Why doesn't someone tell the GP's?

Andrea B.

A rant. Maybe I am missing the obvious?

You need a perscription for antibiotics.
Doctors prescribe them based on their educated judgement and symptoms displayed.

Then why is the HSE driving an ad campaing to tell the rest of us not to take antibiotics for cold and flu?

See link.

Could they not, ..............perhaps, just tell the doctors?

spurious

Doctors know everything, they got 600 points in their Leaving and became doctors to help people.
No way would any of them be writing prescriptions for unnecessary antibiotics just to screw 50 quid out of a punter.

stupidusername

I actually wondered the same thing myself the other day, when I saw a poster up in the doctors waiting room. I'm stumped.

biko

I wonder will someone in this thread tell the doctors?

partyatmygaff

spurious wrote: »

Doctors know everything, they got 600 points in their Leaving and became doctors to help people.
No way would any of them be writing prescriptions for unnecessary antibiotics just to screw 50 quid out of a punter.

Don't they still get paid regardless of whether or not they prescribe anything?

mardybumbum

spurious wrote: »

Doctors know everything, they got 600 points in their Leaving and became doctors to help people.
No way would any of them be writing prescriptions for unnecessary antibiotics just to screw 50 quid out of a punter.

Do GP's make more money if they prescribe a medication?

Cicero

Is there a doctor in the house?

Andrea B.

I wonder will someone in this thread tell the doctors?

They cringe enough when I go in with a diagnosis-by-Google. Heaven forbid if I question theur choice of medicine!

WindSock

People feel screwed when they walk away from the docs with no prescription. It's probably for placebos or something.

uberwolf

Most patients perceive that they need antibiotics. The doctor is wrong or negligent if they don't prescribe. They will change doctors to one more likely to give them what they think they need

number10a

mardybumbum wrote: »

Do GP's make more money if they prescribe a medication?

No. But people would no doubt feel hard done by if they handed over fifty quid only to be told rest, drink tea, keep warm and drink loads of orange juice or something similar. Doctor hands over prescription to ensure that the patient feels like they're getting value for money so that they will be back again next year.

Logical Fallacy

OP, a lot of people don't finish out their courses of anti-biotics. They take them until they start to feel better and then stop, thinking they are on the mend.

Then when another ailment pops up they think "ah sure, i'll take some of those tablets i have lying about the place".

Mainly because people are stupid.

robinph

number10a wrote: »

No. But people would no doubt feel hard done by if they handed over fifty quid only to be told rest, drink tea, keep warm and drink loads of orange juice or something similar. Doctor hands over prescription to ensure that the patient feels like they're getting value for money so that they will be back again next year.

Which is a good reason for making GP visits free.

If it no longer feels like you are buying a service from them then people will be less likely to feel as if they have been scammed after handing over their fifty notes and getting nothing in return. Healthcare should be free at the point of provision, money should never directly be changing hands.

ejmaztec

It's probably to stop people asking their GP for antibiotics, so that the GP doesn't have to tell them to fuck off if they do. Some GPs give in to these requests because some of the patients won't take no for an answer.

From my professional medical knowledge, picked up from old wives and people in pubs, people are getting too many antibiotics and these are becoming less and less effective in curing people, because the bugs are becoming immune to them. They also cost the HSE a lot of money.

mardybumbum

number10a wrote: »

No. But people would no doubt feel hard done by if they handed over fifty quid only to be told rest, drink tea, keep warm and drink loads of orange juice or something similar. Doctor hands over prescription to ensure that the patient feels like they're getting value for money so that they will be back again next year.

That may have been what Spurious was getting at then.

I heard the advert myself on the way back from Belfast last week and found it very strange. I guess it's an attempt to let people know the reasons why their GP might not prescribe them an antibiotic when they are feeling ill.
I think it would be far more effective if the GP's themselves took the time to explain to each patient individually why an antibiotic is not indicated.
I'm not saying that all GP's hand out antibiotics like smarties but clearly a lot do.

WoollyRedHat

spurious wrote: »

Doctors know everything, they got 600 points in their Leaving and became doctors to help people.
No way would any of them be writing prescriptions for unnecessary antibiotics just to screw 50 quid out of a punter.

lol good one

kelle

Andrea B. wrote: »

A rant. Maybe I am missing the obvious?

You need a perscription for antibiotics.
Doctors prescribe them based on their educated judgement and symptoms displayed.

Then why is the HSE driving an ad campaing to tell the rest of us not to take antibiotics for cold and flu?

See link.

Could they not, ..............perhaps, just tell the doctors?

Excellent OP, in the same way I get irritated by reports on food products in magazines telling us why children shouldn't eat them - I shake my head and wonder why they can't say it to the bloody manufacturers, after all we don't make the stuff!

When my children are sick, I don't bring them to the doctor solely with the intention of getting antibiotics - when suggested I ask if there's an alternative and if not I trust the doctor's judgement.

Such a campaign makes doctors seem incompetent!

WoollyRedHat

kelle wrote: »

Excellent OP, in the same way I get irritated by reports on food products in magazines telling us why children shouldn't eat them - I shake my head and wonder why they can't say it to the bloody manufacturers, after all we don't make the stuff!

When my children are sick, I don't bring them to the doctor solely with the intention of getting antibiotics - when suggested I ask if there's an alternative and if not I trust the doctor's judgement.

Such a campaign makes doctors seem incompetent!

In fairness, not all doctors are infallible... that's why people get second opinions and all

Sarky

robinph wrote: »

Which is a good reason for making GP visits free.

Surely it's an argument for patients actually having a bit of cop on and not going to see a doctor demanding some magical cure for their sniffles?

My name is URL

I was under the impression that the ad campaign was designed to reduce the numbers of people presenting with cold/flu symptoms. If somebody visits a doctor with a chesty cough it's difficult for the doctor to rule out the possibility of it being an actual bacterial infection as opposed to just a symptom of flu.

InkSlinger67

I learned at an early age not to go to the doctor with bad colds and flu. Regardless of the symptoms he would prescribe the same anti-biotic each time. That was about 13 years ago - haven't gone since, I get a bad cold/flu once a year and get over it fairly quick in comparison as far as I remember it.

Maybe back then I loved popping pills and milking it.

Kevin Duffy

robinph wrote: »

Which is a good reason for making GP visits free.

If it no longer feels like you are buying a service from them then people will be less likely to feel as if they have been scammed after handing over their fifty notes and getting nothing in return. Healthcare should be free at the point of provision, money should never directly be changing hands.

And have the people who actually need to see a doctor stuck behind a queue of hypocondriacs on their twice-daily attention-seeking visits?

sebastianlieken

Becasue alot of doctors are self-Important retards who only come accross as being intelligent because of their well indulged God-complexes. doctors are as human as everyone else; they can be crooked, stupid, negligent, etc.

robinph

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

And have the people who actually need to see a doctor stuck behind a queue of hypocondriacs on their twice-daily attention-seeking visits?

That doesn't actually happen.

Sarky

I'm afraid it does.

Einhard

I imagine they're taking a two pronged approach because a lot of peope find it hard to accept it when, as they are dying from some viral infection, their doctor prescribes them hot water and honey, with plenty of rest. They feel their symptoms "deserve" anti-biotics, and tend to demand them at times. It's as the doctor is denigrating their illness by not prescribing anti-biotics. So the idea (I assume) is to make the public more aware of the liitations of the medication so they won't be so determined to demand them from their GP.

Wertz

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

OP, a lot of people don't finish out their courses of anti-biotics. They take them until they start to feel better and then stop, thinking they are on the mend.

Then when another ailment pops up they think "ah sure, i'll take some of those tablets i have lying about the place".

Mainly because people are stupid.

Your first paragraph is one of the main reasons for the huge drop in efficacy of antibiotic meds... the bacteria that survive the early onslaught of the meds are the strongest and by process of genetics then go on to breed a more tolerant generation of themselves. Next time around it takes a longer course to wipe them all out and at some point they will be resistant.

That process alongside the liberal use of antib's in animal farming and an over reliance on them in a hospital setting means that most of our current generation of antib meds will be next to useless in the coming decades...and due to the huge development and production prices V sales returns for the pharma industry, there aren't many new ones coming on the market.

Aiming these ads at the general public is necessary to increase awareness of the problem...doctors are aware of it already and all but the most unscrupulous would be heeding guidelines on their prescribing habits.... doesn't stop the less well informed expecting a card of augmentin everytime they show up with a headcold.

robinph

Sarky wrote: »

I'm afraid it does.

Never have to queue behind hypochondriacs to see my current GP who I don't have to pay any cash to. Can get an appointment for the same day if needed, something less urgent like general checkups, just make an appointment for a week or so later. Walk into the surgery, check in on their computer, about 5-10 minutes later get called in and seen.

No money changes hands.

Kevin Duffy

robinph wrote: »

That doesn't actually happen.

What? Hypocondriacs with medical cards don't see the doctor just for attention? Eh, maybe in your world. When you arrive on Earth I'll introduce you to several I know. The one with full-blown Munchausen's is quite fun, but not in the good way.

Sarky

robinph wrote: »

Never have to queue behind hypochondriacs to see my current GP who I don't have to pay any cash to. Can get an appointment for the same day if needed, something less urgent like general checkups, just make an appointment for a week or so later. Walk into the surgery, check in on their computer, about 5-10 minutes later get called in and seen.

No money changes hands.

You probably have a GP that tells hypochondriacs to GTFO then.

CreepingDeath

Easy solution to this... the doctors should prescribe placebos for those they think don't need anti-biotics.

Sky King

the doctors should prescribe placebos for those they think don't need anti-biotics

I've often wondered if they do.

I have heard so many people going to doctors and demanding antibiotics. My GF said when they were kids their doc used to prescribe augmentin for a sore throat without even looking into their mouths!

I mean ffs I am not remotely medically qualified but I know that's seriously wrong - many sore throats are viral innit!

Doc Ruby

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's probably to stop people asking their GP for antibiotics, so that the GP doesn't have to tell them to fuck off if they do.

Thats the one. Me ould aunty was raging the last day because the doctor wouldn't give her tablets for the flu, explaining it wouldn't have helped was to no avail.

I tried an unusual prescription for my own flu over the winter, as sworn to by a couple of Polish women, you crush a half bulb or more of garlic with a pestle and mortar into milk, heat the concoction and slurp it back fast as you can.

Didn't fix the flu but nobody else got it as they wouldn't come within twenty feet of me, so I suppose it was good in that regard.

Pherekydes

Wertz wrote: »

Your first paragraph is one of the main reasons for the huge drop in efficacy of antibiotic meds... the bacteria that survive the early onslaught of the meds are the strongest and by process of genetics then go on to breed a more tolerant generation of themselves. Next time around it takes a longer course to wipe them all out and at some point they will be resistant.

Right. MRSA and VRE have arisen because of this general idiocy.

Doctors need to be tougher; patients need to educate themselves better.

El Weirdo

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I tried an unusual prescription for my own flu over the winter, as sworn to by a couple of Polish women, you crush a half bulb or more of garlic with a pestle and mortar into milk, heat the concoction and slurp it back fast as you can.

The bolded part of the instructions is superfluous.

happyfish

robinph wrote: »

Never have to queue behind hypochondriacs to see my current GP who I don't have to pay any cash to. Can get an appointment for the same day if needed, something less urgent like general checkups, just make an appointment for a week or so later. Walk into the surgery, check in on their computer, about 5-10 minutes later get called in and seen.

No money changes hands.

Oh my god I work in a doctors with a large proportion of medical card patients and it really, really does happen.
He has patients that see the doctor twice weekly.Young healthy people. Because it's free. You mightn't notice them if you're just visiting but it's everywhere and it's very hard to do anything about it because the doctor can't take the risk that this one time that they ignore it could be the one time that there's genuinely something wrong. And people regularly ask me if they can get a prescription for the flu. " The doctor said he couldn't give me anything, but can you just run me up a quick script on the computer?". " Ah sorry I'm not a doctor, I can't do that" " I took some lemsip and I still have a sore throat , I think I might go to the hospital...." :mad::mad::mad:

sebastianlieken

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Becasue alot of doctors are self-Important retards who only come accross as being intelligent because of their well indulged God-complexes. doctors are as human as everyone else; they can be crooked, stupid, negligent, etc.

My diagnosis:

A serious case of chipontheshoulderosis.

prettygurrly

happyfish wrote: »

Oh my god I work in a doctors with a large proportion of medical card patients and it really, really does happen.
He has patients that see the doctor twice weekly.Young healthy people. Because it's free.

That's more to do with our two tier system than because it's free. Up the north (and this is out of the mouth of a man who wanted to open doctors surgeries up there and has researched it) there is not much of an uptake for the free doctors because it is free. paradoxically, there is some sort of block on people when they are sick that because it's free they'll go "next week". They end up not going cos they get better.

I agree that people on med cards go to the doctor more often down south when not needed but this is because they feel like they are getting something over us lot who don't have a med card. i know it's bizarre! i found it hard to believe when he first said it but that is the case. If you want people to stop going to the doctor when they dont need to you should make it free for everyone....

I went to the doctors last year just before christmas because i had that strange debilitating flu going round and wanted a supply of antibiotics in case it turned into infection. I was sure that I would feel better soon but just in case. I did get a script but I never used it in the end because i felt better a few days later. my worst nightmare was being stuck over the holidays having to pay twice the price for a call out cos no surgeries were open...

Sky King

prettygurrly wrote: »

I went to the doctors last year just before christmas because i had that strange debilitating flu going round and wanted a supply of antibiotics in case it turned into infection..

What? How does that work? Influenza is a virus. Antibiotics don't work on viruses.

Repeat:
ANTIBIOTICS DON'T WORK ON VIRUSES!

You might as well be snorting lines of lemsip powder. At least then you might feel better

First Aid Ireland

Most GPs will tell you the same thing. The pressure they come under to prescribe an antibiotic is huge. People have paid for a consultation and in many cases they want something that will fix them. Of course, in most cases the reality is that nature will just take it's course.

I've had people walk out of an emergency department screaming at me because I wouldn't give them an antibiotic. 99% of GPs would love to not prescribe antibiotics but they're up against it.

It needs to be a two way thing. GPs need to tell their patients what they don't want to hear sometimes. But patients also need to appreciate that these antibiotics are very often useless.

swingking

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Becasue alot of doctors are self-Important retards who only come accross as being intelligent because of their well indulged God-complexes. doctors are as human as everyone else; they can be crooked, stupid, negligent, etc.

They're also the people who save your life so STFU

Sarky

prettygurrly wrote: »

I went to the doctors last year just before christmas because i had that strange debilitating flu going round and wanted a supply of antibiotics in case it turned into infection. I was sure that I would feel better soon but just in case. I did get a script but I never used it in the end because i felt better a few days later. my worst nightmare was being stuck over the holidays having to pay twice the price for a call out cos no surgeries were open...

Noes!

Flu is an infection. A viral infection. Antibiotics are for bacterial infections. Antibiotics will do nothing to a virus. Absolutely nothing. There is, in fact, very little in the way of antiviral medication. And you certainly don't need it to get through the flu. Flu is something you wait out. Some lemsip or other over-the-counter fever control will make you feel a bit better, but still won't combat the infection. That's your body's job.

What you did was waste your and your doctor's time and you risked spreading your flu to everyone in the waiting room. Here's hoping any old folks you were sitting next to had gotten their flu vaccination this year.

prettygurrly

@Sky King: jesus i know they dont work on viruses but if you're run down and not feeling well you're more susceptible to DEVELOPING a (bacterial) infection later on and as I said, it was just before Christmas so there would be no surgeries open. did you even read my post? I said that i didn't use the script because in the end i didn't need it.

First Aid Ireland

robinph wrote: »

Which is a good reason for making GP visits free.

If it no longer feels like you are buying a service from them then people will be less likely to feel as if they have been scammed after handing over their fifty notes and getting nothing in return. Healthcare should be free at the point of provision, money should never directly be changing hands.

I completely agree with this, insofar as money should never have to change hands for healthcare. But I've worked in countries where the whole lot is more or less free, and the GPs are still under huge pressure to prescribe.

It's to do with both money AND perceived need.

I disagree with the person above who said people are stupid. They're not. Most people are good and most are sensible. But they need to be back on their feet to look after their kids and to work and we haven't educated the public enough about antibiotics. Hopefully this new campaign will be a step in the right direction.

Chuck Stone

I go to my GP as a consumer.

CricketDude

In most states ive been to in the US you buy antibiotics without a prescription, over the counter.
I sneezed one day (just a single sneeze) staying with a relative and she pulls out antibiotics and says take one of these for that.
They are the people who need education.

Robdude

uberwolf wrote: »

Most patients perceive that they need antibiotics. The doctor is wrong or negligent if they don't prescribe. They will change doctors to one more likely to give them what they think they need

Thus defeating the entire purpose of requiring doctors be trained and educated. You might as well just make all drugs available over the counter if this is what is happening.

If doctors are willing to perscribe drugs to people who don't need them simply to keep their business - they aren't doctors; they are drug dealers.

Robdude

CricketDude wrote: »

In most states ive been to in the US you buy antibiotics without a prescription, over the counter.
I sneezed one day (just a single sneeze) staying with a relative and she pulls out antibiotics and says take one of these for that.
They are the people who need education.

What states are these? I thought all antibiotics required a perscription?

Admittedly, doctors will hand them out like candy, but I thought you still need one.

prettygurrly

Sarky wrote: »

What you did was waste your and your doctor's time and you risked spreading your flu to everyone in the waiting room. Here's hoping any old folks you were sitting next to had gotten their flu vaccination this year.

*sigh* you know when you're at death's door like i was, hallucinating with the pain, unable to feel your actual temperature and have only been getting worse over 3 days, it can be quite frightening. i was in very bad shape, i knew i had flu but i was afraid that eventually would get a bacterial infection. i'm susceptible to tonisillitis and pharyngitis. in fact my tonisillitis presents itself as a rash which previously made me think i had meningitis. i'm not an idiot, i never considered taking antibiotics for flu and i said that in my post.

also as the elderly get their flu vaccine for free, if one of them chose not to have it and then sat in a doctors waiting room then it's only their own fault if they catch flu afterwards.
(obviously if an old person is allergic to eggs and cant have a flu vaccine then they should take precautions sitting in a docs waiting room).

really not liking the people on boards today, the number of unfounded personal attacks.

i'm off.

Dublin_Gunner

Why would a doctor prescribe antibiotics for a cold or flu?? Antibiotics will have 0 effect. Colds / Flu = Virus.

Yahew

prettygurrly wrote: »

That's more to do with our two tier system than because it's free. Up the north (and this is out of the mouth of a man who wanted to open doctors surgeries up there and has researched it) there is not much of an uptake for the free doctors because it is free. paradoxically, there is some sort of block on people when they are sick that because it's free they'll go "next week". They end up not going cos they get better..

i doubt the logic of this. Free services will see people use it more, regardless of whether it is available for free universally.

Robdude wrote: »

Thus defeating the entire purpose of requiring doctors be trained and educated. You might as well just make all drugs available over the counter if this is what is happening.

If doctors are willing to perscribe drugs to people who don't need them simply to keep their business - they aren't doctors; they are drug dealers.

I agree with this - here's a simple fix. Send inspectors around as pretend patients, and fine or ban doctors with too easy a pen.