Sexism

Batsy

black francis wrote: »

Please tell us Batsy how many new born children you have looked after and for how long

It'd be impossible for me to ever look after newborn children because, unlike if I was a woman, I'd get almost no paternity leave. I wouldn't have any chance to look after a newborn child because I'd be having to work for my money. A woman is able to stay at home and look after a child and she'd probably get paid for doing so. But a man has no rights to take such a long time off work even if he has a child. He is give much less time off work to look after a child. So you can hardly blame men for not staying at home looking after the children.

So basically your suggestion that women should be paid less because they take maternity leave is wrong legally, morally and logically.

Men, on average, work longer hours than women. One reason for this is that men are not able to take months off work to look after babies as women are able to do so. Women work less hours than men and that is why, on average, they get paid less. And so they should be if they are working less.

kate.m

robman60 wrote: »

Just another example of sexism towards men that is pretty much ignored.

Personally, I believe sexism has gone full circle, where it's seen as fine to slander men "for the craic", but if something is directed at women "for the craic" it's immediately seen as sexism.

I swear it's everywhere. For example, every so often I see that feckin' mothers and babies magazine. Surely Parents and babies would be much more appropriate? If it were called fathers and babies there'd be a big deal about that.

Finally, the dumbest example is the proposition that women should be given a certain number of Dail seats. People want the best people doing the job, male or female. Surely if women wanted lots more women they'd vote for one. I doubt there are any constituencies where no women ran in the last election.

It's time each gender stopped blaming the other gender, women don't have any more insight than men, even if Midday on TV3 or any of those ****ty programmes suggest they do.

First off, the magazine should be called parents and babies, maybe it's just outdated. Hardly sexism though. It's just aimed at women, there is probably another magazine out there aimed at men. Still It should be parents and babies. Agree there.

As for the dail thing I agree, people will vote who's best. Male or female. Shouldn't matter.

No one thinks women have more or less insight, don't watch those twats on tv3. They're usually really uninformed anyway. Why would you watch what you call. ****ty anyway. They don't prove and can't claim to be right anyway.

As for the first comment I totally disagree. Different experiences maybe.

number10a

Letting the couple themselves decide is without a doubt the best way forward. Every single household in Ireland is different. So one formula (mother gets time off), or even two formulas (mother gets half the time, dad gets half the time; or mother gets all the time) is not sufficient to allow the family to work the best way they want to/need to.

Quite often now in Ireland, the woman earns more because they are, on average, better educated, plus we have a big glut of excess construction workers now working in sectors they aren't specialised/experienced in, thereby resulting in a lower wage. So every family should be allowed to decide how they want those eight months. One for mum, seven for dad. Eight for mum, none for dad. Four each, etc. Regardless of who is off work, it's a State-paid benefit (for the most part) so it doesn't really make a difference either way to the government coffers.

Batsy

number10a wrote: »

Quite often now in Ireland, the woman earns more because they are, on average, better educated

Women are only better educated than men because the education system nowadays is skewed in girls' and women's favour.

holystungun9

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I suppose if men could breastfeed everything would be a lot easier.

If men had breasts, the last thing they would do with them is breastfeed.

Johnny Bitte

Seen lots of new mums and dads in my my dept over the years, dads are walking zombie's the first 2-3 months after the babies born.

One guy was shipped off to another country 4 days after his second was born.

Jimoslimos

Batsy wrote: »

Women, on average, keep working less hours than men, but then they complain that they get paid less than men.

It reminds me of Wimbledon. The male tennis stars play matches of a maximum of five sets. The women play matches of a maximum of three sets. Yet, in the name of "equality", the women players get paid the same as men.

In my view, as the women players do less, they should get paid less than the men. If they are to be paid the same as the men then they should be made to play five-set matches.

I'm pretty sure Usain Bolt gets paid way more for the 100m sprint than Gebraisaillaise (don't correct - I know it's wrong!) for the 10,000m - not fair! UB should be made to run a further 9900m for his pay cheque

number10a

Batsy wrote: »

Women are only better educated than men because the education system nowadays is skewed in girls' and women's favour.

How? I'm a guy and I am better educated that most people I know, men and women. If the education system was skewed towards women, I shouldn't have gotten the qualifications I have. More women tend to stay on in the education system than men. Simple as that. After 21 years in the Irish education system, I cannot think of a single subject or course where I felt hard done by because I was male.

By the way, where in Bolton did you get that wonderful insight into Irish education that you seem to have?

Hangballlouie

kate.m wrote: »

First off, the magazine should be called parents and babies, maybe it's just outdated. Hardly sexism though. It's just aimed at women, there is probably another magazine out there aimed at men. Still It should be parents and babies. Agree there.
As for the dail thing I agree, people will vote who's best. Male or female. Shouldn't matter. No one thinks women have more or less insight, don't watch those twats on tv3. They're usually really uninformed anyway. Why would you watch what you call. ****ty anyway. They don't prove and can't claim to be right anyway.
As for the first comment I totally disagree. Different experiences maybe.

Stop making sense and make me a sandwich.

sebastianlieken

Abi wrote: »

Didnt take long for the woman-bashing to kick in, did it?





Yeah, but .. but... it's not fair!!!

*folds arms*



































What fucking next? :rolleyes:

atrophy :P </joke>

ScumLord

TheZohan wrote: »

Yeah but lets not forget that women aren't carrying a fully grown baby around inside them for 9 months. At 6 months the baby still only weighs 1 1/2-2lbs.

Yes but they do have a growing parasite inside them that will demand more and more and more off them as they grow bigger and bigger, it takes a huge toll, women regularly died during child birth it's such a physically draining task.

There's also the unavoidable point that in general women are better at raising children, they're physically adapted to it. As much as we would like equality men and women are different and that's a good thing, women in general are good at what men are bad at and visa versa.

Men should get more leave though, we have the most to learn and it will be more difficult for us to learn it as we don't have the natural drive a woman would have for it.

busyliving

The level of inequality for a great many things is very annoying and unfair...

But one thing I've seen in my previous job, has been women milking their pregnancy...not able to do their normal tasks, and using it as an excuse to not be able to work Fridays or weekends...

But going off topic here, women got paid the same as me, but didn't do any kind of lifting...all heavy lifting was done by me and even moderate lifting my me while, so I and a few of the other male staff did extra duties and the women got paid the same as us, very unequal system...And its why if I ever run or own a business I'll never employ a women...and if i do she will be too old to have kids

Sorry for going off topic on my rant:D

kate.m

hangballlouie wrote: »

Stop making sense and make me a sandwich.[/

...is it bad you're the third person today to tell me that?

*mutters angrily under breath and goes to make sandwich*....:rolleyes:

Frank Black

busyliving wrote: »

The level of inequality for a great many things is very annoying and unfair...

But one thing I've seen in my previous job, has been women milking their pregnancy...not able to do their normal tasks, and using it as an excuse to not be able to work Fridays or weekends...

But going off topic here, women got paid the same as me, but didn't do any kind of lifting...all heavy lifting was done by me and even moderate lifting my me while, so I and a few of the other male staff did extra duties and the women got paid the same as us, very unequal system...And its why if I ever run or own a business I'll never employ a women...and if i do she will be too old to have kids

Sorry for going off topic on my rant:D

Well, you'd make a pretty crap lapdance club owner then.

Millicent

busyliving wrote: »

.And its why if I ever run or own a business I'll never employ a women...and if i do she will be too old to have kids

I think I speak for all the women here when I say I wouldn't want to work for you anyway. We're not all bloody baby machines, you know.

3qsmavrod5twfe

I agree that there should be more rights for men in terms of leave, but I fear that there is no "one size fits all" solution to it.

Despite the protestations, men and women are different, but that does not mean they are not equal. However womens' groups tend to be more vocal in asserting their rights and issues that concern them than men. They've certainly had more practise as they have been in existence since suffrage and the womens' lib movement, whereas the mens advocacy groups are a relatively new phenomenom. Therefore you are more likely to hear mass protestations about how a particular golf club doesn't accept female members, but you won't get a line of lads waving placards outside the local women only gym.

Anywhere I have worked over the last 10 years, women get paid the same rates as the guys if they do the same job, but as is their perogative, if they decide that they want to have kids then they are foregoing a lot of opportunities in their employment. 8 or 9 months is a long time to be out of a workplace, and you have to accept the fact that promotions and pay raises may well be handed out in that time to those who are there, be it men or women who are not on maternity leave. But even when they do return they have been out of the loop for so long that there is inevitably a learning curve to get back to the position they were in beforehand so after 12 months you are back where you started in terms of career progression, but anyone not on leave has moved on another 12 months in terms of experience and exposure.

I am not for one minute saying that raising a newborn child is not hard work, but from an employer's perspective, why should they care. It comes to end of year and Mr.X and Ms.Y have worked hard for the year and are being given a raise (I know it is completely hypothetical in the current climate) but they are not going to sit down and say that Ms.Z has been working really hard and done a top notch job raising little Johnny or Mary, lets give her a raise also. We are not a socialist state yet so rewards for work done in your employment should not extend to everyone. If that was the case why would anyone even bother.

The Irish legal system is skewed in favour of the mother in terms of rights to the child be it maternity leave, guardianship, custody etc. I believe it is pretty much written into the constitution and as such I think that is a minefield that none of our political betters are willing to cross.

Not really sure what my point is with all of this. Maybe it is that men should have equal access for paternity leave as women do to maternity leave, but be willing to face the same career consequences if they choose to avail of it.

That or mat/paternity leave for some, free minature flags for others.

Jimoslimos

busyliving wrote: »

But going off topic here, women got paid the same as me, but didn't do any kind of lifting...all heavy lifting was done by me and even moderate lifting my me while, so I and a few of the other male staff did extra duties and the women got paid the same as us, very unequal system..

Be thankful you have one attribute that confers an advantage in the workplace - might think differently when a robot makes your heavyman position redundant.

Artur Foden

I don't see the harm in giving dads a bit of paternity leave. I'm certainly not trying to pretend that it's easy carrying a baby for 9 months as you would as a mother. It's great that mums can take a good while off work. I'm not even trying to compare it.

But are there any real reasons men shouldn't have the same thing, even for a month or two? You hear these days that a lot of families are growing up without much paternal involvement so surely making it easy for men to be with their kids by giving paid leave would help change that?

ScumLord

Artur Foden wrote: »

But are there any real reasons men shouldn't have the same thing, even for a month or two?

To be the bread winner while the mother is minding the newborn. That's the reason men haven't been at home in the past.

Millicent

ScumLord wrote: »

To be the bread winner while the mother is minding the newborn. That's the reason men haven't been at home in the past.

That's not a real reason these days though.

Stiffler2

sebastianlieken wrote: »

ach I think some people may be hitting the wrong note in being over defensive in asserting their point. The point is, equality is very main-stream these days, women can do everything a guy can do, but don't forget that the opposite therefore also has to be true! Does a dad not have a right to raise his kid in equal quantity as his mum?

I think sexism has come to a point these days where it's now the opposite.
The man is discriminated against while women can do everything men do these days + more

example :

They can make sexist / derrogatory jokes / comments in work and everyone laughs. I knew if a man said half the $hit women say in my workplace there would be a sexual harrassment suit made against them.

Women can take 9 months off work while the man gets nothing.
Women have full rights over the child, the man has nothing.

The most recent example would be dildo's / vibrators.
Can you remember if a man back in the day, even today I don't know gets a sex doll he is a dirty pervert but for women with dildo's it's "sophisticated"

I reckon quite soon men will have no rights at all anymore.

desertcircus

Stiffler2 wrote: »

The most recent example would be dildo's / vibrators.
Can you remember if a man back in the day, even today I don't know gets a sex doll he is a dirty pervert but for women with dildo's it's "sophisticated"

I reckon quite soon men will have no rights at all anymore.

What does the public perception of sex toys for men versus the public perception of sex toys for women have to do with rights?

Millicent

Stiffler2 wrote: »

I think sexism has come to a point these days where it's now the opposite.
The man is discriminated against while women can do everything men do these days + more

example :

They can make sexist / derrogatory jokes / comments in work and everyone laughs. I knew if a man said half the $hit women say in my workplace there would be a sexual harrassment suit made against them.

Women can take 9 months off work while the man gets nothing.
Women have full rights over the child, the man has nothing.

The most recent example would be dildo's / vibrators.
Can you remember if a man back in the day, even today I don't know gets a sex doll he is a dirty pervert but for women with dildo's it's "sophisticated"

I reckon quite soon men will have no rights at all anymore.

And why have you not brought a harassment case against them if it bothers you that much? Why are you waiting for someone else to do it?

And vibrators? That's your argument? Really?!

ScumLord

Millicent wrote: »

That's not a real reason these days though.

Not when the state is willing to pay for the family to take time off.

Stiffler2 wrote: »

example :

They can make sexist / derrogatory jokes / comments in work and everyone laughs. I knew if a man said half the $hit women say in my workplace there would be a sexual harrassment suit made against them.

When a man says it everybody listens, women aren't funny so nobody listens to their jokes making the point irrelevant.

Millicent

ScumLord wrote: »

Not when the state is willing to pay for the family to take time off.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

ScumLord wrote: »

When a man says it everybody listens, women aren't funny so nobody listens to their jokes making the point irrelevant.

Does that make you a woman then?

Eric Cartman

Happens in fashion too , there have been lots of anti-male tshirts and the like that seem to be fine , any time an anti woman tshirt rolls around it ends up on the news

orourkeda

Wheres me dinner?

sebastianlieken

just out of curiousity (not that i'm planning on starting a movement or anything): but how would something like this be raised into action?

Omackeral

This isn't as heavy as parental issues or wages arguments but it's something I saw this week that annoyed me.

The new Lindt Lindor chocolate ad with Roger Federer in it. The female security staff are stopping him going through the airport with his 'balls' (even if they are only chocolate). After this, the pair of them conclude that they should do strip search on him anyway. I imagine there would be uproar if the roles were reversed. Here's the ad.

Also, I bet if those Hunky Dorys billboards had muscular men on them, there'd have been no public outcry/ b*tchfest.

harrythehat

To get back on topic, I think it would be great if employers and the government were more supportive of paternity leave, to the tune of 1 month - 6 weeks.

To my mind, a woman needs longer because she has gone through a considerable trauma physically during childbirth, and emotionally as well.

In addition to this, breastfeeding is important during the first few months, and if we want to continue supporting this then we need to leave women's entitlements as they are.