Broadcasting 2012

Elmo

So 2011 came to a disappointing end: -

1. No major company provided an Expression of Interest to the Department for new Commerical National Public Service Channels on the Saorview Muxes, while few Expressions of Interest where made.
2. Progress on the "new" PSB channels (Oireachtas TV and IFB Channel) was muted, with the IFB waiting on a grant from the Dept!!!
3. A new campaign for DSO was launched, with a massive budget that could have been granted to new PSB channels.
4. No sight of commercial radio Broadcasters on Saorview.
5. RTÉ News Now, RTÉ One +1 and RTÉjr launched with Saorview.

So will 2012 begin as 2011 ended?

Predictions: -

1. The BAI will launch another attempt to provide commercial Muxes to consumers in Spring 2012, they will take 6 months to review, with perhaps public presentations given in Dec and a decision made in Spring 2013. (Lets not rush it).
2. The Minister will Switch off Analogue, in October but may change his mind for Southern and Western Areas. Which will be extended until 31/12/2012.
3. New TV or Radio stations will be unlikely to get off the ground, TV3HD might happen.
4. The IFB Channel won't happen, while OTV will remain on a Pay TV network for the foreseeable future.


Happy Christmas Everyone.

watty

Predictions
There will be either no Pay DTT, or if there is it goes bust within 3 years. Nothing to do with RTENL charges. Simply not viable in a market that is 30% PAST saturation with PayTV with superior Pay TV platforms to that which Sky & UPC have.

A new pay channel can launch on Sky & UPC at 1/100th of cost of Terrestrial Pay DTT (or less) and have INSTANTLY 82% of homes. A Terrestrial Pay DTT channel not only costs 100x more but you have to get pay DTT boxes or cams + cards in to houses. Also market is less than 5% of homes as most of the 18% of Ireland without PayTV doesn't want pay TV at any price!

4. The IFB Channel won't happen, while OTV will remain on a Pay TV network for the foreseeable future.

Probably true as the Government won't spend the money (they'll waste much more on pointless things though).

5. The Irish International channel won't happen. Even if it does it will be a pointless RTE for the UK channel that will be a waste of money.

6. RTE won't reform RTE Radio.

Mr_Ekan

4. The IFB Channel won't happen

Without naming names, (but you can probably guess) I've heard that it might be launching on an over-the-top basis.

Strawberry HillBilly

Over the top ???? Sorry can you explain for the slow kid down the back what that means please

watty

It means not launching at all. But pretending an Internet Stream is a TV channel. Unless it's Broadcast quality from a server at each DSL Exchange and at each UPC node, you can't have "real" TV over the Internet.

Certainly not with Irish data caps and broadband quality. It's also not cost effective unless you are an ultra-niche channel with 0.01% viewers. For reasonable numbers of viewers real broadcast is cheaper.

You need a really good Broadband connection, an Ethernet enabled TV or Setbox and over 160Gbyte data allowance to do any amount of "OTT" TV watching.

It's an mind numbingly stupid idea for any serious Irish Channel other than a local "village" channel with 20 viewers (I exaggerate a little), especially for a film channel which should be HD.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

It means not launching at all. But pretending an Internet Stream is a TV channel. Unless it's Broadcast quality from a server at each DSL Exchange and at each UPC node, you can't have "real" TV over the Internet..

How ****ing stupid do they think we are? Seriously?

Besides the fact that streaming something that isn't live is quite pointless unless you have a broadcast channel.

They should just stick with a VOD service online http://www.thisisirishfilm.ie/shorts

A live online streaming service is pretty pointless and a waste of money. Unless they are planning a sports/news service or even an Oireachtas service.

Most likely scenario is that they will also put the service on UPC.

Mr. Ekan please name names.

Mr_Ekan

Apols, just trying to use the correct terminology. I think.

Not to be coy, but I've just heard rumours, so it's not my place to say, howAERver, there's only one such operator in Ireland at the moment??!

It's a total cop out by the Irish Film Board but at least they're trying something. Even if their other effort was the season on Setanta over the summer. I don't really see RTENL pulling out the stops apart from commissioning a second TV ad for the changeover, and RTE themselves could do with a bit of similar imagination when it comes to RTE International, as if they're waiting for Exchequer funds, well...good luck to them with that.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

So 2011 came to a disappointing end: -

4. No sight of commercial radio Broadcasters on Saorview.

3 radio services have been recommended by the BAI for inclusion on the Saorview service - All80's,RiRa & EasyFM (Country music) with proposed dates of 2012.

IMHO I doubt that we will hear these services anytime soon - especially with a budgeted carriage cost of €20k pa...

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

3 radio services have been recommended by the BAI for inclusion on the Saorview service - All80's,RiRa & EasyFM (Country music) with proposed dates of 2012.

IMHO I doubt that we will hear these services anytime soon - especially with a budgeted carriage cost of €20k pa...

Radio RiRa is funded by the state to some extent but is also volunteer based. All80's is pretty much Mocha (the DAB station) and EasyFM is a country music service, Sunshine is in trouble so how will a Country Music service survive? But I was mainly talking about established Independent Radio Broadcasters such as Communicorp set of stations and UTV Radio.

You can hear 2 of them now

http://www.rrr.ie/ and http://www.easyfm.ie/

Radio RiRa is produced by the same people as All80's Digital Radio Ltd. http://www.digitalradioltd.com/

But I agree can't seem them on DTT anytime soon.

Elmo wrote: »

Predictions: -

3. New TV or Radio stations will be unlikely to get off the ground, TV3HD might happen.

Mr_Ekan wrote: »

Apols, just trying to use the correct terminology. I think.

Not to be coy, but I've just heard rumours, so it's not my place to say, howAERver, there's only one such operator in Ireland at the moment??!

It's a total cop out by the Irish Film Board but at least they're trying something. Even if their other effort was the season on Setanta over the summer. I don't really see RTENL pulling out the stops apart from commissioning a second TV ad for the changeover, and RTE themselves could do with a bit of similar imagination when it comes to RTE International, as if they're waiting for Exchequer funds, well...good luck to them with that.

At least tell us the rumours in detail I assume the rumour you allude to is either TV3Classics or AerTV.

If the second TV ad that you are talking about is the one with Gay Byrne, then RTÉ NL/Saorview have nothing to do with that ad. That ad is part of the DSO campaign, which is a Platform Neutral Campaign costing the government (Department of Comms) the country the taxpayer €4m to run. www.goingdigital.ie

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

If the second TV ad that you are talking about is the one with Gay Byrne, then RTÉ NL/Saorview have nothing to do with that ad. That ad is part of the DSO campaign, which is a Platform Neutral Campaign costing the government (Department of Comms) the country the taxpayer €4m to run. www.goingdigital.ie

Why do they not use a talking head to point to a corner of the screen and say - 'This spot in the corner is RED if you are receiving analogue TV via an aerial, in which case you need to do something before Oct 24th next.
If it is GREEN, you are already getting Saorview, so you are already ready.
If it is BLUE, you are getting it from a monthly subscription service and you are not affected.' RTENL would provide the spot colours.

So much cheaper than a few cartoon muppets. Simples.

Minstrel27

It wouldn't be much good to some who are colourblind

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why do they not use a talking head to point to a corner of the screen and say - 'This spot in the corner is RED if you are receiving analogue TV via an aerial, in which case you need to do something before Oct 24th next.
If it is GREEN, you are already getting Saorview, so you are already ready.
If it is BLUE, you are getting it from a monthly subscription service and you are not affected.' RTENL would provide the spot colours.

So much cheaper than a few cartoon muppets. Simples.

The Gay Byrne Ads are not part of the Saorview advertising and are supposed to be platform neutral exactly as you point out. The Dog and the cat are a marketing campaign for Saorview alone, and are a separate campaign to that of the Governments DSO campaign.

I have been told that such DOGs/BUGs would be expensive to implement, but are allot cheaper than the "investment" into the Gay Byrne ads which money could have been used to provided OTV and IFB Channels.

I think it would be better to just to put such SPOTS on Analogue Terrestrial TV stations. With none on their Digital Equivalents.

Have you seen the spot? Well then its time to go Digital.

watty

At some stage the Analogue signals are going to have to have a PERMANENT caption till they close.
This transmission ends 24th October 2012. You require a Saorview Set-box or scan for Digital stations on suitable TV sets.
Possibly scrolling

Elmo

watty wrote: »

At some stage the Analogue signals are going to have to have a PERMANENT caption till they close.
This transmission ends 24th October 2012. You require a Saorview Set-box or scan for Digital stations on suitable TV sets.
Possibly scrolling

Indeed why not start now ???? It's only ten months best advertising money can't buy :rolleyes:

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

The Gay Byrne Ads are not part of the Saorview advertising and are supposed to be platform neutral exactly as you point out. The Dog and the cat are a marketing campaign for Saorview alone, and are a separate campaign to that of the Governments DSO campaign.

I have been told that such DOGs/BUGs would be expensive to implement, but are allot cheaper than the "investment" into the Gay Byrne ads which money could have been used to provided OTV and IFB Channels.

I think it would be better to just to put such SPOTS on Analogue Terrestrial TV stations. With none on their Digital Equivalents.

Have you seen the spot? Well then its time to go Digital.

How could it be expensive? They managed to add a Saorview logo about this time last year which was removed soon after. They can add the digital stuff outside the analogue field so it is not seen by non digital viewers. They then add the signals in Donneybrook for each of the feeds, Sky, UPC, and analogue. Can't be hard.

Mind you it took over six months to sort out the RTE2HD bug.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

But I was mainly talking about established Independent Radio Broadcasters such as Communicorp set of stations and UTV Radio.

I doubt if you will hear any of the established independents on Saorview any time soon if ever.

Their natural home should be DAB - but thats another story.

Regarding the on screen messages - anyone recall the last time this was tried ! - RTE 1 was changing to channel 'E' from Kippure and put an 'E' in the right hand corner so viewers could identify it....unfortunately viewers thought this was a fault and to top it off Pat Kenny took it upon himself to explain to viewers on his radio show on how to remove the 'E' from their screens !! (explaining it as an error made by viewers when typing in the name of the station on the set up menu....)

Maybe its different in the un cabled areas but I was in 2 well known TV stores today and both had saorview boxes stuck in corners out of eyeline - indeed one had the boxes on the floor,upside down with no price tags - not much point in spending €4m if you dont have the sellers onside - again it might be different in other shops

Fuzzy Clam

Infoanon wrote: »

3 radio services have been recommended by the BAI for inclusion on the Saorview service - All80's,RiRa & EasyFM (Country music) with proposed dates of 2012.

IMHO I doubt that we will hear these services anytime soon - especially with a budgeted carriage cost of €20k pa...

20k isn't a hellavalot really, is it. Half the average wage...... Surely the costs for carrying the services would be considerably lower. Would make sense to negotiate a fee with the provider. 3 services paying 10K each is better than none paying 20K.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

How could it be expensive? They managed to add a Saorview logo about this time last year which was removed soon after. They can add the digital stuff outside the analogue field so it is not seen by non digital viewers. They then add the signals in Donneybrook for each of the feeds, Sky, UPC, and analogue. Can't be hard.

Mind you it took over six months to sort out the RTE2HD bug.

From what I gather BUG/DOGs are expensive. But as Watty says RTÉ NL will towards the end of Analogue put a scroller on screen.

Give the power over to TV3 after all they will be the first to kick up about a DOG/BUG for DSO on their channel for the next 10 months.

A green spot is put on Analogue Terrestrial RTÉ One, Two, TV3 and TG4, Developed by RTÉ NL, the Green spot is however controlled by TV3. Which gives them the power to animate the spot during their Idents.

Green Spot in the top left hand corner of screen animates when TV3 introduce a new show regardless of what is on RTÉ and TG4.

Digital is coming, you need to get ready, see www.goingdigital.ie for details

I doubt if you will hear any of the established independents on Saorview any time soon if ever.

Radio is their natural home alright but why not place them on soarview, I don't really understand why so called "niche" services don't want to be national Sunshine FM, Phantom FM etc would be a welcomed choice instead they are letting RTÉ's set of niche channels gain listenership. Bizzare, wait until they start complaining.

Regarding the on screen messages - anyone recall the last time this was tried ! - RTE 1 was changing to channel 'E' from Kippure and put an 'E' in the right hand corner so viewers could identify it....unfortunately viewers thought this was a fault and to top it off Pat Kenny took it upon himself to explain to viewers on his radio show on how to remove the 'E' from their screens !! (explaining it as an error made by viewers when typing in the name of the station on the set up menu....)

Many teletext viewers used to get the name of the channel appearing when switching between channels.

• Why didn't broadcasters use this facility to tell the viewers what programme was on the air, as well?
• Why can't RTÉ NL rename NET 2 to RTÉ 2? (this is regardless of Teletext)
• Why not have an Aertel, 3text and Teacs4 page advising viewers which platform they are watching on??????

Maybe its different in the un cabled areas but I was in 2 well known TV stores today and both had saorview boxes stuck in corners out of eyeline - indeed one had the boxes on the floor,upside down with no price tags - not much point in spending €4m if you dont have the sellers onside - again it might be different in other shops

Again and I hate to say it and I think it is absolutely ridiculous but The departments DSO campaign has nothing to do with RTÉ's marketing of Saorview!!!!!!

€4m is being spent on 1) A telephone line 2) A ad with Gay Byrne 3) Some research 4) providing information days in locations to viewers about Digital TV 5) a website sorry no it doesn't cover the website that is done in house by the Department :rolleyes: :mad:

20k isn't a hellavalot really, is it. Half the average wage...... Surely the costs for carrying the services would be considerably lower. Would make sense to negotiate a fee with the provider. 3 services paying 10K each is better than none paying 20K.

An established broadcasters such as Communicorp and UTV could easily afford it! instead we have 3 niche services planning to launch on DTT!!!!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

Radio is their natural home alright but why not place them on soarview, I don't really understand why so called "niche" services don't want to be national Sunshine FM, Phantom FM etc would be a welcomed choice instead they are letting RTÉ's set of niche channels gain listenership. Bizzare, wait until they start complaining.

An established broadcasters such as Communicorp and UTV could easily afford it! instead we have 3 niche services planning to launch on DTT!!!!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The current independents have expressed little or no interest in carriage on Saorview. If they wanted national carriage then UPC/Sky carriage would be far more beneficial.
AFAIK the 'local' independents are not allowed accept advertising from outside their franchise area which would reduce any potential revenue gains.

The €20k carriage cost is the estimate of one of the applicants - EasyFM - NOT the carriage cost from the provider !.

The actual carriage cost may turn out to be many multiples of the figure.

I welcome the addition of the 3 new niche services - Saorview is the only option available for new services at the moment with the BAI 'freeze' on new FM/AM services. I would prefer 3 new services then the slots being taken by current on air stations.

If / When these 3 stations appear is another story !

Elmo

Yeah I was thinking 20,000 was a low est on carriage even for a radio station.

I agree I have no problem with any of the services, my issue is that no radio broadcasters currently licensed by the BAI provided an expression of interest and that none of them have really taken all that much interest in DAB either. Yet they seem to be happy to let RTÉ have defacto radio services.

How many non-RTÉ Irish Radio stations are available on either Sky or UPC? I can only see NewsTalk on Sky, but this is just going on wikipedia. 6 local service (Galway Bay FM being the only non-Dublin station) and Today FM, NewsTalk and 4FM on UPC. (again going on Wiki).

And can a Radio service survive being purely on a Television Platform alone? Will the be on DAB, will they be on Sky or UPC?

In all likelyhood none of them will survive on DTT. And Independents will blame RTÉ when their niche channel gain traction. Saorview doesn't have many TV channels, I know I spend more time listening to the Radio on Saorview then watching the TV, it would be nice to hear other radio stations.

Lets put it this way 3 niche service V 10 RTÉ services.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

Yet they seem to be happy to let RTÉ have defacto radio services.

How many non-RTÉ Irish Radio stations are available on either Sky or UPC? I can only see NewsTalk on Sky, but this is just going on wikipedia. 6 local service (Galway Bay FM being the only non-Dublin station) and Today FM, NewsTalk and 4FM on UPC. (again going on Wiki).

Lets put it this way 3 niche service V 10 RTÉ services.

It would appear that the independents do not see the RTE Saorview services as being any sort of threat - and as things stand I would have to agree. The stations are staffed by volunteers (DJs dont get paid), and while RTE Pulse and 2XM may have some level of programming, RTE Gold reminds me of a compilation CD on repeat, while the potentially popular stations - eg RTE Choice - has no programme listings carried on the EPG's (Saorview may be different).

UPC now carries a lot of the independents - 104/98/NT/SShine/Spin/Phan/4FM/GBR/Today - why it does not carry Q or Nova ?? Carriage on Sky is expensive (and not forgetting copyright/IMRO issues)thus the lack of Irish services.

If Saorview takes off then the independents might get interested - but if the market is as low as 10% (Watty's 5% may be more realistic) then Saorview is destined to be a very expensive flop.

Saorview could have been a huge success - but that ship has sailed....

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

It would appear that the independents do not see the RTE Saorview services as being any sort of threat - and as things stand I would have to agree. The stations are staffed by volunteers (DJs dont get paid), and while RTE Pulse and 2XM may have some level of programming, RTE Gold reminds me of a compilation CD on repeat, while the potentially popular stations - eg RTE Choice - has no programme listings carried on the EPG's (Saorview may be different).

UPC now carries a lot of the independents - 104/98/NT/SShine/Spin/Phan/4FM/GBR/Today - why it does not carry Q or Nova ?? Carriage on Sky is expensive (and not forgetting copyright/IMRO issues)thus the lack of Irish services.

Or DAB for that matter. Show me research into RTÉ Digital Services. I have never even heard how many people living in the republic listen to BBC. JNLR kindly forget about them.

GBR??? But I did say 6 dublin locals, 1 galway local, 2 National and 1 multicity. Carriage on Sky's Irish EPG rather then on Satellite????

If Saorview takes off then the independents might get interested - but if the market is as low as 10% (Watty's 5% may be more realistic) then Saorview is destined to be a very expensive flop.

Saorview could have been a huge success - but that ship has sailed....

That is currently the case but what happens when DSO happens? How many homes have extra TV sets that are terrestrial only? not to mention the terrestrial only homes?

How many people listen to radio on TV?

Up until about 3 months ago all RTÉ Digital Radio stations had listings on Saorview, they have since disappeared replaced by THIS IS RTÉ WHATEVER.

BTW I am not disagreeing with what you are saying.

Elmo

Elmo wrote: »

GBR??? But I did say 6 dublin locals, 1 galway local, 2 National and 1 multicity. Carriage on Sky's Irish EPG rather then on Satellite????

Ah! Galway Bay FM, have they renamed it to Radio?

watty

Infoanon wrote: »

If Saorview takes off then the independents might get interested - but if the market is as low as 10% (Watty's 5% may be more realistic) then Saorview is destined to be a very expensive flop.

Saorview could have been a huge success - but that ship has sailed....

What on earth are you talking about? Saorview is primarily a replacement for Analogue TV. If 15% of people watch it on the main TV and 20% on secondary TVs, then it's a roaring success.

82% of people have at least one TV fed by Pay TV in Ireland. That's about 30 points more than the typical 55% for saturation of a Pay TV market.

If the 82% drops to even 80% due to Saorview and Freesat, then that's very positive.

Very little radio listening is done on Set-boxes or TVs.

Actually the lack of decent all band Table Top radios is slowly strangling radio. Since Personal rather than group listening on portable radio is mostly earphones on a phone that also has loads of MP3s the idea of niche stations playing established titles is also pointless. RTE's "Digital" line up apart from maybe RTE Choice is pointless. Most DAB sets are ghastly affairs and almost none have 6" minimum speaker needed for listening in a room as alternate to HiFi.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

Ah! Galway Bay FM, have they renamed it to Radio?

Apologies - Still Galway Bay FM - GBR was another station from the '80s...

Infoanon

watty wrote: »

What on earth are you talking about? Saorview is primarily a replacement for Analogue TV. If 15% of people watch it on the main TV and 20% on secondary TVs, then it's a roaring success.

82% of people have at least one TV fed by Pay TV in Ireland. That's about 30 points more than the typical 55% for saturation of a Pay TV market.

If the 82% drops to even 80% due to Saorview and Freesat, then that's very positive.

Very little radio listening is done on Set-boxes or TVs.

RTE's "Digital" line up apart from maybe RTE Choice is pointless.

What on earth are you talking about?Radio - the discussion was the lack of independent radio operators showing any interest in Saorview carriage.

I can't see Saorview attracting many viewers from pay TV at the moment. And while at a basic level its a replacement for analogue, its potential is (was) far more then that.
If 82% have pay tv then thats a big market to get a share of - not a reason for a market duopoly to continue.

I agree with you re radio through STB/TVs though there is evidence from the UK that there is some uptake in listenership.

As for RTE Digital radio - RTE Pulse & 2XM listerners might disagree with the assertion that they are pointless - at least they do offer something different.

As for Saorview - for me 'roaring success' is the last term thats come to mind - more 'missed opportunity'

Elmo

The success of Saorview would have been to see a new Irish service begin with multiple channels to allow for cross promotions which is key to digital broadcasting in a Multi-Channel environment. This new broadcaster could be totally independent given a licence based on the idea that it must provide a certain number of hours of prime time TV to Irish Film and Foreign Language Film while also taking care of Oireachtas proceedings. And some grant aid could be provided to the new broadcaster from the DSO campaign run by the Department.

I do not know how much RTÉ is spending on its Soarview marketing campaign, since RTÉ have certain economies of scale its probably not as much as the Departments.

As we pointed out a Green Spot on analogue TV could show viewers that they need to change with information provided by the Department and the BAI, after all the Departments website is developed in-house. This would not have been expensive after all we are only talking about 33% (even less) of the population that rely in some way on Terrestrial broadcasts.

Saorview has missed this opportunities to provide a FTA terrestrial service that might not rival PayTV but would at least provide a stronger option. The current line up is not an alternative to pay but it is also not likely to make those who don't have pay switch. The addition of TV3HD won't improve things, and neither with TG4+1 and TV3+1 sure why not add RTÉ2+1 to the mux???? I can't see Cula4 being rushed launched nor can I see 3KIDS or 3CLASSICS happening this year.

I hope that at least the department will provide Community TV some free space, and it is actually the only channel I can see being provided on Saorview in 2012.

Later a soft pay TV option might provide many with an opportunity to get premium subscription channels.

If I was being optimistic the following would happen in 2012: -

1. The minister would force the suggested new Broadcasters to work together to develop their stations, and use cross promotion to help them gain an audience.
2. The minister would insist that all FTA channels appear on all pay TV platforms (even if that means having to consult with his UK counterpart in relation to Sky)
3. That a soft pay option takes over the commercial muxs, relying on Premium content.
4. RTÉ Two removes RTÉjr programming from its schedule and becomes a full time channel with a remit for TRTÉ programming, and that they loose TWO TUBE. And that they provide far more HD programming then the currently do, Christmas would have been a good time to provide HD pictures for many of the movies Broadcast.
5. That the minister insists that TV3+1 and TG4+1 begin broadcasting. If either company is interested in Digital Broadcasting and new services then they should be able to provide temporary +1 channels right now.

But being pessimistic:-

1. The minister will do little, the department will do even less, the BAI will pretend to launch a licencing round for commercial MUXES.
2. Not even Community TV will appear on Saorview
3. The blame will be left entirely with RTÉ
4. €4m will be wasted on a campaign for a platform neutral DSO campaign that will not mention FTA Satellite and will add more subscribers to UPC and Sky whom already have a strong duopoly in the Pay TV market.
5. The IFB and The Oireachtas Committee will be happy to either provide a online streaming service or a service on just one Pay TV platform

watty

American style Multichannel TV coming to UK has simply resulted in a massive fragmentation of viewing (Sky 1 has less than 2%) and huge drop in quality of the Main UK channels.

It means much less revenue for RTE, TV3, TG4, C4, ITV and Five, so program making suffers.

I'm old enough to remember growing up in UK and start of BBC2, then later addition of C4.

Have you watched a series, bought DVD set or downloaded programs made between 1960 and 1990?

Where are Cosgrave Halls, Oliver Postgates, Gerry Andersons, C4 commissioned and own Production?
Downton Abbey is the 1st Drama ITV have done in years and it's a Soap in badly researched period costume.

Horizon? Rubbish these days.

We have endless repeats of Home Improvement, The Hitler Channel (there is OTHER History), American Trivia and repeats on Discovery, BBC repeats on Animal Planet, The Jeremy Clarkson Channel... We cancelled Sky and buy boxed sets...

Example:
I was watching 1960s B&W "Saint" episodes on DVD recently. Is there anything comparable? Because it's transfer from film and many are Leslie Charteris originals, the quality is superb and stories are still good.

Now programs have to be "gritty", bad language, explore "gender issues" or be superficial US imports. Or just rubbish "Reality" TV and "talk shows".

Look at Christmas RTE guide cover. Our own PSB broadcaster is more obsessed with "presenters" than Content. Time was that a Presenter was simply a well dressed, clearly spoken person that was "pollyfilla" between the real programs. Or a real Journalist that could properly interview.


So IMO Saorview is best thought of a as Digital replacement of Analogue, not really an opportunity for anything, however it's crazy that Oireachtas TV isn't on it and shows a lack of commitment to communication by our Government. I've been able to watch UK and other parliaments for years.

Elmo

I agree, I don't believe that either but it is what people expect. I don't believe that it should just be for RTÉ and TV3 to hold on to their duopoly or that the government should bow to the pressure of the duopoly of the pay tv providers.

Digital TV provides choice of schedules, and maybe different voices. TG4 prove this IMO.

Strong repeatable programming rather then phone in vote line pap. One more national broadcaster won't change things but would be good for competition as would a stronger Saorview line up.

watty

More money and support for TG4 so they can commission more programs.

Sam Russell

What I find most depressing is the total lack of interest by RTE in Saorview. They have been hogtied by the previous governments edict that prevented RTE 3 and forced two extra channels with no adverts - surely a sop to TV3.

RTE NL have done their bit and by 26th May 2011, it was all working when it was launched be Pat the Rabbitte.

Why are they reluctant to tell us about HD broadcasts on RTE 2? Why did they not broadcast RTEjr at the weekend? Why broadcast RTEjr on RTE 2 HD when they had a seperate channel RTEjr for it? They could have shown repeats or HD films, or even a showcase like BBC HD does?

It all smacks of a complete lack of any drive from RTE top management. It is a coincidence (perhaps not) that a new DG started in the spring.

My wishes for 2012 -

1. RTE to drop the use of presenters names in programmes - just have presenters on a rota - as they have with Prime-Time.

2. Sell off all those tele-prompters and train the people not to muff their lines and get then taught how to read. They all stutter and stumble over the prepared script. A good while ago, they did not use a prepared script - now they cannot work without them.

3. Go back to live broadcasting. It was something RTE was very good at.

4. Sack all the STARS - or at least drop the salaries to reasonable levels.

5. Forget low-rent reality shows, vote offs, etc.

6. Get rid of stupid question competitions on premium rate phone lines.

7. Get rid of TV3.

Infoanon

watty wrote: »

More money and support for TG4 so they can commission more programs.

Thats highly unlikely and if anything a decrease is more likely in the current financial climate.

Ultimately more money for TG4 means more taxpayers money - could you imagine the backlash,there is already considerable annoyance among the public over TG4 outbidding RTE for Heineken Cup Rugby and refusing to provide English language commentary (having Brian Cowens former advisor as an analyst doesn't exactly help either IMO). Was taxpayer funding supposed to be used for
this purpose !

As for 2012 - Think Elmo has fairly much summed it up - now if Leo Varadker had got the ministry..........

watty

I agree, it's not going to happen. Nor is anything else "extra".

So you think the Ministers run the Ministries? Mawhahahah

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

Thats highly unlikely and if anything a decrease is more likely in the current financial climate.

Ultimately more money for TG4 means more taxpayers money - could you imagine the backlash,there is already considerable annoyance among the public over TG4 outbidding RTE for Heineken Cup Rugby and refusing to provide English language commentary (having Brian Cowens former advisor as an analyst doesn't exactly help either IMO). Was taxpayer funding supposed to be used for
this purpose !

As for 2012 - Think Elmo has fairly much summed it up - now if Leo Varadker had got the ministry..........

No TG4 did not out bid RTÉ for Heineken Cup, TG4 show as live coverage of the match in Irish, this is a sop to the Heineken Cup debacle in 2010, however like with the deferred Rugby World Cup TG4 have Irish Language only rights. Do RTÉ not still retain their Heineken Cup Highlights package rights?

TG4 did see a cut in exchequer funding with some Licence fee being diverted to them.

If Leo Varadker was in place he would be as ****ing bad as the rest of the FFers that proceeded Minister Ryan. He's is no more than Ray Burke, just lacks the brown envelops. (but thank you all the same )

Will RTÉjr continue to broadcast @ the weekend? or was it just for Christmas?

Infoanon

watty wrote: »

I agree, it's not going to happen. Nor is anything else "extra".

So you think the Ministers run the Ministries? Mawhahahah

New ministers are normally given a gift on their first day from the Civil Service.......Yes Minister boxset

Varadker would have shaken it up a little - Rabbitte will do nothing that would upset RTE

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

New ministers are normally given a gift on their first day from the Civil Service.......Yes Minister boxset

Varadker would have shaken it up a little - Rabbitte will do nothing that would upset RTE

Rabbitte will do nothing to upset Varadker and his party . Let the President take over the Department he is wasted in the Arás.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

No TG4 did not out bid RTÉ for Heineken Cup,

TG4 did outbid RTE to get the highlights rights (Sky has exclusive live coverage). RTE no longer has any rights to show the Heineken Cup.

TG4 latest is that their transmission system cannot provide dual language subcarriers but digital will allow Irish and English options....

Only in Ireland could a service funded by the tax payer outbid another service funded by the tax payer....only one winner in this - Sky Sports

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

TG4 did outbid RTE to get the highlights rights (Sky has exclusive live coverage). RTE no longer has any rights to show the Heineken Cup.

TG4 latest is that their transmission system cannot provide dual language subcarriers but digital will allow Irish and English options....

Only in Ireland could a service funded by the tax payer outbid another service funded by the tax payer....only one winner in this - Sky Sports

Not so TG4 is doing well with that coverage just as good as RTÉ when it had the less coverage.

As I said its a sop to Sky because of the Designation of Sporting Events debacle signed by Minister Rabbitte, something that Leo would have been very chuffed to sign.

Infoanon

Sam Russell wrote: »

What I find most depressing is the total lack of interest by RTE in Saorview.Why are they reluctant to tell us about HD broadcasts on RTE 2? Why did they not broadcast RTEjr at the weekend? Why broadcast RTEjr on RTE 2 HD when they had a seperate channel RTEjr for it? They could have shown repeats or HD films, or even a showcase like BBC HD does?

RTE & Saorview have a product that is exclusive to their platform and has no annual fee - neither rarely mention the existance of RTE2HD.

Sky have aproduct that is exclusive to their platfform and costs €180pa - Sky ram HD down your throat at every opportunity.

Go figure ?

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

Not so TG4 is doing well with that coverage just as good as RTÉ when it had the less coverage.

As I said its a sop to Sky because of the Designation of Sporting Events debacle signed by Minister Rabbitte, something that Leo would have been very chuffed to sign.

I am not getting this sop to Sky ?
TG4 outbid RTE - no sop , just a bidding process.

TG4 rugby coverage has been lambasted on all fronts - language / presentation / scheduling

Sam Russell

Infoanon wrote: »

RTE & Saorview have a product that is exclusive to their platform and has no annual fee - neither rarely mention the existance of RTE2HD.

Sky have aproduct that is exclusive to their platfform and costs €180pa - Sky ram HD down your throat at every opportunity.

Go figure ?

Either RTE are frightened of exploiting Saorview or the Dept have told them to be frightened of exploiting Saorview.

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

I am not getting this sop to Sky ?
TG4 outbid RTE - no sop , just a bidding process.

TG4 rugby coverage has been lambasted on all fronts - language / presentation / scheduling

It is a sop to Premium Pay TV (AKA Sky Sports), again I thought RTÉ still had highlights. C4 compete with BBC.

Eamon Ryan wanted a few Irish rugby games from Heineken Cup in the Designation of Sporting Events, however many kicked up a fuss, particularly IRFU who felt that they would loose money. TG4 now provide full coverage of certain games (As they did for Deferred Irish Language coverage of the RWC matches), I assume that even RTÉ would have had to schedule as TG4 have.

It is the IRFU saying there is FTA coverage. Of course RTÉ should have retained Highlights package or TG4 should have an English Language highlights package in the same way as they have for both Wimbleton and Tour De France.

TG4 have been getting a similar audience as RTÉ Two had for their highlights package.

OldRio

Infoanon wrote: »

I am not getting this sop to Sky ?
TG4 outbid RTE - no sop , just a bidding process.

TG4 rugby coverage has been lambasted on all fronts - language / presentation / scheduling

Not sure where the lambasting comes from ???

TG4 do an excellent job regarding Rugby. Both HEC and Pro12.
RTEs coverage was pathetic to say the least and still is. The presentation is far superior to that of RTE (who couldn't give a monkeys about the Pro 12)

I'm not sure why anyone who is interested in Rugby would moan about the 'scheduling'. Fantastic FTA service for Rugby fans.

Mr_Ekan

please name names

AerTV

Like I said, at least they may be trying to pull something together. On what looks like a shoestring budget.

I'd be even more surprised if the 3Kids/Classics went ahead, as neither genre could be considered a commercial strength for TV3. That said, I'm sure if they got the licence they wouldn't hang about with padding out the schedule with more UK satellite content or opt into another UK station.

watty

TV3 has no money as they are still suffering from the Leveraged buyout.

Infoanon

watty wrote: »

TV3 has no money as they are still suffering from the Leveraged buyout.

And thats not going to change anytime soon. TV3 are dependent on the equity firm Doughty Hanson.

TV3 are also heavily dependent on ITV for programming and a recent development has seen the likes of 'Downton Abbey' and ' Biggest loser' getting their first runs on UTV ahead of TV3.

UTV could pull a lot of advertising income from TV3 if this trend continues though noting that the next 'big' programme 'Dancing on Ice' sees the same transmission times on TV3 & UTV.

Will TV3 make a big splash with TV3HD - or will they take the more muted line of RTE (2HD)......the investment in HD is another drain on TV3's limited resources this year....

Elmo

TV3 HD is a trophy wife, as is RTÉ Two HD. IMO. Lets just sort out channels on Saorview. HD is more expensive than SD, TV3 HD is not needed do we really want to see Mark Cagney in HD.

I suppose its to stop people looking at ITV HD.

TV3 are also heavily dependent on ITV for programming and a recent development has seen the likes of 'Downton Abbey' and ' Biggest loser' getting their first runs on UTV ahead of TV3.

The audience share for UTV has plummeted. From being the 2nd most watch TV station in 2000 with 10% with only 4% in 2011 (5th position). TV3 have been helped by being available on channel 3/103 and UTV not being available on Sky Digital.

watty

Yes, purely down to Sky Digital.

So much for a "free" European Market.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

TV3 HD is not needed do we really want to see Mark Cagney in HD.

The audience share for UTV has plummeted. From being the 2nd most watch TV station in 2000 with 10% with only 4% in 2011 (5th position). TV3 have been helped by being available on channel 3/103 and UTV not being available on Sky Digital.

TV3HD is a waste of money IMHO

UTV suffers from dreadful pixilation on UPC which Gives TV3 an advantage along with the better EPG positioning.

Expect a fight back from UTV - first run on programming will be the key and while EPG is important you can bet that viewers found 110 on christmas night for Downton Abbey.
I am surprised UTV have not used their radio services more to promote the TV service.

Broadcasting 2012 - I expect more shake ups in 2012 - 3e needs a relaunch , Setanta is only breaking even with very low take up of SS1 and City Channel (prime 107 Epg spot on UPC) will either completely close or the slot will be acquired by another broadcaster.

Mr_Ekan

Well considering their premises is currently to let I'd imagine the City Channel slot will go to someone else.
http://goo.gl/vhrYs

Given UPC's tendency to place Irish channels higher up the EPG I wonder will any of the Saorview channels get to run there.

Also, whose paying those PPI rights for the music videos still being shown on City Channel? If they were ever paid:eek:

Elmo

Mr_Ekan wrote: »

Well considering their premises is currently to let I'd imagine the City Channel slot will go to someone else.
http://goo.gl/vhrYs

Given UPC's tendency to place Irish channels higher up the EPG I wonder will any of the Saorview channels get to run there.

Also, whose paying those PPI rights for the music videos still being shown on City Channel? If they were ever paid:eek:

UPC may keep it as a telephone chat line phone in station :rolleyes: or might just keep it blank until something suitable comes along. TV3Classics perhaps if it ever happens, which is unlikely.

Yes PPI right, indeed

UTV need a second channel. It could be cross promoted with UTV and UTV Radio. Many of the Radio stations both north and south get ads on UTV particularly U105 and FM104. The only reason TV3 put Downton Abbey on later than UTV is due to Xtra Factor.