Should there be a Cat Licence ?

mathepac

WIZE wrote: »

So you will be paying a cat licence if it is introduced ?

God help us all but you seem to suffer from scotomata in relation to my posts.

WIZE

mathepac wrote: »

God help us all but you seem to suffer from scotomata in relation to my posts.

ok you can clear it up for me

as by law all dogs should be licenced .

could you please tell me your reason why you believe there should be no Cat licence.

or

Should there be no licence for animals

are you serious

mathepac wrote: »

God help us all but you seem to suffer from scotomata in relation to my posts.

WIZE wrote: »

ok you can clear it up for me
as by law all dogs should be licenced .
could you please tell me your reason why you believe there should be no Cat licence.
or
Should there be no licence for animals

MEOWWWWWWWW

you 2 need to calm down, its Christmas!!!

WIZE

garkane wrote: »

MEOWWWWWWWW

you 2 need to calm down, its Christmas!!!

lol

I'm just trying to understand the point of view on having a cat licence

I have dogs but I love cats too.

I've nothing against Mat. I'm just interested

Manach

No - If the generation of waste was the main criteria for a licence, then Leinster house would be a prime source.

mathepac

garkane wrote: »

MEOWWWWWWWW

you 2 need to calm down, its Christmas!!!

Why are you here -- you and your cousin have bleedin' dogs Yizzer gangin' up on me. Help :eek:

mathepac

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Maybe it would be better to have some kind of licensing system for humans who want to even think about having pets. ...

Great idea, just that little bit too late; see my earlier post which you (and other posters who shall remain nameless WIZE) can't seem to see, Boo Hoo! Poor Me!

cnocbui

WIZE wrote: »

ok you can clear it up for me

as by law all dogs should be licenced .

could you please tell me your reason why you believe there should be no Cat licence.

or

Should there be no licence for animals

Three incidents I have personal knowledge of:

Two large dogs in a muddy boggy field harrassing a mare and her foal who were floundering in boggy ground and not able to retaliate or escape. The mare and foal were terrified and I do not know if or what harm they came to, nor would the terrain allow me to intervene. Had they suffered harm and if I was their owner, I would have wanted a means of tracing their owner/s after shooting them.

Someone I know personally had a small pack of dogs maim and kill 54 lambs and ewes. most of them were mauled so badly they had to be shot out of kindness. Again, a means of tracing the owners would be of benefit. The guards and local dog warden were called but there was no means of identifying the owner of the one dog that had managed to be shot. The warden did patrol the village the remaining dogs were seen making for and issued a handful of fines for animals found without licenses.

A friend and I found a ewe that had had its face literally ripped off by two dogs which took off. We had to cut it's throat.

Then there is damage done to cars that hit large dogs that roam.

Cats do not cause such problems and so there is not the same necessity for tracing their owners.

Overature

**** off with license

are you serious

Cnocbui you have given reasons there for what you believe is the reason why dogs should be licenced fair enough they are your views..

The thread's title is; Should there be a cat licence? My interpretation of your answer to this is no because a cat doesn't pose a threat to livestock... am I reading that right?

Jimmy Garlic

My dog ''died'' years ago;). Hell will freeze over before I pay for a cat license.

paddyandy

Try putting that idea into reality....Wardens sitting in vans with binoculars watching to see which cat goes into which house...pursuing the cat and owner..denials...courts clogged up enough as they are . Have them doctored more cheaply would be more practical.

Lawliet

I always assumed the dog license's were as cnocbui outlined; because dogs do a lot of damage. Unchecked dogs can attack animals and people, but wild cats generally don't attack anything bigger than themselves unless cornered. Dirty cats are disgusting but I don't see how a license would solve this problem since culling a large number of feral cats generally isn't considered a good idea, better to trap, neuter and return them.
Someone mentioned before about owners stopping their cats from wandering, I'm genuinely curious how someone would go about this, you can't keep an outdoor cat inside they'll go nuts before long, there isn't a wall high enough that can prevent a determined cat from escaping nor I have I ever found a collar strong enough to survive an angry cat's claws. You could train a kitten to accept these things, but not an adult cat. Besides I don't see the sense of having wardens trying to catch clean, neutered cats who have owners and aren't going to do any harm.

I'd be happy to license my cats if there was any point to it, any realistic goal, or benefit to either cats or the general public, but I haven't seen one convincing argument for it.

Cherry Blossom

Lawliet wrote: »

I'd be happy to license my cats if there was any point to it, any realistic goal, or benefit to either cats or the general public, but I haven't seen one convincing argument for it.

My cousin spent 2 weeks in intensive care when he was 2 years old due to a severe allergic reaction to toxocariasis caused by his neighbours un-wormed cat using his sandbox as a toilet, that's a lot more damage than any dog has ever caused any of my family members. Cat proofing a garden is relatively simple and can be done without having to incur massive costs, I know because my uncle put up DIY cat nets to keep them out after this incident happened. People don't know this can be done because it hasn't occurred to them to look into it.

We also had a feral cat hanging around here for over 15 years, it lept out of hedges and clawed my nan's face to shreds on more than one occasion, I don't know if it has been poisoned or had some other condition that made it crazy but it was. Feral cats are regularly trapped for neutering purposes, I don't see how tame ones would be more difficult to catch.

Because I live in a rural area a lot of people drive jeeps, I've seen more than one engine wrecked as a result of a cat climbing inside it. The benefit to cats is that they don't get abducted by idiots for purpose of providing them with entertainment, they don't get eaten by dogs, poisoned, shot, attacked by other cats. The benefit to the owner is that their cat doesn't suddenly disappear never to come home and they never have to scrape the remains pet off the road. The benefit to me is that I can let my dog out in my own garden without having to remove disgusting cat faeces from her hair.

Lawliet

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

My cousin spent 2 weeks in intensive care when he was 2 years old due to a severe allergic reaction to toxocariasis caused by his neighbours un-wormed cat using his sandbox as a toilet, that's a lot more damage than any dog has ever caused any of my family members.

In order to justify a license of this sort the danger to the public from incidents like this would have to statistically significant -now I don't know whether they are or not, if they are then you've made valid point. Isolated incidents while very unfortunate and tragic, don't necessarily warrant this kind of response as there'll always be at least one example where that species has seriously harming a human.

Cat proofing a garden is relatively simple and can be done without having to incur massive costs, I know because my uncle put up DIY cat nets to keep them out after this incident happened. People don't know this can be done because it hasn't occurred to them to look into it.

Not everyone lives in a place where "cat nets" would be a realistic solution.

Because I live in a rural area a lot of people drive jeeps, I've seen more than one engine wrecked as a result of a cat climbing inside it. The benefit to cats is that they don't get abducted by idiots for purpose of providing them with entertainment, they don't get eaten by dogs, poisoned, shot, attacked by other cats. The benefit to the owner is that their cat doesn't suddenly disappear never to come home and they never have to scrape the remains pet off the road. The benefit to me is that I can let my dog out in my own garden without having to remove disgusting cat faeces from her hair.

Forgive me for being stupid, but I don't see how a license stops half of this? Most of this seems to rely on the ability of the owner to stop their cat from wandering -which there is no universal solution to- and therefore addresses none of the problems with stray or wild cats.

Cherry Blossom

Lawliet wrote: »

Forgive me for being stupid, but I don't see how a license stops half of this? Most of this seems to rely on the ability of the owner to stop their cat from wandering -which there is no universal solution to- and therefore addresses none of the problems with stray or wild cats.

What happens currently with dogs, livestock or anything that has licensing in place is that the owner of the animal is liable for any damage caused by that animal, if they are not controlling that animals behaviour then action can be taken on this. Problematic cats can not be dealt with this way which often leads to the person that has the problem dealing with the problem in their own way. Would you be happy enough for someone to do this if your cat was causing someone a problem? What would you do if a neighbour knocked on your door, told you their child was allergic to cats and asked you to ensure your pet stays off their property?

Jimmy Garlic

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

What would you do if a neighbour knocked on your door, told you their child was allergic to cats and asked you to ensure your pet stays off their property?

I'd tell him to get real.

ebbsy

They should have a stupidity licence for ministers, they would rake in enough cash for ten anglos.

Scruffles

have long thought there shoud be a licence for ANY pet,whether its a mouse,a hamster...right down to a horse...
there shoud be a test required on basic animal care knowledge to show that the person is mentaly capable and sensible enough to take care of the animal.

we dont have any pet licences over here in england,but both here and ireland it shoud be a smaller sum charged-possibly given to pet charities to pay for the upkeep of the animals that end up being rehomed.
they shoudnt charge a lot for a licence,the money shoud be going on the pet.

its ridiculous that humans can have animals in their care and not be checked over it,thats why we have so many people incapable of looking after animals and letting it get to the stage where the animal suffers, and also why we have abuse,neglect and fatal incidents from those who knowingly allow/cause it to happen.

the downside to licencing is the underground buying of animals,it just makes the unsuitables end up buying a pet then often keeping them well hidden from the public which woud make yet more abuse and neglect go un noticed.
itd also end up with yet more animals being abandoned or slaughtered because they dont want to get licences or know they woudnt pass for whatever reason.


so whilst am all for licencing-am also against the bad effects it woud have.

Lawliet

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

What happens currently with dogs, livestock or anything that has licensing in place is that the owner of the animal is liable for any damage caused by that animal, if they are not controlling that animals behaviour then action can be taken on this. Problematic cats can not be dealt with this way which often leads to the person that has the problem dealing with the problem in their own way. Would you be happy enough for someone to do this if your cat was causing someone a problem? What would you do if a neighbour knocked on your door, told you their child was allergic to cats and asked you to ensure your pet stays off their property?

You're still over looking my main point, if my cats were causing problems there's actually nothing I could do to control their behaviour; I live on a large farm that provides no physical way of stopping cats from wandering. Over the years our place has become the unofficial rescue centre for any stray or abandoned cats, most are mistrustful of humans and go wild if enclosed. They're all neutered, regularly wormed and the sick/ injured ones get taken to the vet, but beyond looking out for their health and welfare I have no control over them, nor am I creative enough to think of anyway of restricting their movements that wouldn't be cruel. The license wouldn't change this, it seems to me it would just prompt more healthy cats to be put down, which helps nothing; their territory would just be taken over by another cat, probably one that's feral and carrying diseases. This is why animal welfare organisations prefer the trap neuter return programs I mentioned earlier; it's better to have a 'clean' cat controlling an area than a diseased one.

Basically cats can't be trained like dogs, they can't be restricted like dogs and livestock, licensing them like dogs and livestock is going to create problems. My main worry is that these problems would cause owners to mistreat their cats by keeping them enclosed 24 hours a day, abandoning them, or just putting them down to avoid potential costs, not necessary because they're cruel or bad owners, but simply because they've given up after failing to force a cat to behave like a dog.
The thing is cats breed like rabbits, and when there's so many wild cats, so few places for them in shelters and not nearly enough funding to catch, neuter and vaccinate them, introducing something that could result in healthy cats being put down is just not something I could support.

Cherry Blossom

I live on a large farm and we don't have any feral cats, maybe that's because it's the territory of my neighbours pet cats though. I understand where you are coming from now though as I thought you were talking about pet cats. My own cat is securely confined to the house and gets outside time in the dog run at the minute. If he ever does display a wish to go outside the garden will be cat proofed, although so far he doesn't seem to have any desire to be outside at all.

My point is that if you tell someone there is nothing you can do to control their behaviour they will control it themselves. If cats are causing a nuisance, under the current laws the person who they are being a nuisance to has the right to control them in pretty much any way they see fit. I like to feed the birds and the neighbours know their cats like to catch them so they put bells on their cats collars, they are also fed so are not too much of a problem to the birds (they do catch some). If a feral cat turned up and started decimating 'my' birds I'd have to do something about it - this 'something' would probably mean trapping it, neutering it, confining it and attempting to tame it. This is not the 'something' most people would do in these circumstances. Cat's are no more a native species to Ireland than mink are, feral cats only exist because someone put them in that situation. There was an older lady who used to live around here who fed strays - there hasn't been a stray cat problem since she passed on, I don't know if the cats moved on somewhere else or what became of them but there aren't any now.

Mo60

I would imagine if Ireland were to be, possibly, the first country to licence cats there would be more of a problem with feral cats as some owners would abandon animals rather than pay for a licence.

I still cannot see how licencing would be managed by the authorities, perhaps someone could explain how they think it would work.

Cherry Blossom

Mo60 wrote: »

I still cannot see how licencing would be managed by the authorities, perhaps someone could explain how they think it would work.

The main thing it would provide would be that pounds will accept cats, if you have a problem with a cat you catch it and take it to the pound where it would be scanned for a chip and do it's 5 days - the same as you would with a stray dog. Authorities around here do sod all about stray dogs other than provide a pound to put them in.

Mo60

The pounds are full to the brim with dogs so where would all the cats go?

I have a great vision of wardens attempting to round up hundreds of cats.
The theory of a cat licence is great, but if it was workable and cost effective I am sure it would have been put in place by now.

Cherry Blossom

Mo60 wrote: »

The pounds are full to the brim with dogs so where would all the cats go?

I have a great vision of wardens attempting to round up hundreds of cats.

It's rescues that are full to the brim with dogs not pounds, pounds have to take every dog that comes in to them, they don't stay there indefinitely, they do 5 days and that's it if there is no space to keep them longer. Obviously they might have to make changes to their facility to accommodate cats as I imagine keeping cats and dogs too close to each other would be unacceptable. Shouldn't be a problem for my local council as they are always in a mad rush at the end of the year to get all the money spent that's been allocated to them.

I've yet to see a warden attempting to round up anything, not that it's that hard you just leave out a cat trap with food in it and then come back for it.

Shanao

Lawliet wrote: »

YMy main worry is that these problems would cause owners to mistreat their cats by keeping them enclosed 24 hours a day.

Ah, sorry, maybe I've misunderstood you, but are you calling people like me cruel for keeping my cats indoors? So by keeping them in so that they dont get killed on the road, killed by dogs, thrown about by kids/teenagers, kill small dogs/other cats/birds/wildlife (I have a huge maine coon and there have been incidents where they have killed small dogs), mess other peoples gardens, climb in the neighbours windows etc means I am mistreating my cats?

MrPirate

Absolutely not. And if one was introduced, like hell would I pay it.

Shanao wrote: »

Ah, sorry, maybe I've misunderstood you, but are you calling people like me cruel for keeping my cats indoors? So by keeping them in so that they dont get killed on the road, killed by dogs, thrown about by kids/teenagers, kill small dogs/other cats/birds/wildlife (I have a huge maine coon and there have been incidents where they have killed small dogs), mess other peoples gardens, climb in the neighbours windows etc means I am mistreating my cats?

I think what he's trying to say is keep them enclosed in small spaces rather than have them indoors. Our Norwegian Forests and our Maine Coon are indoor cats too. Largely as a reassurance to us that they won't end up on the road (we live on a busy main road in the country), but also because they just don't seem to have much interest with going outside! Our Maine Coon is actually terrified to leave the house other than braving the windowsill!

The Sweeper

The 'I live on a farm...' argument actually melts my head when it comes to the 'indoor/outdoor' cat argument.

As far as I'm concerned, farm cats are like sheep dogs. These are animals that are not family pets - they are working animals. Subsequently all bets are off on their usual domestic care. As working animals, they should be fed, watered, neutered where appropriate, wormed, flea treated and taken to the vet when they're sick, but often they sleep in outdoor accommodation, never see the inside of the house and generally live to a different set of rules than pet cats.

Farm cats keep down the influx of rodents you get attacking feed stores on a farm. Pet cats don't need to do that. Farm cats should be neutered. So should pet cats. Farm cats generally don't roam, because most farms - unless they're hobby farmers - exceed the acreage that would normally form a pet cat's roaming ground, so the farm cats live in the barn or stables, control the pests in the feed stores, might rock up for a scritch in the morning if someone's milking or mucking out, and the rest of the time they do their job.

It is a total and complete indulgence to allow a pet cat to roam, ****e in the neighbour's yard, razz up their dogs, and do all of the other things that suburban pet cats do because their owners just can't get their heads into the space where they shouldn't allow their cats to roam.

There's a whole different set of 'best practice' goals for working cats like farm or stable cats, but suburban pet owners appear to think those working cat goals apply to pet cats on a suburban block of 1/4 acre or less (far less in the case of a housing estate). Hence you get suburban pet owners going 'oh I can't keep him in' (yes you can), or 'I can't stop him roaming' (yes you can) or 'sure tiz natural' (being laminated across the road by a car is a quite unnatural end).

Should pet cats be licenced? Yes they should. How do you offer a distinction between a pet and a working cat? Try starting with the size of the land it lives on - works in other countries.

Mo60

I see we are back the usual rant about about cats roaming, with the 'experts' voiceing their usual opinions. Letting your cat out is a matter of choice.

I cannot see licencing cats in Ireland would make any difference to the current situation. In fact, I think it would make it worse. Here, some peoples' complete disregard for animals would just make them abandon their cat rather than pay for a licence.

The Sweeper

Mo60 wrote: »

I see we are back the usual rant about about cats roaming, with the 'experts' voiceing their usual opinions. Letting your cat out is a matter of choice.

So is letting your dog roam. So is beating your kid. So is wearing your seatbelt. They're all choices. Except in the face of evidence most people don't choose to let their dog roam, beat their kids or leave their seatbelt unbuckled, because choosing those options is proven time and again to have a potentially very bad ending.