baby.


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    #36
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    CdeC wrote: »
    Ok again, the should versus the could is the key here Old not wise. If you read through the thread I have no issue with anonymous donors and if people choose to go down that route. The thread started with someone looking for advice and asking about opinions and specifically asked about couples who got a friend to donate versus anonymous donation.

    I am not comparing biological father in a heterosexual relationship to a sperm donor I am comparing anonymous donor Vs Involved donor and the postives and negatives between these two and I was arguing for the latter.

    I never stated that having an extra pair of hands as the one reason to include the biological father in the childs life. I said that this is one of the many benefits of having an extra adult involved in the childs welfare. Another benefit is the child can have a proper connection with both biological parents and of course I expect that the lesbian couple wouldn't pick a sex offender to be the donation for their baby.

    I assume then that you would also be all for an involvement from donors even if a straight couple avail of assissted fertility? Would you also be all for involvement of the birth father if the child has been adopted? If not, why not? (after all your entire argument seems to hinge on the idea that "more hands" is better for the child and surely this is the case whether its a donor or the child is adopted?)


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    #37
    CdeC
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭CdeC


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I assume then that you would also be all for an involvement from donors even if a straight couple avail of assissted fertility? Would you also be all for involvement of the birth father if the child has been adopted? If not, why not? (after all your entire argument seems to hinge on the idea that "more hands" is better for the child and surely this is the case whether its a donor or the child is adopted?)

    If a child is adopted it is usually because the biological parents are not around or unfit to take care of the child. If a child is adopted and the biological father wants to make contact and it is safe then I think the adoptive parents might really consider allowing access to him.

    If a straight couple are looking for donor sperm for whatever reason then they have choices and the same arguement applies for Anonymous donor Vs Involved Donor.


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    #38
    Chick_chick
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Chick_chick


    CdeC wrote: »
    If a straight couple are looking for donor sperm for whatever reason then they have choices and the same arguement applies for Anonymous donor Vs Involved Donor.

    There's more to it than anonymous v involved. There's the reality of the definition of non-anonymous donors that Irish fertility clinics access from Danish sperm banks. Please take this into account. It's a huge reality.


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    #39
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Here's something - perhaps a friend donating sperm might work for some and might not for others.

    I can see lots of potential benefits and lots of potential complications.

    Maybe perhaps each to their own?

    I will say though that if a gay/lesbian couple or actively trying to start a family, they have probably put a ridiculous amount of thought into all the possibilities so I would generally leave them to it unless I could add something significant.

    None of this is a decision that is taken lightly.


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    #40
    Chick_chick
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Chick_chick


    floggg wrote: »

    I will say though that if a gay/lesbian couple or actively trying to start a family, they have probably put a ridiculous amount of thought into all the possibilities so I would generally leave them to it unless I could add something significant.

    None of this is a decision that is taken lightly.

    Chalk it down!! :D

    I'm hanging up my hat on this one.


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    #41
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    I really don't like where this thread has gone. It was not intended for personal comment on the issues of whether the bio fathers rights come into it.

    Please only include personal information and advice on how to go about starting a family, attending a clinic, picking a donor, buying eggs as lesbian and gay couples. The only reason I'll omit straight couples here is because there are clinics in Ireland that will not treat lesbians and the advice being asked through out this thread was 'where do we go?' 'where do we start?'

    Please stop now or (because its my OP :) ) I will kindly ask that it is locked from such off topic rantings.

    Thank you!


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    #42
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Crawlb4uwalk please do not back seat moderate and please don't accuse other posters of ranting. If you have concerns about posts going off topic then please use the report post button and let moderators deal with it. As always and as per the forum charter if you have any comments about moderation send me a pm as they won't be dealt with on thread.

    Everyone else - stay on topic

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #43
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    CdeC wrote: »
    If a child is adopted it is usually because the biological parents are not around or unfit to take care of the child. If a child is adopted and the biological father wants to make contact and it is safe then I think the adoptive parents might really consider allowing access to him.

    If a straight couple are looking for donor sperm for whatever reason then they have choices and the same arguement applies for Anonymous donor Vs Involved Donor.


    But do you think it would be as good a thing for the child if the birth parents were involved as the sperm donor? I'm not asking you about the likelihood of them being involved, I'm asking you if you still think in this instance it is in the child's best interests? You haven't actually answered my question.

    Your point re birth parents is somewhat of a generalisation. People's circumstances change. It is a very selfless and difficult thing to give your baby up for adoption and you cannot know the reasons behind that decision. It may not have anything to do with the mother being "unfit". Plenty of women had their babies taken off them against their will not too long ago in this country.

    Regarding birth parents getting in touch, it is not up to the adoptive parents at all. There are strict laws in this country about getting in contact again. Both parties (adopted person and birth mother) have to consent before details are even given out.

    Also, I dont know if this has crossed your mind but without being crude, have you considered the possibility that a sperm donor might not actually want to be saddled with a child? Imagine some poor guy donates his sperm and then a year later he has two lesbians banging on his door asking for more hands on deck and (possibly) financial assistance? Where do you draw the "assistance" line? What about custody? guardianship?

    If you want a sperm donor who will be a part of the childs life, ask a friend.

    If you are accessing (and paying for) a donor clinic, I dont think its unreasonable to expect anonymity and a child of your own.


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    #44
    CdeC
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭CdeC


    OldNotWIse wrote: »

    If you want a sperm donor who will be a part of the childs life, ask a friend.

    If you are accessing (and paying for) a donor clinic, I dont think its unreasonable to expect anonymity and a child of your own.


    Agreed.


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    #45
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    I have been reading online trying to figure out if I'm up the pole but knowing that I won't know until next week... Man, this two week wait is longer than you think, even if you think you're good at waiting!!
    Anyway... I was reading - and some clinics (they seem to be USA based but not all of them) do two rounds of IUI in one cycle. So they do the IUI and then trigger ovulation and then the next day do another IUI procedure. It doesn't seem to have a higher success rate. But I'd imagine costs double . (although in USA - IUI is covered by health insurance.) so if your clinic suggests two IUI procedures in one cycle maybe ask for a reason because from what I've read it doesn't give a greater chance of success.

    That's my tip of the day. I'm going back to waiting now :)


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    #46
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    crawlb4uwalk wrote: »
    I have been reading online trying to figure out if I'm up the pole but knowing that I won't know until next week... Man, this two week wait is longer than you think, even if you think you're good at waiting!!
    Anyway... I was reading - and some clinics (they seem to be USA based but not all of them) do two rounds of IUI in one cycle. So they do the IUI and then trigger ovulation and then the next day do another IUI procedure. It doesn't seem to have a higher success rate. But I'd imagine costs double . (although in USA - IUI is covered by health insurance.) so if your clinic suggests two IUI procedures in one cycle maybe ask for a reason because from what I've read it doesn't give a greater chance of success.

    That's my tip of the day. I'm going back to waiting now :)

    Good luck!!! I have a few years to wait but so excited for you and hope you get the news you want!!!!!


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    #47
    FairytaleGirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭FairytaleGirl


    crawlb4uwalk are you in babynbump.com? its a brilliant web for tryig to concieve etc and has a gay section -lotssssss of oher mums to be in the 2weekwait!!!


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    #48
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    FairytaleGirl wrote: »
    crawlb4uwalk are you in babynbump.com? its a brilliant web for tryig to concieve etc and has a gay section -lotssssss of oher mums to be in the 2weekwait!!!

    No I'm not but I'll check it out. UPDATE of the day - 2WW is very hard on your relationship. If you are the one getting pregnant you get to (think you) feel all the symptoms but your partner is stressing the hell out! If you find yourself in this situation make sure your partner has loads of things to do for 14 days!!!


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    #49
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    Booo, got BFN over the weekend so waiting on old AF to finish this cycle off :(

    Back to the drawing board... ie - follicular tracking and IUI again in a couple of weeks. I suppose its the same as any couple, you do only get one chance a month. Except we have to pay for the sperm and its not very romantic :)

    Head high. Here we go again :)


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    #50
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    crawlb4uwalk wrote: »
    Booo, got BFN over the weekend so waiting on old AF to finish this cycle off :(

    Back to the drawing board... ie - follicular tracking and IUI again in a couple of weeks. I suppose its the same as any couple, you do only get one chance a month. Except we have to pay for the sperm and its not very romantic :)

    Head high. Here we go again :)

    I don't understand what BFN and AF mean?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #51
    Chick_chick
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Chick_chick


    from what i've gathered from reading fertility stuff online, bfn is big fat negative, af is aunt flo (ew ew!!) and big fat positive is bfp. There's a lingo all of its own!!!


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    #52
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Ah ok; In future could you try and use language that is easy to understand.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #53
    Chick_chick
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Chick_chick


    there's a video game thread i was reading with acronyms i'm not familiar with; all areas have those. the fun is finding out :)


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    #54
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Chick_chick wrote: »
    there's a video game thread i was reading with acronyms i'm not familiar with; all areas have those. the fun is finding out :)

    There's a general etiquette on this site that doesn't all txt spk. In this thread I am asking people not to overuse abbreviations. I'm not discussing this on thread anymore but if you have any problems pm me

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #55
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    So sorry if people couldn't understand me - I had a "negative pregnancy test" over the weekend so I am now waiting on my "period" to start the next cycle. Back to the drawing board ie, tracking follicles (sacs in your ovaries that mature the egg before its released at ovulation) and "Intrauterine Insemination" (a procedure often referred to as Artificial Insemination but IUI is the specific name for this procedure) in a couple of weeks.

    I suppose its the same as any couple - straight or gay, you do only get one chance a month. Except we (us lesbians) have to pay (or maybe some people get it free from a friend) for the sperm and its not very romantic... Because its a medical procedure.

    Holding my head high for this next "menstrual cycle" and I'm ready to start all over again :)

    (honestly, I think my earlier post was nicely vague... )


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    #56
    Moon Indigo
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Moon Indigo


    I know I am probably blind but.... I am just wondering were is the best place to seek sperm so to speak? Is there clinics or elsewhere we could look? Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you :)


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    #57
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    http://dk.cryosinternational.com/home.aspx is easy to search through. You need to buy it through a clinic (I think) so if you are thinking of getting it delivered for DIY check that out first :)


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    #58
    Moon Indigo
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Moon Indigo


    Thank you for that link :D Seems too good to be true so I will have to search further so see what the catch is... looking at all of the profiles feels a bit like building terminator or something. Thanks again!


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    #59
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    Its actually a very odd thing to do... shopping for sperm. We sat all summer going through the profiles. We picked one and then only in the passed week or so looked back through our shortlist. Soooo glad we took another look at some of them... What were we thinking!! :) Ah but to be fair you can't go that wrong... A baby's a baby and it'll be half of you/your partner :)


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    #60
    Moon Indigo
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Moon Indigo


    Very true I had to keep telling her 'it will actually have some of your DNA you know' :p! It's an odd experience and if we can do it DIY style all the better but either way it's a wonderful starting block. Just knowing something like that is out there is beyond words. Makes the top of the mountain seem not so far away after all. :)


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    #61
    crawlb4uwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭crawlb4uwalk


    Just so you know sperm can be expensive so DIY could get costly. In my opinion, though its very far away from the most romantic thing I've ever done, I'd suggest a clinic and IUI. All your questions and worries will be answered by professionals, they will test to make sure you are in working order ;) and time the whole thing so that you have the best chances of getting your eggo preggo.


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