Why doesn't someone tell the GP's?

Sky King

the doctors should prescribe placebos for those they think don't need anti-biotics

I've often wondered if they do.

I have heard so many people going to doctors and demanding antibiotics. My GF said when they were kids their doc used to prescribe augmentin for a sore throat without even looking into their mouths!

I mean ffs I am not remotely medically qualified but I know that's seriously wrong - many sore throats are viral innit!

Doc Ruby

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's probably to stop people asking their GP for antibiotics, so that the GP doesn't have to tell them to fuck off if they do.

Thats the one. Me ould aunty was raging the last day because the doctor wouldn't give her tablets for the flu, explaining it wouldn't have helped was to no avail.

I tried an unusual prescription for my own flu over the winter, as sworn to by a couple of Polish women, you crush a half bulb or more of garlic with a pestle and mortar into milk, heat the concoction and slurp it back fast as you can.

Didn't fix the flu but nobody else got it as they wouldn't come within twenty feet of me, so I suppose it was good in that regard.

Pherekydes

Wertz wrote: »

Your first paragraph is one of the main reasons for the huge drop in efficacy of antibiotic meds... the bacteria that survive the early onslaught of the meds are the strongest and by process of genetics then go on to breed a more tolerant generation of themselves. Next time around it takes a longer course to wipe them all out and at some point they will be resistant.

Right. MRSA and VRE have arisen because of this general idiocy.

Doctors need to be tougher; patients need to educate themselves better.

El Weirdo

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I tried an unusual prescription for my own flu over the winter, as sworn to by a couple of Polish women, you crush a half bulb or more of garlic with a pestle and mortar into milk, heat the concoction and slurp it back fast as you can.

The bolded part of the instructions is superfluous.

happyfish

robinph wrote: »

Never have to queue behind hypochondriacs to see my current GP who I don't have to pay any cash to. Can get an appointment for the same day if needed, something less urgent like general checkups, just make an appointment for a week or so later. Walk into the surgery, check in on their computer, about 5-10 minutes later get called in and seen.

No money changes hands.

Oh my god I work in a doctors with a large proportion of medical card patients and it really, really does happen.
He has patients that see the doctor twice weekly.Young healthy people. Because it's free. You mightn't notice them if you're just visiting but it's everywhere and it's very hard to do anything about it because the doctor can't take the risk that this one time that they ignore it could be the one time that there's genuinely something wrong. And people regularly ask me if they can get a prescription for the flu. " The doctor said he couldn't give me anything, but can you just run me up a quick script on the computer?". " Ah sorry I'm not a doctor, I can't do that" " I took some lemsip and I still have a sore throat , I think I might go to the hospital...." :mad::mad::mad:

sebastianlieken

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Becasue alot of doctors are self-Important retards who only come accross as being intelligent because of their well indulged God-complexes. doctors are as human as everyone else; they can be crooked, stupid, negligent, etc.

My diagnosis:

A serious case of chipontheshoulderosis.

prettygurrly

happyfish wrote: »

Oh my god I work in a doctors with a large proportion of medical card patients and it really, really does happen.
He has patients that see the doctor twice weekly.Young healthy people. Because it's free.

That's more to do with our two tier system than because it's free. Up the north (and this is out of the mouth of a man who wanted to open doctors surgeries up there and has researched it) there is not much of an uptake for the free doctors because it is free. paradoxically, there is some sort of block on people when they are sick that because it's free they'll go "next week". They end up not going cos they get better.

I agree that people on med cards go to the doctor more often down south when not needed but this is because they feel like they are getting something over us lot who don't have a med card. i know it's bizarre! i found it hard to believe when he first said it but that is the case. If you want people to stop going to the doctor when they dont need to you should make it free for everyone....

I went to the doctors last year just before christmas because i had that strange debilitating flu going round and wanted a supply of antibiotics in case it turned into infection. I was sure that I would feel better soon but just in case. I did get a script but I never used it in the end because i felt better a few days later. my worst nightmare was being stuck over the holidays having to pay twice the price for a call out cos no surgeries were open...

Sky King

prettygurrly wrote: »

I went to the doctors last year just before christmas because i had that strange debilitating flu going round and wanted a supply of antibiotics in case it turned into infection..

What? How does that work? Influenza is a virus. Antibiotics don't work on viruses.

Repeat:
ANTIBIOTICS DON'T WORK ON VIRUSES!

You might as well be snorting lines of lemsip powder. At least then you might feel better

First Aid Ireland

Most GPs will tell you the same thing. The pressure they come under to prescribe an antibiotic is huge. People have paid for a consultation and in many cases they want something that will fix them. Of course, in most cases the reality is that nature will just take it's course.

I've had people walk out of an emergency department screaming at me because I wouldn't give them an antibiotic. 99% of GPs would love to not prescribe antibiotics but they're up against it.

It needs to be a two way thing. GPs need to tell their patients what they don't want to hear sometimes. But patients also need to appreciate that these antibiotics are very often useless.

swingking

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Becasue alot of doctors are self-Important retards who only come accross as being intelligent because of their well indulged God-complexes. doctors are as human as everyone else; they can be crooked, stupid, negligent, etc.

They're also the people who save your life so STFU

Sarky

prettygurrly wrote: »

I went to the doctors last year just before christmas because i had that strange debilitating flu going round and wanted a supply of antibiotics in case it turned into infection. I was sure that I would feel better soon but just in case. I did get a script but I never used it in the end because i felt better a few days later. my worst nightmare was being stuck over the holidays having to pay twice the price for a call out cos no surgeries were open...

Noes!

Flu is an infection. A viral infection. Antibiotics are for bacterial infections. Antibiotics will do nothing to a virus. Absolutely nothing. There is, in fact, very little in the way of antiviral medication. And you certainly don't need it to get through the flu. Flu is something you wait out. Some lemsip or other over-the-counter fever control will make you feel a bit better, but still won't combat the infection. That's your body's job.

What you did was waste your and your doctor's time and you risked spreading your flu to everyone in the waiting room. Here's hoping any old folks you were sitting next to had gotten their flu vaccination this year.

prettygurrly

@Sky King: jesus i know they dont work on viruses but if you're run down and not feeling well you're more susceptible to DEVELOPING a (bacterial) infection later on and as I said, it was just before Christmas so there would be no surgeries open. did you even read my post? I said that i didn't use the script because in the end i didn't need it.

First Aid Ireland

robinph wrote: »

Which is a good reason for making GP visits free.

If it no longer feels like you are buying a service from them then people will be less likely to feel as if they have been scammed after handing over their fifty notes and getting nothing in return. Healthcare should be free at the point of provision, money should never directly be changing hands.

I completely agree with this, insofar as money should never have to change hands for healthcare. But I've worked in countries where the whole lot is more or less free, and the GPs are still under huge pressure to prescribe.

It's to do with both money AND perceived need.

I disagree with the person above who said people are stupid. They're not. Most people are good and most are sensible. But they need to be back on their feet to look after their kids and to work and we haven't educated the public enough about antibiotics. Hopefully this new campaign will be a step in the right direction.

Chuck Stone

I go to my GP as a consumer.

CricketDude

In most states ive been to in the US you buy antibiotics without a prescription, over the counter.
I sneezed one day (just a single sneeze) staying with a relative and she pulls out antibiotics and says take one of these for that.
They are the people who need education.

Robdude

uberwolf wrote: »

Most patients perceive that they need antibiotics. The doctor is wrong or negligent if they don't prescribe. They will change doctors to one more likely to give them what they think they need

Thus defeating the entire purpose of requiring doctors be trained and educated. You might as well just make all drugs available over the counter if this is what is happening.

If doctors are willing to perscribe drugs to people who don't need them simply to keep their business - they aren't doctors; they are drug dealers.

Robdude

CricketDude wrote: »

In most states ive been to in the US you buy antibiotics without a prescription, over the counter.
I sneezed one day (just a single sneeze) staying with a relative and she pulls out antibiotics and says take one of these for that.
They are the people who need education.

What states are these? I thought all antibiotics required a perscription?

Admittedly, doctors will hand them out like candy, but I thought you still need one.

prettygurrly

Sarky wrote: »

What you did was waste your and your doctor's time and you risked spreading your flu to everyone in the waiting room. Here's hoping any old folks you were sitting next to had gotten their flu vaccination this year.

*sigh* you know when you're at death's door like i was, hallucinating with the pain, unable to feel your actual temperature and have only been getting worse over 3 days, it can be quite frightening. i was in very bad shape, i knew i had flu but i was afraid that eventually would get a bacterial infection. i'm susceptible to tonisillitis and pharyngitis. in fact my tonisillitis presents itself as a rash which previously made me think i had meningitis. i'm not an idiot, i never considered taking antibiotics for flu and i said that in my post.

also as the elderly get their flu vaccine for free, if one of them chose not to have it and then sat in a doctors waiting room then it's only their own fault if they catch flu afterwards.
(obviously if an old person is allergic to eggs and cant have a flu vaccine then they should take precautions sitting in a docs waiting room).

really not liking the people on boards today, the number of unfounded personal attacks.

i'm off.

Dublin_Gunner

Why would a doctor prescribe antibiotics for a cold or flu?? Antibiotics will have 0 effect. Colds / Flu = Virus.

Yahew

prettygurrly wrote: »

That's more to do with our two tier system than because it's free. Up the north (and this is out of the mouth of a man who wanted to open doctors surgeries up there and has researched it) there is not much of an uptake for the free doctors because it is free. paradoxically, there is some sort of block on people when they are sick that because it's free they'll go "next week". They end up not going cos they get better..

i doubt the logic of this. Free services will see people use it more, regardless of whether it is available for free universally.

Robdude wrote: »

Thus defeating the entire purpose of requiring doctors be trained and educated. You might as well just make all drugs available over the counter if this is what is happening.

If doctors are willing to perscribe drugs to people who don't need them simply to keep their business - they aren't doctors; they are drug dealers.

I agree with this - here's a simple fix. Send inspectors around as pretend patients, and fine or ban doctors with too easy a pen.

tayto lover

Doctors will charge 50e whether they prescribe medication or not BUT if they can send you their friend up the line for further exploitation they will not hesitate to do so.

ceegee

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Why would a doctor prescribe antibiotics for a cold or flu?? Antibiotics will have 0 effect. Colds / Flu = Virus.

Someone with a cold/flu may also quite likely have a secondary infection (eg strep throat) which is bacterial. Will also probably help with cold/flu symptoms due to placebo effect.

Sarky

tayto lover wrote: »

Doctors will charge 50e whether they prescribe medication or not BUT if they can send you their friend up the line for further exploitation they will not hesitate to do so.

Do you have anything to back this up? Not that I'm doubting the word of your friend's cousin's bastard child's mother's cleaning lady, but, y'know...

mathepac

ceegee wrote: »

Someone with a cold/flu may also quite likely have a secondary infection (eg strep throat) which is bacterial. ...

Hopefully the medic will actually go to the trouble of establishing this first rather than prescribing the mythical prophylactic antibiotic.

ceegee wrote: »

... Will also probably help with cold/flu symptoms due to placebo effect.

And will also help to unnecessarily build up client's resistance to the antibiotic and depress their natural defence systems.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff_placebo_effect?currentPage=all

The failure rate in more extensive Phase III trials increased by 11 percent, mainly due to surprisingly poor showings against placebo. Despite historic levels of industry investment in R&D, the US Food and Drug Administration approved only 19 first-of-their-kind remedies in 2007—the fewest since 1983—and just 24 in 2008. Half of all drugs that fail in late-stage trials drop out of the pipeline due to their inability to beat sugar pills.

and besides new drugs shouldn't just beat placebos they should be better than cheaper generics too

tayto lover

Sarky wrote: »

Do you have anything to back this up? Not that I'm doubting the word of your friend's cousin's bastard child's mother's cleaning lady, but, y'know...

I'll send you on my bills.

Sarky

That's not terribly convincing. Are you sure you didn't just have some problem that took a while to pin down?

Calibos

A compounding problem is that Doctors are not allowed prescribe placebo's anymore afaik. Which is one reason that I don't imediately call for the withdrawl of the medical licence of Doctors who refer patients to the looper altmed crowd. Its not that I think they have forgotten everything they ever read in their science textbooks, its that unfortunately this is the only legal means of them 'prescribing' a placebo now. Unfortunately while in the old days the doctor could prescribe you a sugarpill placebo directly which cost 5 pound and it only cost that because of the psychology of people that a medicine thats too cheap can't be any good :rolleyes: Now you have to pay the Homeopath 30 euro for the same sugarpill placebo.

tayto lover

Sarky wrote: »

That's not terribly convincing. Are you sure you didn't just have some problem that took a while to pin down?

Maybe its me and my suspicious mind but it has happened to three members of my family recently where we have been sent for further attention for what seemed like minor knock(my own being a bang on the shoulder from a fall on a wet floor) . Maybe its just coincidence.

ceegee

mathepac wrote: »

ceegee wrote: »

Someone with a cold/flu may also quite likely have a secondary infection (eg strep throat) which is bacterial. ...

Hopefully the medic will actually go to the trouble of establishing this first rather than prescribing the mythical prophylactic antibiotic.

ceegee wrote: »

... Will also probably help with cold/flu symptoms due to placebo effect.

And will also help to unnecessarily build up client's resistance to the antibiotic and depress their natural defence systems.

Yeah I was going on the assumption that the secondary bacterial infection was present as a reason for giving someone with a cold antibiotics.

I agree that antibiotics are overprescribed but in SOME circumstances should be given to people who also has a cold/flu