Sexism

sebastianlieken

Now I have alot of issues with sexism in the "modern" world, but one issue that stands out which I find perticularly unfair is maternity/paternity leave.

In the company where I work, dad's get....*drum roll*..... 1 (one) day of paternity leave. Is there any reasoning as to why the mum gets all of 8 months (?) maternity leave while the dad gets squat?! Why isn't the time split 50:50 between mum and dad?

• This solves the problem of employers looking upon women less favorably due to taking off extended periods of time from work.
  
• It breaks maternity downtime into smaller, more managable chunks for employers.
  
• It means the dad can be just as big a part of the childs upbringing as mum.

My proposal is that mum's get the first 4 months off while dad is in work, and then the option is there for dad's to take the next 4 months off while mum goes back to work.

Would any boardsie dads have appreciated this option?

TheZohanS

Fathers can take Parental Leave. That's up to 14 weeks unpaid leave.

Teyla Emmagan

I suppose if men could breastfeed everything would be a lot easier.

TheZohan

TheZohan wrote: »

Fathers can take Parental Leave. That's up to 14 weeks unpaid leave.

can you claim stamps when your on parental leave then?

Noopti

TheZohan wrote: »

Fathers can take Parental Leave. That's up to 14 weeks unpaid leave.

That is completely different to paternity leave.

And OP: I am pretty sure some Scandinavian countries have a system like the one you propose, and I think it makes a lot of sense.

keano_afc

Sexism is an easy thing to understand. When its directed at women, its sexism. When its directed at men, its "having a laugh".

TheZohanS

Deleted User wrote: »

can you claim stamps when your on parental leave then?

No idea, I don't have any kids but I'm pretty sure if you click the link I posted it's in that.

Batsy

Women, on average, keep working less hours than men, but then they complain that they get paid less than men.

It reminds me of Wimbledon. The male tennis stars play matches of a maximum of five sets. The women play matches of a maximum of three sets. Yet, in the name of "equality", the women players get paid the same as men.

In my view, as the women players do less, they should get paid less than the men. If they are to be paid the same as the men then they should be made to play five-set matches.

Frank Black

Batsy wrote: »

Women, on average, keep working less hours than men, but then they complain that they get paid less than men.

It reminds me of Wimbledon. The male tennis stars play matches of a maximum of five sets. The women play matches of a maximum of three sets. Yet, in the name of "equality", the women players get paid the same as men.

In my view, as the women players do less, they should get paid less than the men. If they are to be paid the same as the men then they should be made to play five-set matches.

Tennis and Paternity Leave - they're the same thing really.

Noopti

So what you are saying is women work less then men, so women should not get as much maternity leave? Or something else?

Having trouble figuring out what point you are trying to make tbh.

Triangla

Woman pops out a kid she's had in her body for the previous 9 months.

Takes a fair bit of time to recover from that physically and emotionally so in my opinion they deserve this time to recover.

If I took 4 months parental leave while my partner went back to work I'd feel like a douchebag.

punk77

TBF, women do carry the child inside them for 9 months. How many men,if it were possible, would be willing to do that?

Oranage2

I think everybody is forgetting that woman go through physical and emotional changes during child birth that med just dont go through and I for one do not want some fat hormonal cow annoying me in the office.

Not sexiest just fair on other staff.

sebastianlieken

yup, and there's car insurance discrimination going out the window at the end of next year, yet my girlfriends think thta's completley unreasonable and unfair.

then there's my girlfriends in college who got grants for doing engineering simply cause they *need* more women in engineering for some reason. (...any guys ever get a grant to do nursing before?)

but I digress...

@ Noopti - what is it you dont get? i'm not saying women work less than men. I think they generally work the same. And if that is indeed the case, then why dont men get the same amount of paternity leave as a woman in order to raise their child.

Dotrel

Batsy wrote: »

In my view, as the women players do less, they should get paid less than the men. If they are to be paid the same as the men then they should be made to play five-set matches.

I'd be even more extreme than that tbh. If women tennis players want to get paid the same as men then they should enter the mens ATP tour. Let them try that for a year and you'll see them all crawling back to their original paycheck when they can't even earn a living from the game anymore.

TheZohanS

Triangla wrote: »

Woman pops out a kid she's had in her body for the previous 9 months.

Takes a fair bit of time to recover from that physically and emotionally so in my opinion they deserve this time to recover.

If I took 4 months parental leave while my partner went back to work I'd feel like a douchebag.

punk77 wrote: »

TBF, women do carry the child inside them for 9 months. How many men,if it were possible, would be willing to do that?

Yeah but lets not forget that women aren't carrying a fully grown baby around inside them for 9 months. At 6 months the baby still only weighs 1 1/2-2lbs.

Batsy

black francis wrote: »

Tennis and Paternity Leave - they're the same thing really.

I'm giving another example of women working less than men but expecting to be paid the same.

jester77

Pretty equal here and up to the parents how to split it. Most of the lads will take the first month off after the birth and then take another couple of months off when the child is a little older.

Noopti

sebastianlieken wrote: »

@ Noopti - what is it you dont get? i'm not saying women work less than men. I think they generally work the same. And if that is indeed the case, then why dont men get the same amount of paternity leave as a woman in order to raise their child.

Sorry, I was referring to the nonsensical post some other guy made about tennis matches!

sebastianlieken

Triangla wrote: »

Takes a fair bit of time to recover from that physically and emotionally so in my opinion they deserve this time to recover.

If I took 4 months parental leave while my partner went back to work I'd feel like a douchebag.

It's called maternity leave for a reason, not recovery leave. It's just a traditional idea that the women look after the baby while the man goes out and puts food on the table. It's done this way becasue it's always been done this way.

And that's fair enough if you didn't want to do that, if you would feel like a douche. that's fine, that's you're call, but that's whay I said there should be an option, not an enforcment. Many women are career driven, they dont want to be left behind! The option would be of mutual benefit.

Batsy

Originally Posted by punk77
TBF, women do carry the child inside them for 9 months. How many men,if it were possible, would be willing to do that?

Men often have to bleed the radiator in the car engine, lay down a patio in the garden, take things out of the loft or unblock the drains.

How many women would be willing to do that?

henryd65

What about adoptive leave. A woman is entitled to avail of this which has the same rights as maternity leave. A man cannot.

kate.m

Batsy wrote: »

Men often have to bleed the radiator in the car engine, lay down a patio in the garden, take things out of the loft or unblock the drains.

How many women would be willing to do that?

Lots. Because it's physically possible.
Look I agree that it should be fair and that there seriously needs to be an increase in paternity leave, just your comparisons don't make sense.

Also, bleeding a radiator? Not that difficult.

desertcircus

Batsy wrote: »

Men often have to bleed the radiator in the car engine, lay down a patio in the garden, take things out of the loft or unblock the drains.

How many women would be willing to do that?

My parents split when I was seven and my mother did every one of those things until my brother and I were old enough to do them. Are you seriously being that sexist, or are you joking?

sebastianlieken

kate.m wrote: »

Lots. Because it's physically possible.
Look I agree that it should be fair and that there seriously needs to be an increase in paternity leave, just your comparisons don't make sense.

Also, bleeding a radiator? Not that difficult.

ach I think some people may be hitting the wrong note in being over defensive in asserting their point. The point is, equality is very main-stream these days, women can do everything a guy can do, but don't forget that the opposite therefore also has to be true! Does a dad not have a right to raise his kid in equal quantity as his mum?

kate.m

sebastianlieken wrote: »

ach I think some people may be hitting the wrong note in being over defensive in asserting their point. The point is, equality is very main-stream these days, women can do everything a guy can do, but don't forget that the opposite therefore also has to be true! Does a dad not have a right to raise his kid in equal quantity as his mum?

As I said above, yeah he should. It should be equal. I don't disagree. I don't know maybe if it was 4 months each, the first four for the whole post pregnancy recovery thing. I don't know how it would work, but I didn't say or state the dad has less right!

Frank Black

Batsy wrote: »

I'm giving another example of women working less than men but expecting to be paid the same.

Please tell us Batsy how many new born children you have looked after and for how long - I assure you as a man, there were times I was very glad to be heading into an office rather than being left at home - the fact you portray maternity leave as 'working less' exposes your own ignorance as to what is actually involved.

Even if I was to skip over your insulting terminology and just look at it from an economic viewpoint, you'd still be wrong - you see society needs children, they're the future consumers and they're the future workers who'll be paying for your old age pension.

So basically your suggestion that women should be paid less because they take maternity leave is wrong legally, morally and logically.

robman60

Just another example of sexism towards men that is pretty much ignored.

Personally, I believe sexism has gone full circle, where it's seen as fine to slander men "for the craic", but if something is directed at women "for the craic" it's immediately seen as sexism.

I swear it's everywhere. For example, every so often I see that feckin' mothers and babies magazine. Surely Parents and babies would be much more appropriate? If it were called fathers and babies there'd be a big deal about that.

Finally, the dumbest example is the proposition that women should be given a certain number of Dail seats. People want the best people doing the job, male or female. Surely if women wanted lots more women they'd vote for one. I doubt there are any constituencies where no women ran in the last election.

It's time each gender stopped blaming the other gender, women don't have any more insight than men, even if Midday on TV3 or any of those ****ty programmes suggest they do.

Abi

keano_afc wrote: »

Sexism is an easy thing to understand. When its directed at women, its sexism. When its directed at men, its "having a laugh".

Didnt take long for the woman-bashing to kick in, did it?

punk77 wrote: »

TBF, women do carry the child inside them for 9 months. How many men,if it were possible, would be willing to do that?

Yeah, but .. but... it's not fair!!!

*folds arms*



































What fucking next? :rolleyes:

Batsy

kate.m wrote: »

Lots. Because it's physically possible.

And if it was physically possible for men to get pregnant then I suspect that lots of men would be willing to get pregnant.

Look I agree that it should be fair and that there seriously needs to be an increase in paternity leave, just your comparisons don't make sense.

My comparisons do make sense.

Women want loads of time off in maternity leave when they have a baby. And, overall, women work less hours than men on average. A lot of this would be to do with all the maternity leave that women get.

Yet women complain that they get paid less than men and demand the same wages.

This is what happens at Wimbledon. Women players work less than men but get paid the same as the men. In my view, they work less at Wimbledon so should be paid less.

Also, bleeding a radiator? Not that difficult.

Getting pregnant isn't that difficult, either.

irelandrover

black francis wrote: »

Please tell us Batsy how many new born children you have looked after and for how long - I assure you as a man, there were times I was very glad to be heading into an office rather than being left at home - the fact you portray maternity leave as 'working less' exposes your own ignorance as to what is actually involved.

Even if I was to skip over your insulting terminology and just look at it from an economic viewpoint, you'd still be wrong - you see society needs children, they're the future consumers and they're the future workers who'll be paying for your old age pension.

So basically your suggestion that women should be paid less because they take maternity leave is wrong legally, morally and logically.

I think Mothers should be entitled to the 8 months or whatever it is. But men should get more than 1 day. How about you also answer the issue about women getting maternity leave when they adopt? Any argument about the woman needing time for their body to recover does not apply there and it is very clear sexism against men.